I can’t find it in the rule book that describes the call from last night, can anyone point this out?
Horse Collar Rule
- Thread starter biggreydogs
- Start date
Also,
* What's a catch?
* What's targeting?
* When can the ruling on the field be overturned and by exactly whom?
Horse Collar Tackle—ARTICLE 15
Approved Ruling 9-1-15
I. As ball carrier A20 races down field near the sideline, defender B56 grabs him from behind by the back of the jersey at the collar or by the collar of his shoulder pad. B56 continues with this contact for several yards but A20 does not go to the ground until tackled by another defender. RULING: Legal play. B56 did not foul because he did not immediately pull A20 down.
Approved Ruling 9-1-15
I. As ball carrier A20 races down field near the sideline, defender B56 grabs him from behind by the back of the jersey at the collar or by the collar of his shoulder pad. B56 continues with this contact for several yards but A20 does not go to the ground until tackled by another defender. RULING: Legal play. B56 did not foul because he did not immediately pull A20 down.
Apparently if drag him forward it is not a penalty which is horseshit
interesting. but the runner still was affected by the grab around the neck.
maybe they need to tweak the rule because the goal should be player safety and I don't think grabbing behind the player's neck is exactly safe (whip lash or not).
Thoughts?
Kind of an odd rule.
I guess my only problem is it introduces even more subjectivity into officiating. Sargeant wasn't yanked down but was slowed down quite abruptly. A little stronger yank and the correct call would be quite debatable it seems.
I guess my only problem is it introduces even more subjectivity into officiating. Sargeant wasn't yanked down but was slowed down quite abruptly. A little stronger yank and the correct call would be quite debatable it seems.
i think the original intent of the horse collar was to prevent neck, back, and leg injuries that might result when violently, suddenly being pulled backwards.
I would like to see the horse collar evolve into what the face mask rule has become. Grab it, no matter the direction you force the player? 15 yd penalty.
That should already be the rule. How many kids have been punished that had no intention of "targeting", or malice of any kind? The answer is plenty because it's a fast game and shit happens that you have no control over. Wrong place at wrong time. You thought they were going to zig and instead they zagged and your job is to get them to the ground with the least amount of yardage allowed.
Face mask and horse collars are no different. Doesn't have to be any intent, just has to happen. They want these things to be in the minds of every player at all times because of Safety. Punish them all the same, and review for intentional malice, just like flagrant 1 or 2 in Basketball. Still a judgement, but every now and again it's pretty clear.
Yeah, I didn't mean the rule or concept itself was odd, just that there exists some leeway.
I would be fine if every instance was flagged the same way.
I’ve seen it called on every solo tackle when the fingers went inside the pad. Front back and side. I’ve seen it missed but never applied in the manner described in this game.
“Roy Williams Rule”
Williams was well known for horse-collaring players while playing at Oklahoma, and continued to use the tackle after moving to the NFL in 2002.
The horse-collar tackle rose to infamy during the 2004 NFL season, in which it was implicated in six major injuries, four of which were caused by Williams, including two in one game. The injuries that season included broken legs for Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens, Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, Carolina Panthers wide receiver Steve Smith Sr., Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith, and Tennessee Titans wide out Tyrone Calico. On May 23, 2005, NFL owners voted 27–5 to ban the tackle, with the Dallas Cowboys, Detroit Lions, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, and San Francisco 49ers voting against.[1] The first year of the ban, only two penalties were called by referees for the horse-collar tackle. Owners voted 25–7 in 2006 to expand the rule to include tackles by the back of the jersey in addition to tackles by the shoulder pads.
Williams was well known for horse-collaring players while playing at Oklahoma, and continued to use the tackle after moving to the NFL in 2002.
The horse-collar tackle rose to infamy during the 2004 NFL season, in which it was implicated in six major injuries, four of which were caused by Williams, including two in one game. The injuries that season included broken legs for Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens, Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, Carolina Panthers wide receiver Steve Smith Sr., Baltimore Ravens running back Musa Smith, and Tennessee Titans wide out Tyrone Calico. On May 23, 2005, NFL owners voted 27–5 to ban the tackle, with the Dallas Cowboys, Detroit Lions, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, and San Francisco 49ers voting against.[1] The first year of the ban, only two penalties were called by referees for the horse-collar tackle. Owners voted 25–7 in 2006 to expand the rule to include tackles by the back of the jersey in addition to tackles by the shoulder pads.
This. The rule was put into place because of several severe leg breaks to players who were abrubtly pulled backwards away from their momentum, causing extra stress on bones and joints. Anyone who has seen some of these incidents during a game can understand the difference from what happened to Sarge on Saturday. That was one of the few calls I had no problem with.
I know in HS ball, if you pull them forward by the horse collar, it’s legal. Sounds like it is in college as well.
