How many more years of this?

CookyMonster

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Nov 27, 2018
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I've finally found that place as well. I follow and watch most of the games but I don't really care much if they lose now. Might irk me some (like how the Rutgers game ended with that BS touch foul that ended the game) but I'm over it pretty quickly, if I care at all.

I used to live and die by the outcome of the games, like you. No more.

I also remember being 12.
 
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SchwartzUndGold

Scout Team
Nov 20, 2019
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I think you have to look at the landscape of college basketball and make judgements in that context. Would Fran and UI ever cheat like KS, AZ, etc? Iowa is not Harvard, but it's not Louisville, fortunately. You got to find recruits that have a reasonable chance of making it through the classroom. Fran does get Iowa HS talent, but it is rarely above 3 star level. It's difficult to find higher talent to go with it.

Fran's a development style coach. With the transfer portal out there keeping players happy is in your interest. If you're a commodity coach then you don't care. The portal is your life preserver.

The Alford hire drug the program down and Lickliter created a chasm. Getting to mediocre was accomplished, but I can't see much more given the context of the B1G and college basketball in general
 

iahawks10

HR Legend
Nov 3, 2001
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What are players like Riley Till doing on a B12 team?

I didn’t know Till was ever on a Big XII team?

Riley Till was on the Iowa team for FM doing exactly what Jason Smith was doing on the Iowa team for Dr Tom. A walk on forced into limited action.

A better question would be what was Greg Helmers and Marcelo Gomes doing on scholarship for a B1G team. I’m sure several posters could point out a few of Fran’s guys that didn’t deserve a scholarship. I know we all could point out multiple Lickliter’s guys and maybe even several of Alford’s guys.

The point being, Riley Till being a walk on is near the bottom of my concerns, that’s for sure.
 
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mooresville hawk

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Feb 4, 2004
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but somehow George couldn't. Don't think Fran would either.
George was definitely a better recruiter than coach. His teams made the tournament 6 times in 22 years. Fran’s teams have made the tournament 10 times in 26 years. Fran has spent 14 of those years at smaller programs in one bid conferences (Lehigh, UNC Greensboro and Siena) though, while George’s 22 years were all at larger programs (Washington State, Iowa and USC).
 
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iahawks10

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George also had recruiting connections to someone who would later be the center of a large recruiting, money laundering, and gambling scandal. A scandal that involved the B1G, NCAA, FBI, DOJ, and the IRS. One that would cost Steve Fisher his job, put Michigan on probation and cost them a B1G championship and a couple Final Fours.

I believe these behaviors and connections are the complete opposite of what Fran stands for.
 

Randall Stanhope

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Gold Member
Sep 1, 2003
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Soooo... you expect a team with a first team All-American 3 years in a row* to achieve better team results than this?

*(Luka, Luka, Keegan.)

**(Maybe Keegan won't be 1st team. He will be 2nd team at worst. I think.)
 

Bee93

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Sep 11, 2019
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That 86-87 team was loaded with talent. However, they almost didn’t make it out if the R32 against UTEP. They trailed by like 7 or 8 with under 10 to go. Not to mention escaping In the Sweet Sixteen against OU.

I know folks around here just love the stoic good Dr. but he was as average as they come. His teams hustled and rebounded well but oftentimes the press he employed lead to layup drills for the other team.

It would be interesting to go back and see the Kenpom numbers for those teams. I don’t think you’d find the D stats to be very appealing. Much like what we are seeing now.
If Dr Tom was average, Fran needed to be fired years ago. Over 100 more wins with similar loss numbers to Fran. 18-11 in NCAA tournament, compared to 6-9. Not really that close IMHO.
 

moondog24

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Oct 31, 2009
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Iowa has had 3 top tier coaches in their basketball history - Bucky O'Connor, Ralph Miller and Lute. Bucky met an untimely death but the other two, had they remained at Iowa would have won several Big Ten Championships and maybe even a National Championship. Both know how to recruit to Iowa, develop players and were innovative X and O coaches. BTW both Miller and Olson took over programs that were struggling (OSU with 4 straight losing seasons and Arizona off a 4-24 disaster) and within one season built winners and never suffered a losing season again.
 
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iahawks10

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If Dr Tom was average, Fran needed to be fired years ago. Over 100 more wins with similar loss numbers to Fran. 18-11 in NCAA tournament, compared to 6-9. Not really that close IMHO.

Dr Tom has coached 137 more games than Fran has too. Dr Tom has coached almost twice as many games with a P5/P6 team than Fran as well. (673 vs 388)

Dr Tom at Iowa 13 years: 269-140 (29% of his wins were in his first three years)

Fran at Iowa 11.5 years: 230-158 (32% of his losses were in his first three years after taking over for the worst coach in Iowa history)
 
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jonesy5960

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Sep 6, 2012
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Iowa has had 3 top tier coaches in their basketball history - Bucky O'Connor, Ralph Miller and Lute. Bucky met an untimely death but the other two, had they remained at Iowa would have won several Big Ten Championships and maybe even a National Championship. Both know how to recruit to Iowa, develop players and were innovative X and O coaches. BTW both Miller and Olson took over programs that were struggling (OSU with 4 straight losing seasons and Arizona off a 4-24 disaster) and within one season built winners and never suffered a losing season again.
Lute had the 1980 national championship within his grasp until Ronnie went down. He surely would have competed for more just as he did for many years at Arizona.
 
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Bee93

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Dr Tom has coached 137 more games than Fran has too. Dr Tom has coached almost twice as many games with a P5/P6 team than Fran as well. (673 vs 388)

Dr Tom at Iowa 13 years: 269-140 (29% of his wins were in his first three years)

Fran at Iowa 11.5 years: 230-158 (32% of his losses were in his first three years after taking over for the worst coach in Iowa history)
In other words, Fran should’ve stayed coaching in the MAAC.
 
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83Hawk

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Sep 17, 2002
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I think you have to look at the landscape of college basketball and make judgements in that context. Would Fran and UI ever cheat like KS, AZ, etc? Iowa is not Harvard, but it's not Louisville, fortunately. You got to find recruits that have a reasonable chance of making it through the classroom. Fran does get Iowa HS talent, but it is rarely above 3 star level. It's difficult to find higher talent to go with it.

Fran's a development style coach. With the transfer portal out there keeping players happy is in your interest. If you're a commodity coach then you don't care. The portal is your life preserver.

The Alford hire drug the program down and Lickliter created a chasm. Getting to mediocre was accomplished, but I can't see much more given the context of the B1G and college basketball in general
Yep, just little ol’ Iowa. Can‘t recruit here, can’t get a good coach. Mediocrity is the best we can ever hope for. Remember what happened when we ran Dr. Tom out of town. Etc. etc. etc. Blah blah blah.
 
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iahawks10

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In other words, Fran should’ve stayed coaching in the MAAC.

Why? By your gorilla logic Fran has over 100 more wins with a B1G team than a MAAC team. I think he’s doing fine where he’s at.
 
Sep 8, 2018
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If Dr Tom was average, Fran needed to be fired years ago. Over 100 more wins with similar loss numbers to Fran. 18-11 in NCAA tournament, compared to 6-9. Not really that close IMHO.

You’re not taking into consideration the absolute train wreck Fran inherited while Dr Tom walked into a dream situation. Throw out the first 3 years for both and then get back with me.
 

NI hawk

HR Heisman
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Jul 23, 2001
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Tom Davis first 3 years conference games (Raveling Recruits)
14-4 3rd Elite 8
12-6 sweet 16
10-8 NCAA 2nd round
Total Conf. 36-18

Fran McCaffery first 3 years conference games ( Lickliter mess)
4-14 Nothing
8-10 NIT 2nd round
10-8 NIT runner-up
Total Conf. 22-32

Tom Davis Next 8 years
4-14 Nothing
9-9 NCAA 2nd round
10-8 NCAA 2nd round
11-7 NCAA 2nd round
5-13 Nothing
9-9 NIT Quarterfinal
12-6 NCAA 2nd round
12-6 NCAA 2nd round
Total Conf. 72-72

Fran McCaffery Next 8 years
9-9 NCAA First Four
12-6 NCAA 2nd round
12-6 NCAA 2nd round
10-8 NIT 2nd round
4-14 Nothing
10-10 NCAA 2nd round
11-9 NCAA Cancelled
14-6 NCAA 2nd round
Total Conf. 82-68

Davis was 25-47 in Conference play his four years at Stanford
Davis was 25-47 in Conference play his four years at Drake.
 
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