How many takedowns did Iowa have?
- Thread starter Kuch96
- Start date
You know I get it, but ultimately not exactly an apples to apples comparison as they say.
How many NF points did PSU have?
What about the fact that Iowa would have won the dual on criteria due to total match points scored, had it come to that?
What about the fact that Iowa would have won the dual on criteria due to total match points scored, had it come to that?
So you’re saying the once great offensive powerhouse is now the great defensive powerhouse? Agreed. Psu has a couple of dean heil’s. Not impressed at all with your squad and this is supposedly the best ever for psu? Nope!
Why is that? Besides the 5 matches where they had no TD’s, PSU had 3 other matches where they had only 1. It’s not like they were an offensive juggernaut themselves. Iowa had more match points.
Had PSU not won by nine points but instead the two teams tied, Iowa would have won on criteria?
Brilliant.
Yea, I think you're missing the point, but since this troll thread just needs to die, let's just call a stalemate and end it. If either team is impressed with their takedown count, well not much else to say.
Each team had a match where a national champion took on a backup. PSU racked up a bunch of TD’s using catch and release, Iowa racked up a lot of NF by tech falling without ever letting the guy up.
If you want to fairly compare team results in NF and TD, you need to remove those two matches.
Going into the final match, if Cass got the pin, Iowa would have won the meet on criteria due to total match points scored. Obviously it didn't come down to that, but shows that Iowa scored more points than PSU during the 8 other non-133 bouts (since those points wouldn't have counted towards the criteria)
sounds like a new philosophy by the hawk coaching staff…..how to “attempt” to win without having to take the opponent down.
This. Dead thread move on. It’s nothing but tit for tat.
…after being put on his back by a career backup without a D1 win. A tighter lock may have caused Iowa hospitals to be overrun with cardiac patients.
Fun times!
A good thing matches are not won based on things people almost do. The hypotheticals would be endless.
Exactly — remove the bookend outliers, and you are left with a lot of close, low-scoring matches.
Except at 133. So PSU wins the offense battle 1-0 with the other 7 weights being grinders. Not a lot to crow about in this dual for either side.
As a PSU fan, this is not even close to their best team ever (and certainly not their most entertaining). I was utterly unimpressed with their generally defensive wrestling style between 141 and 174. If that is representative of the near future of PSU wrestling, I may have to turn off the tv.
I think it was exactly the same amount of confirmed rapists in penn states football program 🤷♂️
Fair. I wasn’t impressed by Iowa’s performance either. For your squad, rby, brooks and kerk did their job or better. We had Spencer, woods, murin and pk who were at least acceptable I guess. The rest on both teams were boring and/or scared. Iowa could’ve been blown out but if it was pure scrapping I would’ve enjoyed it more. A lot of gaming going on and not a lot of wrestling. Bad for the sport.
This. Lee could've taken his guy down and released as many times as he wanted. It's not Iowa's fault Brooks could only get one tilt on our backup 165 pounder.
Suriano had already beat both NCAA finalists before his injury. He would have been the 6th national champion on the that one team. I doubt that team will be equaled or supassed anytime soon.
He lost that year to your new favorite Gilman 😂
so had gilman. you can't just pencil a true freshman in as a champ like that.
You don't have to get so defensive, the point being that team was stacked.
So was the 97 hawks, who f*cling cares
How many of those were by the national champ who wrestled a backup who was wrestling up two weights. Definitely very impressive for a national champ to rack up takedowns against a backup who is wrestling up two weights. If I was a PSU fan I would be sticking my chest out in pride for that.
Well, maybe Tom should’ve put someone out there that was more worthy in your eyes.
And in '86, Alger majored the National Champ a few weeks prior to the NCAAs, and our #2 ranked 118 pounder (Matt Egeland) didn't wrestle at the Big Ten (it actually was the Big 10 then) tournament, so by your logic (what if) we should have had six Champs and 8 Finalists but settled for 5 Champs and 6 Finalists. We also had 5 Champs and 6 Finalists in '97, 6 Finalists in '91, 5 Finalists in '79, '81' '82, '83, '84, and 2010, 4 Finalists in '75, '76, '87, '92, '93 and 2001. PSU isn't really breaking new ground with their dominance.
Oh, and by the way, I blame the Hughes brothers for popularizing this defensive BS back in the '90s. Wrestling was generally fun to watch (with a few exceptions) in the '80s and early '90s. Not so much anymore.
Neither team should be happy with what we watched on Friday night. That was bad for wrestling. It's hard enough getting new fans into the sport.
Few casuals will just turn on 1 vs 2 on the Big Ten network anyway. Wrestling has a solid fan base but it's a niche sport and isn't going to see massive growth
The real issue I have now is how disconnected many fans are from recognizing high level wrestling. Make no mistake, that WAS some of the best wrestling you will see at the DI level. The handfighting and positioning is the best you will see in DI. Even the riding is about the best you will see at returning the wrestler to the mat and breaking them down. But, it is ridiculously hard to keep a DI guy on his belly, let alone work him into nearfall positions. All of that is why many matches were/are low scoring.
I hate to use the NBA as an analogy, but I think it is spot on in this case. Is it really more entertaining to watch now that it is so high scoring? It is ONLY that way because they basically play NO defense. Myself, I actually only really liked it back when the "Bad Boys" of Detroit mugged everyone who came into the paint. They were able to beat Magic, Bird and Jordan because of that tough, maybe even ugly style.
With that said, I DO NOT want to sacrifice positioning for scoring. I want the highest level of wrestling possible. I don't care if the score ends up 2-1. As long as I can tell the wrestlers are working the entire time, I appreciate everything they did throughout the match. Because, again, what many of you perceive as stalling or not working is NOT what is happening. Most of the time, they are working their asses off.
Another analogy that really fits is SOCCER. Most of us Americans don't care for it because so many games are 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 or even 0-0. But, most of the rest of the World loves it because they appreciate all the little things the teams do to move the ball around, while running their asses off for nearly 2 hours with very few breaks...
I hate to use the NBA as an analogy, but I think it is spot on in this case. Is it really more entertaining to watch now that it is so high scoring? It is ONLY that way because they basically play NO defense. Myself, I actually only really liked it back when the "Bad Boys" of Detroit mugged everyone who came into the paint. They were able to beat Magic, Bird and Jordan because of that tough, maybe even ugly style.
With that said, I DO NOT want to sacrifice positioning for scoring. I want the highest level of wrestling possible. I don't care if the score ends up 2-1. As long as I can tell the wrestlers are working the entire time, I appreciate everything they did throughout the match. Because, again, what many of you perceive as stalling or not working is NOT what is happening. Most of the time, they are working their asses off.
Another analogy that really fits is SOCCER. Most of us Americans don't care for it because so many games are 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 or even 0-0. But, most of the rest of the World loves it because they appreciate all the little things the teams do to move the ball around, while running their asses off for nearly 2 hours with very few breaks...
I agree with basically everything you said above but something has to be done about mat wrestling period. If we allow a top guy, I DGAF if it is Iowa or someone else, to spiral ride, double thy pry, hook the ankle, or anything else and never get off parallel then I believe people will just say F it and lose interest. If that is the type of wrestling we want fine but lets get rid of riding time altogether, you have to win by securing a point. The whole world laughs at us because we give points for it. If this is our product I am all in on freestyle period and I never thought I would say that.
Control has always been the key component of folkstyle. It is really the only reason I prefer it over free. If a guy can take you down, but can’t hold you down, I have a hard time that deciding the winner, without mat wrestling being a factor.
On top of that, there is NOTHING more demoralizing in wrestling then being ridden an entire period, let alone multiple. I love a sport that rewards that because, at the DI level, it is ridiculously hard to do.
Now, with that said, I posted the most recent PSA about mat wrestling because I saw this coming. I would prefer a rule set that mandates the top guy be more aggressive, but I am no surprised there are people at the top that still believe the onus falls on the bottom guy.
Time will tell if the onus on the bottom guy pushes him harder to find more ways to escape…
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