How Much Will You Pay for Health Care Under Medicare for All?

[naturalmwa]

It seems to me that the Medicare for all plans really aren’t that at all. They are really single payer plans like they have in the UK or Canada where people don’t pay anything out of pocket. No monthly premiums, no deductibles, no co pays, nothing. Everything gets covered by taxes. Everyone is automatically covered for everything.

The public opinions or “Medicare for those who want it” plans are closer to actual Medicare for anyone plans in that people have to sign up, pay some monthly fees and pay some part of the costs when they get treatment.

 

[khael-hawk]

I'm less a fan of "free Medicare for all" than "Medicare buy-in", where people have some incentive to lower their overall healthcare costs.

Absent some element of personal responsibility and price-based incentives to keep your own costs low, free healthcare for all isn't a good formula IMO.

Best post I've ever seen from Joe. I'll have a coke this time.

 

[Chewback]

If we do it like other countries, you walk out of the doctors office paying ZERO out of pocket. I'm convinced that less will come out of my paycheck, when I don't have to pay health insurance, but my taxes go up to help pay for M for All. The insurance companies, big pharma, and the Republicans want you to think differently.

We're Muricans. We don't pay for other people to have stuff. Communists do that.

 

[Joes Place]

Best post I've ever seen from Joe. I'll have a coke this time.

I've stated that point many times here, regarding ACA fixes/revisions.
I have a similar position on "free college".

I'm not in line with the hard-left Dems on this, and it's one of the bigger issues I have with Warren and Biden (and Sanders).

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

So based on my previous post I found this, it's a a not for profit (page 17 of the pdf or labeled page 15 of the document it details that they are not for profit.) that controls I think 5 hosptials.

https://hscrc.state.md.us/Documents...ial/Audited/fy-2018/HC-Trinity-AFS-FY2018.PDF

The problem is what I suspected. It doesn't break down expenses enough to honestly tell where you could save some money.

Employee wages and benefits are reported but it doesn't break it down by employee type, so they are all under there.

There is one line item noted as "Medical claims" where they spent 406 million dollars in 2018. I'm not sure what this line item is though. I ran a search and I could find no other reference to it in the report. So it's hard for me to tell exactly what that means.

It would be intersting if I could see a breakdown of employee wages and benefits based on what they do. I mean a hospital has doctors and nurses, janitorial staff, and food service staff that they pay. But how much does billing run them?

 

[khael-hawk]

I'm not in line with the hard-left Dems on this, and it's one of the bigger issues I have with Warren and Biden (and Sanders).

And everyone else who crawls out on the next democrat stage...

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

On a related search I did find this website.

https://revcycleintelligence.com/news/insurance-and-medical-billing-costs-for-providers-reaches-282b

Claims that 14% of expenses in clinics goes to medical billing, 8.7% of expenses in hospitals, and 8.4% of expenses for private insurance.

Also had this graph

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

If you are willing to share, I'd be interested in knowing who your Advantage provider is, and how well that's working for you.

No problem. It's UCare and it's working very well for me. This particular plan also offered a limited dental plan. I'm pretty satisfied so far.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

No problem. It's UCare and it's working very well for me. This particular plan also offered a limited dental plan. I'm pretty satisfied so far.

Thanks. Apparently I'd have to move to Minnesota.

 

[Finance85]

If we do it like other countries, you walk out of the doctors office paying ZERO out of pocket. I'm convinced that less will come out of my paycheck, when I don't have to pay health insurance, but my taxes go up to help pay for M for All. The insurance companies, big pharma, and the Republicans want you to think differently.

What other countries?

 

[Tom Paris]

What other countries?

UK for one. Canada for another.

 

[haw-key]

Once it's phased in - 4 years for Bernie or Lizzie, 10 for Kamala - how much will you pay?

Anybody know?

I'm on Medicare. I pay over $4000 a year for Part B, Part D and a supplemental. And then there are the deductibles and copays.

Would I still pay those things? Or would I suddenly be $4000 a year richer?

And, yes, I understand that I might pay part of that back in taxes, but still....

I'm assuming some of those costs will go away, but maybe not all. But is that true?

And what about those who are currently buying regular insurance? Or those with no insurance? Will all their costs go away, most, or just some?

We hear a bunch of bitching from well-off folks and some union types saying they don't want to give up their Cadillac plans. But I'm pretty sure they represent a tiny minority of Americans. And I know that Bernie has talked about grandfathering in some of the union-negotiated benefits. Seems to me we should be focusing more on the rest of us.

ive always imagined you were an old crotchety sob. Now I know so.

Some facts for you......Medicare is a welfare program. Pure and simple. Now it is a social compact that we as a society has decided us worth it. Because we want to take care of those that can’t work and have earned that right thru a lifetime of work.

Medicare premiums cover 15% of the cost of delivering care. The average science in 2018 per beneficiary is approx 10,000 nationwide. You seem to pay more than average. Presuming that’s due to supplements you have.

We simply cannot convert a welfare program to a universal benefit magically. There are not enough sources of revenue. Even some dems acknowledge that the last few days.

Now the cost to provide care to younger patients will not be 10k admittedly. But it would likely be more than the cost of premiums if we are basing it on the rates beneficiaries currently pay.

The first thing for you is to admit that you love your plan mainly because the rest of us are paying for you. Would you love it if you were paying 833/month?

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

Thanks. Apparently I'd have to move to Minnesota.

There's always a catch...

 

[IAHawk2011]

The unfairness and extra responsibility of today's college costs have little to do with the right. Making college more affordable is going to cut into liberal institutions, not conservative ones. These "free college" proposals likely will do nothing to reduce the costs of education, but will just pass the responsibility to the taxpayers. There has to be personal responsibility or people will continue to make poor decisions. You shouldn't be willing to spend $100k+ to get a degree in something that provides no real career opportunities. If students continue to make those types of decisions, colleges will keep taking as much of their money as they can. Two of my three children are through college or just finishing up. They both chose degrees with great employment prospects and they both worked multiple jobs through college to keep from needing student loans. With debt avoidance as a motivating factor, they made great decisions. If it was all "free" to them, I doubt that they would have.

Not to highjack the thread, but even if someone does choose a path with a high paying profession, there is no reason that they should be saddled with obscene levels of student loans. I’m not even getting into the “free college” discussion- the fact that someone chooses to go to law school or medical school should not automatically subject them to hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans.

 

[naturalmwa]

I've stated that point many times here, regarding ACA fixes/revisions.
I have a similar position on "free college".

I'm not in line with the hard-left Dems on this, and it's one of the bigger issues I have with Warren and Biden (and Sanders).

Unless there has been a recent change, Biden doesn't line up with Warren and Sanders on this issue. He's for keeping the ACA and adding a public option which is a medicare buy in plan.

 

[naturalmwa]

And everyone else who crawls out on the next democrat stage...

 

[MplsHawk]

Not to highjack the thread, but even if someone does choose a path with a high paying profession, there is no reason that they should be saddled with obscene levels of student loans. I’m not even getting into the “free college” discussion- the fact that someone chooses to go to law school or medical school should not automatically subject them to hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans.

Agreed, the costs are ridiculously high. We should be focused on the causes of that. However, that still doesn't mean that the taxpayer should be on the hook for the costs. People need to make personal decisions about whether the costs are worth it.

I've tried to talk to my oldest son about law school and the fact that I believe it would be a great pay off over the long run for him given his background (law school is not a great payoff for many though). He on the other hand has analyzed it and recognizes that he already makes a great living as a software engineer and doesn't think it will be worth the cost and time commitment. People deciding on whether to incur the costs of education need to do exactly what he is doing and put thought into it and then live with their choices.

 

[joelbc1]

It seems to me that the Medicare for all plans really aren’t that at all. They are really single payer plans like they have in the UK or Canada where people don’t pay anything out of pocket. No monthly premiums, no deductibles, no co pays, nothing. Everything gets covered by taxes. Everyone is automatically covered for everything.

The public opinions or “Medicare for those who want it” plans are closer to actual Medicare for anyone plans in that people have to sign up, pay some monthly fees and pay some part of the costs when they get treatment.

My current premiums (MediCare, supplemental, RX and my bride’s premiums) run us a little over $10k annually....so if the government raises my taxes that much, I would break even....in fact, we improve ourselves as no deductibles or co-pays would be needed.

 

[camickle]

The problem with this discussion for Republicans is that it's not just a financial discussion. It's a jealousy issue.

Have a friend at work who is moderately conservative. His objection to free college for example ultimately isn't the cost. His objection is that it's no fair because he (And I'm pretty sure he means mostly his parents.) had to paid for college and it's not fair that other people could go there for free when he couldn't.

One of the things you are going to have to get past is a lot of people are going to look at it like they spent their entire lives paying for this exclusive benefit they get when they hit retirement age only for the benefit to no longer be made exclusive. And that they will say is unfair.

Is it JUST that, or the fact that they worked really hard to pay for theirs, only to have someone tell him his taxes are now going to double so that he can now pay for everyone else's too?
Take a look at the tax rates of all these amazing nations we who have these great benefits.
NOTHING is FREE, and Everything is a trade off.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Is it JUST that, or the fact that they worked really hard to pay for theirs, only to have someone tell him his taxes are now going to double so that he can now pay for everyone else's too?
Take a look at the tax rates of all these amazing nations we who have these great benefits.
NOTHING is FREE, and Everything is a trade off.

It's hard to compare tax rates directly because different countries use different methods to collect revenues. So the best apples to apples comparison I can see is % of GDP.

US collects 27.1% of GDP for government revenue. Canada collects 31.7% but you get free to the patient healthcare and cheaper universities.

Sign me up.

 

[Run&Blade]

US collects 27.1% of GDP for government revenue. Canada collects 31.7% but you get free to the patient healthcare and cheaper universities.

Sign me up.

Canada doesn’t support the worlds largest military and act like police to most of the planet.

I am fine with defense cuts.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Canada doesn’t support the worlds largest military and act like police to most of the planet.

I am fine with defense cuts.

I'm fine with that too. We could cut it in half and still be #1 in defense spending by a rather comfortable margin.

 

[naturalmwa]

My current premiums (MediCare, supplemental, RX and my bride’s premiums) run us a little over $10k annually....so if the government raises my taxes that much, I would break even....in fact, we improve ourselves as no deductibles or co-pays would be needed.

That’s the Bernie argument. It’s the truth for Warren too, but she doesn’t want to admit it.

 

[UNIowaHawk]

My premium is $7,350.82, but with $2,400 in company incentives (for not smoking, not being a lard ass, good cholesterol and blood stuff) it’s essentially $4,950.82 in premiums and a max out of pocket of $10,550.82 for our family.

 

[Repubic]

We're Muricans. We don't pay for other people to have stuff. Communists do that.

Isn't capitalism just a giant orgy of paying people so other people can have stuff? You are paying insurance companies so they and their employees can have stuff, and paying more than we should be.

Being that the US pays twice as much for health care on average when compared to other industrialized countries, insurance companies are siphoning off how much stuff you could be buying yourself by over $4500 a year.

 

[camickle]

It's hard to compare tax rates directly because different countries use different methods to collect revenues. So the best apples to apples comparison I can see is % of GDP.

US collects 27.1% of GDP for government revenue. Canada collects 31.7% but you get free to the patient healthcare and cheaper universities.

Sign me up.

Not so fast my friend.... does that include their national sales tax?
When including the massive national sales tax countries like Denmark,France,Belgium,Austria, and Sweeden are all closer to 45%. The scarier part is how much that has had to grow over the past 2 decades (about 2% every few years)
Add to that they tax even low income earners in most of them and tax top income earners really heavily, but also collect a substantial national sales tax, even on necessities and food, and the true impact on individuals is very burdensome.
Is it really a win for most people if we eliminate your health insurance and student loan debt and replace it with a 10% increase in income tax, 20% increase on corporations (likely meaning higher prices and lower wages for all) and add in a 20% narional sales and services tax to everything you buy?

 

[Herkmeister]

This is Elizabeth Warren's Calculator on how much her health plan will cost you.

https://elizabethwarren.com/calculator/medicare-for-all

 

[MplsHawk]

This is Elizabeth Warren's Calculator on how much her health plan will cost you.

https://elizabethwarren.com/calculator/medicare-for-all

Looks like her calculator just always give an answer of $0 costs.

 

[Herkmeister]

Looks like her calculator just always give an answer of $0 costs.

I didn't see one for college. You probably have to answer a question about your native heritage.

But honestly, can you believe her website has a calculator like that? Just awful.

 

[Joes Place]

Looks like her calculator just always give an answer of $0 costs.

That's just GENIUS!!!!

 

[Herkmeister]

That's just GENIUS!!!!

FREE SHIT!!!!!!!!

American's do love it so.....

 

[Run&Blade]

I answered Warren’s questions. I entered that I pay about $7500 in healthcare, I get it from my employer, and never missed an appointment because of costs.

it says I will bring home $7500 more with her plan. So it is free. Free everything. God bless America.

 

[Joes Place]

I answered Warren’s questions. I entered that I pay about $7500 in healthcare, I get it from my employer, and never missed an appointment because of costs.

it says I will bring home $7500 more with her plan. So it is free. Free everything. God bless America.

'cept the wall.

Mexico's payin' for the wall, since it ain't "free"

 

[BrunoMars420]

This is Elizabeth Warren's Calculator on how much her health plan will cost you.

https://elizabethwarren.com/calculator/medicare-for-all

This calculator is for the low information voter. This should honestly be banned or someone on the next debate should rail her on this.

 

[MplsHawk]

I answered Warren’s questions. I entered that I pay about $7500 in healthcare, I get it from my employer, and never missed an appointment because of costs.

it says I will bring home $7500 more with her plan. So it is free. Free everything. God bless America.

You are getting ripped off. Mine said I would bring home $20,000 more with her plan.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Why do " tens of millions " not have insurance when the ACA was passed 8 years ago. The " Cadillac Tax " was going to tax those with high end plans ( like teachers and university employees ) to subsidize those at the bottom. What happened?

 

[Joes Place]

This calculator is for the low information voter. This should honestly be banned or someone on the next debate should rail her on this.

The next calculator should be to compute your "income tax"

"How much do you earn, before taxes?" $X

"Your new income tax will be:" $X

 

[Run&Blade]

You are getting ripped off. Mine said I would bring home $20,000 more with her plan.

Well, Yang it is for me. He is giving my wife and I $12,000 a year each. Plus I will just pocket the $12,000 a year he is giving my college kid since I pay for his school.

lord, I may retire real early.

 

[MplsHawk]

Why do " tens of millions " not have insurance when the ACA was passed 8 years ago. The " Cadillac Tax " was going to tax those with high end plans ( like teachers and university employees ) to subsidize those at the bottom. What happened?

It wasn't to be implemented until 2018. Now it likely never will be.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...plans-may-be-headed-to-congressional-junkyard

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

It wasn't to be implemented until 2018. Now it likely never will be.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...plans-may-be-headed-to-congressional-junkyard

Yeah, I know. It was like raising taxes on all the Obama voters. Waivers then wrote it off.