ADVERTISEMENT

How Some Would Level the Playing Field: Free Harvard Degrees

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
79,518
62,746
113
Should Harvard be free?

That is the provocative question posed by a slate of candidates running for the Board of Overseers at Harvard, which helps set strategy for the university. They say Harvard makes so much money from its $37.6 billion endowment that it should stop charging tuition to undergraduates.

But they have tied the notion to another, equally provocative question: Does Harvard shortchange Asian-Americans in admissions?

Their argument is that if Harvard were free, more highly qualified students from all backgrounds would apply, and the university would no longer have trouble balancing its class for racial or ethnic diversity — making sure, they say, that Asian-Americans do not lose out.

The slate of five candidates was put together by Ron Unz, a conservative California software entrepreneur who has sponsored ballot initiatives opposing bilingual education. Although the campaign, “Free Harvard, Fair Harvard,” includes one left-leaning member — the consumer advocate Ralph Nader — Mr. Unz and the other three candidates have written or testified extensively against affirmative action, opposing race-based admissions.

Their positions are in lock step with claims in a federal lawsuit accusing the university of discriminating against Asian-Americans in admissions. Harvard has denied the accusations.

Coincidence or not, the plaintiffs in that case are seeking from Harvard exactly what the Unz slate wants: disclosure of data showing how the university’s freshman class is selected each year.

The politically charged data holds the potential to reveal whether Harvard bypasses better-qualified Asian-American candidates in favor of whites, blacks, Hispanics and the children of the wealthy and powerful, the group argues.

“Our focus is entirely on greater transparency in admissions,” Mr. Unz said, “namely urging Harvard to provide much more detailed information on how they select the very small slice of applicants receiving offers of admission, in order to curb the huge potential abuse possible under the entirely opaque system.”

Whatever the political motivations of the slate, Mr. Unz, a Harvard alumnus, and the other members have hit on two increasingly contentious issues in higher education: ballooning college costs and affirmative action.

The expense of college has become a hot topic in the presidential race, with several candidates proposing solutions ranging from government-financed tuition to private investors’ financing of school expenses in exchange for a share of an individual’s future earnings. Lawmakers on Capitol Hill have proposed an idea similar to the one held by Mr. Unz’s slate — that college endowments be tapped to cover tuition.

The United States Supreme Court is considering whether race should be used as a factor in college admissions. As so-called underrepresented minorities — blacks, Hispanics and Native Americans — get a boost at Harvard and many other colleges, some Asian-Americans are among those who say they are not treated fairly.

If Harvard abolishes tuition for undergrads, Mr. Nader said, “it will ricochet across the Ivy League.”

Maybe. Officials at Harvard suggested that even if the slate were to win, the idea is a nonstarter, pointing out that the endowment is split into thousands of funds designated for specific uses that have nothing to do with undergraduates.

“There is a common misconception that endowments, including Harvard’s, can be accessed like bank accounts, used for anything at any time as long as funds are available,” Jeff Neal, a Harvard spokesman, said. “In reality, Harvard’s flexibility in spending from the endowment is limited by the fact that it must be maintained in perpetuity and that it is largely restricted by the explicit wishes of those who contributed the endowed funds.”

Mr. Neal also said that although tuition is high, Harvard, like many universities with large endowments, is generous with financial aid, awarding more than $1.4 billion to undergraduates in the past decade.

But Mr. Unz says that even with potential aid, prospective low-income applicants may be discouraged by the published tuition of $45,000 a year.

The idea of free tuition paid for by endowment income has also gained traction in Congress. College endowments held $516 billion in 2014, with 74 percent of the money held by 11 percent of institutions, according to a Congressional Research Service report in December. The average return in 2014 was 15.5 percent, the report said, but the colleges spent only 4.4 percent. By law, those are tax-exempt earnings.

Continue reading the main story
Top 10 Universities by Endowment Size
Figures for the 2014 fiscal year, in billions.


  • Harvard $35.9
    U. of Texas system 25.4
    Yale 23.9
    Stanford 21.4
    Princeton 21.0
    M.I.T. 12.4
    Texas A&M 11.1
    Northwestern 9.8
    U. of Michigan 9.7
    U. of Pennsylvania 9.6
    Source: National Association of College and University Business Officers and Commonfund Institute

Lawmakers have proposed requiring that about 90 colleges with endowments of $1 billion or more spend about 25 percent of their annual earnings for tuition assistance — or forfeit their tax exemptions.

Representative Tom Reed, a New York Republican who is behind the proposal, said this would partly address a crisis in college costs for low- and middle-income families.

At universities like Harvard with large endowments, Mr. Reed said, “if my math is correct, that would essentially wipe out any tuition bill that a child would be responsible for.”

Mr. Unz, whose 2012 data analysis of admissions at Harvard and other Ivy League institutions is cited in the case against the university, said his slate was not pressing to abolish affirmative action at Harvard, but was only seeking more information. But several members of the group are known for their past advocacy against using race in admissions.

One is Lee C. Cheng, a Harvard graduate and chief legal counsel for the online electronics retailer Newegg.com. He is co-founder of an organization that filed a brief in support of the white plaintiff in the lawsuit against the University of Texas that is before the Supreme Court.

Mr. Cheng is also quoted in the suit against Harvard, which was brought by Students for Fair Admissions.

Another member of the slate is Stuart Taylor Jr., a former reporter for The New York Times who got his law degree from Harvard and is co-author of a 2012 book contending that affirmative action harms minority students. And another is Stephen Hsu, a physicist and vice president at Michigan State University who has written against the use of race in college admissions.

Mr. Nader, who also got his law degree from Harvard, said the admissions system has been “bollixed up for decades” by legacies and other preferences.

In court documents filed in the University of Texas case, Harvard says a victory for the plaintiffs in the Students for Fair Admissions lawsuit would overturn its efforts to build a racially diverse class.

The Board of Overseers, with 30 members elected for rotating six-year terms, is the second most powerful board at the university. Members are generally elected from nominees selected by the Harvard Alumni Association.

To be placed on the ballot, other candidates must get petitions signed this month by 201 Harvard graduates.
 
Would more people be chosen to attend Harvard then, or simply those that do get it for free?
 
All college should be free. We live in a global market which means that we will have to compete with countries like China. Only way we'll be able to do that is to be smarter than them. Limiting education is a sure-fire way to ensure that we lose our mantel as the greatest country on earth.
 
Last edited:
Harvard is pretty cheap to attend for many people already.

If you get in, and your family earns less than $65,000/year your cost is $0.
If your family makes between $65,000 and $150,000 your cost is ~10% of your family income.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dbq hawk 32
About financial aid. This has actually been my experience with private schools. While your state schools give you a straight up number that you have to pay, the private schools often have endowments and the financial aid packages they offer bring the actual number a lot closer to the public school numbers then people might think.

When I went to Valpo the tutition was like 20K a year but the school and the state combined to cover half of it and the actual amount my parents and I paid was closer to 10k a year. I think that's still slightly more then a state school at the time but not extremely out of sight.

State schools have much smaller endowments.

A friend of mine at work went to Ball State, a state school in Indiana with 21,000 students. Their endowment is only 192 Million

I went to Valpo a private school with 4,500 students. The endowment there is 202 million.
 
All college should be free. We live in a global market which means that we will have to compete with countries like China. Only way we'll be able to do that is to be smarter than them. Limiting education is a sure-fire way to ensure that we lose our mantel as the greatest country on earth.
I really want to believe you already know this, but it would never really be "free". You know that, right? Someone ultimately has to pay for these "free" things that everyone wants.
 
I really want to believe you already know this, but it would never really be "free". You know that, right? Someone ultimately has to pay for these "free" things that everyone wants.

To Ciggy, "free" means someone else pays for it.
 
All college should be free. We live in a global market which means that we will have to compete with countries like China. Only way we'll be able to do that is to be smarter than them. Limiting education is a sure-fire way to ensure that we lose our mantel as the greatest country on earth.
All PUBLIC colleges should be free.

Harvard can do what it wants.
 
All college should be free. We live in a global market which means that we will have to compete with countries like China. Only way we'll be able to do that is to be smarter than them. Limiting education is a sure-fire way to ensure that we lose our mantel as the greatest country on earth.

So will the professors be teaching for free? Who will maintain the schools? Will the janitors work for free? The school administrators? If no one pays for college how do the college employees make a living?
 
All PUBLIC colleges should be free.

Harvard can do what it wants.
If pressed, I'd actually go in the opposite direction - if Harvard wants to raise enough money from its alumni and endowment to offer free education to the best and brightest, then by all means, go for it. But the citizens of this state shouldn't have to foot the bill for every kid that wants to go to Iowa. And certainly not that hellhole posing as a university in Ames.
 
The same reason my tax dollars go to fund your kids.
Apples and oranges. If precious little Cinnamon's parents were forced to fund her elementary and secondary education when she is between 5-18 years old, let's face it - they probably couldn't/wouldn't. And America would be worse off for the tens of thousands of completely uneducated little pricks running through the streets all day long for 12 months out of the year.
But if Cinnamon still can't get her act together by the time she is 18 and figure out a way to either earn her way into college, or self-fund it once she gets there....well, you have to start taking responsibility for your own life at some point. So it becomes a Cinnamon problem, not mine.
 
The same reason my tax dollars go to fund your kids.

I wasn't being a smart-ass, I asked a simple question; but all I got was a doucebag response. I guess it was wrong of me to assume that maybe you had relevant comment as to why you have the opinion you have. Won't make that mistake again.
 
All PUBLIC colleges should be free.

Harvard can do what it wants.
Then what standards to the Universities go by? Who do they let in? I've noticed generally that people who actually want education, usually go and get it.

Take the GI Bill for instance. Only about 30% of veterans actually use any of it at all. Not just including retirees have access to it.
 
Apples and oranges. If precious little Cinnamon's parents were forced to fund her elementary and secondary education when she is between 5-18 years old, let's face it - they probably couldn't/wouldn't. And America would be worse off for the tens of thousands of completely uneducated little pricks running through the streets all day long for 12 months out of the year.
But if Cinnamon still can't get her act together by the time she is 18 and figure out a way to either earn her way into college, or self-fund it once she gets there....well, you have to start taking responsibility for your own life at some point. So it becomes a Cinnamon problem, not mine.
I'm not sure baby sitting is the primary reason for public education. The reason the nation went to free education was because American industry told politicians they needed better trained workers. That industrial need today extends to grade 16. We educate our population so that the nation can prosper. In the past, attending the state schools were so cheap that a student could fund their education with a summer job. We moved away from investing in college tuition assistance. It's time to reverse that course for the good of the overall economy.
 
I wasn't being a smart-ass, I asked a simple question; but all I got was a doucebag response. I guess it was wrong of me to assume that maybe you had relevant comment as to why you have the opinion you have. Won't make that mistake again.
That's hardly a doucebag answer. The reasons are the same. Because it make society more advanced and raises the standards of living for all. That's why we invest in public education at any level.
 
I'm not sure baby sitting is the primary reason for public education. The reason the nation went to free education was because American industry told politicians they needed better trained workers. That industrial need today extends to grade 16. We educate our population so that the nation can prosper. In the past, attending the state schools were so cheap that a student could fund their education with a summer job. We moved away from investing in college tuition assistance. It's time to reverse that course for the good of the overall economy.
Let's be honest - for a certain segment of the population, babysitting IS the primary reason. It's a cold, hard truth, but 99% of the time, if you haven't worked hard enough growing up to be able to afford furthering your education in some manner, you aren't going to make good use of that education if someone wants to hand it to you either. There are exceptions of course, but not enough to raise everyone's taxes to see if it makes a difference.
 
Let's be honest - for a certain segment of the population, babysitting IS the primary reason. It's a cold, hard truth, but 99% of the time, if you haven't worked hard enough growing up to be able to afford furthering your education in some manner, you aren't going to make good use of that education if someone wants to hand it to you either. There are exceptions of course, but not enough to raise everyone's taxes to see if it makes a difference.
We disagree. I don't think there are many 5-18 year olds who do work hard enough to afford college. I think most (way more than 1%) get their with help from their parents. Which means going to college is largely a factor of choices made by others. Making college affordable puts the choice back on the individual.
 
I'm not sure baby sitting is the primary reason for public education. The reason the nation went to free education was because American industry told politicians they needed better trained workers. That industrial need today extends to grade 16. We educate our population so that the nation can prosper. In the past, attending the state schools were so cheap that a student could fund their education with a summer job. We moved away from investing in college tuition assistance. It's time to reverse that course for the good of the overall economy.

If the little darlings prove they learned anything in grades K through 12, then by all means - free 12 trough16. If not, the world still need maids and ditch diggers. Weed out the riff raff and it might work.
 
We disagree. I don't think there are many 5-18 year olds who do work hard enough to afford college. I think most (way more than 1%) get their with help from their parents. Which means going to college is largely a factor of choices made by others. Making college affordable puts the choice back on the individual.
Right. But in this case the village (parents included) has cared enough to get their kids to make an effort to do their best, get admitted to college, maybe make a few bucks with a part-time job, get a scholarship or two, take out a few loans, and mom and pop help with what they can. If, on the other hand, you are raised in an village that doesn't value hard work and education, you as an individual are pretty unlikely to make the choices necessary to improve your life, regardless of how many handouts you are given via the generosity of taxpayers who also paid for you to be babysat throughout your formative years.

And I don't really have any solutions for the 2nd village, other than bombing it of course.
 
If the little darlings prove they learned anything in grades K through 12, then by all means - free 12 trough16. If not, the world still need maids and ditch diggers. Weed out the riff raff and it might work.
There are admission standards. The top half of the class goes to community college. The lower half goes to ditch digger school. One thing that always gets ignored in these "free college" discussions is all the proposals include vocational training programs too. It's about getting the workforce trained.
 
Right. But in this case the village (parents included) has cared enough to get their kids to make an effort to do their best, get admitted to college, maybe make a few bucks with a part-time job, get a scholarship or two, take out a few loans, and mom and pop help with what they can. If, on the other hand, you are raised in an village that doesn't value hard work and education, you as an individual are pretty unlikely to make the choices necessary to improve your life, regardless of how many handouts you are given via the generosity of taxpayers who also paid for you to be babysat throughout your formative years.

And I don't really have any solutions for the 2nd village, other than bombing it of course.
I don't think this applies to this topic. Anyone getting this handout still has to qualify for admission to the school and still has to go to class and pass the courses. The very nature of the handout means anyone not putting in the work won't get the handout. Free school for a person who doesn't go to school is free for the taxpayers too.
 
I don't think this applies to this topic. Anyone getting this handout still has to qualify for admission to the school and still has to go to class and pass the courses. The very nature of the handout means anyone not putting in the work won't get the handout. Free school for a person who doesn't go to school is free for the taxpayers too.
Ok. But is there actually data out there on how many qualified and motivated students exhaust every avenue possible and still just cannot afford to get a post-secondary education of any kind? Because I think the number of kids that are just lazy and use the "college is too expensive" crutch is like, way higher.
 
There are admission standards. The top half of the class goes to community college. The lower half goes to ditch digger school. One thing that always gets ignored in these "free college" discussions is all the proposals include vocational training programs too. It's about getting the workforce trained.

Great - I'm in. You know there are techniques for leaning on a shovel that practically eliminate the possibility of injuries.
 
Ok. But is there actually data out there on how many qualified and motivated students exhaust every avenue possible and still just cannot afford to get a post-secondary education of any kind? Because I think the number of kids that are just lazy and use the "college is too expensive" crutch is like, way higher.
I don't know, I'm not motivated enough to research that. But I don't think that matters. Those lazy kids aren't going to be going to school anyway so they won't cost us a thing.

Personally If I were king I would be aiming for simply affordable college. I would define affordability as what a student could make at a minimum wage job over the summer break. At current rates that is about $1200 per month x 3 summer months means a year of tuition and fees should come to about $3600/year. A year at Iowa today is about $8k in state.
 
Great - I'm in. You know there are techniques for leaning on a shovel that practically eliminate the possibility of injuries.
I did not know that, but I'm not surprised to learn. I wish someone would teach me how to use those bent handle snow shovels. I find them very odd.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT