hydroxychloroquine makes hospitalized patients substantially less likely to die.
- Thread starter biggreydogs
- Start date
Gawddamn, we're still on this topic?
Trump is a dumb f***. These laughably desperate and insanely idiotic rationalizations won't change that.
We get it. You and others are voting Trump and won't change your minds. Cool.
Trump is a dumb f***. These laughably desperate and insanely idiotic rationalizations won't change that.
We get it. You and others are voting Trump and won't change your minds. Cool.
Science is within this article. Who cares as long as something works. You against a cure?
It's a surprising finding because several other studies have found no benefit from hydroxychloroquine, a drug originally developed to treat and prevent malaria. President Donald Trump touted the drug heavily, but later studies found not only did patients not do better if they got the drug, they were more likely to suffer cardiac side effects.
So who got paid off for this “study”?
So who got paid off for this “study”?
A lot of people are saying you have to take it with Pepsi
Trump Jr. is better at this than his old man. Just as unprincipled and dishonest, but smarter. Makes me a bit nervous about the future.
FUNFACT: "The media" weren't the ones who shut down all the studies patients died from and had heart arrhythmia problems with using this drug early on.
Trump and his buds touted an unproven option, that has not consistently been shown to be effective and safe. Period.
Well there is just the minor point that that those studies you refer to were ultimately withdrawn by the publications due to questions about the authors conclusions and methodology. Basically they were crap.
Here you go Joe. Its about the data right? Actually with you it is about the conclusion if I am being honest.
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"The Lancet, one of the world’s top medical journals, on Thursday retracted an influential study that raised alarms about the safety of the experimental Covid-19 treatments chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine amid scrutiny of the data underlying the paper.
Just over an hour later, the New England Journal of Medicine retracted a separate study, focused on blood pressure medications in Covid-19, that relied on data from the same company.
The retractions came at the request of the authors of the studies, published last month, who were not directly involved with the data collection and sources, the journals said.
“We can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources,” Mandeep Mehra of Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Frank Ruschitzka of University Hospital Zurich, and Amit Patel of University of Utah said in a statement issued by the Lancet. “Due to this unfortunate development, the authors request that the paper be retracted.”
The retraction of the Lancet paper is sure to add fuel to contentious arguments about the potential of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, two old malaria drugs, in Covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus. President Trump has touted them as valuable treatments, despite a lack of rigorous data showing they have a benefit.
Meanwhile, on Wednesday, researchers reported the results of the first gold-standard clinical trial of hydroxycholoroquine in Covid-19, concluding that it did not prevent infections any better than placebo. Other clinical trials, including some looking at the drugs as treatments, are ongoing.
The Lancet study gained so much attention because it went further than other observational studies that had similarly found the drugs were not associated with improved outcomes for patients. The study, which was purportedly based on patient data from 671 hospitals on six continents, reported the drugs also corresponded to higher mortality.
The findings led to the pause of some global clinical trials studying hydroxychloroquine so researchers could check for any safety concerns. Outside experts, however, quickly raised concerns after noticing inconsistencies in the data. They asked the company that compiled and analyzed the data, Surgisphere, to explain how it sourced its data.
As scrutiny grew, the authors on the paper not affiliated with Surgisphere called for an independent audit. In their Lancet statement Thursday, they said that Surgisphere was not cooperating with the independent reviewers and would not provide the data.
“As such, our reviewers were not able to conduct an independent and private peer review and therefore notified us of their withdrawal from the peer-review process,” the researchers wrote.
Outside experts raised similar concerns about the New England Journal study, which found that the blood pressure medications were safe to take for people with Covid-19. It was also based on data from Surgisphere.
In the New England Journal retraction statement, the study authors wrote, “Because all the authors were not granted access to the raw data and the raw data could not be made available to a third-party auditor, we are unable to validate the primary data sources underlying our article.” They apologized “for the difficulties that this has caused.”
Concerns about the health risks of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine were based on evidence beyond the Lancet paper. Earlier, the Food and Drug Administration warned the drugs should not be used in Covid-19 outside a clinical trial or beyond hospitalized patients because of the risks to heart health.
The drugs are safe for people to take for malaria, rheumatoid arthritis, and lupus, for whom they are shown to have benefits, experts stress."
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/04...t-raised-safety-concerns-about-malaria-drugs/
It's useless to argue with Joe using facts, he's allergic to them.
Um, no.
Many other locations shut down their studies of HCQ because of the toxicity, negative benefit/risk ratios, etc. It had nothing to do with "Surgisphere". I'm sure you can Google up a half dozen shut down.
Because I know where to look, here are a few that were "Terminated":
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04307693
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04345861
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04333654
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04329611
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04362332
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04348474
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04341727
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04329572
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04334967
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04369742
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04363203
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04341870
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Don Jr. Always desperate for Daddy to finally show he loves him.
Oh, looky: here's a few still recruiting!!!
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04392219
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04405570
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04405739
So strange....
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04392219
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04405570
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04405739
So strange....
Oh huh, you mean some of the ones that were terminated with this listed as the reason "Suspended (Enrollment was suspended on 22may2020, after Mehra et al (Lancet 2020) suggested excess toxicity of HCQ.)"
You are actually arguing that the drugs were determined to be toxic and bad because of two things
1. a bad, withdrawn Mehra et al study
2. Studies on HDQ that were terminated early because the bad withdrawn Mehra study was believed. That has now been proven to bad and was withdrawn.
Are you for real?
That isn't the reason they listed.
And IF that were the only reason, they'd have restarted already.
"News agencies"?
I already posted on the actual study, and have pointed out > a half dozen canceled studies on HCQ which have not "restarted".
What? That IS the reason they listed. It was taken directly from your link. Wtf old man?
Click on it yourself.
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04329611
Most all likely cancelled/postponed due to the safety risk suggested by the discreditied study.
When did these “toxicity issues” start after decades of use for a plethora of illnesses? Were they previously undiscovered?
Nope. Once that was discredited, they would have restarted, if data warranted it. That was well over a month ago already.
Why don't you email the PIs listed, and ask if they're going to restart any of them?
Or, perhaps dexamethasone is proving to be so much MORE effective, w/o the associated heart risks, people recognize it is simply a waste of resources. Already found something as effective, with none of the heart risks....
Wow. Look at all the dexamethasone studies still active (and recruiting)....
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04325061
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04347980
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04395105
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04452565
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04327401
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04344730
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04360876
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04445506
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04366115
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04325061
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04347980
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04395105
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04452565
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04327401
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04344730
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04360876
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04445506
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04366115
Risks vs attributes have been studied by agencies and reported to governments, which have made decisions to withdraw the drug as treatment. Our scientists advise against it.
The medical community has found methods of treatment to improve Covid-19 patients situations, including combinations of drugs and an alternative to ventilators.
This has helped lower the mortality rate. The issue with hydroxychloroquine was not only was the questionable effectiveness, if any any, but the inherent threat the drug exposes to the patient.
The drive by the right to champion is for the drug to be excepted, despite any evidence provided otherwise. The right is so heavily invested in its proposing it, it can't be dissuaded. This is right wing mentality. Facts can't break its veneer.
The medical community has found methods of treatment to improve Covid-19 patients situations, including combinations of drugs and an alternative to ventilators.
This has helped lower the mortality rate. The issue with hydroxychloroquine was not only was the questionable effectiveness, if any any, but the inherent threat the drug exposes to the patient.
The drive by the right to champion is for the drug to be excepted, despite any evidence provided otherwise. The right is so heavily invested in its proposing it, it can't be dissuaded. This is right wing mentality. Facts can't break its veneer.
Wearing a mask, maintaining social distance and staying home makes people less likely to be hospitalized.
Op posts an article linked with a new study and you write this in response. Very odd.
"Hydroxychloroquine worked this whole time."
NOPE.
Multiple studies were shut down because of their OWN observed toxicity and lack of benefit. Inclusive of one in Michigan.
And it’s quite a stretch for the good doc to claim the media’s rightful skepticism about Trump’s hydroxychloroquine boasts killed people. Nobody was prevented from taking it and the report he’s referencing certainly doesn’t support what Trump was claiming. So Dr. David Samardi is full of shit.
