You can assume whatever you wish. Making an argument on any controversial topic, much less a religious one, in this time of setting is an exercise in futility. The resources are available if you wish to take advantage. If you are truly interested in discussing this topic then you can DM me.
I need a lesson in religion
- Thread starter sadiehawkins
- Start date
well at least we agree on the Clone fans lol.
and as far as religion and politics go, shouldn't ever be that way.. Jesus rejected the politics of his day and refused to be King, even though the Jews wanted him to lead a revolt against Rome. He preached about Gods Kingdom, that would be the true source of solving all of mankinds problems. Problem is most religion who claim to represent the God of the Bible, throw their support behind earthly governements, thus turning their back on the very Lord and Savior they claim to follow.
Have you ever studied Thomas Aquinas or Saint Augustine?
They're pretty amazing. You could study them for a lifetime and not get your fill.
I pretty much fall in line with Ricky Gervais on religion. I'm not saying there is no higher being, but the utter nonsense of so many religions is beyond stupid.
That would be strange given that Jesus likely wasn't a white dude.
As much as some conservatives want to believe this but WASP's were not God's chosen people.
There is no heaven or hell, when you die, you are a bunch decomposing cells. The biggest reason people want to believe in heaven is because they are scared of death.
I don't need to prove something that has never been proven. It is your belief. So be it. There is no evidence to prove that heaven or hell exist.
And for my Catholic HROT friends, by your own definition infants that die before joining the church / baptized are in this fictional area called purgatory.
But, neither prove anything. They are philosophers. Neither hold up to severe scrutiny.
How can we know that there is a God?
"The heavens declare the glory of God, the sky above
proclaims His handiwork." Psalm 19:1
By looking at nature we can see the handiwork of God.
He created the sun, moon, and stars. He creates the
rain & snow as well as the four seasons of Spring, Summer,
Fall, and Winter. God has created day and night.
Of course God is also the Creator of the mountains, the
oceans, the plains, the birds, the fish, the land animals.
and human beings. By looking at nature we know there
is a God.
"The heavens declare the glory of God, the sky above
proclaims His handiwork." Psalm 19:1
By looking at nature we can see the handiwork of God.
He created the sun, moon, and stars. He creates the
rain & snow as well as the four seasons of Spring, Summer,
Fall, and Winter. God has created day and night.
Of course God is also the Creator of the mountains, the
oceans, the plains, the birds, the fish, the land animals.
and human beings. By looking at nature we know there
is a God.
If there is a God I think it would be able to see thru the bullshit of believing just to be safe.
Kind of like being good because you're scared of punishment, not because you're actually a good person.
No, but the use of the bible as a reason for why the bible is true isnt really an argument at all. Its blind faith.
I understand your skepticism and will frame my questions to concur that the need for truth is important.
It is noteworthy that the Bible has written chronicals of historic events. Remove religion from this conversation for a moment and most scholars conclude that the Bible has true historical references (many at that).
Next, what does one do with an ancient text (the most popular text in the world) that contains hundreds of accurate prophecies? One correct prophecy is astonishing let alone hundreds. One of those prophecies has even occurred in some of our lifetimes that has been witnessed first-hand (the reformation of Israel in a day). From a strictly scholarly viewpoint, this is important to study and learn about, no? Belief in the faith aside, most would agree that the Bible contains lots of truth.
The bible is not a historical text. Its a religious one. Just because there are things in it that refer to real people, places, and events does nothing to prove in the mythical elements. Also can you say with 100% confidence that Israel and Zionism in itself is not a large scale self-fulfilling prophecy?
Id be curious about the hundreds of other accurate prophecies youre talking about.
Describe what we're looking for it and where it's supposed to be, and let's see if we can find it.
Again, I’m framing this with faith removed from the conversation. I’d argue that it is foolish for secularists to declare the Bible as “untrue.” The Old Testment is a historical record of the people of Israel. This really cannot be argued.
As for Israel being a self-fulfilled prophecy I would vehemently disagree. If you know your modern day history of Israel then you would know how unlikely it really was that Israel came back into existence. Then, it is also a modern-day miracle that Israel has maintained their existence since 1948. It is not self-fulfilling since many fought against (and still do) for Israel’s existence.
As for other correct prophecies that are documented and supported through archaeology, a few are:
-Babylon rules over Judah for 70 years
-Babylon’s gates open for Cyrus
-Babylon’s kingdom is destroyed
-God rescues the Jews from Babylonian rule and brings them safety
-Ninevah destroyed by fire
-Tyre attacked by many nations & Tyre’s stones, timber and soil thrown into the sea
-Edom will be destroyed
-Israel will be scattered
-Israel will be victorious over its enemy and rebuilt and gardens will bloom again
-Egypt will not rule over other nations
These are just a few that are well established and verifiable through historical & archaeological evidence. There are many others but I omitted those since they relate to the birth of Christ and His life.
To say the bible is a good source for why God exists is not example of "faith removed".
Ok, make your point. I know enough to be dangerous.
I dont know enough about these really address it. I remain skeptical though. Religious types have a tendency to fit an event to their narrative.
Also, none of these things do anything to prove the mythology.
Spiritual transcendence. You can probably find it within yourself. But you won't find it unless you look. It takes more than just faith I believe. Those that don't find it will simply be removed from the collective unconsciousness, like a farmer pulling the weeds. It's not easy. I'll probably be one of the weeds.
Interesting stuff. I'd be interested in knowing when these were prophesied and when they occurred.
As I understand it the oldest OTs we have are translations dating back only 2-3 centuries BC. So I'm assuming all these things happened after that. Otherwise they might be history, but not prophesy.
It would also be fun to see the words of prophesy lined up with the actual events that are said to have fulfilled them, just to see if the prophesies are actually clear and were actually fulfilled.
There is, of course, one other huge problem with using prophesies as proof. Namely what's the difference between prophesy and just smart guesswork?
People predict the future all the time. Sometimes they are right. We may praise them, but that doesn't mean other things they say are necessarily going to be right. And it definitely doesn't prove they were guided by God, or that God's hand can be seen in the outcome they correctly predicted.
I am merely speaking of facts that the Bible presents. It is not my job to compel you to faith. The Bible however should be examined closely and merits scholarly review from believers as well as non-believers.
Re Israel, I find it to be a modern day miracle that is exists at all today. Between 1945 and early 1948 there was no appetite in the world to make this happen. There were just a few other things going on. Even so, for every 1,000 Jews who wanted to return to their homeland, there were a million ready to fight against it. It was “formed in a day” just as the Bible predicted via the UN. Arabs went to war the very next day and lost. Israel had no formal anything yet they still pushed back the Islamists. In 1967, things were again stacked against Israel yet they prevailed again. Iran openly admits to wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth and yet, Israel still stands.
We were talking about heaven and hell.
I do like your weed comment, though. It fits one of the religions I invented.
The Dead Sea Scrolls helped put a lot of this to rest. The prohphecies are numerous and specific, not general predictions.
There was a mathematician who reviewed the probability of a these prophecies and even just a few coming true and the number he came up with had a lot of zero’s.
Thankfully, the Bible is demonstrably false and not the word of any god that might exist.
God, dear Heavenly Father, please help this man figure out then/than. /Amen
Prophecy written around 1400 BC
Exodus 12:5
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from
the goats.
Fulfilled 6-7 BC to 30 AD
You see why this ^ is proof of nothing right?
From your perspective, sure. That’s why I purposefully omitted any direct prophecies related to Christ and focused on those of historical and archaeological relevance.
From my perspective, Christ was prophesied in the first page of the Bible. But that is not what I am offering up for discussion.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1102021813&srcid=share
Does the prophecy regarding the fall of Babylon count?
You need to do better than a generic link stating “it is accurate.” Spell it out. Provide the text and describe rather events.
Did you study the Bible at a university?
Jesus is God and everything in the Bible culminates to Him.
.... well show me the prophecies then because after going through your link, it looks like Nostradomus crap.
If there is God, he is an evil God, letting such terrible things happen on this planet. You can't give thanks to God without giving him/her/it blame as well.
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