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Idea for Settling Refugees

WhiteSoxClone

HB Legend
May 29, 2001
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So let's start from the assumption that we are going to accept Syrian and Iraqi refugees, which I personally think is the right thing to do. Let's also assume that we are going to do everything we can to make sure the ones getting in are truly refugees and not terrorists posing as refugees. One of the problems that France and other European countries has is that they already have large Muslim populations and that many, or even most, of their terrorists are homegrown. Young men who grew up in Western countries but nonetheless become terrorists. Many of these terrorists' parents were probably just like the refugees that want to come here now. They had no sympathy for terrorists or extremism. Yet, some of their sons have grown up to blame the West for all of their problems in life and they are susceptible to extremism.

My question for debate requires a bit of history. The Roman Empire used immigrants and refugees to populate its lands with regularity. It often populated its lands with the peoples of its conquered enemies, or with people fleeing other conquering armies. But when it did, it did not settle those people in mass. The fear was that if they settled in mass, they would never Romanize, would never accept Roman culture and would instead maintain their own culture. They would be insular from the Romans around them and never accept Roman as their true home. So they broke them up into small groups and spread them throughout the Empire. In contrast, the American government likes to settle refugees from the same part of the world to the same area of the country in order to allow them to maintain their culture and give them a sense of home away from home. When various plagues or depopulation events hit late in the time of the Empire, the Romans were forced to settle entire tribes to depopulated areas. Many of those tribes never Romanized, and in time some of them revolted against Rome. This is often cited as one of the reasons for the fall of the Empire.

(For the hardcore history buffs, please excuse any mistakes I made. I'm no expert on Roman history, just reciting what I think I remember from what I've read. The point isn't to discuss Roman history and my knowledge, or lack thereof, but instead to simply set up the following question.)

So my question is, starting with the idea that yes, we will accept refugees - is it better to settle them together to give them a sense of home and community or is it best perhaps to spread them thinly across the country so as to more likely force them to integrate with our culture?
 
Interesting. Since we're not resettling a conquered people, I'm not really sure if the analogy is appropriate. Since you made the assumption that the refugees we let in are not terrorists, why would we need to split them up to assimilate them? Historically speaking, US immigrants have not been segregated into small groups, they've tended to settle en masse (Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, etc.) I can't see us treating Syrian refugees differently because of a perceived threat from the far right.
 
Interesting. Since we're not resettling a conquered people, I'm not really sure if the analogy is appropriate. Since you made the assumption that the refugees we let in are not terrorists, why would we need to split them up to assimilate them? Historically speaking, US immigrants have not been segregated into small groups, they've tended to settle en masse (Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, etc.) I can't see us treating Syrian refugees differently because of a perceived threat from the far right.

Thanks for the reply, I guess no one really finds this an interesting idea. I didn't mean to imply that the Syrians were conquered peoples, but Rome settled all immigrants that way, including those requesting safe harbor within the Empire.

I'm simply suggesting that perhaps the issues France and Belgium are having with homegrown terrorists who are the sons of immigrants suggests that a different policy might be prudent. And I don't think that the threat of homegrown Islamic terrorism is just a "perceived threat." Its real, unless you think that there is something about American society that is superior to French society that allows us to overcome it. The question is whether we can put into place strategies now to limit the risk?

Has it been healthy to settle people en masse here in the U.S.? Surely its contributed to racism and discrimination against those peoples and slowed their incorporation into American society. But its also surely contributed to American culture by allowing their culture to become part of and improve our own.
 
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I wasn't trying to be combative, just kind of playing devil's advocate. Although with our screen names I don't feel like we should get along!

Your point about groups settling together contributing to racism and discrimination may be valid, but I'd lean toward your second point, that the US is the "Great Melting Pot," that we have welcomed all cultures, and I believe we should continue to do so.
 
Are we offering safe harbor to people in trouble who we expect to return home after the danger ebbs or we taking in new immigrants with an eye that they will become Americans? Because you seem to be talking like it's the latter where I thought refugees were the former.
 
Are we offering safe harbor to people in trouble who we expect to return home after the danger ebbs or we taking in new immigrants with an eye that they will become Americans? Because you seem to be talking like it's the latter where I thought refugees were the former.

I can't imagine Syria is a place that they're going to want to return to in the near future. Not like Assad's going to abdicate, ISIS clears out, and everything's rainbows and unicorns.
 
I wasn't trying to be combative, just kind of playing devil's advocate. Although with our screen names I don't feel like we should get along!

Your point about groups settling together contributing to racism and discrimination may be valid, but I'd lean toward your second point, that the US is the "Great Melting Pot," that we have welcomed all cultures, and I believe we should continue to do so.

I know you weren't, and I realized after re-reading my post that it came off as defensive, so I tried to edit it before you saw it, but I must have taken to long. Thanks for the thoughts.

I'm just brainstorming ways that our children won't have to deal in 20 years with the issues that France is facing now. PBS has this really interesting series called The Brain with David Eagleman that is running right now. The last episode was about how we are such social animals and how we need that. But the last part was about how, if we are so social, how can we also do horrible things to each other? And it turns out that propaganda is extremely powerful. No surprise there, but just how powerful was a bit of an eye opener. We are social, but we also like to belong to groups and have a natural distrust of those not in our group. And propaganda is a powerful tool to convince us that there are significant differences between us and someone else based on even the most trivial of traits. And it is especially effective against, again no surprise, teenage boys and young men.

However, it turns out that the brain is also very good at recognizing the effects propaganda is having on it IF it is pointed out. And that reverse propaganda, that is propaganda that teaches that we are alike and not different, is just as effective.

So it made me wonder, what can we do better to counter ISIS propaganda? Because they clearly are winning on that front. Perhaps some investment in media and education is a better option than more bombs?

I'm just spit balling here.
 
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I can't imagine Syria is a place that they're going to want to return to in the near future. Not like Assad's going to abdicate, ISIS clears out, and everything's rainbows and unicorns.

Yeah, I agree. I can't imagine that 20,000 people are going to head back to Syria in 5 years. Once they're here, they're here to stay. Can you imagine removing 20,000 people from the labor force and local economies of wherever they settle in 5 years?
 
Yeah, I agree. I can't imagine that 20,000 people are going to head back to Syria in 5 years. Once they're here, they're here to stay. Can you imagine removing 20,000 people from the labor force and local economies of wherever they settle in 5 years?

Especially if they settle en masse ;)
 
I know you weren't, and I realized after re-reading my post that it came off as defensive, so I tried to edit it before you saw it, but I must have taken to long. Thanks for the thoughts.

I'm just brainstorming ways that our children won't have to deal in 20 years with the issues that France is facing now. PBS has this really interesting series called The Brain with David Eagleman that is running right now. The last episode was about how we are such social animals and how we need that. But the last part was about how, if we are so social, how can we also do horrible things to each other? And it turns out that propaganda is extremely powerful. We are social, but we also like to belong to groups and have a natural distrust of those not in our group. And propaganda is a powerful tool to convince us that there are significant differences between us and someone else based on even the most trivial of traits.

However, it turns out that the brain is also very good at recognizing the effects propaganda is having on it IF it is pointed out. And that reverse propaganda, that is propaganda that teaches that we are alike and not different, is just as effective.

So it made me wonder, what can we do better to counter ISIS propaganda? Because they clearly are winning on that front. Perhaps some investment in media and education is a better option than more bombs?

I'm just spit balling here.

There's some pretty big marketing firms in the world that I'm sure would love to take a shot at ISIS!
 
Yeah, I agree. I can't imagine that 20,000 people are going to head back to Syria in 5 years. Once they're here, they're here to stay. Can you imagine removing 20,000 people from the labor force and local economies of wherever they settle in 5 years?
Sure I could imagine that. Rs want to remove 11 million.
 
Sure I could imagine that. Rs want to remove 11 million.

Yes, well, I think most of us know that that's not reasonable. I don't think all Rs want to do that, but the candidate most vocal for that position is polling at 1/4 of the likely voters so obviously a lot do.
 
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remove? I dunno. have them do what's right and follow the law-maybe
You seem to be having problems connecting the dots again mate. Following the law would remove them. Why do you care what some federal law reads anyway? You already admitted the Governors of Texas want an open border. States rights should mean they can stay, right?
 
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