I know there's been a lot of talk in here about how our offensive line, for a lack of a better word has been bad. Just wondering what you guys think the lineup should be if we didn't rotate any guys?
Ideal Offensive Line
- Thread starter hawkeye bb n fb fan
- Start date
99% replying on this board would simply be offering an uneducated guess, myself included. We don't watch practice, break down film and know the line calls for each play to accurately grade the players. If there is one position group that after 19 years we should have learned to trust the coaches by now, its OL.
With that being said, there seems to be too much pressure coming from the inside and I'd offer its not the result of Daniels. As a result, I would be tempted to shift Welsh back inside and give Wirfs a shot, at least rotate him in for a series or two each game considering his redshirt is pulled. So much of what we do up front is based on communication and timing, so i'm not shocked we've struggled to run against defenses like Penn St. and MSU. Another component is the QB getting us into the right calls and also recognizing when a defense is bluffing. I suspect there have been quite a few times where Nate has audibled right into the hands of a defense based on their alignment and bluff...he will get better at this phase of the game.
This is somewhat unrelated to your question, and I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it was kind of shocking to see number of people ready to jump off the ledge after a last second loss to a top 5 team and a 7pt loss to a respectable team on the road. Fire the coaches, replace all the players, paint the water tower, pull the ANF decal...you name it, folks are calling for it.
As much as we (or better yet I) hate the phrase developmental program...we are what KF has made us, so to think we are a finished product by week 5 is probably unrealistic and its reasonable to assume we will get better as the season goes on. If we had beat PSU, things would like a lot different today and all we're talking about is 1 play. Heck, take the dozen or so passes over 30yds that have missed by inches...those are game changers and I can't help but think those issues will be worked out with time and experience.
Back to your original question, I wouldn't expect major changes and again if hte line improves their communication and timing, we will see improvement. If wholesale changes are made, wouldn't we be going back to square one in that respect?
go hawks
Out of all the position groups, I feel least inclined to second-guess Ferentz on the OL.
With that said, it seems our guards are meh. Sliding Welsh back inside and giving Wirfs a shot might help.
With that said, it seems our guards are meh. Sliding Welsh back inside and giving Wirfs a shot might help.
if I could I would move JT Render back to LG then move RSSR Welsh back to RG then put RSSR Myer at RT
Welsh was on the preseason Outland Trophy Watchist because of his play as a interior OL. Wirff may turn out to be a good OL. BUT I will not be surprised if he ends up a guard.
Kallenberg came in the 2017 class and is RS'ing and he is more of a true Tackle than Wirff @ 6'6, I would love to see this as the 2018 OL
LT 6'7 320 lb RSSO Jackson
LG 6'5 315 lb SO Wirff
C 6'4 295 lb SR Daniels
RG 6'4 305 lb SR Render
RT 6'6 290 lb FR Kalenberg
these are the current weights, who knows how much more weight the coaches want these players to put on, Kallenberg is the only one that I see the coaches adding 20-25 lbs on
Welsh was on the preseason Outland Trophy Watchist because of his play as a interior OL. Wirff may turn out to be a good OL. BUT I will not be surprised if he ends up a guard.
Kallenberg came in the 2017 class and is RS'ing and he is more of a true Tackle than Wirff @ 6'6, I would love to see this as the 2018 OL
LT 6'7 320 lb RSSO Jackson
LG 6'5 315 lb SO Wirff
C 6'4 295 lb SR Daniels
RG 6'4 305 lb SR Render
RT 6'6 290 lb FR Kalenberg
these are the current weights, who knows how much more weight the coaches want these players to put on, Kallenberg is the only one that I see the coaches adding 20-25 lbs on
nice picture but 1 problem: there are not 8-9 defensive players attacking, you show just 4 defensive players going up against 5 OL.
If ( big if) Myers and Wirfs were both 100%, I would like to see: Jackson, Myers, Daniels, Welsh and Wirfs.
Maybe that can happen after the bye week. Meanwhile, Myers and Wirfs need the week off. Also, Fant might need the week off to get healthy and replace him with a very good blocking TE like Pekar. That could help the running game and still have Hockenson to help the passing game.
Since we aren't healthy, I suspect it will be: Jax, Reynolds, Daniels, Render and Welsh, which is the line-up mostly played during the MSU game. Throw Pekar and Kulick in for run blocking.
Then throw a wrinkle into that zone stretch play where Akrum tosses a 10 or 15 yard pass to the TE who has gotten behind the safeties who are undoubtedly flying to the LOS to stop the run. Hopefully the WR on that side has run a deep post to the other side of the field and taken the CB with him. Should be an open field if the pass is completed.
Maybe that can happen after the bye week. Meanwhile, Myers and Wirfs need the week off. Also, Fant might need the week off to get healthy and replace him with a very good blocking TE like Pekar. That could help the running game and still have Hockenson to help the passing game.
Since we aren't healthy, I suspect it will be: Jax, Reynolds, Daniels, Render and Welsh, which is the line-up mostly played during the MSU game. Throw Pekar and Kulick in for run blocking.
Then throw a wrinkle into that zone stretch play where Akrum tosses a 10 or 15 yard pass to the TE who has gotten behind the safeties who are undoubtedly flying to the LOS to stop the run. Hopefully the WR on that side has run a deep post to the other side of the field and taken the CB with him. Should be an open field if the pass is completed.
Renders was th starting LG at the end of the 16 season and was the preseason starting LG, move Myer to RT, move Render back to LG and Welsh back to RG, as I don't get this love affair with a FR, even James Daniels didn't get his 1st start until the Rose Bowl game in game #14.
He played RT vs North Texas when we were running the ball to the right side and having success in the second half
Also, nitewing, we aren't playing PSU or MSU this week. And I haven't said he should play again before this week. We are playing Illinois who is probably a step up from North Texas but not THAT much from what I've seen, so he should able to get some reps while at the same time helping us win
Gallery, Steinbach, Nelson, Yanda, Scherff
How so? Is the very first play on offense any different than the 23rd play? Each play can get your QB killed or score a touchdown.
but you haven't told me why he should start. is it because he is a 4*? hmmm lets see
Blythe a 3 year starter at C who started as a RSFR. REDSHIRTED his 1st season
Walsh was a 4* who also RED SHIRTED
the last US Army AA was 4* Ward and he didn't do much
DT Johnson was a 4* and he RED SHIRTED
DT Ekakitie was a 4* and he RED SHIRTED.
again explain to me why Wirff should start, when HC KF who is considered a OL Guru in the NFL and BF was a NFL OL in the NFL don't think he is ready to start or get extended minutes.
Debating whether or not we've found the reincarnation of HerbyHawk. We got starz, heights and weights, but no 40 times. I'm on the fence.
Because it can’t get any fn worse. What’s the gamble? This team is coming off a 19 yard performance on the ground. Maybe it would wake some people the hell up too. A true frosh taking your spot would be enough to piss someone off I’d think
There is no doubt its Herby/Kilroy, etc. None at all...while he hasn't referenced 40 times in this thread, he is arguing with himself which is another tell...
move Reiff to RT and move Yanda to LG Although Sherffe could be used on that OL.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I actually agree with nitewing. If Myers was good enough to be the starting LT at the beginning of the year (when healthy) then it would make sense that he should be able to play RT if he gets healthy again (coming out of bye week hopefully he'll be back to 100%). That would allow us to put Render and Welsh back in their 'natural' positions (Render LG and Welsh RG) and hopefully shore up the middle some. No matter who plays RT (Myers or Wirfs) I think we are best when we have Render at LG, Daniels at C and Welsh at RG. Just an observation. The coaches know more than we do, and I think they'll figure something out. We can still have a pretty good season, if they figure this line out and get jelling. Our defense will give us a chance to win every game left on the schedule if we can run the ball more consistently and actually connect with our open receivers over the top. We're just a couple plays from being 5-0 as it is.
I'd say go with what the coaches have decided is their best lineup until they lose again, after that there is no championship to play for so continuing to play Boone hurt will make no sense. If that happens, it will be the smartest thing to get Wirfs experience above all other concerns. I would play Render at LG, and move Welsh back to RG. Jackson and Daniels need to stay where they are.
I already played that gimmick. And no Steinbach? What's wrong with you?
That time a week before the season started where I raised grave concerns about the OL and was incessantly called a troll...
"Plenty of accusations of my being being a troll, plenty of chatter of the aforementioned superlatives, which hate to tell you, mean nothing. A few mentions of James' young age, which sounds more like an excuse as opposed to a rebuttal of my critique. And I was aware of his age btw but it wouldn't come as a surprise because he played like an 18/19 yr old in the B1G last year. He played like a lineman who lived off of being bigger/stronger than everybody in HS and is now matched against people who are up to the challenge. Someone asked about my credentials and what qualifies me to judge this player but let's be honest, if I told you would that make you agree with me? Probably not. Besides, the worlds biggest fool can say that the sun isn't shining but that doesn't make it dark out. My personal favorite was someone posting a single play from a highlight segment where Jame's looked good and used that to conclude that I'm wrong. To that I'll say, there's a reason scouts watch game film and not highlight reels, ya know? I never said the guy never had any good plays. Lastly, I fully acknowledge that coming in to IC and playing OL as a true freshmen is an unbelievable achievement. Very very few are able to even get an attempt at pulling it off. However that in and of itself could just as easily be seen as an indictment of the depth at the position than it could be a credit to James. In in of itself, that means very little.
That said, great, the Hawkeye OL won an award for best in the country last year. Congratulations. It's a great honor and it pleases me that Iowa received this recognition. But let's be real here, there is no flippin way they were the best OL in the country. Hell, even B. Ferentz himself said that the OL "struggled" at pass pro last year. Which you know, is a point I raised in the OP. The best OL in the country doesn't struggle at pass protection. The best OL in the country doesn't struggle at anything.
I noticed in another thread talking about where the Hawks ranked in rushing and after learning that Iowa was 49th-67th in the nation (depending on how you calculate it) everyone seemed to be in disbelief. But you're not in disbelief, you're in denial. And when you really start peeling back the layers it gets even worse...Iowa offense ranked 72 in total yards, 89th in passing, 54th in scoring, 67th in sacks allowed- 30 SACKS last year, for a team that rarely throws it. And 81 TFL!! Oh and btw, part of the reason the rushing ranking is sub par is BECAUSE of the TFL. Somebody please explain to me how the best OL in the country gives up 6 TFL per game.
Somehow the vaunted Iowa OL managed to achieve these abysmal results all the while having what appears to be an NFL capable QB,TE, 2 RB's and maybe a WR too. I've always said, when you have great skill players and you're mysteriously horrible on offense it's almost always due to poor OL play. Something is amiss here, and it doesn't take a troll to point it out."
"Plenty of accusations of my being being a troll, plenty of chatter of the aforementioned superlatives, which hate to tell you, mean nothing. A few mentions of James' young age, which sounds more like an excuse as opposed to a rebuttal of my critique. And I was aware of his age btw but it wouldn't come as a surprise because he played like an 18/19 yr old in the B1G last year. He played like a lineman who lived off of being bigger/stronger than everybody in HS and is now matched against people who are up to the challenge. Someone asked about my credentials and what qualifies me to judge this player but let's be honest, if I told you would that make you agree with me? Probably not. Besides, the worlds biggest fool can say that the sun isn't shining but that doesn't make it dark out. My personal favorite was someone posting a single play from a highlight segment where Jame's looked good and used that to conclude that I'm wrong. To that I'll say, there's a reason scouts watch game film and not highlight reels, ya know? I never said the guy never had any good plays. Lastly, I fully acknowledge that coming in to IC and playing OL as a true freshmen is an unbelievable achievement. Very very few are able to even get an attempt at pulling it off. However that in and of itself could just as easily be seen as an indictment of the depth at the position than it could be a credit to James. In in of itself, that means very little.
That said, great, the Hawkeye OL won an award for best in the country last year. Congratulations. It's a great honor and it pleases me that Iowa received this recognition. But let's be real here, there is no flippin way they were the best OL in the country. Hell, even B. Ferentz himself said that the OL "struggled" at pass pro last year. Which you know, is a point I raised in the OP. The best OL in the country doesn't struggle at pass protection. The best OL in the country doesn't struggle at anything.
I noticed in another thread talking about where the Hawks ranked in rushing and after learning that Iowa was 49th-67th in the nation (depending on how you calculate it) everyone seemed to be in disbelief. But you're not in disbelief, you're in denial. And when you really start peeling back the layers it gets even worse...Iowa offense ranked 72 in total yards, 89th in passing, 54th in scoring, 67th in sacks allowed- 30 SACKS last year, for a team that rarely throws it. And 81 TFL!! Oh and btw, part of the reason the rushing ranking is sub par is BECAUSE of the TFL. Somebody please explain to me how the best OL in the country gives up 6 TFL per game.
Somehow the vaunted Iowa OL managed to achieve these abysmal results all the while having what appears to be an NFL capable QB,TE, 2 RB's and maybe a WR too. I've always said, when you have great skill players and you're mysteriously horrible on offense it's almost always due to poor OL play. Something is amiss here, and it doesn't take a troll to point it out."
Also, I was still waiting on a citation for these purported NFL scouts that are "gushing" over James Daniels. Is that like an actual thing or just a rumor that's being constantly repeated?
The ideal Oline would be the same 5 guys that could play together for a few games in a row that what Iowa use to have so many injuries anymore for some reason the unit can't get together
