ADVERTISEMENT

If there is never a vaccine...

“The decision not to test asymptomatic people is just really backward,” said Dr. Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, referring to the CDC recommendation.
The most widely used diagnostic test for the new coronavirus, called a PCR test, provides a simple yes-no answer to the question of whether a patient is infected.

But similar PCR tests for other viruses do offer some sense of how contagious an infected patient may be: The results may include a rough estimate of the amount of virus in the patient’s body.

“We’ve been using one type of data for everything, and that is just plus or minus — that’s all,” Mina said. “We’re using that for clinical diagnostics, for public health, for policy decision-making.”

But yes-no isn’t good enough, he added. It’s the amount of virus that should dictate the infected patient’s next steps. “It’s really irresponsible, I think, to forgo the recognition that this is a quantitative issue,” Mina said.

The PCR test amplifies genetic matter from the virus in cycles; the fewer cycles required, the greater the amount of virus, or viral load, in the sample. The greater the viral load, the more likely the patient is to be contagious.

This number of amplification cycles needed to find the virus, called the cycle threshold, is never included in the results sent to doctors and coronavirus patients, although it could tell them how infectious the patients are.

In three sets of testing data that include cycle thresholds, compiled by officials in Massachusetts, New York and Nevada, up to 90% of people testing positive carried barely any virus, a review by The New York Times found.

On Thursday, the United States recorded 45,604 new coronavirus cases, according to a database maintained by The Times. If the rates of contagiousness in Massachusetts and New York were to apply nationwide, then perhaps only 4,500 of those people may actually need to isolate and submit to contact tracing.

One solution would be to adjust the cycle threshold used to decide that a patient is infected. Most tests set the limit at 40, a few at 37. This means that you are positive for coronavirus if the test process required up to 40 cycles, or 37, to detect the virus.

Tests with thresholds so high may detect not just live virus but also genetic fragments, leftovers from infection that pose no particular risk — akin to finding a hair in a room long after a person has left, Mina said.

Any test with a cycle threshold above 35 is too sensitive, agreed Juliet Morrison, a virologist at the University of California, Riverside. “I’m shocked that people would think that 40 could represent a positive,” she said.

A more reasonable cutoff would be 30 to 35, she added. Mina said he would set the figure at 30, or even less. Those changes would mean the amount of genetic material in a patient’s sample would have to be 100-fold to 1,000-fold that of the current standard for the test to return a positive result.
 
  • Like
Reactions: haw-key
What's been rather interesting through this entire year as events have gotten cancelled, is every organizer is so sure their events will be taking place in 2021. They all say "see you in 2021!" What makes them so sure? It's not like something has come along to change the situation. That's never made any sense to me. Or are they just being optimistic?

Now part of me thinks those events WILL have to start taking place again so we don't all lose our sanity! Another year of this and I'm afraid people will start to go nuts.
 
I don't get the worry.

Trump said there will be a vaccine by the end of the year, "probably a lot sooner."

Fauci said that there will be a vaccine "in a few months."

One will be announced before the election, and people will be getting shots by Thanksgiving.
"shots by thanksgiving" You're kidding?, right?
 
Will we just continue living in fear forever? Can somebody please have a rational thought on this damn thing.

Test the kids daily.
Create an athletic bubble.
Accept that there will be infections - just as there would be if they don’t play.
Play ball.
Derp
 
"shots by thanksgiving" You're kidding?, right?

Some folks are oblivious as to how "clinical trials" timelines work.....let alone "distribution networks".

As an FYI for folks, 30k recruits are needed for EACH vaccine trial, and the info I've read indicates they need a minimum of 3 months followup to assess efficacy (15k vaccinated/15k controls to compare). The traditional requirement is a minimum of 3000 vaccinated people followed up for 1 year for safety, as well (that will most certainly be bypassed, but they will want at least 3 months of 3000 followed for safety evaluation since a year isn't practical for these vaccines).

That means IF we were to start distributing before December, then SOME of the vaccination trials would need 100% recruitment as of 8/31. So far as I'm aware, most are still recruiting, so you can push that date back 3 months past the "last trial recruit" for any of the trials. We COULD see one finished before the end of 2020, but more than likely it will be December before results are analyzed and available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: radicalhawk
What's been rather interesting through this entire year as events have gotten cancelled, is every organizer is so sure their events will be taking place in 2021. They all say "see you in 2021!" What makes them so sure? It's not like something has come along to change the situation. That's never made any sense to me. Or are they just being optimistic?

Now part of me thinks those events WILL have to start taking place again so we don't all lose our sanity! Another year of this and I'm afraid people will start to go nuts.
There will be the opportunity to get vaccinated in 2021.
 
There will be the opportunity to get vaccinated in 2021.

Indeed; reasonably likely several options will be rolled out and availabile to the general public by late Q1. I expect the priority folks and healthcare providers to start getting them by or before January.
 
  • Like
Reactions: naturalmwa
No it’s not. There’s already a vaccine.

There are vaccines in trials. Those cannot be considered “vaccines”. And additionally, you are assuming the thing doesn’t mutate like the flu (and other coronavirus’) does every year.

So again....what if there is never a vaccine. Live in fear forever?
 
So again....what if there is never a vaccine. Live in fear forever?

No; you work on effective medications to limit the damage Covid does; and there are about 50 currently being tested, with more in the works. When you identify medications that eliminate the most severe cases and side effects, then it is more like the flu.
 
Will the virus ever go away? Almost certainly not.

Will a vaccine keep you from getting the virus? Doubtful. Flu shots are hit-and-miss, the Covid shots will be, too.

Play ball!
Getting a flu shot provides some cross immunity to different strains of the flu even if it mutates. If you do happen to get the flu, then you have a good chance of having a less severe case of it, or having no symptoms at all. That's why it is a good idea to get the flu shot every year. Typically the longer a virus goes the less lethal it will become. The virus wants to stay alive and spread, therefore it needs its host to stay alive or it won't be able to spread. So they typically weaken, possible become more infectious, but less lethal.
 
You realize some people have to retest and get two negative tests for them to come back to their place of employment? So when 40 causes a false positive for a totally non-infectious person (see UK chart) then it becomes a revenue stream. If 30 ct shows negative for said employee then testing ends. Does a deceased cancer victim with a 40 ct positive test (with no infectious viral load) count as a covid death? Your assurance that UIHC doesn't use 40 ct positive tests doesn't mean anything without documentation verifying such. Thanks.
Oh I realize this, and it is unfortunate, but what percentage of positives is this really? I certainly don’t pretend to know. Also It’s not just work it’s rehab facilities, nursing homes, etc. Reality is most folks just have to quarantine if they are lucky. If I test positive at UIHC then I get to go back after my 10 days of quarantine. Why? Because I am deemed not infectious at that point.
With a qualitative test if the sample passed the threshold at the cutoff Ct best practice is to repeat extraction and repeat in duplicate. Then go with best 2 out of 3. Again if your assay runs for 40 cycles and you report at 40 that is poor practice. You determine your LOD and typically step back a few cycles for your cut-off Ct. Also you do realize that most of these assays are multiplexed? Three conserved targets on the COVID-19 genome plus a house keeping gene for the ThermoFisher assay. So in that one test the 3 conserved targets have to be positive to call the patient positive.
In regards to the hypothetical cancer patient did they die from cancer or COVID? For clarification when a pathologist provides "other significant conditions" (what they refer to as "OSCs" -- generally pre-existing conditions or comorbidities) in an autopsy report, they do NOT outweigh the main cause of death. If they say the cause of death is COVID, they mean THE CAUSE OF DEATH IS COVID, regardless of the OSCs. This fact has been manipulated concerning COVID death statistics lately and apparently needs to continue to be restated.
Lastly would you have unprotected sex with someone who had a HIV qualitative test with a Ct of 40?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Suterman
mass%20hysteria%20-%20No%20Vaccine.jpg
That's what the Chinese are up to. They are injecting folks left and right with vaccines that have not been fully vetted.
 
You realize some people have to retest and get two negative tests for them to come back to their place of employment? So when 40 causes a false positive for a totally non-infectious person (see UK chart) then it becomes a revenue stream. If 30 ct shows negative for said employee then testing ends. Does a deceased cancer victim with a 40 ct positive test (with no infectious viral load) count as a covid death? Your assurance that UIHC doesn't use 40 ct positive tests doesn't mean anything without documentation verifying such. Thanks.
TaqPath Combo Kit procedure

See page 73 table 14 for Ct cutoffs for clinical specimen. Feel free to peruse the whole thing to educate yourself.
And yes this is the assay UIHC uses and strictly follows.
 
Why? So you're telling me the COVID virus is the flu? What good does a flu shot do for COVID?
There have been studies and reports about it helping with the immune system to lesson symptoms, or limit them. I read it a while ago, if it was from twitter it is probably legit
 
You realize some people have to retest and get two negative tests for them to come back to their place of employment? So when 40 causes a false positive for a totally non-infectious person (see UK chart) then it becomes a revenue stream. If 30 ct shows negative for said employee then testing ends. Does a deceased cancer victim with a 40 ct positive test (with no infectious viral load) count as a covid death? Your assurance that UIHC doesn't use 40 ct positive tests doesn't mean anything without documentation verifying such. Thanks.

That is messed up. Not sure why a negative test would not be enough to go back
 
Most of the leading companies producing the vaccines are saying the first of the year.

That fits the expected timeline of finishing recruitment this month (Sept) for their 30,000 participants, tracked until early December. Then, data analysis by ~Christmas and fast approval on adequate data metrics before 2021.

Now, if they got all their recruits for vaccine trials in August, they'd have final data by around the election, a week or so of data/report finalization and approved vaccines a few weeks earlier. But when the followup needs to be 3 months, that's tied to the LAST person you give a vaccine or placebo to. It'd be nice if they'd announce the week that occurs in their trials, so that there's some visibility as to when the followup should be completed for final approval.

Bear in mind, that there's literally nothing the Trump administration (or any administration) can do for approving these studies before the trials are finished. They cannot approve any vaccine before the vaccine data are submitted. And if all the vaccine makers have insisted they will not submit UNTIL they have those completed data, there's no vaccines for FDA to approve.
 
One of the big drug companies just stated today they will know and announce by end of October whether the vaccine developed is effective and safe. Thought it was Pfizer but I could be wrong. One of the big ones.
 
Most of the leading companies producing the vaccines are saying the first of the year.

End of October will know. Then they need FDA authorization, but they will be cranking already on manufacture at that point. If FDA issues emergency use authorization then the most needy could start getting it, voluntarily of course. But the average younger healthy person probably won't be able to get in line until Feb or March of 2021 yes.
 
Is “never having a vaccine” a rational thought?
"SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome) coronaviruses that emerged in 2002/2003 and 2012, respectively. As of April 2020, no vaccine is commercially available for these coronavirus strains "

It's been two decades and one decade respectively, and no vaccine, very rational
 
I don't get the worry.

Trump said there will be a vaccine by the end of the year, "probably a lot sooner."

Fauci said that there will be a vaccine "in a few months."

One will be announced before the election, and people will be getting shots by Thanksgiving.

Thank you Sit .

However there are major libby radicals out there (like Mitchy) who hope and pray there isn't to support their political hate train agenda.

We will have one (or better yet viable therapuetics) at some point . Hopefully this year.

In the meantime gotta roll with what we have. Wear the fkn mask in the grocery store and Menards etc. Keep the distance. Etc.
 
"SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) and MERS (Middle East respiratory syndrome) coronaviruses that emerged in 2002/2003 and 2012, respectively. As of April 2020, no vaccine is commercially available for these coronavirus strains "

It's been two decades and one decade respectively, and no vaccine, very rational

LOLWUT?
Both the early 2000s viruses were contained and fizzled out before vaccines could be tested.
Companies quit working on them, because the market disappeared.
 
However there are major libby radicals out there (like Mitchy) who hope and pray there isn't to support their political hate train agenda.

Huh?

There are at least 8 candidate vaccines in testing. We'd have to go 0-for-8 for none to be available within a few months. There won't be a billion doses available, but there will be some.
 
This virus is going to be around forever. When found and tested, a vaccine will help people from getting the disease and if they do get it, it may be less severe. I have been getting flu shots since they were 1st offered and they have worked perfectly for me. I know that is not true for everyone. I will require a vaccine at least as successful as the flu vaccines before I go back into large crowds and crowded restaurants. I trust vaccines that have gone through all the trials. I would never take one that hadn't gone through all phases. I am 68 years old with a few risk factors and I am going to remain careful. To me that is not living in fear, it is being smart.
 
What's been rather interesting through this entire year as events have gotten cancelled, is every organizer is so sure their events will be taking place in 2021. They all say "see you in 2021!" What makes them so sure? It's not like something has come along to change the situation.

Other than a big date at the beginning of November....
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT