I'm not sold on the "Raider" package

[DutchyFunStar]

Now I haven't gone back to the tape and broken down how many different combinations of people we've sent from the stand up formation and how many each combo has brought pressure. I know the QB is probably looking to a hot target because he knows a blitz/stunt is coming from somewhere but it just seems like the stand up formation hurts the pass rushers from a leverage point of view and the push hasn't been wildly successful.

I like that we are trying new things but I'm not sure this is a success. Anyone agree or does anyone have stats to support the package?

 

[jerbob36]

Agree with you. I was okay with it last year because it was at least something different, but I'm not seeing the advantages of it yet.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I just don't think they do enough zone and twist stunts out of it.

 

[bagdropper]

It's about not being predictable in looks.

And considering how people here rail on Iowa being to predictable...to me, if they're still using it, the results must be positive.

Or, they can come out in cover 4 like they do on all the rest of the plays and we can bitch about that some more.

 

[DutchyFunStar]

I'm sure out of the Raider look they have brought 3,4,5, and even 6. So it is unpredictable and forces the QB to make quick decisions and quick decisions are not necessarily best.

 

[Teenage Dirtbag]

The No. 1 goal of it is to keep the QB in the pocket, not let him roll out and extend the play, and make a quick throw from between the tackles. This almost always happens. Fans are thinking if we don't sack him it is a failure. Totally not the deal.

 

[garberhawkeye]

The No. 1 goal of it is to keep the QB in the pocket, not let him roll out and extend the play, and make a quick throw from between the tackles. This almost always happens. Fans are thinking if we don't sack him it is a failure. Totally not the deal.

It makes it more difficult for the center to identify the "Mike" linebacker therefore makes it harder to call out protection schemes pre-snap.

 

[Bearhawk0505]

Last year we over blitzed out of it. This year we are not blitzing as much out of it. I like it as it gets an extra CB on the field, and as someone earlier wrote it helps prevent long QB scrambles. We probably beat the T Pryor led OSU team at Kinnick if we had that package in place that season.

 

[ichawk24]

http://www.thegazette.com/subject/sports/stat-pak-beautiful-ugly-20151005

Raider specifics — I know I kind of covered this yesterday, but I really watched the game and here are some obs:

— I had Iowa running it 11 times.

— Mostly the three defensive ends in the package (Meier, Drew Ott and Parker Hesse) rushed. Sometimes, it was just the three of them.

— Linebackers Jewell and Ben Niemann kind of hung back. It looked like Jewell was assigned to the running back, covering if he came out of the backfield, and Niemann spied the QB.

— Niemann blitzed after he determined the QB was in throw mode. Jewell blitzed if the RB was in pass pro.

— Fisher blitzed a few times. He and Niemann shared a sack on third-and-13 from Iowa's 37. Could Rafael Gaglianone have made 54-yard field goal? That sack made it a 57-yarder (wind to the back, too). In other words, the sack took the field goal out of play. This was the Badgers' penultimate drive. No points made the final drive all-or-nothing TD drive.

— The Raider allows DC Phil Parker to play zone or man in the secondary. It also is conscious of the run and just creates chaos as far as protections. You always see centers pointing out the middle linebacker just to set the math for the play. The OL can't really do that.

The Raider isn't unbeatable, but it did work against Stave and the Badgers.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Geez, after the ending of this game you are questioning it, in general?

Yikes, fans are fun.

 

[SotaHawk87]

I thought it worked great!! Would love to see percentages..

 

[BioHawk]

I have no idea what the "Raider" package is, but it seems like it's something to do with the defense. The defense has been pretty solid so far this year so I can't say I have any complaints, but I'm sure if Iowa starts giving up a lot of points it'll be easy enough for me to find some rage against it.

 

[CuttyDoesIt]

I would much rather watch a OLB cover a slot receiver

 

[whatsup12579er]

I think they sent King on a blitz on one of the Raider packages and Wisc converted the 3rd down. I remember being very upset that we blitzed our best cover guy in an obvious passing situation. Send Fleming/Taylor/Draper/Johnson not King.

 

[RocknRollface]

I haven't been thrilled with it as it has not produced much pressure but there are some solid points being made in favor of it here.

 

[Cubhawk1]

I haven't been thrilled with it as it has not produced much pressure but there are some solid points being made in favor of it here.

I have mixed feelings on it too.. The thing I do notice is it always happens on third down and usually 3rd and long. It might be cool to pop up and do it unexpectedly on first or second down. it may confuse QB or cause a timeout. Just a thought?..? Not a complaint about the D

 

[pharmdfd]

Not a fan. Seems like we delay our rush as the defenders are off the LOS and don't react as quickly on the snap. I'd prefer what Seattle does having LB's standing in A gaps and either blitzing or dropping into coverage.

 

[herk90]

I think they sent King on a blitz on one of the Raider packages and Wisc converted the 3rd down. I remember being very upset that we blitzed our best cover guy in an obvious passing situation. Send Fleming/Taylor/Draper/Johnson not King.

wisky wouldn't be expecting King to blitz. That is why you do it every once in awhile.

 

[sloehawk]

wisky wouldn't be expecting King to blitz. That is why you do it every once in awhile.

Not to mention the guy has a knack for making plays. Such as sacking a QB on a blitz. He is without question our best cover guy, he's also our best play-maker, wherever you line him up, whatever you ask him to do. Flat out Baller.

 

[dbq hawk 32]

I have mixed feelings on it too.. The thing I do notice is it always happens on third down and usually 3rd and long. It might be cool to pop up and do it unexpectedly on first or second down. it may confuse QB or cause a timeout. Just a thought?..? Not a complaint about the D

They'd just check to a run...
It only really works on obvious pass downs.

 

[OmahaHawkFan]

I have mixed feelings on it too.. The thing I do notice is it always happens on third down and usually 3rd and long. It might be cool to pop up and do it unexpectedly on first or second down. it may confuse QB or cause a timeout. Just a thought?..? Not a complaint about the D

That is the point. They only use it on third and long to force short throw. Man, really? You want no down linemen on a potential running down? Yeah, lets pull Jaleen Johnson who fills two gaps on 2 and 4 play. That makes sense. But hey, at least it would be different. And Kirk sucks so different must be good.

 

[Cubhawk1]

That is the point. They only use it on third and long to force short throw. Man, really? You want no down linemen on a potential running down? Yeah, lets pull Jaleen Johnson who fills two gaps on 2 and 4 play. That makes sense. But hey, at least it would be different. And Kirk sucks so different must be good.

WOW Omaha.! I understand the concept of the package. And I realize you don t walk up to the line with 25 seconds left and stand there in the raider package. That is why I said "pop up" , Like after the offense comes up, and just try to confuse. Sorry you had to correct my ignorance.

 

[HawkLogic]

Not a fan. Seems like we delay our rush as the defenders are off the LOS and don't react as quickly on the snap. I'd prefer what Seattle does having LB's standing in A gaps and either blitzing or dropping into coverage.

I think the Raider package was really effective the year we had 3 great senior LBs and Spearman came in as a Rush DE....It still is much more effective than what we used to do...i.e. nothing. At least we are getting more speed on the field,

 

[smallcenter]

WOW Omaha.! I understand the concept of the package. And I realize you don t walk up to the line with 25 seconds left and stand there in the raider package. That is why I said "pop up" , Like after the offense comes up, and just try to confuse. Sorry you had to correct my ignorance.

It's not as simple as an offense coming to the line in one formation and then shifting to another. Regardless of if they changed or not, if there is a run called, you are d!cked. The Raider package is for plays that have a high percentage of predictability...and the prediction is pass. It was nailed on the head by teenagedirtbag. Keep the QB in the pocket and force a quick throw. This gives the best coverage angles, takes away the explosive (20+ yard) play, and forces a throw that, if completed, has a high probability of forcing a tackle before the receiver get too far down field. If the down and distance is 3rd and 9 and we force a 5 yard throw...obviously the math looks good for the Hawks.

First and second downs are not nearly as predictable...ergo, getting caught in a pass defense and they run a power or zone stretch play could be disastrous.

 

[hawkssox1]

Now I haven't gone back to the tape and broken down how many different combinations of people we've sent from the stand up formation and how many each combo has brought pressure. I know the QB is probably looking to a hot target because he knows a blitz/stunt is coming from somewhere but it just seems like the stand up formation hurts the pass rushers from a leverage point of view and the push hasn't been wildly successful.

I like that we are trying new things but I'm not sure this is a success. Anyone agree or does anyone have stats to support the package?

Do you analyze your tax returns this closely?

 

[Titanhawk2]

I have no idea what the "Raider" package is, but it seems like it's something to do with the defense. The defense has been pretty solid so far this year so I can't say I have any complaints, but I'm sure if Iowa starts giving up a lot of points it'll be easy enough for me to find some rage against it.

It's when none of the lineman go down in their stance, you basically have 7-8 guys standing up, moving around until the snap. That keeps linemen from identifying who to block and keeps the QB for identifying who might be covering certain receivers.

 

[Besthawkfan]

Wisconsin did not convert a lot of third downs because of it. I cant believe its in question.

 

[dbldown]

In the 1H they ran a zone blitz out of it dropping Ott into coverage. That was new and a nice twist. WI did complete the first down on a pass to Wheelwright w/ King in coverage if I remember correctly.

 

[Vroom_C14]

I think we need to blitz a little more on sure passing downs. Too much time for QBs\WRs to find gaps in zones.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I think the raider package works well with running qb's (which Iowa has always struggled against). It's hard for the oline to block when they aren't sure where the qb will be. With pocket passers the raider package isn't quite as effective because the lineman have an easier time keeping their backs to the qb. That's why I think if you use the raider package against a pocket passer you need to twist and zone blitz to mix up responsibilities of the oline.

 

[DutchyFunStar]

You guys have sold me. I'm a fan of the Raider package. While it isn't necessarily creating a superior pass rush it seems to collapse the traditional pocket and force quicker decisions and throws.