IMar to 165 official
- Thread starter Jay on HR
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I agree, but we'll see soon (universities) how IMAR does close to that weight. I'm going to assume that Bo Jordan goes back to 74, so now Big 10s look tough at this weight. Kemerer is podium bound, high finish with this move...The Bull just needs to show what he's got, all the confidence in the world with him, my God does the season start next week???!!!!
I guess I wasn't sure if Bo was for sure going up. Obviously I want Alex to be successful but dang man if Bo isn't moving up there are some really good guys retuning at this weight.
Bojo moving up for sure.
I haven't heard anything about Zeke. I'm assuming he'll stay at 65. He started at 57. Him and imar should have plenty of battles next year.
I haven't heard anything about Zeke. I'm assuming he'll stay at 65. He started at 57. Him and imar should have plenty of battles next year.
Yep, only one of those guys scares me. The next guy is always coming and Marinelli is going to be mentioned in the same breath as those wrestlers sooner than later
Man! 21 Guns was right...
I think a lot of us underestimate Isaac Jordan. I think he's bigger and stronger than IMar and should be considered the favorite at 165.
I think a lot of us underestimate Isaac Jordan. I think he's bigger and stronger than IMar and should be considered the favorite at 165.
That is shaping up to be a tough weight. Holding the Bull out until seeing him at Midlands makes sense.
I do think dice poses a fair question. 165 is a lot different from last year. It is not going to be a cakewalk making the podium. It is going to take a really strong showing from Marinelli at Midlands to warrant pulling his shirt.
Hopefully we can get ill, ASU and Wisc at Midlands.
Hopefully we can get ill, ASU and Wisc at Midlands.
With what Iowa has coming back, next year (2017) is going to be pretty solid, for sure better that 2018. I can see the shirt being pulled after Midlands, if Alex is progressing as hoped, and then see a RS the following year (2018), to maximize his time with the next two classes, which so far looks good especially if we can get a few solid upper weights with Teasdale's class.
There is no good reason I can think of that warrants redshirting guys next year. It is Iowa's best chance until 2019. With the graduations you guys will have next year, 2018 will be a reset year. No reason to have studs coming off redshirt in a reset year.
100% agree with this. The days of red shirt "business as usual" need to be re-evaluated at Iowa (IMO). What PSU did two years ago and what Ryan did at fOSU this year were strategic and paid off, even though fOSU didn't win it, it was a shot they had to take.
But then again, I am not the head coach of anything, so it's an easy call for me to make.
But the head coach is not here on the message boards, so we are left to pontificate on our own, which we will do...damn it.
And I agree with your assessment. Do whatever maximizes the odds of winning NCAA titles. Hard to disagree with that philosophy.
I think you do what is best for the kid.
If that means pulling a redshirt to win a title, then fine. If it means leaving him in redshirt, because he is not capable of placing, then that is what you do.
I think the Bull needs to get a few matches under his belt, before anyone decides what to do with his redshirt.
If that means pulling a redshirt to win a title, then fine. If it means leaving him in redshirt, because he is not capable of placing, then that is what you do.
I think the Bull needs to get a few matches under his belt, before anyone decides what to do with his redshirt.
I agree that if he isn't good enough to place, it isn't worth burning a shirt.
"165 was a shallow weight last year... [insert name here] ...could have easily been an All American"
Flash forward to 2017...
IMAR is a two timer already, trying to join the rarefied air of the 4 timer club.
Bo Jordan beat IMAR last time they wrestled, but that was a while ago. Valencia also beat IMAR last time they wrestled, although that was in Freestyle.
Valencia looks like he is going to be at this weight and will make an impact. The extent of which is up for debate. One thing I will say is the Valencia's tend to show up when the bright lights are on.
While no one (Bo Jordan, Tom Ryan, or tOSU) have confirmed yet that Bo is moving up to 174. I would be pretty surprised to see him stay at 165. The only reason I hesitate to say he is for sure moving up is because Bo Jordan has now said multiple times, after the season mind you, that making 165 was not an issue what so ever (Micah Jordan on the other hand is for sure moving up, as his comments have been quite different).
The PSU faithful think Joesph is a 4 timer, just like Retherford, Nolf, Nickal, Taylor, McIntosh (if he didn't sacrifice for the team and go 197, instead of 184, where he was clearly the best wrestler in the country), Nevills (if he didn't get hurt, Synder had no chance) and Megaludis (If Jesse Delgado wasn't Gumby).
The Michigan Fans (all 20 of them) and the much more credible Olympian Andy Hrovat legitimately think Massa is a true contender as a redshirt Freshmen. They have some evidence to support this train of thought.
Add them to the some of the proven studs from the weight class... NCAA Runner Up Issac Jordan and NCAA 4th Daniel Lewis.
All Issac Jordan and Daniel Lewis do is beat guys that are bigger and better recruits. Quietly, with next to no hype.
Then you have the three pound for pound best/highest rated incoming true Freshmen in the country posed to come into this weight... Mark Hall, Isiah White and Alex "the Bull" Marinelli.
Mark Hall looks like he is not going to be competing this year, but he does already have some scalps from some of the names mentioned here.
Marinelli being the "most college ready" prospect according to numerous pundits and a can't miss recruit.
Isiah White being an athletic dynamo, who already has some wins over these elite guys.
Plus...
Freshmen stud, and NCAA 6th, VT's McFadden.
The lengthy resume of N.C. State's Max Rohskopf. 5th seed at NCAA's
Grizzled veteran from Purdue, Senior Chad Welch.
And the enigma that is Northern Iowa's Cooper Moore.
I'd says 165 went from one of the shallower weights a year ago, to being perhaps the most interesting weight class in the entire country.
Flash forward to 2017...
IMAR is a two timer already, trying to join the rarefied air of the 4 timer club.
Bo Jordan beat IMAR last time they wrestled, but that was a while ago. Valencia also beat IMAR last time they wrestled, although that was in Freestyle.
Valencia looks like he is going to be at this weight and will make an impact. The extent of which is up for debate. One thing I will say is the Valencia's tend to show up when the bright lights are on.
While no one (Bo Jordan, Tom Ryan, or tOSU) have confirmed yet that Bo is moving up to 174. I would be pretty surprised to see him stay at 165. The only reason I hesitate to say he is for sure moving up is because Bo Jordan has now said multiple times, after the season mind you, that making 165 was not an issue what so ever (Micah Jordan on the other hand is for sure moving up, as his comments have been quite different).
The PSU faithful think Joesph is a 4 timer, just like Retherford, Nolf, Nickal, Taylor, McIntosh (if he didn't sacrifice for the team and go 197, instead of 184, where he was clearly the best wrestler in the country), Nevills (if he didn't get hurt, Synder had no chance) and Megaludis (If Jesse Delgado wasn't Gumby).
The Michigan Fans (all 20 of them) and the much more credible Olympian Andy Hrovat legitimately think Massa is a true contender as a redshirt Freshmen. They have some evidence to support this train of thought.
Add them to the some of the proven studs from the weight class... NCAA Runner Up Issac Jordan and NCAA 4th Daniel Lewis.
All Issac Jordan and Daniel Lewis do is beat guys that are bigger and better recruits. Quietly, with next to no hype.
Then you have the three pound for pound best/highest rated incoming true Freshmen in the country posed to come into this weight... Mark Hall, Isiah White and Alex "the Bull" Marinelli.
Mark Hall looks like he is not going to be competing this year, but he does already have some scalps from some of the names mentioned here.
Marinelli being the "most college ready" prospect according to numerous pundits and a can't miss recruit.
Isiah White being an athletic dynamo, who already has some wins over these elite guys.
Plus...
Freshmen stud, and NCAA 6th, VT's McFadden.
The lengthy resume of N.C. State's Max Rohskopf. 5th seed at NCAA's
Grizzled veteran from Purdue, Senior Chad Welch.
And the enigma that is Northern Iowa's Cooper Moore.
I'd says 165 went from one of the shallower weights a year ago, to being perhaps the most interesting weight class in the entire country.
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There's an interview flo did at ncaas with Bo and it went something like...how has the cut to 65 been...."it sucks bad." I'm sure it's still out there.
A lot of people will disagree on this board because we are not putting the best team forward. We can still have a decent team but I think we should go balls out this year, sit a bunch in 2017-2018 and be prepped to be back in it in 2019:
125-Lee
133-Meija, Wags, Teasdale
141-Renteria, Teasdale
149-Happel, Turk
157-Kemmerer
165-Marinelli
174-Young,????
184-Wilce,???
197-Holloway, ???
HWY-Stoll,Bear
Don't get me wrong I believe he is going up to 174 and I remember him saying that in aftermath of his loss to his cousin Issac. However, he has said lately that the weight cut wasn't a big deal and he knew how to handle it.
Again, that said, I am firmly in the camp that believes he is moving up to 174.
Not sure why such a good, well informed post had to have that paragraph in it. I don't know of anyone predicting Joseph to win this year, let alone be a four timer. I would be thrilled if Joseph were wrestling for 3rd this year, but wouldn't be surprised or disappointed if he was low AA or rd 12 either. McIntosh DID sacrifice for the team by going 197 as a true freshman. To me, he was alwats too short for 197. Again, no one ever thought he'd be a four timer. And I don't even know what to say about your Nevills comment.
Unless of course you're getting your news from 21Guns. I have him on ignore and he is a 'colorful' poster to be sure. He probably has all ten guys in the finals.
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I've always believed that you have to get your nose wet sooner or later and when it comes down to it I think later makes more sense.
I used to think that all freshmen should be redshirted because a year of maturing on a college mat and in the weight room does wonders for all of them. However, I've seen too many 5th year seniors have disappointing finishes to their careers, so am looking for a middle ground. If they are college ready come holiday tournament time, consider pulling the shirt, but only if it helps the team.
You're right. The Nevills comment went a little too far and I clearly should have blamed Delgado's National Championships on his pervasive stalling not on his insane ability to scramble. I accept responsibility for those errors.
However, the rest I have absolutely heard from a PSU fan or two. I know there are many reasonable PSU fans out there as well, but in the Sanderson Era, it is fairly common to have the large contingent of reasonable fans get overlooked because of the vocal minority of irrational fans.
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ain't that the truth! We all have our idiot fans, that's why I didn't say, "prove it". I did smile a little on the Nico comment, as many of us think Nico is a gumby with the way he can split. Gilman was the 3rd most offensive guy at nationals last year (bonus points), and the prohibitive favorite at 125 this year. He is my favorite Hawkeye wrestler, with Brooks next.
Ok PS85, I think I need a break from you, we are agreeing way too much. I know I bitch about trolls coming over here, and I try and rough them up as much as possible, but now I am beginning to wonder if I wrong all along. A PSU fan that I agree with on so many points.....I think I need to go take a shower.
Ok PS85, I think I need a break from you, we are agreeing way too much. I know I bitch about trolls coming over here, and I try and rough them up as much as possible, but now I am beginning to wonder if I wrong all along. A PSU fan that I agree with on so many points.....I think I need to go take a shower.
Careful - this is exactly how Patty Hearst found herself robbing banks back in the 1970s. Pennstate1985 is taking over our minds with his "reasonableness."
The difference between being a troll and being a good poster is remembering whose board you're on.Ok PS85, I think I need a break from you, we are agreeing way too much. I know I bitch about trolls coming over here, and I try and rough them up as much as possible, but now I am beginning to wonder if I wrong all along. A PSU fan that I agree with on so many points.....I think I need to go take a shower.
"College-ready" means so much more than just wrestling, imo anyway. Academics, being away from home "support" (mom & dad, close friends, etc.), and the temptations that go with college life. Some recruits need the redshirt year to get settled, others don't.
Who does Iowa send out if not Marinelli next season? I have heard that Paddock isn't an option anymore due to his size - is there anybody else? 165 went from a solid top 4 guys to a super deep (possibly the deepest) weight class next season. Rumor is Bo Jordan wants to stick at 165 for one more year to try and take out his cousin. If true, there really aren't many open AA spots left to grab. iMar, iJo, BoJo, Lewis, Vincenzo Joseph, Massa and Valencia are all huge studs - throw in McFadden, Marstellar (who, yes - I still think is an AA candidate at 165) and others and 165 is STACKED. Keep the shirt on and iJo, BoJo and possibly Valencia would all be gone in 2017.
Another consideration: college is expensive. For some kids, what's best is to graduate on time and with as little debt as possible.
http://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/tournament_team_score.php?id=16&type=individual
10 points is not super easy to score.
Again hopefully Midlands has ASU, Wisc, ill and maybe a couple other top guys there and we see where he stands.
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Here is the thing, you can use a redshirt at anytime over an athlete's career. Iowa's has basically used a redshirt exclusively during an athlete's Freshmen year in the Brands era. That has worked and should continue to be used. However, it shouldn't always be the route to take.
Next year Iowa will be legitimately in the the NCAA team title hunt. We have seen both Penn State and Ohio State use True Freshmen to win National Titles recently (Retherford and Synder most recently).
For this reason, I believe the Hawkeyes should start the best wrestler at every weight class next year. Hold nothing back! Sure wait until after Midlands to make the decision, but be willing to make the decision, but the best wrestler should wrestle. Whether they are likely a round of 12 guy or a for sure AA. Every point matters and upsets happen in March (especially by Freshmen).
Then, if Marinelli does wrestle his True Freshmen year, his redshirt will be available for the 2017-2018 in which, I hate to break it to everyone, but Iowa will not be competing for a National Title. Ohio State doesn't have a single Senior next season and Penn State will only have one who is a 2nd or 3rd tier point scorer for them in Guilbon. Meanwhile, Iowa is losing two big time scorers in Clark and Gilman, plus great 2nd tier scorers in Brooks and Meyer. That would be a great year to redshirt Marinelli and let someone like Moody and Gunther compete and shock some people along the way.
Then, in 2018-2019 season unleash everybody that is available again and go after another title. Ohio State and Penn State will both have individual National Champions whose eligibility will be up.
Just my thoughts... If you can't beat 'em (Cael Sanderson and Tom Ryan), Join 'em (at least strategically).
