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Indiana's creampuff schedule.... Vastly overrated

TheHawkeyeDudeAbides

TheHawkeyeDudeAbides

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Jun 7, 2009
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Talk about a team that barely plays anybody, Indiana basketball is a shadow of the Bob Knight era. Cream will have 20+ wins this season but his team will have only played one ranked Top 25 team ( @ then #7 Duke w/ Loss of 94- 74) during the nonconference season and has not played a ranked team in conference to date. Iowa is the next ranked top to play Indiana ( @ Bloomington 2/11). The Hoosiers face Iowa twice and Purdue, MSU, and Maryland only once. And to top that, Purdue and and Maryland face the Hoosiers on the road at Assembly Hall.

The "Posers" have one of the lowest RPI ( currently #49 w/ SOS around 200) and Indiana's BPI ranking is around #25 with a SOS Ranking of around 100. Of the Top 25 from a P5 conference, only Louisville has a lower SOS ( another reason to loathe Pitino). Purdue, Maryland, MSU and Iowa are all presently higher. Next B1G teams are Michigan (#45), Wisconsin(#55) and Northwestern(#62) who all are scheduled to play the "Posers" soon.

If not for Iowa's two wins over MSU, Sparty would probably be Top 5 and headed for a #1 seeding. And Maryland has not beaten a top 50 team this season, so far.

At least some of the polls regard Indiana as second tier material even if they are at the top of the conference heap. Iowa football proved its metal but Indiana looks like its ducking its top opponents. Iowa will get two shots. Hope Iowa wins both. Go Hawks.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi
 
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As much as I don't care for Indiana, and we can blame them for their nonconference schedule, it's not up to them who and where they play in the league. The schedule is a product of the Big Ten's need for more money and it's dash for the East Coast cash.

One has to wonder when the quality of the product, as in a round robin schedule, becomes important enough to give up some money?
 
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But it all kind of works out in the end. They've beaten the three worst teams on the road, but not exactly in convincing fashion. At least from RPI, IPFW is one of their top 3 wins.
 
DanL53 said:
As much as I don't care for Indiana, and we can blame them for their nonconference schedule, it's not up to them who and where they play in the league. The schedule is a product of the Big Ten's need for more money and it's dash for the East Coast cash.

One has to wonder when the quality of the product, as in a round robin schedule, becomes important enough to give up some money?
Click to expand...

It's amazing how unbalanced the BIG schedules can be. Indiana is set up for success this year. Like you said, it's not their fault, but the stars have aligned for them. At this point, they only have one RPI top 50 win.
 
They do have a much easier schedule than most, but they finish with some tough games: 2 vs Iowa, Maryland, @Mich St, @Wisc, Purdue, @Mich, and even @Ill will be a challenge for them. I am most concerned with Maryland. IMO Iowa and Maryland are in the drivers seat for the B10 title at this time.

Maryland still has @MSU, Iowa, Purdue, Wisc, Michigan, @Purdue, @Ind.

Iowa has Purdue, @Maryland, @Indiana, @Mich, @Ohio St, Indiana, @Illinois.

Honestly, it looks to me as if we have the easiest schedule of the remaining contenders; a lot of road games which are always tough, but I think this team is pretty battle tested and focused. We are the hunted now and will get everyone's best punch. Need to win these two this week and we are in pretty damn good shape with NW and PSU coming to town after the trip to Maryland.
 
srams21 said:
It's amazing how unbalanced the BIG schedules can be. Indiana is set up for success this year. Like you said, it's not their fault, but the stars have aligned for them. At this point, they only have one RPI top 50 win.
Click to expand...
You only have to look back a few months at the Iowa football schedule, and you could say the exact same things.
 
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Yeah their schedule is backloaded while ours was front loaded. If we're better, we'll certainly get the chance to show it.
 
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I haven't actually heard anyone say anything positive about them. If anything they may be underrated.
 
BubsFinn said:
You only have to look back a few months at the Iowa football schedule, and you could say the exact same things.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. Iowa FB played the top teams in the Western Div. early (and won). Indiana BB in the BiG plays the poorer record teams first.
 
Indiana is a very talented team that is ensured of an NCAA bid due to it's schedule. The last month of the B1G season, the B1G tournament, and the NCAA will eventually tell the story.

With Tom's history of being able to under achieve with superior talent and a definite lack of schedule to challenge and toughen his troops it's pretty understandable for outsiders to question how good this group is.

If the Indiana fan base is upset with the lack of respect today wait until they drop a couple of games against a normal schedule. I'll be one who enjoys it.
 
It'll all be decided in the end. Maryland will have 2 chances against top 25 teams in the next 10 days. Every team will get its chances. We can be thankful that Iowa is playing a lot of tough games now, and hope it helps us be more battle tested come tourney time, which is what every team wants to build for anyway.
 
Anyone who is ready to bash Indiana's schedule, warranted or not, is a hypocrite. Iowa football spent the entire season handling the exact same criticism so why heap that on Indiana? They play the schedule they are dealt and the results will speak for themselves when the time comes.
 
Indiana's schedule hasn't been the toughest but they are winning which is all that matters. I don't think they can sustain this though with Blackmon out.
 
While I don't believe in the BPI, Iowa and ISU have played 9 games each against top 50 bpi teams. That's more than anyone I could find scrolling through. Both hold a 6-3 record over those teams. Not much bad comes from that.
 
YouGotThatRight said:
You managed to avoid the fact that Indiana beat Notre Dame by 7, a team that beat the Hawkeyes by 6.
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You are not comparing apples with apples, but red delicious apples with green apples.

Iowa played ND in an early tournament in the second game setting one day after losing to its opening round competitor the day before. Indiana played a neutral court home state game against ND. The major differences: Bench production. ND is a 8 man rotation with the key bench difference being Matt Ryan. Ryan was hot against Iowa and his 11 points and minutes kept Iowa from coming form behind. Iowa's bench gave the Hawkeyes 1 3 pointer (Fleming) , 1 basket out of 8 shots and zero free throws. Iowa's youth were exposed and gun shy. Uhl , Wagoner and Baer have been coming on as the season has progressed. Jok and Gesell were 8 of 30 shots from the field. Both are playing better now as they are playing under 30 minute marks. Iowa was beaten at the free throw line by 4 made FTs ( ND 10 of 15, Iowa 6 of 9).

In the Indiana game, Ryan and the ND bench gave only 28 minutes of court time and only 3 points. Their starters were tired and their guard play was poor (Jackson was 4-17, 0-3 from 3, and held to 9 points in 39 minutes of floor time and Vasturia was 3-9, 0-5 from 3 and only had 7 total points). Indy's bench gave the starters 58 combined minutes of rest, shot 6 out of 14. 2-5 from 3 and produced 16 points, 13 points.more than ND's bench. Indy was 16 for 23 from the free throw line versus ND's anemic 4 for 8.

I know the old saying : " Liars can figure and figures can lie" , but Iowa played ND with just 4 games under their belts and a short turn around time period. Indy got ND after playing over 10 games into the season and with a more seasoned bench. Indy also had 3 cupcakes and over a week's time to prepare and scout ND.

Iowa versus ND Box score:

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400854118

Indiana versus ND Box score:

http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400813748
 
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True that IU got a big break from the schedule makers, but they are a very talented team. They have a lot more balance this year with the two big freshmen and the transfer from UM. They aren't ranked that high in the polls, so I wouldn't say that they are overrated. Their record in the B1G is deceiving, because it has been about as easy as it could get so far. If Iowa and IU have similar records when the seed for the dance, I think it is safe to say that the Hawks will be a higher seed.
 
YouGotThatRight said:
Ok. Great. Now I know there's no way the Hawkeyes will lose either game to that cream puff, overrated, poser Indiana team.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is saying Indiana is some gimme win for Iowa. If I were to put $ on it right now I would say split. I don't see Indiana winning at Carver on
Senior night with it being Woodbury, Uthoff, Clemmons, and Gessel's last game, but anything is possible.

Comparing the ND game is pointless from my point of view for 2 reasons: 1) the distributive property doesn't apply to athletics...just ask Stanford and Iowa FB fans. 2) Iowa is a completely different team than they were in November/early Dec. We had no bench play, Gessel looked lost, team played soft. I am guessing Michigan State looks at that box score in disbelief.
 
Indiana beat ND & the Hawks lost. Indiana can legitimately claim that as a point.

Rational fans will acknowledge that Iowa was using a non conf. game exploring line ups as shown by minutes for CW and Fleming who rarely see time today. Mike and Peter together shot 8 of 30. Of course we wanted a W and we lost.

ND is an instate rival where Indiana had Blackman as part of their line up. They got the W. A case can be made for apples and oranges.

Much as we won't be able to conclusively use the comparative scores against Rutgers (counting my chickens) to prove anything (even though the timeliness of the games is more current), until the teams meet none of us know. I do like the Hawkeye argument, but it will boil down match ups.
 
YouGotThatRight said:
Ok. Great. Now I know there's no way the Hawkeyes will lose either game to that cream puff, overrated, poser Indiana team.
Click to expand...

Once again, you have misused my words. I called Indiana overrated by its AP coaches polling which is the most frequently used rating. BPI, RPI and ESPN / Lundari polls have Indiana valued at only Top 25 to 50. More realistic.

I called Indiana's to date schedule a creampuff, not the team. I did rename the Hooisers as Posers as they sit at the top of the conference but have omly faced one of the top half (tOSU) of the conference leading BB programs thus far. While anybody can beat anyone else on any given day, Indiana (the conference MBB blue blood) has been dealt a kind hand to play.

P.S. Tom Crean was getting all sorts of H@LL from his schools alumni supporters. Crean has been able to have some of the better recruited MBB talent on his roster in his 8 years at Indiana but he is an average coach.
 
gojojo said:
I don't think anyone is saying Indiana is some gimme win for Iowa. If I were to put $ on it right now I would say split. I don't see Indiana winning at Carver on
Senior night with it being Woodbury, Uthoff, Clemmons, and Gessel's last game, but anything is possible.

Comparing the ND game is pointless from my point of view for 2 reasons: 1) the distributive property doesn't apply to athletics...just ask Stanford and Iowa FB fans. 2) Iowa is a completely different team than they were in November/early Dec. We had no bench play, Gessel looked lost, team played soft. I am guessing Michigan State looks at that box score in disbelief.
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Good points gojo. Yea, I don't think anyone is saying sweep here for Iowa against IU but just when one says one is better than the other to winning a Big Ten title, I don't think there is any question just how risky and tough Iowa's schedule is compared to any other team so you are going to get some push back from Iowa fans or bb fans in general. And yes, we certainly saw this with our football team but those West teams played and competed very well against the East teams so the schedule ended up being a lot tougher than on paper.

Basketball is just the opposite this year when normally teams like Minny, the Illini, Wisky, OSU, Nebby and PSU are usually a tougher out then they are this year. IU plays the teams in bold twice and if I have this right, IU only plays PU, MSU, Michigan and Maryland once. It's not IU's fault either with how well teams are playing or not. Go figure? IU and Iowa only play Rutgers once so that evens out.

NW is improved and some teams are improving too .

But imo the differentiator (Most Impressive) with this Iowa team and you have to risk adjust to their Big schedule to date is just how tough they have been playing defensively against a very tough 5-0 schedule. Ya gotta get stops in this league and right now, no one does this better than Iowa against who they have played.

The top 6 scoring teams in the league in order are IU, IOWA, PU, Maryland, MSU and Michigan. Iowa has beaten and held 3 of these teams well below their scoring offense average, one of them home and two of them as a true road game with the best home crowds in the BIG behind them at Breslin and Mackey.......that's impressive.
 
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DanL53 said:
As much as I don't care for Indiana, and we can blame them for their nonconference schedule, it's not up to them who and where they play in the league. The schedule is a product of the Big Ten's need for more money and it's dash for the East Coast cash.

One has to wonder when the quality of the product, as in a round robin schedule, becomes important enough to give up some money?
Click to expand...

Valid point. ^^ At 14 teams now...B10 schedules in several sports have really taken a hit IMO. Football, BBall, wrestling, etc. To me, they are all showing much more weakness than before.
 
IMO Iowa is going to sweep Indiana this season. Partly because Iowa is so hot and because IU is coached by Crean. I'm not even trying to be cocky, I just think this Iowa team has figured it out incl. Fran. When Fran admitted that he should've played his bench more after the ISU game, I think the light came on. Since then our bench has come alive and so has our overall scoring and defense. But Crean has always underachieved even when he's had NBA caliber talent on his squads. Maybe he's getting it figured out but if history is any indicator, he'll underachieve again.
 
Indiana looked darn good last night. Granted that the Illini is a dumpster fire right now, but IU looked excellent. They will win plenty of games in the B1G.
 
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UNI beat North Carolina, Ill. Chicago beat UNI. Therefore, Ill. Chi. is better than NC. It's simple.
 
TheHawkeyeDudeAbides said:
Once again, you have misused my words. I called Indiana overrated by its AP coaches polling which is the most frequently used rating. BPI, RPI and ESPN / Lundari polls have Indiana valued at only Top 25 to 50. More realistic.

I called Indiana's to date schedule a creampuff, not the team. I did rename the Hooisers as Posers as they sit at the top of the conference but have omly faced one of the top half (tOSU) of the conference leading BB programs thus far. While anybody can beat anyone else on any given day, Indiana (the conference MBB blue blood) has been dealt a kind hand to play.

P.S. Tom Crean was getting all sorts of H@LL from his schools alumni supporters. Crean has been able to have some of the better recruited MBB talent on his roster in his 8 years at Indiana but he is an average coach.
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Most IU fans want Crean fired regardless of how many wins he stacks up. I don't think anything has been pointed out that is news. The schedule opened up nicely for them in the Big 10. That was known before the season started. That being said, I'm still somewhat surprised they started 6-0. I figured they'd drop at least one given the lack of faith in the head coach. It is possible they are better overall without Blackmon as Yogi is in his best role and it adds a better defender on the floor (Blackmon was by far IU's biggest hole on defense). His shooting is missed, but so far has been made up for by Zeisloft and Johnson.

IU was over rated to start the year at #12 or whatever. I think they are probably rated appropriately now based on how the season has gone for them and others. I doubt the run will continue - I expect some road losses coming up and there really aren't any gimmes in the big ten other than Rutgers IMO (who IU is done with). There is always a team that gets a schedule that is favorable. This year it is IU - double edged sword for many IU fans that want Crean fired, but obviously still want the team to do well.

Iowa is a tremendous team. I've watched them 3 times now and I'll be surprised if IU can get 1 win against them. Fun to watch. Great length, team players, good shooters. A lot to like and look forward to for Iowa this season.
 
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srams21 said:
It's amazing how unbalanced the BIG schedules can be. Indiana is set up for success this year. Like you said, it's not their fault, but the stars have aligned for them. At this point, they only have one RPI top 50 win.
Click to expand...
Agree. These things even out over time. Iowa football benefitted from a creampuff conference schedule that allowed them to avoid playing Mich, MSU, OSU, PSU during the regular season. The west sucks in strength compared to the east, but this might flip (I doubt it though) in a few years. It's the nature of the beast when you have so many teams in the conference and you can't play everyone an equal amount.
 
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