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Intermat rankings are out

Real Woods, thank you Lord. We needed him in a bad way. Lot's of work to do but i think we have a great shot at overachieving at many weights. Brands, Max, Assad, Warner, Cass, to name a few.
Drake, any chance he has a growth spurt and gets to 133? He hasn't taken his redshirt has he?
Edit: Plus I'm super excited about Kennedy.
 
125 1. Lee
133 14. Schriever
141 2. Woods
149 8. Murin
157 33. Reyna
165 17. Kennedy
174 16. Brands
184 13. Assad
197 3. Warner
285 4. Cass
 
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Real Woods, thank you Lord. We needed him in a bad way. Lot's of work to do but i think we have a great shot at overachieving at many weights. Brands, Max, Assad, Warner, Cass, to name a few.
Drake, any chance he has a growth spurt and gets to 133? He hasn't taken his redshirt has he?
Edit: Plus I'm super excited about Kennedy.
I like it. Warner overachieving would be champ It will be tougher with Ferrari back but he can beat all of top 5 and can lose to all of them.
 
don't put that evil on PK (or my fantasy team)
Hey Willie I know it’s semantics, but what’s the justification for Slav ahead of Davison or Orndorff? I didn’t look at results and know Slav is pretty good, but Orndorff has placed (2x?) and Davison placed. Maybe he has a h2h win but just thought it was weird.
 
I like it. Warner overachieving would be champ It will be tougher with Ferrari back but he can beat all of top 5 and can lose to all of them.
Warner is capable…. really felt like things finally clicked for him at last years ncaa’s

I hope he gained more confidence from that showing ….. always seemed to me to “hold back” a little too much in the past…. when he’s on his offense he’s really good!
 
Hey Willie I know it’s semantics, but what’s the justification for Slav ahead of Davison or Orndorff? I didn’t look at results and know Slav is pretty good, but Orndorff has placed (2x?) and Davison placed. Maybe he has a h2h win but just thought it was weird.

He had wins over both at Cliff Keen last year.
 
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He had wins over both at Cliff Keen last year.
Thanks. I know he’s good but didn’t even realize he had any matches last year. Plus I think Orndorff is a sad excuse for a D1 wrestler. He’s so pathetic against anyone with a pulse.
 
Warner is capable…. really felt like things finally clicked for him at last years ncaa’s

I hope he gained more confidence from that showing ….. always seemed to me to “hold back” a little too much in the past…. when he’s on his offense he’s really good!

I am going to say it out loud...Warner is $$ at the NCAAs. Here are his losses:
2019:
Lane 4-2 SV-1
Hokit 5-4

2021:
Ferrari 3-2
Amine 5-3

2022:

Dean 3-2

He will always wrestle, even the best guys, a close match. Has to figure out how to score in the last minute to flip these results. But yea, a guy like that has a chance to win.
 
I am going to say it out loud...Warner is $$ at the NCAAs. Here are his losses:
2019:
Lane 4-2 SV-1
Hokit 5-4

2021:
Ferrari 3-2
Amine 5-3

2022:

Dean 3-2

He will always wrestle, even the best guys, a close match. Has to figure out how to score in the last minute to flip these results. But yea, a guy like that has a chance to win.
I’d rather he didn’t wait til the last minute…. the way they ref at nationals the last thing you want to do is get behind early and have to chase a guy in the third
 
Hey Willie I know it’s semantics, but what’s the justification for Slav ahead of Davison or Orndorff? I didn’t look at results and know Slav is pretty good, but Orndorff has placed (2x?) and Davison placed. Maybe he has a h2h win but just thought it was weird.

he beat both last year at CKLV
 
I’d rather he didn’t wait til the last minute…. the way they ref at nationals the last thing you want to do is get behind early and have to chase a guy in the third
It is simply a matter of his skill set/style. He is well scouted and not exactly an offensive dynamo. So his go to offense is often eliminated by his opponents positioning. When he does get in trouble, it is almost always from him pushing offensive positions too hard on his feet. He is at his best when he lets his opponents come to him. His go behinds are about as good as it gets.

Where he is at his best is on the mat. He can escape from anyone and can grind out that minute advantage in riding time. With that said, His advantage in neutral is his positioning. It may lend to many close scoring matches, but it still puts him in his best position to win.

Now, his weakness is that last 30-45 seconds. He often uses up a TON of energy on the mat trying to hold onto a 1 point lead and he has been vulnerable at times on his feet in those last few seconds when he does appear to have a bit of rubber legs at the end of matches...
 
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It is simply a matter of his skill set/style. He is well scouted and not exactly an offensive dynamo. So his go to offense is often eliminated by his opponents positioning. When he does get in trouble, it is almost always from him pushing offensive positions too hard on his feet. He is at his best when he lets his opponents come to him. His go behinds are about as good as it gets.

Where he is at his best is on the mat. He can escape from anyone and can grind out that minute advantage in riding time. With that said, His advantage in neutral is his positioning. It may lend to many close scoring matches, but it still puts him in his best position to win.

Now, his weakness is that last 30-45 seconds. He often uses up a TON of energy on the mat trying to hold onto a 1 point lead and he has been vulnerable at times on his feet in those last few seconds when he does appear to have a bit of rubber legs at the end of matches...
I agree with your assessment of his strengths…… my point was if he scores earlier and is wrestling with a lead his opponents would have to “come to him” in your words…… rather than him being behind at the end and having to chase them….

I honestly can’t think of a circumstance where it’s not better to score early (and often) and wrestle with a lead….. especially at nationals where refs calling stalling is a rarity
 
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I agree with your assessment of his strengths…… my point was if he scores earlier and is wrestling with a lead his opponents would have to “come to him” in your words…… rather than him being behind at the end and having to chase them….

I honestly can’t think of a circumstance where it’s not better to score early (and often) and wrestle with a lead….. especially at nationals where refs calling stalling is a rarity
I agree with the premise, however, it just isn't that easy for many DI wrestlers. Warner has pretty much mastered his skillset. However, that skillset doesn't lend to him scoring early on the top 10 or so guys at his weight. This is a topic that I feel strongly about. I often see many fans calling for more shooting, attacks and scoring. Early and often.

It just IS NOT that easy. I would love to see Iowa have guys scoring points against the best early and often. But, this requires more than just training. It requires recruiting kids with the abilities necessary to do so. To be clear, these kind of wrestler don't grow on trees. I relate more to the Warner, Murin, Lugo or even Marinelli types. They mastered the skill sets that fit them best. I have a soft spot for "grinders".

Not all wrestlers can be flashy like a Nickal or slick like a Burroughs. Hell, even Spencer Lee has ridiculous grip strength. Because, make no mistake, you arent cranking guys over with bar arms in DI with just technique. DI positioning, defense and inevitably counter offense are at an all time high. Unless you are a freak or have mastered a technique that suits your physical attributes almost perfectly, it is VERY HARD to score at the top of the DI level...
 
Th
I agree with the premise, however, it just isn't that easy for many DI wrestlers. Warner has pretty much mastered his skillset. However, that skillset doesn't lend to him scoring early on the top 10 or so guys at his weight. This is a topic that I feel strongly about. I often see many fans calling for more shooting, attacks and scoring. Early and often.

It just IS NOT that easy. I would love to see Iowa have guys scoring points against the best early and often. But, this requires more than just training. It requires recruiting kids with the abilities necessary to do so. To be clear, these kind of wrestler don't grow on trees. I relate more to the Warner, Murin, Lugo or even Marinelli types. They mastered the skill sets that fit them best. I have a soft spot for "grinders".

Not all wrestlers can be flashy like a Nickal or slick like a Burroughs. Hell, even Spencer Lee has ridiculous grip strength. Because, make no mistake, you arent cranking guys over with bar arms in DI with just technique. DI positioning, defense and inevitably counter offense are at an all time high. Unless you are a freak or have mastered a technique that suits your physical attributes almost perfectly, it is VERY HARD to score at the top of the DI level...
This is spot on, IMO.

Warner is obviously very athletic to get as far as he has gotten in his wrestling career, but he isn't quick enough to find a lot of success shooting and scoring on the quick guys at his weight. Even his awesome go behinds are a mix of timing and immensely heavy hands, not quickness. Honestly, he's relatively clumsy.
 
Hey Willie I know it’s semantics, but what’s the justification for Slav ahead of Davison or Orndorff? I didn’t look at results and know Slav is pretty good, but Orndorff has placed (2x?) and Davison placed. Maybe he has a h2h win but just thought it was weird.
Because Willie is a Skidmark
 
I agree with the premise, however, it just isn't that easy for many DI wrestlers. Warner has pretty much mastered his skillset. However, that skillset doesn't lend to him scoring early on the top 10 or so guys at his weight. This is a topic that I feel strongly about. I often see many fans calling for more shooting, attacks and scoring. Early and often.

It just IS NOT that easy. I would love to see Iowa have guys scoring points against the best early and often. But, this requires more than just training. It requires recruiting kids with the abilities necessary to do so. To be clear, these kind of wrestler don't grow on trees. I relate more to the Warner, Murin, Lugo or even Marinelli types. They mastered the skill sets that fit them best. I have a soft spot for "grinders".

Not all wrestlers can be flashy like a Nickal or slick like a Burroughs. Hell, even Spencer Lee has ridiculous grip strength. Because, make no mistake, you arent cranking guys over with bar arms in DI with just technique. DI positioning, defense and inevitably counter offense are at an all time high. Unless you are a freak or have mastered a technique that suits your physical attributes almost perfectly, it is VERY HARD to score at the top of the DI level...
So you’re saying wrestling is hard?
 
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So you’re saying wrestling is hard?
Not really. Wrestling all the way up to High School is pretty easy. You can be as much as a state placer, by having solid cardio, a decent work ethic, 6+ years of experience. decent technique and positional awareness. Depending on the state and division you are in placing high and/or being a state champ can be hard. Wrestling after that gets considerably harder.

Not addressing the other divisions, being a DI wrestler is pretty hard. Being a DI starter is hard. Being a DI starter on a top team is very hard. Being a top 20 wrestler is even harder. Being an AA is exceptionally hard. Being top 3 is ridiculously hard. Being a Finalist and or Champ makes anything, where the use of the word hard fits, seem easy.

Taking that all into account, being able to score early and often against top 10 wrestlers whenever you need to is exponentially more difficult than all the gaps between all the levels I listed above...
 
Not really. Wrestling all the way up to High School is pretty easy. You can be as much as a state placer, by having solid cardio, a decent work ethic, 6+ years of experience. decent technique and positional awareness. Depending on the state and division you are in placing high and/or being a state champ can be hard. Wrestling after that gets considerably harder.

Not addressing the other divisions, being a DI wrestler is pretty hard. Being a DI starter is hard. Being a DI starter on a top team is very hard. Being a top 20 wrestler is even harder. Being an AA is exceptionally hard. Being top 3 is ridiculously hard. Being a Finalist and or Champ makes anything, where the use of the word hard fits, seem easy.

Taking that all into account, being able to score early and often against top 10 wrestlers whenever you need to is exponentially more difficult than all the gaps between all the levels I listed above...
well ok …. you obviously know way more about wrestling than I do…… let me ask you this…..

If you can take your opponent down in the 3rd period…… why can’t you take him down in the 1st period

not sure if the stat is even available but I’d like to know the winning percentage of wrestlers that get the first takedown in a match…….. I’ll take a stab at it …70%??
 
Not really. Wrestling all the way up to High School is pretty easy. You can be as much as a state placer, by having solid cardio, a decent work ethic, 6+ years of experience. decent technique and positional awareness. Depending on the state and division you are in placing high and/or being a state champ can be hard. Wrestling after that gets considerably harder.

Not addressing the other divisions, being a DI wrestler is pretty hard. Being a DI starter is hard. Being a DI starter on a top team is very hard. Being a top 20 wrestler is even harder. Being an AA is exceptionally hard. Being top 3 is ridiculously hard. Being a Finalist and or Champ makes anything, where the use of the word hard fits, seem easy.

Taking that all into account, being able to score early and often against top 10 wrestlers whenever you need to is exponentially more difficult than all the gaps between all the levels I listed above...
well I did find this but it’s referring to high school

It is unclear if any direct statistics apply to high school wrestling, but area coaches estimate that wrestlers who register the first takedown of a match go on to win as much as 80 percent of the time.

"I think you're looking at the first takedown winning 75 or 80 percent of the time," Beth-Center wrestling coach Chuck Colborn said. "It's a big momentum thing. It's very important to be able to score first in the match."

Coaches differ on why the first takedown is so important, but most agree that the 75 percent winning percentage is not unreasonable. They say the reason for that comes down to psychology, strategy and simple mathematics.

"If I'm wrestling you, and I get the first takedown, I'm up 2-0 in the first period," Elizabeth Forward coach Rich Scheuermann said. "If I can ride you out for the period, then I can start the second period in the down position. I get an escape, I'm up 3-0. Even if you come back and take me down and get an escape, you've only managed to get it to 3-3. Then I'm going to be down again with a chance to get an escape and win, 4-3. So getting the first takedown gives you an advantage just from that standpoint."

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well I did find this but it’s referring to high school

It is unclear if any direct statistics apply to high school wrestling, but area coaches estimate that wrestlers who register the first takedown of a match go on to win as much as 80 percent of the time.

"I think you're looking at the first takedown winning 75 or 80 percent of the time," Beth-Center wrestling coach Chuck Colborn said. "It's a big momentum thing. It's very important to be able to score first in the match."

Coaches differ on why the first takedown is so important, but most agree that the 75 percent winning percentage is not unreasonable. They say the reason for that comes down to psychology, strategy and simple mathematics.

"If I'm wrestling you, and I get the first takedown, I'm up 2-0 in the first period," Elizabeth Forward coach Rich Scheuermann said. "If I can ride you out for the period, then I can start the second period in the down position. I get an escape, I'm up 3-0. Even if you come back and take me down and get an escape, you've only managed to get it to 3-3. Then I'm going to be down again with a chance to get an escape and win, 4-3. So getting the first takedown gives you an advantage just from that standpoint."

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Again, I said I agree with your premise. Getting the 1st takedown is huge. Especially if you can do it early. However, my point was simply about how hard it is to do against top level wrestlers. I then compounded that in the case of Warner, because he isn’t a big takedown guy to begin with.

As to taking a guy down in the 3rd period instead of the 1st goes, there are a myriad of answers. The foremost being wearing your opponent down to the point where he makes a positional mistake that he wouldn’t in the 1st. Another being noticing a tendency that takes time and feel to exploit. It’s hard to create offense without feeling out your opponent to set that offense up. A big one on top of those is the inevitable sense of urgency. This often causes both wrestlers to open up and inevitably leads to one big exchange where one guy usually comes out on top.

Warner is pretty good at coming out on top with that last one, but he is in that situation so much that many remember his losses where most of them come from that situation as well…
 
well ok …. you obviously know way more about wrestling than I do…… let me ask you this…..

If you can take your opponent down in the 3rd period…… why can’t you take him down in the 1st period

not sure if the stat is even available but I’d like to know the winning percentage of wrestlers that get the first takedown in a match…….. I’ll take a stab at it …70%??
heres a study by wisconsin lacrosse where they say scoring the first takedown leads to winning 79% of the time…… I’m gonna let this go….. don’t want to seem like more of a dick than I am 😂 but my whole point about Warner scoring earlier in matches was based on this thinking

yea his opponents are tough to score on but scoring early leads to winning a high percentage of the time…… that’s all I was saying…..

sorry to beat a dead horse….. no offense to you MSU …… if I seem argumentative
actually was a good talk 😎

R. A. Analysis of scoring strategies in college wrestling. MS in Physical Education Teaching, May 2013, 34pp. (J. Steffen)
The purpose of the present study was to analyze the scoring strategies in college wrestling to identify a relationship to winning the wrestling match. Sixteen collegiate wrestlers from the University of Wisconsin-La Crosse, a division three college in the Midwest, participated in the study. Fifteen factors were chosen by anecdotal theories and experts in the sport as possible indicators of success in a wrestling match. The data was collected from fifteen matches of each wrestler during the 2012-2013 wrestling season. The results could allow for a better understanding of what factors are the best predictors of a win of a wrestling match. A Chi-square test (χ2) was done on each individual variable to find the relationship between each variable to the outcome of the wrestling match. Unanswered points (83.5%), leading the second period (83.6%), and first takedown (79.9%) had the highest percent to the outcome of the match and were all significant (<.001) to winning the wrestling match. A multiple logistic regression was used to investigate the relationship of all the predictors to winning a collegiate wrestling match. Riding time, third period points, first takedown, leading the second period, and unanswered points were included in the equation which revealed a 93.2% of correct
 
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I like winning but like more aggressive wrestling, but style vs style is a thing. So much scouting now.
 
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