I just noticed thepredicament.com is gone. IAwrestle rankings are behind a paywall. Iapreps forums have been dead for a long time. Is there any place to talk about Iowa high school wrestling? Are there any rankings that are not behind a paywall?
Iowa High School
- Thread starter Drake__Mallard
- Start date
Hager created FB page to discuss iowa HS like a forum. That's likely the future for such things.
Still probably have to pay for rankings? What a joke. People swoop in claiming to "grow the sport" and as soon as competition is gone they put up a paywall. I can google any sport in Iowa and find a ranking but not wrestling. What a joke.
Not sure. If so, its too bad and we have a lot to be grateful for; years of magazines and reliable rankings.
It sucks because Hager is going to ring out every last penny from fans only to realize that only die hard will pay money. Anyone on the fringe wont pay and we lose an opportunity to recognize kids for their efforts. Hope its worth it.
I pay $10 a month subscription to Rokfin. For that, I get access to IAwrestle content, Willie's, duals, interviews plus IA covered the Grandview Open on it. More stuff will be going up on Rokfin. Folks wanted more people covering the sport and competing with Flo. This is what that looks like.
Ok, but lets say I dont follow local wrestling a ton, but I want to see if any local kids are doing well so I can pat them on the back when I see em or catch a local dual? I used to be able to just check thepredicament or iawrestle, but now I have to pay for that?
Yeah, great way to build a casual following...
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LOL, this grow the sport stuff. You now have college coaches making half a mil a year. State of the art facilities being built or in the plans. Woman's programs popping up. Multiple media outlets selling subscriptions. Club coaches making a living only coaching youth/HS wrestling.
You can always subscribe to the local newspaper to get the results. But those devils will likely make you pay for that subscription as well. And the school who's going to charge you to watch the dual? Evil. It really sucks that people who put in a lot of hard work, should be compensated at all. I mean the Schultz guy said to kill the predicament site after he died. Maybe place your blame on him for not having a succession plan.
I can go online and find rankings for pretty much all Iowa sports in high school except for wrestling. Why is that?
Im not talking about video or articles or anything. Im talking about rankings. Ill happily pay for a paper, which I do, or to go watch a meet because I know what I am getting for that. But 10 bucks a month for rankings? What a joke.
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I have a forum that I set up, but never promoted because I just haven’t had time. I’ve had it for a year and a half or so… I don’t even know if I have my admin password and stuff anymore, I’ll have to find it, 😆 but FWIW here is the link to it…
There is potential for that thing to be on there for a while. Not to brag, but I kinda carried The Predicament forums for 10 years straight before starting The Pin Doctors… maybe I should make a push with it?
I paid like $10 month for Rob Sherrill rankings in the 90s. And that was 30 years ago looks like Hager better charge way more
Haha, you definitely did. You wont remember, but just a couple years back we had some talks about some old matches with Justin, Naig, Ettelson, that era. I followed much closer back in those days
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We talked on the predicament? You never know, I may remember that! Lol got kinda a weird memory. What was your name on that?Haha, you definitely did. You wont remember, but just a couple years back we had some talks about some old matches with Justin, Naig, Ettelson, that era. I followed much closer back in those days
i was able to get ahold of Naig vs. CJ’s match and posted it on the pin doctors… holy cow what a match THAT was!!!
Umm, not quite sure. Maybe BigBagJohn or NwestIAJoe? Idk, I was coaching at the time and was trying to stay hyper anonymous. How did you get that match? And where is a link? Hahaha I still think about that every now and then. Naig had it won!
Got it from CJ! I have a ton of home video matches coming to the YouTube station… kinda making a thing out of it. Here’s the link:
here is Naig and Justin’s finals match… they had a couple barn burners… there was this one and then the semis the year before where Justin won. Then they met in the finals at freestyle state after their finals match…
Thanks for the nice words about the site! Ya know, when ya got a site like Flo who is blatantly creating a monopoly in a market that isn’t even established, in fact struggles with numbers across the board…the response for a wrestling media outlet isn’t to create another Flo type site… the response should be to create something with its own identity that can’t be duplicated by something like Flo. Haha hopefully I am at least on the right path there!
For you it's rankings, for others it's interviews or another section of the sport that should be free. Unless someone does it as a hobby, like Rico, time is money...especially if you want to go full time covering the sport. As an example, the DSM Register pretty much put most things behind the pay wall. Not a big deal but I like reading Cody and Chad's stuff so I ponied up. I pay zero to ESPN and all the big sites.
The way that Rokfin is approaching things is interesting and I respect the hell out of what they are doing. They are providing tons of content and for a very affordable price. It’s a good deal, unquestionably. I have no problems or qualms with how they are doing things and I wish everyone would buy a subscription to them and fully believe it’s worth it.
However, observing what they are doing has put me in a dilemma in terms of what to do with The Pin Doctors, for on one hand, I wish I could make money from some of the content I produce, for I am a single father of 3 girls who are with me 95% of the time and I can totally use the money right now. A premium content fee, or a service like Rokfin would allow this to happen for me. However, it really put me in a dilemma in terms of deciding whether I should take that approach or not because I think there are niches and types of content that are compatible with that approach and I think there are some that are not. I think the content produced by Rokfin is more compatible with the premium content/monthly fee approach, for their content will appeal to the wrestling die-hards who will have no problem paying the $10 per month. They produce high quality wrestling content for wrestling fans who have loved the sport for a long time. The Rokfin following is much more inclined to be ok with a premium service charge, for they know they love wrestling and therefore, they know they will put their subscription to use. It is perfect for them.
With me, however, it’s not as great of a fit. My following on The Pin Doctors is WAY different than any other outlet… like, I have a ton of followers who aren’t even aware of what outlets like Flo even are… they only follow wrestling on The Pin Doctors. Reason being, with my content, I place a huge emphasis on trying to reach and appeal to the non-wrestling crowd. I try to produce some content that the die hards may not find as entertaining, but the non-wrestlers could find interesting. This is on purpose, for I feel the more relatable we portray the wrestling community to the common non-wrestler, the more likely the common non-wrestler will be to want to be a part of the wrestling community. That’s why I post a lot of stuff about what other areas in life wrestlers are excelling in off the mat… like fishing, art, career advancement, I posted a former wrestler’s music accolades the other day, etc. And what happens is not only does the wrestling crowd check it out, but next thing you know, some of the fishing, art, music, etc. crowds start checking in at the site to see if there is any recent fishing/music/etc. content to read and the next thing they know, they are looking at wrestling stats and developing an interest in wrestling that they never had prior to reading The Pin Doctors page. I really emphasize producing stuff that puts us in a positive, relatable light or something people would want to be a part of opposed to the “wrestlers are meathead robots” false perceptions that a lot of non-wrestlers have of us. A lot of what I post is aimed at depicting wrestlers as the versatile, introspective, like-minded people most of us are, for I feel that is key to getting more people to give it a chance. One of the biggest barriers for wrestling in terms of growth, are the unfair stereotypes that have been applied to us for years by those who don’t know anything about it…(that we are robots, that we torture ourselves, that we are miserable, that we are simple-minded, etc.) Because why would anyone want to give wrestling the time of day if that’s all they know us as? But hey, if they are presented with content that proves that we are a versatile group with a very admirable culture, that changes the whole outlook that the common person has about wrestling.
I guess where I am going with this is that while it’d be nice being paid a fee for premium content, I don’t think it would work for my site, for so many of my followers are not die-hard fans… they are just now kind of starting to become acquainted with it and the majority of them would not be interested in paying the fee, for they are still trying to decide if they like it or not. So yeah that’s another frustrating part.
Another audience that I am targeting are former wrestlers who had success in their day, but have gotten away from the sport over time. I mean, if you want to grow wrestling and gain more fans of the sport, the easiest group of non-wrestlers to win over are the ones who loved it at one time, but lost touch with it… There is always potential for this audience to suddenly remember how much the sport meant to them and ultimately end up following wrestling again. That’s part of the reason why you see a lot of history on my site. I want to get some of these people back into it. That and it’s important that our hard work is permanently documented and it makes me feel honored to contribute to that.
So much of my content is directed at winning over new prospective fans, who’s interest may be sparked with what they’ve read from me, but not to the point where they want to pay a fee. Not to mention, with a lot of the history stuff, I just feel like it should be accessible to everyone, not just those who can afford it… Learning and knowing the history of wrestling is a valuable set of information to possess. People can learn from the historical stories of wrestling and potentially apply it to their own lives. It wouldn’t feel right on my conscience if everyone didn’t have equal opportunities to assess information like that.
So I don’t know what to do. I have close to 15K followers on Facebook and it has taken me less than two years to build it to this number, so I know I have tapped into something unique that a lot of people are identifying with, but it is very time-consuming and I have no idea how to successfully monetize it… but there has to be a way… Its growing fast and it reaches hundreds of thousands of people every 20-25 days on average… there’s got to be something.
It’s frustrating.
I used to do rankings for The Predicament…. It is one of the most grueling tasks I’ve ever been assigned with. There’s a reason I don’t and won’t have rankings on The Pin Doctors… that’s one of them.
Comparing wrestling rankings with other sports rankings is comparing apples and oranges. Those sports take a fraction of the time to do because they only rank teams. Wrestling is the only sport that has rankings for Individuals as well as teams. You know how much less time it takes to do team rankings than it does Individual? I mean, hell, you have to account for 14 weights per team…so that’s 14X as many categories to rank than there are teams. You have to learn and know THOUSANDS of names and you have to be good at doing it, for if there is one thing fans get irate about, it’s when they disagree with your rankings… so you can’t just put something sloppy together and expect it to be acceptable. It takes a lot of time…it takes a lot of effort….it takes a lot of stress…and no matter the outcome, you’ll take a lot of heat, for it doesn’t matter what you come up with, you are always guaranteed to receive hateful pm’s from the parents of kids who think there kids aren’t ranked high enough. Conducting wrestling rankings is a very tumultuous experience and it takes a ton out of someone time-wise and mentally in order to get them right.
For what is sacrificed to provide rankings, $10 is a helluva deal. And I wouldn’t have known or thought that had I not done rankings in the past.
Comparing wrestling rankings with other sports rankings is comparing apples and oranges. Those sports take a fraction of the time to do because they only rank teams. Wrestling is the only sport that has rankings for Individuals as well as teams. You know how much less time it takes to do team rankings than it does Individual? I mean, hell, you have to account for 14 weights per team…so that’s 14X as many categories to rank than there are teams. You have to learn and know THOUSANDS of names and you have to be good at doing it, for if there is one thing fans get irate about, it’s when they disagree with your rankings… so you can’t just put something sloppy together and expect it to be acceptable. It takes a lot of time…it takes a lot of effort….it takes a lot of stress…and no matter the outcome, you’ll take a lot of heat, for it doesn’t matter what you come up with, you are always guaranteed to receive hateful pm’s from the parents of kids who think there kids aren’t ranked high enough. Conducting wrestling rankings is a very tumultuous experience and it takes a ton out of someone time-wise and mentally in order to get them right.
For what is sacrificed to provide rankings, $10 is a helluva deal. And I wouldn’t have known or thought that had I not done rankings in the past.
Pulled the trigger on rokfin last night. Reminded me of watching the state tournament back in the 70's. I hope their profits go into a few new cameras.
Rokfin doesn't put on the events theyre the platform that's used. The events are put on
by the channel owner. So the equipment used would be owned by whoever put the event on. It's like YouTube
To say that you are owed something someone else works to do is absurd. Just because someone else has done, or does doesn't give you the right to expect it from anyone else. Rankings are a b!tch to do. Try it for yourself and then give it away and see how you feel then.
It sounds like a tremendous opportunity for you Mallard.
start a set of Iowa HS Rankings 14 wts for 1A, 14 wts for 2A, 14 wts for 3A, 14 wts for girls, Top 20 teams for each of those divisions. follow the sport every week and make changes, field emails asking about them, and then post them all on a site that you create. and do it all for free.
post the link when you're done.
start a set of Iowa HS Rankings 14 wts for 1A, 14 wts for 2A, 14 wts for 3A, 14 wts for girls, Top 20 teams for each of those divisions. follow the sport every week and make changes, field emails asking about them, and then post them all on a site that you create. and do it all for free.
post the link when you're done.
My thought is that its too bad that now we have to pay for that. I actually did rankings one time. I put together some class 2A preseason rankings together... it was work. Ill admit it.
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Here is the thing... I do not have time to do this. My career right now takes up too much of my spare time so ultimately I will have to make a choice to pay for IAwrestle when I know I will only use it for rankings or become further removed from it. Honestly, I will probably choose the latter.
Yell at me because I am bitching. Pull the ole "why dont you do it?!?!". I really dont care. However, while you scold me, think about how many people will make the same decision I am. We serve the fanatics at the expense of any casual fans. That is also a choice. Itll be interesting to see what the long term effects of such choices are.
Those are all people who are on the fringe of being potential customers. Semi-interested people dont pay into a subscription model. I think if we are looking at the long term, throwing up paywalls over everything is not sustainable.
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This is one of the most interesting threads I’ve seen anywhere in a while.
It is such a maddening situation that doesn’t seem to have a correct answer from a media perspective sometimes. Wrestling is a sport that has struggled to maintain relevance, popularity and numbers. We need every “on the fringe” wrestling fan to become fans as possible. This sport can NOT afford to lose any fans. The state of wrestling just isn’t stable enough yet, but we’d like to get it there! And we will never get it there if we don’t put the hooks into the semi interested people and reel them in.
but on the flip side…. Man it’s so much time away from your family and so little compensation.
I can’t seem to figure it out. Every day I ask myself what the hell I’m even doing.
You think a casual UFC Fan is sitting at their desk going through weight by weight rankings? I feel like that's what hard core fans do, which is why you're looking to do it for wrestling. I really don't think the casual fan cares for this, and the future growth of the sport certainly doesn't hinge on this like how you're implying.
I dont think this is the hinge issue no, but it is worth considering isnt it? It is very possible to milk a cow until its dead. Where is that line for wrestling?
I think there would need to be a big increase in interest for combat sports as a whole, which is happening, but I dont know how wrestling is positioned in that.
There is growing interest. I think a good start would actually be reddit. There are like 400 million reddit users and I have seen people on other martial arts subs talk about how they would be more interested in wrestling, but the subreddit for it is horrible. Wrestling actually makes the front page every now and then but it never comes from the wrestling sub.
Wow good point on Reddit. I’ve never thought of that. Very google-friendly too.
Ive thought about that a lot. If all the users from here, themat, bwi, everywhere, left here and went to Reddit it would probably really make an impact. Of course that will never happen
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Point of order: People who don’t pay aren’t customers, by definition. Faulting people for earning money for their time and effort is a very odd hill to stand on.
No, but potential customers is a different thing. If only people currently paying is important, then why would advertising ever be necessary? Im not dying on this hill. I mearly bringing up a concern. I doubt Hager is so thin skinned he can't take any criticism.
Either way, how can you fault him for wanting to be compensated for his work? How’s a guy supposed to make a living by working hard and giving away his work for free? From what I have seen most of these media outlets have a decent amount of free content. I don’t think this is some death knell like you’re saying.
If I have an “issue” with IA Wrestle it’s that they want to be fan boys or journalists depending on what’s convenient or the least path or resistance. Some people don’t mind that, and see value in them, so they pay. Fine with me. To each their own.
Heres the thing tho, I used to look to thepredicament for years and the moment they stopped, then IAwrestle threw up a paywall. I have money. I can spend 10 bucks a month, but why give it to them? My experience has been that IAwrestle is only concerned with the east side of the state and know almost nothing about anything west of Des Moines and most of the stuff they put out is not that interesting. I dont care about interviews. Its annoying to me that they dont have to sell their product at all. I have a hard time giving them my money just because they are the only show in town for something that used to be free and was done better.
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