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Before you crown Penn State's title because of development of PA kids, here's a look at where they actual came from.Kids from Iowa are rarely making the transition from Iowa HS dominance to College level dominance anymore.
Whereas, PA Kids are.
What's the difference?
More people in those states helps. They also have more super programs and way better access to top of the line in season tournaments and competition. The club scene was way ahead there too but Iowa has improved that. Participation and depth is not what it used to be in Iowa even 20 years ago. Many smaller schools and even a number of big class schools have lots of open weights. Some duals I've seen will have like 4 actual matches wrestled. The elite guys on the super programs get better work in at team and club practice than in actual matches for the most part.Kids from Iowa are rarely making the transition from Iowa HS dominance to College level dominance anymore.
Whereas, PA Kids are.
What's the difference?
Because I'm not a lifelong wrestling fan (but a huge fan for more than a decade) and at the risk of sounding like a rube, I was going to post a suggestion in the Tarphawk "steps to improve" thread that perhaps one might get too bogged down in intricacies of training, match tactics, and such (which are, of course, important) when the biggest issue, by far, is staring you right in the face --recruiting. It seems obvious.Before you crown Penn State's title because of development of PA kids, here's a look at where they actual came from.
Hildebrandt - IND
RBY - AZ
Lee - Ind
Bartlett - AZ
Berge - Min
Starocci - PA
Brooks - MD
Dean - Michigan
Kerk - Min
Iowa had more PA kids in their line-up than Penn State did. Not saying the state doesn't have great HS wrestling, it's just not the reason Penn State was dominant.
Troll, you are out of touch. Iowa's kids are getting stronger. Not to take anything away from the guys from PA, but Iowa produces good wrestlers these days, and better than a few years back.Kids from Iowa are rarely making the transition from Iowa HS dominance to College level dominance anymore.
Whereas, PA Kids are.
What's the difference?
DateCommited | College | Name | High School | State | Projected weight |
9/23/2021 | Virginia | Griffin Gammell | Waukee NW | IA | 184 |
11/2/2021 | Northern Iowa | Wyatt Voelker | West Delaware | IA | 197 |
10/10/2021 | Iowa | Nate Jesuroga (c/o 2023) | Southeast Polk | IA | 125 |
10/28/2021 | Virginia | Robert Avila Jr. | Iowa City West | IA | 149/157 |
10/16/2021 | Iowa | Bradley Hill | Bettendorf | IA | 285 |
9/8/2021 | Iowa State | Carter Fousek | Crestwood | IA | 125/133 |
9/19/2021 | Iowa | Ben Kueter (c/o 2023) | Iowa City High | IA | 285 |
9/6/2021 | Northern Iowa | Garrett Funk | Don Bosco | IA | 125/133 |
11/1/2021 | Stanford | Hunter Garvin | Iowa City West | IA | 157 |
10/10/2021 | Iowa | Aiden Riggins | Waverly Shell-Rock | IA | 165/174 |
10/10/2021 | Iowa | Mickey Griffith | Des Moines-Lincoln | IA | 184 |
10/12/2021 | Iowa | Carter Martinson | Southeast Polk | IA | 141/149 |
10/12/2021 | Iowa | Carson Martinson | Southeast Polk | IA | 149/157 |
10/11/2021 | Iowa | Easton Fleshman | West Lyon | IA | 285 |
10/11/2021 | Iowa | Jace Rhodes | Mason City | IA | 141/149 |
10/15/2021 | Iowa | Ryder Block (c/o 2023) | Waverly-Shell Rock | IA | 157 |
11/24/2021 | Virginia | Gabe Christenson | Southeast Polk (via Iowa) | IA | 197 |
11/4/2021 | Iowa | Joel Jesuroga | Southeast Polk | IA | 149 |
11/7/2021 | Iowa State | Tate Naaktgeboren (c/o 2023) | Linn-Mar | IA | 184 |
3/1/2021 | Northern Iowa | Chet Buss | North Butler-Clarksville | IA | 285 |
1/7/2022 | North Carolina | Cade Tenold | Don Bosco | IA | 174/184 |
11/14/2021 | Campbell | Hagen Heistand | Underwood | IA | 141/149 |
11/15/2021 | Northern Iowa | Trever Anderson | Ankeny | IA | 125 |
2/1/2022 | SIU Edwardsville | Marcel Lopez | New London | IA | 133 |
7/13/2021 | Columbia | Evan Frost | Dowling Catholic | IA | 133 |
7/13/2021 | Columbia | Jacob Frost | Dowling Catholic | IA | 133 |
YepThe reality is, across all of college sports at the elite level, the days of focusing predominantly on state and regional recruiting are OVER. If that's what you're doing, you're probably not winning. I get that we all have natural parochial instincts (and I say that as a native Pennsylvanian, where hyperparochialism borders on the genetic), but people need to get over the idea that birth/school state is even remotely relevant to anything other than in-state tuition.
9.5 million more people for starters...Kids from Iowa are rarely making the transition from Iowa HS dominance to College level dominance anymore.
Whereas, PA Kids are.
What's the difference?
4 time state champ in Iowa doesn't necessarily equal great college recruit.The kid from NL just became a 4-time state champ. Very few offers. IOWA told him congratulations but they felt like he had no competition. He will be at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville next school year.
Agreed. 4 time state champ anywhere doesn’t necessarily equal great college recruit. John Meeks was a 4 time undefeated and we all know how that turned out. Plus Lopez just lost to Iowa recruit and still in high school Jesuroga. I think we are ok telling him congrats but no thanks.4 time state champ in Iowa doesn't necessarily equal great college recruit.
Go back to the start of Iowa's dominance..Check the rosters, National Champs and place winners through the years. Compare to the last few years. Iowa did not have a single kid from the state of iowa in their starting lineup this year. Maybe check with the IHSAA on total participation in wrestling? I am quite sure it would be way down from years past. It was typical for Dual meets at our local high school to have multiple forfeits.Troll, you are out of touch. Iowa's kids are getting stronger. Not to take anything away from the guys from PA, but Iowa produces good wrestlers these days, and better than a few years back.
Closer to 10 million with 9.85 but you have a good point. It appears even with the population difference Pa. is still getting more AAs on average.9.5 million more people for starters...
We will find out in the next few years. Hopefully many National place winners in that groupProbably one of Iowa's best classes (potentially):
**Some studs in the '23 class
DateCommited College Name High School State Projected weight 9/23/2021Virginia Griffin Gammell Waukee NW IA 184 11/2/2021Northern Iowa Wyatt Voelker West Delaware IA 197 10/10/2021Iowa Nate Jesuroga (c/o 2023) Southeast Polk IA 125 10/28/2021Virginia Robert Avila Jr. Iowa City West IA 149/157 10/16/2021Iowa Bradley Hill Bettendorf IA 285 9/8/2021Iowa State Carter Fousek Crestwood IA 125/133 9/19/2021Iowa Ben Kueter (c/o 2023) Iowa City High IA 285 9/6/2021Northern Iowa Garrett Funk Don Bosco IA 125/133 11/1/2021Stanford Hunter Garvin Iowa City West IA 157 10/10/2021Iowa Aiden Riggins Waverly Shell-Rock IA 165/174 10/10/2021Iowa Mickey Griffith Des Moines-Lincoln IA 184 10/12/2021Iowa Carter Martinson Southeast Polk IA 141/149 10/12/2021Iowa Carson Martinson Southeast Polk IA 149/157 10/11/2021Iowa Easton Fleshman West Lyon IA 285 10/11/2021Iowa Jace Rhodes Mason City IA 141/149 10/15/2021Iowa Ryder Block (c/o 2023) Waverly-Shell Rock IA 157 11/24/2021Virginia Gabe Christenson Southeast Polk (via Iowa) IA 197 11/4/2021Iowa Joel Jesuroga Southeast Polk IA 149 11/7/2021Iowa State Tate Naaktgeboren (c/o 2023) Linn-Mar IA 184 3/1/2021Northern Iowa Chet Buss North Butler-Clarksville IA 285 1/7/2022North Carolina Cade Tenold Don Bosco IA 174/184 11/14/2021Campbell Hagen Heistand Underwood IA 141/149 11/15/2021Northern Iowa Trever Anderson Ankeny IA 125 2/1/2022SIU Edwardsville Marcel Lopez New London IA 133 7/13/2021Columbia Evan Frost Dowling Catholic IA 133 7/13/2021Columbia Jacob Frost Dowling Catholic IA 133
AyalaGo back to the start of Iowa's dominance..Check the rosters, National Champs and place winners through the years. Compare to the last few years. Iowa did not have a single kid from the state of iowa in their starting lineup this year. Maybe check with the IHSAA on total participation in wrestling? I am quite sure it would be way down from years past. It was typical for Dual meets at our local high school to have multiple forfeits.
I think it's limited to Christmas breakDid I read somewhere that Iowa kids aren't allowed by the state athletic association to compete out of state during the high school season?
Did I read somewhere that Iowa kids aren't allowed by the state athletic association to compete out of state during the high school season?
Way down from years past? Yes. But it is improving.Go back to the start of Iowa's dominance..Check the rosters, National Champs and place winners through the years. Compare to the last few years. Iowa did not have a single kid from the state of iowa in their starting lineup this year. Maybe check with the IHSAA on total participation in wrestling? I am quite sure it would be way down from years past. It was typical for Dual meets at our local high school to have multiple forfeits.
So the only time they are allowed to compete out of state when in season is during Christmas break?I think it's limited to Christmas break
I don't think there is any question it's improving. A healthy Drake Ayala is going to be the first one of this "new phase" to prove it IMO.Way down from years past? Yes. But it is improving.
This. I was checking my old HS’s sectional results and every weight class had only 4-5 wrestlers.Go back to the start of Iowa's dominance..Check the rosters, National Champs and place winners through the years. Compare to the last few years. Iowa did not have a single kid from the state of iowa in their starting lineup this year. Maybe check with the IHSAA on total participation in wrestling? I am quite sure it would be way down from years past. It was typical for Dual meets at our local high school to have multiple forfeits.
1A or 2A?? 2A sectionals only have 6 schools per sectional.This. I was checking my old HS’s sectional results and every weight class had only 4-5 wrestlers.
Was 2A. Didn’t know they had only 6 schools. Recently moved back to Iowa after living out of state. Thank you!1A or 2A?? 2A sectionals only have 6 schools per sectional.
But maybe someone hallucinated, er, read the same thing?Highly unlikely that anyone here would know what you read. We would have to defer to you on that one.
Regardless, Iowa teams routinely attend The Clash, The Cheesehead, The Dvorak, etc. I’m addition to smaller tournaments; so that’s false.
A good hallucination might just be in order!But maybe someone hallucinated, er, read the same thing?
I know at one time that was the rule but not 💯 sure it still is. I think there might be a component limiting to neighboring states too.So the only time they are allowed to compete out of state when in season is during Christmas break?
Let's give this a few years and see how many of these guys "make it" at the D1 level.Probably one of Iowa's best classes (potentially):
**Some studs in the '23 class
DateCommited College Name High School State Projected weight 9/23/2021Virginia Griffin Gammell Waukee NW IA 184 11/2/2021Northern Iowa Wyatt Voelker West Delaware IA 197 10/10/2021Iowa Nate Jesuroga (c/o 2023) Southeast Polk IA 125 10/28/2021Virginia Robert Avila Jr. Iowa City West IA 149/157 10/16/2021Iowa Bradley Hill Bettendorf IA 285 9/8/2021Iowa State Carter Fousek Crestwood IA 125/133 9/19/2021Iowa Ben Kueter (c/o 2023) Iowa City High IA 285 9/6/2021Northern Iowa Garrett Funk Don Bosco IA 125/133 11/1/2021Stanford Hunter Garvin Iowa City West IA 157 10/10/2021Iowa Aiden Riggins Waverly Shell-Rock IA 165/174 10/10/2021Iowa Mickey Griffith Des Moines-Lincoln IA 184 10/12/2021Iowa Carter Martinson Southeast Polk IA 141/149 10/12/2021Iowa Carson Martinson Southeast Polk IA 149/157 10/11/2021Iowa Easton Fleshman West Lyon IA 285 10/11/2021Iowa Jace Rhodes Mason City IA 141/149 10/15/2021Iowa Ryder Block (c/o 2023) Waverly-Shell Rock IA 157 11/24/2021Virginia Gabe Christenson Southeast Polk (via Iowa) IA 197 11/4/2021Iowa Joel Jesuroga Southeast Polk IA 149 11/7/2021Iowa State Tate Naaktgeboren (c/o 2023) Linn-Mar IA 184 3/1/2021Northern Iowa Chet Buss North Butler-Clarksville IA 285 1/7/2022North Carolina Cade Tenold Don Bosco IA 174/184 11/14/2021Campbell Hagen Heistand Underwood IA 141/149 11/15/2021Northern Iowa Trever Anderson Ankeny IA 125 2/1/2022SIU Edwardsville Marcel Lopez New London IA 133 7/13/2021Columbia Evan Frost Dowling Catholic IA 133 7/13/2021Columbia Jacob Frost Dowling Catholic IA 133
I think a big difference is the amount of mat wrestling they do in PA and OH. Iowa and Illinois do a lot of freestyle and greco in the summer and the PA and OH schools do not. The time spent on the mat translates into more D1 success - IMHOKids from Iowa are rarely making the transition from Iowa HS dominance to College level dominance anymore.
Whereas, PA Kids are.
What's the difference?
Interesting…I think a big difference is the amount of mat wrestling they do in PA and OH. Iowa and Illinois do a lot of freestyle and greco in the summer and the PA and OH schools do not. The time spent on the mat translates into more D1 success - IMHO
I agree with this. I feel the state, from a national perspective, has made a resurgence and has a lot of quality wrestling. We had a good number of nationally ranked recruits competing at the state tournament this year.Iowa HS wrestling is actually in the midst of a resurgence. No doubt it was down over a 10 year stretch but that has turned around.
Iowa kids are competing and ranked highly at much higher numbers and that is very likely a direct result of clubs like Sebolt, Big Game and others.
I hope that resurgence leads to better college performances because it appears we are bringing in a bunch of in-state recruits again.
Regardless Iowa wrestling still needs to be recruiting PA, regionally and nationally for recruits.
This is one of the best measuresA quick check had 12 Pa. kids achieving AA status this year, one from Iowa. I think Pa. lost 20 kids in the blood round, not sure about Iowa there.
True and frankly Iowa highschool kids have not been exactly overpopulating the AA ledgers for a while. Would be wise to keep that in mind when trying to build a championship team.This is one of the best measures
Sure, let's punish the recent/current crop of Iowa H.S. kids because previous classes didn't produce. Something they have absolutely nothing to do with.True and frankly Iowa highschool kids have not been exactly overpopulating the AA ledgers for a while. Would be wise to keep that in mind when trying to build a championship team.
I'm not saying punish anyone but they would be stupid not to keep it in mind. Be really sure in their choices.Sure, let's punish the recent/current crop of Iowa H.S. kids because previous classes didn't produce. Something they have absolutely nothing to do with.
I think the Iowa Hawkeye's recent, current and future rosters clearly reflects Iowa's feelings toward in-state kids.