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"Iowa is the team that I think can be more optimistic...

Vallholl

HB Legend
Feb 2, 2013
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than before the brackets rolled out."

By Willie Saylor

Iowa is the team that I think can be more optimistic than before the brackets rolled out. Even if you don’t buy the end-of-the-rainbow scenario for Cooper that I painted above, think of this: Gilman is safe, Clark is safe, Sorenson is safe, Brooks got the gift of a lifetime, Burak is fine, and Stoll, under the circumstances, has a dream draw.

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/40234-team-race-shake-up
 
I...[gulp]...agree with Willie Saylor. Never thought I'd say those words but it is oddly freeing, like a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders. Now I'll just have to see if I can find something nice to say about TR Foley.
 
I just don't buy the Brooks getting a gift. Before the brackets come out the talking heads pretty much said after Dean it is anyone's case for the seeds. Then Brooks get it and they blow a lid.

Well who better than the guy that just walked through the hardest conference tournament in the country? Yes Yes I know the EIWA is pretty tough at 184, but Dean won that and got the 1.

They keep throwing out how ZZ got the shaft, but just ignore his unanswered losses to

Ab x 2 = 3rd in B1G
Zilmer = 2nd in Big 12
McC = 5th in B1G

Guys that Brooks beat or placed ahead of at conference.

At B1G Brooks beat Courts returing AA and #11 at one point in Flos rankings. McC #3 like a week ago in Flos rankings, Dudley #6 at one point in Flos rankings.

Brooks made his own bed. If he goes in and pisses down his leg like McC at the B1Gs he probably ends up around the 16th seed himself. With 184 being so close between the guys ranked from 2-15 everyone knew that the conference tournaments were going to be huge. Everyone I guess except the people that analyze this stuff for a living.
 
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it was a nice article by little willie, but if iowa wrestles lights out and gets 1st or even 2nd its because they got great draws and penn st got shafted or maybe i'm reading between the lines.

I don't get that from the article. I do think Brooks got a great draw. That being said, someone had to get a great draw, it just happened to be him. Enjoy the good fortune. When things are close, the guy getting the job done at the end of the year is going to get the breaks. Sammy got it done at the BIGs, so he got the break or the great draw. Of course, the mullet probably had some subconscious effects on the committee, although they would never admit it.
 
I...[gulp]...agree with Willie Saylor. Never thought I'd say those words but it is oddly freeing, like a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders. Now I'll just have to see if I can find something nice to say about TR Foley.

I understand your confusion and release from hiding a secret. :rolleyes:

Now see if you can get Trump to do the same thing and unburden his conscience about Rosie O Donnell. :eek:
 
Seems like the consi bracket setups changed from the last few years. Conaway has a much easier road to AA with the current years consi bracketing even if he losses to Taylor he has a pretty open road all the way through the bloodround unless someone gets upset.
 
Brooks got the gift of a lifetime,

This is untrue on so many levels
1) after Dean you could throw about 12 guys in a hat and draw, the margins are razor thin
2) Since they are not going to do that, Brooks has as good a case for 2 as anyone

3) getting the 2 here is no real big advantage, 3 looks to be easier . Even at 2 second round we have the guy that just put a beating on flos #2 from 2 weeks ago. This weight goes 16 deep draws are not that important at this weight. Who ever gets hot, and wins some extremely close matches is going to the finals. I mean truly,would anyone feel any differently, about Brooks chances if he was the 7 and Dudley, or Aboundader was the 2? I know I
wouldn't
4) I think gift of a lifetime, should maybe go to Mayes (this year and last) whos coach is on the committee
5) It seems these seeds were done by the formula the committee set up, but used some conman sense in some situations
they obviously moved Imar to 1(thank you committee) and moved Snyder to 2 (thank you again).. other than that they mostly stuck with the formula, unless there was an obvious reason to change it . In previous years they stuck with their formula,come hell or high water no matter how bad it screwed up the bracket
See what happens when you replace Tom Minkle with Tom Ryan on the committee, conman sense and the sport of wrestling, and he fans are actually the ones who got the gift of a lifetime!

 
I agree with Willie about everything except Brooks. He is lucky to be at the 2, but it doesn't do him that much good. Brown is way too low seeded at the 10, and Dudley is dangerous. I don't think Sammy Brooks draw is very good at all.
 
Seems like the consi bracket setups changed from the last few years. Conaway has a much easier road to AA with the current years consi bracketing even if he losses to Taylor he has a pretty open road all the way through the bloodround unless someone gets upset.
Conaway if he loses to Taylor, he'll have to face the loser of Dicamillo/Richards in the blood round. Dicamillo had him all but beat at the scuffle, then melted down and gave up a last second TD for the win. Conaway certainly is no lock to AA.
 
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Conaway if he loses to Taylor, he'll have to face the loser of Dicamillo/Richards in the blood round. Dicamillo had him all but beat at the scuffle, then melted down and gave up a last second TD for the win. Conaway certainly is no lock to AA.
Not according to this http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/03/10/2016_diwr_brackets.pdf

he will most likely have to face Palmer/ Cam Kelly in consi round of 16, then DiJulious or Montoya in Bloodround. All guys i would put him as huge favorites against. Then he would face Dicamillo/Richards to get to the consi semis

If he wins against Taylor and then losses to Brewer he most likely has to beat one of the following in bloodround Alber, DiJulious or Montoya. I would say he has a high probability of placing unless someone gets upset.
 
Not according to this http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/03/10/2016_diwr_brackets.pdf

he will most likely have to face Palmer/ Cam Kelly in consi round of 16, then DiJulious or Montoya in Bloodround. All guys i would put him as huge favorites against. Then he would face Dicamillo/Richards to get to the consi semis

If he wins against Taylor and then losses to Brewer he most likely has to beat one of the following in bloodround Alber, DiJulious or Montoya. I would say he has a high probability of placing unless someone gets upset.
You're right, CP and willie said he'd have to face Richards/dicamillo loser in R12, so I took their word for it without looking into the bracket yet. Hopefully he doesn't go any higher than the 7/8 match.
 
Not according to this http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/images/2016/03/10/2016_diwr_brackets.pdf

he will most likely have to face Palmer/ Cam Kelly in consi round of 16, then DiJulious or Montoya in Bloodround. All guys i would put him as huge favorites against. Then he would face Dicamillo/Richards to get to the consi semis

If he wins against Taylor and then losses to Brewer he most likely has to beat one of the following in bloodround Alber, DiJulious or Montoya. I would say he has a high probability of placing unless someone gets upset.


Well, he is seeded 5th, I would expect him to AA.
 
Of course, but when you are expected to loss to the 12 seed that certainly isn't the case. if the consi brackets were like last year he would have had a much tougher tougher time AAing.

Yes, so he would have to go through the 13 seed and then either the 7 or 10 seed. Just like what you would have expected the 12 seed to do.
 
Of course, but when you are expected to loss to the 12 seed that certainly isn't the case. if the consi brackets were like last year he would have had a much tougher tougher time AAing.

I just pulled up 2015 and 2016 brackets side by side and they look the same. Can you explain what you see that is different?
 
Looks like I messed up. Thought they had different cross bracketing. When I tried to go off the previous years I had the same thing that the flo guys had
 
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it was a nice article by little willie, but if iowa wrestles lights out and gets 1st or even 2nd its because they got great draws and penn st got shafted or maybe i'm reading between the lines.
Don't care. Iowa beating Penn State for the national title would be fine with me, however it came about......
 
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I agree with those who say Willie is overblowing this "gift of a lifetime" for Brooks. In some brackets, a 2 seed for a guy like Sammy who's had a couple of head-scratching losses recently would, indeed, be a huge gift. However, we all know that 184 is pretty much a crap shoot from 2 to 12 or so. The 2 seed looks great on paper, but the road to Saturday night won't really be easier than any other seed opposite Dean. No doubt Sammy and his mullet are up to the task, but that would have been the case with several other seeds. I'd say the main advantage of the 2 seed for Sammy is that, this way, he doesn't have to beat Dean until it's for all the marbles.
 
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While I totally agree that the 2-12 seeds are a "crap shoot" and that the main advantage you don't have to face Dean until Saturday Night, I would add 3) It's pretty cool to be the 2 seed.

And if Brooks jumped that much by winning the B1Gs, it is still odd that Burak isn't the #3, but overall, there are good matchups. Now, the Hawkeyes need to take advantage...
 
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Everyone acts like it is a mystery why Brooks got the 2 and Burak at 4. Brooks had no head to head net losses in the matrix. That is huge, it accounts for 25% of the scoring in each matrix matchup (It is one of the most cut and dry seeding factors). Most of the other top guys had bad unanswered losses, and or lack of quality wins. That also means that in most matrix match ups he probably had a favorable common opponent record, another 10% and he placed 1st in his conference another 10% against most guys. I saw this coming a mile away.

Burak was hurt by his lack of quality wins 20% of the seeding criteria. I think this is what pushed Pfarr over him. Now if this is what the matrix pumped out I think it could have been totally understandable for the committee to move Burak over Pfarr, if he was close enough in matrix points to allow it. But do we think a committee that consisted of the head coaches of Mizzu and tOSU, 2 teams that I am sure think they have a shot at the title, are going to make a big stink about Burak being the 4 when that means most likely if forces Iowa vs PSU in the semis and gives the Mizzu guy an easier route to the finals?

What bugs me about Flos breakdown of the seedings is they bitch but don't actually dive into the reason why the person was seeded where they were. They are just mad that they don't match up with their biased rankings, and don't suggest tweaks that could improve the system.

Why don't they dive into why a Brooks is 2 or Avery 3. Instead of just saying it is stupid. He is 2 because it is advantageous to not have a loss on your record that you don't also have a win over the guy. Avery is 3 because he has a high win % (10%), he placed high last year and is being ranked high still in coaches poll (15%). He only had 1 head to head loss and he may have still beat that guy (zz) in the matrix matchup on the strength of other criteria. I am not saying that these are 100% right but I can say for sure they are as good as any criteria Pyles is using at 184.

- Did they ever release the last coaches poll? This is a pretty big deal. It is 15% of the seeding critria and for sure ends up being the difference in many of the matrix matchups. They never even mentioned this

- Did they release the last RPI? What the f is the RPI and how is it calculated

- common opponents - What does this mean? is it your winning % vs your matrix opponents winning % common opponents? we don't know.

- Conference placing? Is this only used when you are in the same conference? or if you place 1st at the EIWA you get 10% in the matrix over a guy that places 2nd in the B1G?

- Quality wins? Were they weighted? If so how were they weighted? did 2 wins over the same quality guy count or just 1 of them?

Is there some logical way that losses could be factored in more? Or are they getting counted enough with win %, Head to Head, Common Opp, Coaches polls, Conference placing...

I actually think the matrix did a pretty good job. I trust it a hell of a lot more than a biased cpyles ranking or coaches poll.

I think if we dug into the actual matrix weighted criteria and were able to run some different scenarios with different weights and criteria we could get a very good system.
 
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While I totally agree that the 2-12 seeds are a "crap shoot" and that the main advantage you don't have to face Dean until Saturday Night, I would add 3) It's pretty cool to be the 2 seed.

And if Brooks jumped that much by winning the B1Gs, it is still odd that Burak isn't the #3, but overall, there are good matchups. Now, the Hawkeyes need to take advantage...
Man, the injury bug has been cruel to the Hawks in recent years. If Gwiz hadn't gotten Sam's leg in the air and cranked on it, Sam would have a nice seed with a great shot at a top 5 finish and I'd think we might actually have a fighting chance at a team title this year.
 
Man, the injury bug has been cruel to the Hawks in recent years. If Gwiz hadn't gotten Sam's leg in the air and cranked on it, Sam would have a nice seed with a great shot at a top 5 finish and I'd think we might actually have a fighting chance at a team title this year.
Well the season isn't over. Plenty of time for the injury bug to zap PSU or Iowa even more. If one of PSU's big dogs got dinged up bad in the first couple rounds this thing is wide open. We have had that happen. People fight every position at nationals, it can lead to injuries.

Unlike many of the great teams over the year, I do not think PSU has enough bullets in the chamber to withstand something crazy like that.
 
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THEY always make excuses when Iowa wins. What would be any different.

Man, the injury bug has been cruel to the Hawks in recent years. If Gwiz hadn't gotten Sam's leg in the air and cranked on it, Sam would have a nice seed with a great shot at a top 5 finish and I'd think we might actually have a fighting chance at a team title this year.

Those two posts, back-to-back in the thread, are kind of humorous/ironic. Just saying.
 
Everyone acts like it is a mystery why Brooks got the 2 and Burak at 4. Brooks had no head to head net losses in the matrix. That is huge, it accounts for 25% of the scoring in each matrix matchup (It is one of the most cut and dry seeding factors). Most of the other top guys had bad unanswered losses, and or lack of quality wins. That also means that in most matrix match ups he probably had a favorable common opponent record, another 10% and he placed 1st in his conference another 10% against most guys. I saw this coming a mile away.

Burak was hurt by his lack of quality wins 20% of the seeding criteria. I think this is what pushed Pfarr over him. Now if this is what the matrix pumped out I think it could have been totally understandable for the committee to move Burak over Pfarr, if he was close enough in matrix points to allow it. But do we think a committee that consisted of the head coaches of Mizzu and tOSU, 2 teams that I am sure think they have a shot at the title, are going to make a big stink about Burak being the 4 when that means most likely if forces Iowa vs PSU in the semis and gives the Mizzu guy an easier route to the finals?

What bugs me about Flos breakdown of the seedings is they bitch but don't actually dive into the reason why the person was seeded where they were. They are just mad that they don't match up with their biased rankings, and don't suggest tweaks that could improve the system.

Why don't they dive into why a Brooks is 2 or Avery 3. Instead of just saying it is stupid. He is 2 because it is advantageous to not have a loss on your record that you don't also have a win over the guy. Avery is 3 because he has a high win % (10%), he placed high last year and is being ranked high still in coaches poll (15%). He only had 1 head to head loss and he may have still beat that guy (zz) in the matrix matchup on the strength of other criteria. I am not saying that these are 100% right but I can say for sure they are as good as any criteria Pyles is using at 184.

- Did they ever release the last coaches poll? This is a pretty big deal. It is 15% of the seeding critria and for sure ends up being the difference in many of the matrix matchups. They never even mentioned this

- Did they release the last RPI? What the f is the RPI and how is it calculated

- common opponents - What does this mean? is it your winning % vs your matrix opponents winning % common opponents? we don't know.

- Conference placing? Is this only used when you are in the same conference? or if you place 1st at the EIWA you get 10% in the matrix over a guy that places 2nd in the B1G?

- Quality wins? Were they weighted? If so how were they weighted? did 2 wins over the same quality guy count or just 1 of them?

Is there some logical way that losses could be factored in more? Or are they getting counted enough with win %, Head to Head, Common Opp, Coaches polls, Conference placing...

I actually think the matrix did a pretty good job. I trust it a hell of a lot more than a biased cpyles ranking or coaches poll.

I think if we dug into the actual matrix weighted criteria and were able to run some different scenarios with different weights and criteria we could get a very good system.
This is a fantastic post and should be required reading for everyone. More transparency by the seeding committee would answer a lot of questions.
 
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