Iowa - ISU lineup comparison using advanced metrics

[CP84]

Comparing both rosters using win shares per 40.

IOWA
Uthoff .245
Jok .199
Baer .190
Woodbury .187
Uhl .185
Wagner .176
Gesell .174
Clemmons .122
Ellingson .112

ISU
Niang .211
Morris .210
Burton .189
McKay .176
Nader .122
Thomas .118
Cooke .089

Pretty clearly shows ISU's lineup is very top heavy possessing 2 stars and 2 quality players and little depth (4 total players > .170).

Iowa has 1 star, 1 borderline star and 5 other highly efficient players. It's impressive to have 3 guys with incredible efficiency in Uhl, Baer and Wagner coming off the bench. That's been as crucial as the improvement from Uthoff and Jok. Both very good teams but I like the depth Iowa has going into March.

 

[Lone Clone]

Comparing both rosters using win shares per 40.

IOWA
Uthoff .245
Jok .199
Baer .190
Woodbury .187
Uhl .185
Wagner .176
Gesell .174
Clemmons .122
Ellingson .112

ISU
Niang .211
Morris .210
Burton .189
McKay .176
Nader .122
Thomas .118
Cooke .089

Pretty clearly shows ISU's lineup is very top heavy possessing 2 stars and 2 quality players and little depth (4 total players > .170).

Iowa has 1 star, 1 borderline star and 5 other highly efficient players. It's impressive to have 3 guys with incredible efficiency in Uhl, Baer and Wagner coming off the bench. That's been as crucial as the improvement from Uthoff and Jok. Both very good teams but I like the depth Iowa has going into March.

I confess I do not understand the criteria, but whatever it is, it's bogus if it shows Matt Thomas that low. He's having a terrific year in all phases of the game. And Burton is ranked awfully high, considering he's basically disappeared in about half the games he's played in. Obviously, the depth situation is much better for Iowa.

 

[amahawk]

The Hawkeyes blew a 20 pt lead at Ames and lost. It is time to quit worrying about ISU.

 

[DanL53]

Crud!!! We didn't have a single thread on the front page that had anything to do with ISU!!!

I was enjoying that.

By the way, CP84, Why DID you join Hawkeye Report on 9/10/2013 when the Iowa/Iowa State game was coming up on 9/14? Coincidence?

 

[DarkThunder#61]

I already knew that Iowa > Iowa State.

This was just stating the obvious...

 

[MepoDawg#]

Who cares. They played one game vs each other and don't play the same schedule. Iowa blew a 20 point lead partly due to ISU and partly due to Iowa. Iowa may not be playing like they are today without that loss. Let it go, both teams are good. Statistics don't mean everything when comparing if you're not playing identical schedules.

 

[DodgerHawki]

I confess I do not understand the criteria, but whatever it is, it's bogus if it shows Matt Thomas that low. He's having a terrific year in all phases of the game. And Burton is ranked awfully high, considering he's basically disappeared in about half the games he's played in. Obviously, the depth situation is much better for Iowa.

Lone, I would agree that Thomas is very good (and underrated as a player). The advanced metrics aren't quite as effective in measuring defensive efficiency as they are on offense (in my opinion). Basketball Reference has an explanation of how both are calculated here.

Burton is ranked so high due to shooting 54% on 2's, 50% on 3's, and he gets to the line at a better rate than even Niang (on a per-40 minute basis). Thomas shoots less than 1 FT per game.

 

[CP84]

I confess I do not understand the criteria, but whatever it is, it's bogus if it shows Matt Thomas that low. He's having a terrific year in all phases of the game. And Burton is ranked awfully high, considering he's basically disappeared in about half the games he's played in. Obviously, the depth situation is much better for Iowa.

WS/40 is a great tool for gauging efficiency on both ends of the court. Typical statistics like PPG mean very little. For example, look at the NBA career of Ricky Davis. Most would look at his 13.5 career average ppg and assume he was a solid player. The reality is he had a well below average WS/48 of .061 because he was a chucker that played little defense.

Burton has a decent WS/48 because like Baer he is very efficient on both ends of the court. Matt Thomas only has Player Efficiency Rating (PER) of 13. Burton has a PER of 22.

 

[CP84]

By the way, CP84, Why DID you join Hawkeye Report on 9/10/2013 when the Iowa/Iowa State game was coming up on 9/14? Coincidence?

I doubt it. I previously posted on one of the other sites and made the switch here. I primarily join to participate in wrestling chat since this board has the best forum for Hawkeye Wrestling. Perhaps my first post was about Iowa ISU football though, I don't remember. Maybe as a coincidence, you joined two days after I did to complain about me mentioning ISU.

 

[CyCity]

WS/40 is a great tool for gauging efficiency on both ends of the court. Typical statistics like PPG mean very little. For example, look at the NBA career of Ricky Davis. Most would look at his 13.5 career average ppg and assume he was a solid player. The reality is he had a well below average WS/48 of .061 because he was a chucker that played little defense.

Burton has a decent WS/48 because like Baer he is very efficient on both ends of the court. Matt Thomas only has Player Efficiency Rating (PER) of 13. Burton has a PER of 22.

Thomas is a lot better at defense than Burton. Burton is ISU's worst defender

 

[yerpHAWK]

Who cares. They played one game vs each other and don't play the same schedule. Iowa blew a 20 point lead partly due to ISU and partly due to Iowa. Iowa may not be playing like they are today without that loss. Let it go, both teams are good. Statistics don't mean everything when comparing if you're not playing identical schedules.

Agreed. Iowa losing that game was a revolution for the team.

 

[CP84]

Thomas is a lot better at defense than Burton. Burton is ISU's worst defender

You're absolutely right. I misread earlier. When you look at box plus/minus Burton's score is very lopsided on the offensive side. He has a good offensive box of +4.8 (3rd best on the team) but his defensive box is only 0.3 which is worse than any player with over 100 minutes other than Naz Long. Matt Thomas is 3.1 offensive box and 1.3 defensive, so his defense is pretty shaky as well.

 

[agr1858]

You're absolutely right. I misread earlier. When you look at box plus/minus Burton's score is very lopsided on the offensive side. He has a good offensive box of +4.8 (3rd best on the team) but his defensive box is only 0.3 which is worse than any player with over 100 minutes other than Naz Long. Matt Thomas is 3.1 offensive box and 1.3 defensive, so his defense is pretty shaky as well.

How is defense figured? Thomas guards the other team's best player most games. The best defensive game he's had was the game he guarded Hield, who scored 27 pts but it took him 23 shots to do it.

 

[DarkThunder#61]

Who cares. They played one game vs each other and don't play the same schedule. Iowa blew a 20 point lead partly due to ISU and partly due to Iowa. Iowa may not be playing like they are today without that loss. Let it go, both teams are good. Statistics don't mean everything when comparing if you're not playing identical schedules.

Yeah!!!............................and also Iowa > Iowa State

 

[Vbeachawk]

Thomas also took Uthoff out of the Iowa game in the 2nd half this season and his offense was critical to their success in that game.