http://news.theopenmat.com/college-wrestling-news/59575/59575
Basically talk about what we've all been talking about since March.
Basically talk about what we've all been talking about since March.
Iowa Preview on TOM
- Thread starter LaxHawk174
- Start date
What do you think the lineup looks like with Stoll out?
125 - Gilman
133 - Clark
141 - Turk
149 - Sorensen
157 - Kemerer
165 - Paddock (Marinelli)
174 - Meyer
184 - Wilcke
197 - Brooks
285 - Holloway
If he's really out till Midlands, which most, I'm assuming, would expect, here are the duals that we'd have for Brooks to try 197.
(I don't have Perma Compare done yet, so you'll have to swap out the guys at 184, 197, 285)
11/18 (x3) Iowa City Duals
11/27 Purdue - Brooks vs Lynde (MD 16 - 3) http://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/dual/34/iowa/64/purdue
12/02 SDSU - Brooks vs #6 Rotert (Dec 9 - 4) http://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/dual/34/iowa/68/south-dakota-state
12/10 ISU - Brooks vs Harrington (MD 12 - 3) - http://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/dual/34/iowa/35/iowa-state
(Keep in mind, the prediction engine is assuming all weights are equal...I kind of doubt he'd beat Rotert, but I'd bet it would be a very close match)
125 - Gilman
133 - Clark
141 - Turk
149 - Sorensen
157 - Kemerer
165 - Paddock (Marinelli)
174 - Meyer
184 - Wilcke
197 - Brooks
285 - Holloway
If he's really out till Midlands, which most, I'm assuming, would expect, here are the duals that we'd have for Brooks to try 197.
(I don't have Perma Compare done yet, so you'll have to swap out the guys at 184, 197, 285)
11/18 (x3) Iowa City Duals
11/27 Purdue - Brooks vs Lynde (MD 16 - 3) http://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/dual/34/iowa/64/purdue
12/02 SDSU - Brooks vs #6 Rotert (Dec 9 - 4) http://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/dual/34/iowa/68/south-dakota-state
12/10 ISU - Brooks vs Harrington (MD 12 - 3) - http://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/dual/34/iowa/35/iowa-state
(Keep in mind, the prediction engine is assuming all weights are equal...I kind of doubt he'd beat Rotert, but I'd bet it would be a very close match)
My apologies for not being clear. The potential movement of Meyer and Brooks came from information provided by the school. If I am missing other facts, please let me know.
This is the first that I have heard "it came from the school." It's not what I've heard coming out of the room.
OMG! I can see it now...vs ISU. Brooks is avoiding PD3.
I thought Morningstar stated Stoll would be ready to go at the start of the year. But I might be wrong.
He pretty much did say that and that Stoll thinks he is ready. Then said "but we're taking it slow"
The article was fine. Also the first I've heard that coaches would consider bumping Brooks to 197 in early season. The question is valid: given the huge logjam of talent at 184, and the fact that Holloway is unlikely to score points at 197, could we score more points with Brooks at the relatively more wide-open 197?
I think the answer is probably no. Put him at his best weight and put the onus on him to win. But I'd love to see him wrestle #6 Rotert in the Iowa Duals, just to see, you know? If he loses or it's a tight win, then he should stay at 184. Low AA at 197 doesn't help us. But if he techs or pins him...just saying.
Can I just add that it sure would've been nice if Burak could've redshirted at some point and we had him for one more season. (Which I will be saying next year about Gilman and Clark.)
I think the answer is probably no. Put him at his best weight and put the onus on him to win. But I'd love to see him wrestle #6 Rotert in the Iowa Duals, just to see, you know? If he loses or it's a tight win, then he should stay at 184. Low AA at 197 doesn't help us. But if he techs or pins him...just saying.
Can I just add that it sure would've been nice if Burak could've redshirted at some point and we had him for one more season. (Which I will be saying next year about Gilman and Clark.)
Moving either Meyers or Brooks up for any period of time is a horrible idea. There aren't going to be any duals to worry about losing in that timeframe, whether Stoll is there or not. Neither is some juggernaut that have been owning the weight class they are currently in, so put them in where they belong and get on with it.
Couldn't agree more. Not in college, but I have seen many HS coaches outsmart themselves playing with lineups, and this would be worse IMO
I might be missing something here but both Gilman and Clark redshirted as true freshmen.
I don't think they've announced what's sure to be a killer lineup for the Iowa Duals yet but I'd doubt SD State/Rotert will be in it, given Iowa wrestles @ SD State in December and it isn't on SD State's schedule.
Calling it a "horrible idea" for "any" period of time seems rather overboard. Iowa has done it in the past for a few duals and it hardly had an effect on the season. If they don't want Stoll to wrestle in the IC Duals, for instance, it wouldn't hurt to move a couple of guys up to fill HWT.
IMO, Brandon is better match-up wise with Zain. At 57, there are a few almost as slick guys as Nolf. Bird in hand second place isn't anything to mess with especially this year.
What makes you think that the above scenario is any more likely than Brandon 2nd at 149 and Kemerer 2nd at 157? There is one less variable with Brandon staying at 149, and Kemerer has a bigger frame anyway
At 57, I feel Brandon is a 4-6 place at nationals. Agree about 2nd for Kem at 49 but feel 57 is the place for him. A more natural weight
Well, that's your opinion. Mine is it's a horrible idea. Get to the weight you're expected to be at and start wrestling. The better bet is to have some solid backups and let the chips fall where they may, the fact they don't have that at HWT. doesn't make it some "must do" scenario waiting for Stoll's return.
Aside from the fact we need a 197 lber, preferably someone who wrestles other 197 lbers to get his feet wet and see how he fares, and gets used to wrestling 197 lbers. Someone like Holloway who was recruited to do just that.
I don't think a Final of 50-6 in the Iowa City Duals is something I'll lose sleep over.
Just meant that I'm going to miss Gilman and Clark next year, not that they have a redshirt to take.
And I am persuaded by the near-unanimous sentiment that Brooks should stay at 184. Case closed, thought experiment ended.
I'm interested in the possibility of Brooks going to 197 and staying there. Don't know if it's feasible, but I know 184 is ridiculous.
Points taken but why forfeit an opportunity to give a young guy mat time? Holloway wrestled 197 all last year and he has the whole rest of the year including a couple of early individual tournaments to "get used to" wrestling 197 pounders.
Fwiw, I'm not advocating Brooks and Wilcke not make 184 or Holloway not make 197.
Who won't be getting the mat time? Wilcke? He's a backup for Brooks is he not? He can get his mat time at GrandView and Luther like the other backups always do, or he can sub in for Brooks at the Iowa Duals if they feel like it I guess. What or whom am I missing?
Meyers - 174
Brooks - 184
Holloway - 197
Stoll or Nobody - HWT.
As far as I'm concerned that's the optimal lineup until we have an available HWT., or really need to make a decision to win a dual meet somewhere along the line, which doesn't seem plausible for the timelines given for Big Sam's return. I realize people don't like forfeits, and neither do I, but under the current circumstances it looks like "for the greater good" type of thing to me. But I've been wrong before so no big deal.
Aside from our depth issues at our two biggest weights, I don't want our 184 or 197 lb presumed starters getting potentially ragdolled by heavier guys from Coe or anywhere else when it isn't necessary. Key word being Starters and necessary. It's a different kettle of fish if a Kris Klapprodt fills in every now and again for a Starter at any weight he's willing to go, or throw the guys like Kris (who work their hind ends off) a bone every now and again when able. Yes, the odds are slim something bad happens, but why chance it when you don't have to? There's enough injuries wrestling guys your own size.
Plus we collectively piss and moan about undersized guys being "forced" into the lineup as it is, year after year it seems. 2 of our better guys want to wrestle the same weight and they don't bother "bulking up" in the off-season even though the next weight is wide open, don't know who is going where and how they'll fit, then we try to make it fit in December or later. That's a piss-poor strategy IMO. It must be because we haven't won jack in a while.
I just want guys to wrestle at their "natural" wrestling weight where they are projected to be at come March and wrestle there all year long. That's it and that's all. That seems like what good teams do when they have their best lineup available from start to finish, and they don't deter from that if they don't have to (we can live without a HWT. early on - everybody else stay where they belong).
Right or wrong, that's my opinion, or personal preference if you will, and I am sticking to it.
Now Tommy might see it completely different, and if he does, that's how it will go. For all we know he bumps Meyer up to HWT. because he "rolls better" with Big Boys. IDK, pick a reason. I'm for getting your lineup set with your KNOWN Starters and roll with it from Day One.
You may be right.
Holloway will very likely see some time at Heavyweight and I think it is a great idea. This will give him an idea if that is where he wants to end up. I am curious to see how he fares there. He will be way more athletic than 99% of the heavyweights out there. Recent history has shown that a strong, athletic sub 230 pound guy can be very successful. This allows Warner to step in at 97 and Wilke stay at his more natural weight.
Who won't be getting the mat time? Wilcke? He's a backup for Brooks is he not? He can get his mat time at GrandView and Luther like the other backups always do, or he can sub in for Brooks at the Iowa Duals if they feel like it I guess. What or whom am I missing?
Meyers - 174
Brooks - 184
Holloway - 197
Stoll or Nobody - HWT.
As far as I'm concerned that's the optimal lineup until we have an available HWT., or really need to make a decision to win a dual meet somewhere along the line, which doesn't seem plausible for the timelines given for Big Sam's return. I realize people don't like forfeits, and neither do I, but under the current circumstances it looks like "for the greater good" type of thing to me. But I've been wrong before so no big deal.
Aside from our depth issues at our two biggest weights, I don't want our 184 or 197 lb presumed starters getting potentially ragdolled by heavier guys from Coe or anywhere else when it isn't necessary. Key word being Starters and necessary. It's a different kettle of fish if a Kris Klapprodt fills in every now and again for a Starter at any weight he's willing to go, or throw the guys like Kris (who work their hind ends off) a bone every now and again when able. Yes, the odds are slim something bad happens, but why chance it when you don't have to? There's enough injuries wrestling guys your own size.
Plus we collectively piss and moan about undersized guys being "forced" into the lineup as it is, year after year it seems. 2 of our better guys want to wrestle the same weight and they don't bother "bulking up" in the off-season even though the next weight is wide open, don't know who is going where and how they'll fit, then we try to make it fit in December or later. That's a piss-poor strategy IMO. It must be because we haven't won jack in a while.
I just want guys to wrestle at their "natural" wrestling weight where they are projected to be at come March and wrestle there all year long. That's it and that's all. That seems like what good teams do when they have their best lineup available from start to finish, and they don't deter from that if they don't have to (we can live without a HWT. early on - everybody else stay where they belong).
Right or wrong, that's my opinion, or personal preference if you will, and I am sticking to it.
Now Tommy might see it completely different, and if he does, that's how it will go. For all we know he bumps Meyer up to HWT. because he "rolls better" with Big Boys. IDK, pick a reason. I'm for getting your lineup set with your KNOWN Starters and roll with it from Day One.
It is hardly unheard of for "good teams" go have guys move around a bit, especially early in the year. And yes, I think it is good for Wilcke to get mat time in an Iowa singlet as a starter in CHA at 184 or 197 or both versus not filling a weight and have no fear any of our guys would get rag dolled. And to hit on your last point, part of the challenge here is that I'm not sure there is a "known" starter at 197 at this point.
At the end of the day, I respect your opinion even if we do not agree.
Well he should probably make the following accounts just in preparation. Following this season he can use '24 so far', then following the 2019 ncaas '25 so far', and by the end of Spencer Lees eligibility something like '28 so far'.
Fair enough. There's just a whole boatload of "fail" going on that we're even having this discussion.
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