I’d be ok with that too. Does anyone know how close the 3rd place runner was? Was there a chance he could have made up the distance on the final lap?
Iowa State Class 1A 3200 meter controversy
- Thread starter Colonel Homer
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I’d be ok with that too. Does anyone know how close the 3rd place runner was? Was there a chance he could have made up the distance on the final lap?
They awarded places based on where everyone was after 7 laps. Some boys went into full kick on the 7th, a few did not since they knew it wasn’t the last lap. No way to know what the order would have been had it been run correctly
I tell you the real winner today is the city of Portland. Every time we come here it gets harder to leave. I bet you guys put something in the water.
Hey...in the scheme of things....shit happens. The person(s) responsible probably feel as bad as anyone. It was a big mistake on a very public stage. But after experiencing a few of these in Iowa High School state activities, I am not surprised at what happened and at the resolution. But, regardless, someone was going to be screwed and pissed.
They need to keep the integrity of the race at 8 laps.
Otherwise about 10 kids just broke the all time state record.
Not really..a simple declaratory act by the Association will take care of that or any other confusion.
So you are saying your friend's son personally qualified in the 3200, 1600, 800, and 4 X 800 at the district meet? If so that is impressive.
What I was talking bout could be outdated but a decadish ago BOB (Boys Of Boone) still allowed the corrupt practice of district winners being merely qualification spots. The actual spots could be filled by anyone on the team. This was an awful practice. What happened was that since the state meet spanned over multiple days and qualification was limited to one day you had the fastest kids on the team filling in all the qualification spots.....not the kid who actually qualified. Sometimes when this happened the coach would name the kid who qualified as an alternate to run the race if the faster kid could not. Some bone to the kid who actually was the one who qualified.
Fueling this bad situation was that coaches would sometime plot beforehand which district races they would stack with their "A" runners and which they would run their "B" runners in. The plan was that by working together the coaches could maximize the number of events their "A" list runners could participate in at the state meet.
Had one of my kids who ran track through middle school and his freshman year. He actually was pretty good and with commitment and hard work would probably have been a state qualifier later...….but that didn't happen. He dropped track to focus on baseball (non school in the spring). His comment at the time was that baseball was his passion. After his graduation we once talked about his choice. He did admit that the state qualification process also was a factor. He stated that he wanted nothing to do with either losing or winning a state berth by these rules.
I had written BOB about this and also chatted with Bernie about it. Bernie's response was careful and I could tell he had been asked about this before. His response was,"Doesn't seem right but it is what the coaches want".
Yes, he was an auto-qualifier in the 3200, and on time in the 1600/800/4x800 (my son ran the 4x8 with him and in the 800).
I can tell you nothing has changed (qualification wise) since my older son ran track in HS (graduated in 2015) nor has it changed since my son's track coach graduated in 2001.
If nothing has changed since those dates then it likely is still going on. The other thing Bernie mentioned was that it is not as simple to stop as it sounds. You have to allow alternates. Basketball, football, baseball, soccer all can have substitutes that can be drawn from in the even of injury or other circumstances. Under this scenario how do you stop a coach from subbing a faster runner for a slower qualifier.
Full disclosure I do have to mention that I saw circumstances where a coach did the opposite. A hard working senior who failed to qualify might be substituted onto a relay race that they did not qualify.
You could be fair to the kids that are running distance by splitting their events at districts across a couple days. A kid running a 200 and a 4x200 isn't the same thing as a kid running the 3200 and 1600 in the same day. Let alone running anchor on the 4x800.
I'm guessing a lot of this jockeying is related to getting the distance guys qualified individually and then subbing them into relays.
I'm guessing a lot of this jockeying is related to getting the distance guys qualified individually and then subbing them into relays.
So, I high school freshman decided not to run track because of the qualification process? Sounds like revisionist history. If he really was good and worked hard he would have made State. Did he quit baseball too?
The more I think about it the more I think you give the award to the kid that ran 8 laps. Shit does happen. In the 4a 1600 it looked like a roller derby. Kids outright shoving each other. Saw two kids get shoved out of bounds. Another was shoved to the ground and never did make up the gap after he fell. Somehow that is ok and yet there is a need to give some kid that ran a lap short a prize he didn't earn?
I would like to know what they do with any of their money.
$6 a head at every game when playoffs start in baseball basketball football wrestling swimming. On top of that the sell broadcasting rights for football and basketball.
Didn't quit baseball. Didn't quit track either since he just decided not to return after his freshman year. As well as he had done previously against his peers it was anticipated he would continue his track career and if he would continue to competed at that same level against his peers he would have been state meet caliber. The track coach was not a happy camper about his decision.
Already clearly stated that baseball was his passion and the #1 reason he discontinued track was to use spring baseball to improve his baseball skills. Both he and us (his parents) have many fond memories of his track performances. By his admission that the flawed qualification process was a secondary reason to discontinue track we are glad he did leave the oval. His (and possibly our) future track memories might not have been as favorable.
I still feel athletic events whenever possible need to be decided on the field. If you have a true competitive nature you probably feel the same way.
Terrible screw up. BOB needs to come out and apologize and give a public statement what new controls they will put in place to prevent a reoccurrence.
We second guessers have had a lot longer to think about what should be done than BOB had. In the spirit of competitive nature I still stick with a redo of the race but there is still an alternative. The race was to be 3200m so you make it officially 3200. The top 8 after 7 laps are selected to compete in a race finishing 400. I realize this isn't perfect but doubtful any 3200m guys had an advantage by also running 400s.
Can't do much about the margin of the lead they had after 7 laps but I would take the person who finished first after 7 and give them the lane choice in the 400. 2nd gets the second lane choice and so forth.
People will still bitch but you can't please everyone. At the end of the day the race went 3200 meters and was decided on the track. Anybody who still wasn't happy could be awarded a cupcake with their medal.
Terrible screw up. BOB needs to come out and apologize and give a public statement what new controls they will put in place to prevent a reoccurrence.
We second guessers have had a lot longer to think about what should be done than BOB had. In the spirit of competitive nature I still stick with a redo of the race but there is still an alternative. The race was to be 3200m so you make it officially 3200. The top 8 after 7 laps are selected to compete in a race finishing 400. I realize this isn't perfect but doubtful any 3200m guys had an advantage by also running 400s.
Can't do much about the margin of the lead they had after 7 laps but I would take the person who finished first after 7 and give them the lane choice in the 400. 2nd gets the second lane choice and so forth.
People will still bitch but you can't please everyone. At the end of the day the race went 3200 meters and was decided on the track. Anybody who still wasn't happy could be awarded a cupcake with their medal.
Sounds like a great idea. That way, no one would show up, and the officials can declare whoever they wish as the winner, because no one will know the difference!
I still, after all your rambling, don’t understand what your gripe is with the qualification process? You don’t like the fact that the relays have alternates? Is that the gist of your argument? Do you not like the state qualifying meet itself? The old way for the big schools used to be on times alone throughout the season and there would 6-10 lanes open at the state meet becuase guys would be running on relays. This process seems to work much better.
I think my posts have been very clear about the abuses that have allowed runners who didn't qualify for events in the state meet to take part and run anyway. Not really feeling a need to repeat anything especially someone who links a post of mine that was me basically having to repeat points in a previous post.
I am however not afraid to answer your question regarding alternates because it is a new and valid question. If the abuses are continuing today that were allowed in the past when my kids were in school I would be in favor of BOB mandating that only the qualifying individuals for each event can participate in that event at the state meet. No exceptions so no need to have alternates.
The school where my kids go, a kid pulled a hammy in one relay and they had to use a substitute in another relay. I think that's a good reason to have substitutes. However, I agree that qualifying a relay and then putting in whichever kids you want is not OK. In our school's scenario, it had to be done.
My solution would be to allow a kid's name to be entered in 4 events, participating or as a substitute in the district meet. Names can not change when a team qualifies for state. There still might be subbing in, but it might help limit it. A friend of mine has a kid that qualified for state. I did a quick search for his name on the event list that also included subs, and he was listed 7 times. That should not be allowed.
Personally I'd rather see more kids participate but I could live with BOB adding transparency to the situation and allowing kids to qualify over 2 days and run in the events thy qualify in instead of backdoor by abusing alternates.
What needs to stop is the kid who qualifies, tells his family, friends, ect. only to have to walk it back when people ask how he did or show up to see him run, only to find out his spot he earned was given to someone else. We had that happen to a friends son. Great way to finish your track career.
The nice thing about sports like track is that your time is your time. The alternate thing can only occur in a relay. If one of the legs isn't fast enough to qualify in an individual event they probably don't have a lot of room to complain if someone that spent their time at districts qulafying for individual events and is truly faster takes their spot.
I get what you are saying but that alternate kid knows going into districts that their are the slowest leg and that the other kid is faster than them.
If that kid from bettendorf that just broke the state record in the 400 takes an alternates spot on the 4x400 at state that kid knew it was going to happen.
I get what you are saying but that alternate kid knows going into districts that their are the slowest leg and that the other kid is faster than them.
If that kid from bettendorf that just broke the state record in the 400 takes an alternates spot on the 4x400 at state that kid knew it was going to happen.
Getting 2 days worth of volunteers would be a real challenge. Hard enough to get one.
Btw, guys, the official who made the error is likely a volunteer. Most are. I seriously doubt she woke up that morning and thought it would be a great day to eff up a race. She's likely a career tracktard and feels absolutely horrible. So the badasses who think she should be fired can back off. It was an egregious mistake but I see mistakes happen every year.
You are not going to get two days of districts.
Graduation is that time of year. It’s expensive for the schools. Probably a 1/2 dozen other reasons.
I am sure they will have multiple lap counters in future. My surprise is that after 100 years of doing this they didn’t already.
Just goes to show you in sports you see something damn odd sooner or later.
Graduation is that time of year. It’s expensive for the schools. Probably a 1/2 dozen other reasons.
I am sure they will have multiple lap counters in future. My surprise is that after 100 years of doing this they didn’t already.
Just goes to show you in sports you see something damn odd sooner or later.
I don't think she should be fired at all. The announcer indicated the kids were coming up on the final lap and then she rang the bell. Not sure why he thought it was the final lap and made that announcement but she listened to him.
He was at fault. She was at fault. The kids were at fault
The more I have thought about it mistakes do happen but the race is 8 laps. The kids that kept going should be rewarded for having the awareness to keep going. A kid was stripped of a state title for running the complete race.
He was at fault. She was at fault. The kids were at fault
The more I have thought about it mistakes do happen but the race is 8 laps. The kids that kept going should be rewarded for having the awareness to keep going. A kid was stripped of a state title for running the complete race.
As a comparison I remember a few years ago a MLB ump made a horrible call that cost a pitcher a no hitter. The pitcher didn't get the no hitter back. The ump fealt terrible and even publicly apologized. Still didn't give the pitcher a no hitter
No idea on the Bettendorf qualifying situation but this is exactly the scenario I'm talking about and will use as an example. ONCE AGAIN I AM NOT TAGING THIS TO THE INDIVIDUAL OR SCHOOL..THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE.
Even if a kid is good enough to break a record for example in a 400 what should give him the right to run in the 4x400, Sprint Med, or Distance Med if other team members qualified his school for them at the District meet but he himself did not run in their qualification.
The answer should be he has no right to run in them just because at that time he is the fastest 400 runner in the state. Why does he have no right? He never earned it...somebody else did.
https://www.nwestiowa.com/sports/by...cle_72c1780a-7b0b-11e9-9899-93b44d5359d4.html
It wasn’t supposed to be this way.
The state high school track and field championship meet is designed to determine who is the best in head-to-head competition at the end of the spring season.
This year’s Class 1A boys 3,200-meter run didn’t really decide anything, and it certainly was not the fault of the competitors who gutted out a tough race on a steamy hot day in Des Moines on Thursday afternoon.
“This is one of the most shameful things I’ve ever seen as a coach,” said George-Little Rock coach Curt Fiedler.
The race started out as it normally would, but then the meet official who was responsible for ringing the bell to signify the start of the final lap did so at the completion of lap six. The problem with that is it is supposed to be an eight-lap race.
“I had forgotten to write one of the splits down so I was looking down at my sheet when I heard the bell ring,” said Gehlen Catholic coach Jeremy Schindler. “I was like, ‘Wait a minute, they have two laps left.’ Then I hear the announcer saying it’s the final lap with (Joe) Anderson from George-Little Rock and (Will) Roder from Gehlen Catholic in front. We’re all screaming that it’s not the last lap, but they can’t hear us. I look up and I see the pace is picking up in the race like it naturally would on the last lap.”....
.....Anderson also took to Twitter after the race, but his comments were far from disparaging to anyone.
“Being stripped of my first-ever state title hurts a lot, don’t get me wrong. But my identity does not come from the trophies that I have won or the ones that have been taken away. It comes from who I am in Christ. The main reason I run is to bring glory to His name, not to win state championships. I still love this sport, nothing will ever change that. I ran the absolute hardest I could today. I am proud of that race. At the end of the day it’s not about how we respond when life goes great it’s about how we respond when bad things happen to us. Congrats to Will he ran a great race.”
It wasn’t supposed to be this way.
The state high school track and field championship meet is designed to determine who is the best in head-to-head competition at the end of the spring season.
This year’s Class 1A boys 3,200-meter run didn’t really decide anything, and it certainly was not the fault of the competitors who gutted out a tough race on a steamy hot day in Des Moines on Thursday afternoon.
“This is one of the most shameful things I’ve ever seen as a coach,” said George-Little Rock coach Curt Fiedler.
The race started out as it normally would, but then the meet official who was responsible for ringing the bell to signify the start of the final lap did so at the completion of lap six. The problem with that is it is supposed to be an eight-lap race.
“I had forgotten to write one of the splits down so I was looking down at my sheet when I heard the bell ring,” said Gehlen Catholic coach Jeremy Schindler. “I was like, ‘Wait a minute, they have two laps left.’ Then I hear the announcer saying it’s the final lap with (Joe) Anderson from George-Little Rock and (Will) Roder from Gehlen Catholic in front. We’re all screaming that it’s not the last lap, but they can’t hear us. I look up and I see the pace is picking up in the race like it naturally would on the last lap.”....
.....Anderson also took to Twitter after the race, but his comments were far from disparaging to anyone.
“Being stripped of my first-ever state title hurts a lot, don’t get me wrong. But my identity does not come from the trophies that I have won or the ones that have been taken away. It comes from who I am in Christ. The main reason I run is to bring glory to His name, not to win state championships. I still love this sport, nothing will ever change that. I ran the absolute hardest I could today. I am proud of that race. At the end of the day it’s not about how we respond when life goes great it’s about how we respond when bad things happen to us. Congrats to Will he ran a great race.”
Because he is faster than them. In track it is really quite clear who is better. A team player in a team sport understands that his playing time may change based on the opponent. A bench player gets less time in big games. This is no different. The team player helped them get to state but he knows he isn't the star. Ask him if he can beat the other three in the relay. He knows he can't ...or he would be there instead. The clock doesn't lie
Districts can be fairly easy to qualify if you are in a weak district.
We are going to have to disagree on this. No free rides just because you are the fastest or the best. If you are the best you should be embarrassed to be given something someone beside you earned. You should eat what you killed.
We watch the pro, college, and sometimes high school athletes continue to slide in their off field behavior and act like they have an entitled free ride to do as they like.
Maybe it's long overdue to stop the free rides and curb that mentality.
I can get in board with that as long as you understand that it means less opportunity for the kid you are trying to protect to participate. If all the kids have to run in districts to perform at state then the fastest kids will run period. Are you sure that is what you want?
Face it the slowest kid on a relay isn't the reason a relay team makes it to state. It is the other three that aren't being replaced. What you are proposing takes them out of the competition completely. At least this way they have bragging rights on being a team player and getting the relay qualified.
I am absolutely fine with that. More transparency and make the kids who run at state earn that right. If the better kids try to qualify for too many events and get injured that is on them and their coach.
As far as "bragging rights" how many kids are going to be "bragging" they qualified for state knowing the person will ask them "How did you do at the state meet?" and the kid then has to explain to them they didn't get to run at state but were just used as a pawn. The answer is zero will brag.
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Being used as a pawn is your bias. The kid knows where he stands. The kids almost always know. Lots will brag.
You think the kid that subs in for a football player that will eventually play division one doesn't brag if his team goes to state?
I think you need to adjust how you look at success.
Sounds like the young runner that was directly impacted by the flub is handling this better than many non-impacted adults. Good for him!!
