Iowa State just reloaded..

[Raptorpeeps]

Sure, that’s exactly what the previous post said.

What do you think the post I quoted said?

Here it is again: “Moss was given a starting SG job on a Big Ten team and Iowa needed more.”

Is it just another “I’m glad he’s gone (because some yet to be identified player will be better than he was)” post? Because if it was a post trying to downplay Kansas’ and other school’s interest in Moss (and thus, the magnitude of the loss to Iowa), it is completely irrelevant.

Still smh.

 

[owenhawk]

So it was Fran’s idea to offload Moss?

Ok...

smh

Huh? That’s not at all what I said. I’m saying Iowa needs more then what Moss could give as a starting SG. In fact, I’ve said before that one if Fran’s biggest misses over the past few years is not bringing in a better SG option to supplant Moss.

Now it’s possible Moss went up against Frederick for a year and realized CJ was going to take his spot or at least more of his minutes. And it’s possible Fran thought that as well and couldn’t guarantee Moss the starting job or the type of role he wanted. Nobody knows until the season occurs.

I don’t think Fran ran him off. But I think it’s possible he couldn’t promise or guarantee the role or minutes Moss wanted.

Most likely Moss will be in a role at Kansas that will better fit his skill-set.

 

[David1979]

Huh? That’s not at all what I said. I’m saying Iowa needs more then what Moss could give as a starting SG. In fact, I’ve said before that one if Fran’s biggest misses over the past few years is not bringing in a better SG option to supplant Moss.

Now it’s possible Moss went up against Frederick for a year and realized CJ was going to take his spot or at least more of his minutes. And it’s possible Fran thought that as well and couldn’t guarantee Moss the starting job or the type of role he wanted. Nobody knows until the season occurs.

Most likely Moss will be in a role at Kansas that will better fit his skill-set.

Sha right, and monkey's are going to fly out of my butt.

 

[owenhawk]

Sha right, and monkey's are going to fly out of my butt.

Yeah, I know, Moss was such a dynamic, consistent force. It’s really hard to believe anyone could much his output.

 

[David1979]

Yeah, I know, Moss was such a dynamic, consistent force. It’s really hard to believe anyone could much his output.

So he was inconsistent... so are a lot of players. No one is saying that he is a great player but even good college players can be inconsistent. And it isn't like Iowa has someone that was playing last year that you could see the progression to where you can see that he was going to better than what Moss could give them as a Senior.

Moss could very well start for Kansas. It is so silly to downplay his loss. Yeah, he was inconsistent but he was a good guard not great but he was a good big ten guard and the experience he had can't be replaced. It is ok to admit that Moss was a loss for Iowa, it won't hurt you I promise.

Even more silly are the people trying to downplay Cook's loss as no big deal. I get trying to stay positive but you also have to be realistic. Iowa is most likely going to be down 3 starters from last year and all 3 of them would be Seniors.

 

[unoHawkeye]

Huh? That’s not at all what I said. I’m saying Iowa needs more then what Moss could give as a starting SG. In fact, I’ve said before that one if Fran’s biggest misses over the past few years is not bringing in a better SG option to supplant Moss.

Now it’s possible Moss went up against Frederick for a year and realized CJ was going to take his spot or at least more of his minutes. And it’s possible Fran thought that as well and couldn’t guarantee Moss the starting job or the type of role he wanted. Nobody knows until the season occurs.

I don’t think Fran ran him off. But I think it’s possible he couldn’t promise or guarantee the role or minutes Moss wanted.

Most likely Moss will be in a role at Kansas that will better fit his skill-set.

How is the fact that Iowa needed Moss to fill a role that wasn’t within his skill set Moss’ fault? If Fran had filled the PG position with somebody who could get into the lane on a consistent basis like most teams (including Kansas) have, then Moss would never need to step foot inside the arc.

Yet, as usual, it’s Moss’ fault for not being good enough, and here you are downplaying his abilities and contributions in yet another thread. It’s not the PG position that needs to be better, it’s not Fran’s roster construction that needs to be better, it’s Moss that needed to be better. Sheesh man

 

[owenhawk]

How is the fact that Iowa needed Moss to fill a role that wasn’t within his skill set Moss’ fault? If Fran had filled the PG position with somebody who could get into the lane on a consistent basis like most teams (including Kansas) have, then Moss would never need to step foot inside the arc.

Yet, as usual, it’s Moss’ fault for not being good enough, and here you are downplaying his abilities and contributions in yet another thread. It’s not the PG position that needs to be better, it’s not Fran’s roster construction that needs to be better, it’s Moss that needed to be better. Sheesh man

It’s partly Fran’s fault. I said that. You guys are conveniently overlooking that. My contention is that Moss has a role and a skill-set that could be beneficial to the team. He would be just fine as a back-up SG that can sit on the wing and knock down open shots off the bench and not be expected to do much else (which is likely to be exactly the role he will be given with Kansas). Moss is a pretty one-dimensional player and should probably be looked at like McCausland or what everyone wanted Ogelsby and Ellington to be.

Iowa hasn’t had the type of guards the past years that allow Moss to be that type of player. That’s is definitely on Fran. Also, Fran hasn’t in previous years had an SG come into supplant Moss as a starter and give the team the type of dynamic guard play they need from the starting SG (especially since Iowa hasn’t had other guards that can do that).

But part of the blame definitely falls on Moss because he hasn’t improved in most areas. His handles, his ability to create, his decision-making, and his consistent effort haven’t really improved. What’s confusing is why people want to let Moss off the hook and put all the blame on Fran and staff for Moss’s lack of growth - even though the staff has helped quite a few players over the years improve.

Maybe Moss isn’t capable of doing anymore and he is what he is, which is all the more reason Iowa and Fran needs to look for a better option at starting SG. Aren’t a lot of people on this board not happy with Fran’s recruiting and development and not getting Iowa to that next level? Yet they are hand-wringing and bemoaning losing the weakest link in last year’s starting line-up by far?

Frederick might not be the answer. He might not be able to do the things the team needs and provide more then Moss (or even match his production). But some of you guys act like it’s ridiculous to even assume that’s possible. It’s not like the bar was set real high. All I know is Moss is leaving after being the starting SG for two years and from a team that had a ton of talent and experience returning from a Round of 32 team. Maybe it was an issue between Moss and the coaches or not basketball related but to not think it MIGHT be because Moss was worried about losing his starting gig or having a lesser role is pretty naive by you guys that laugh at that notion.

And maybe I do over downplay his skills and abilities but some of you are really propping him up when we have not only metrics, but quite a bit of actual game proof showing that his contributions were not some insurmountable mountain that the current guard couldn’t match or surpass.

 

[unoHawkeye]

It’s partly Fran’s fault. I said that. You guys are conveniently overlooking that. My contention is that Moss has a role and a skill-set that could be beneficial to the team. He would be just fine as a back-up SG that can sit on the wing and knock down open shots off the bench and not be expected to do much else (which is likely to be exactly the role he will be given with Kansas). Moss is a pretty one-dimensional player and should probably be looked at like McCausland or what everyone wanted Ogelsby and Ellington to be.

Iowa hasn’t had the type of guards the past years that allow Moss to be that type of player. That’s is definitely on Fran. Also, Fran hasn’t in previous years had an SG come into supplant Moss as a starter and give the team the type of dynamic guard play they need from the starting SG (especially since Iowa hasn’t had other guards that can do that).

But part of the blame definitely falls on Moss because he hasn’t improved in most areas. His handles, his ability to create, his decision-making, and his consistent effort haven’t really improved. What’s confusing is why people want to let Moss off the hook and put all the blame on Fran and staff for Moss’s lack of growth - even though the staff has helped quite a few players over the years improve.

Maybe Moss isn’t capable of doing anymore and he is what he is, which is all the more reason Iowa and Fran needs to look for a better option at starting SG. Aren’t a lot of people on this board not happy with Fran’s recruiting and development and not getting Iowa to that next level? Yet they are hand-wringing and bemoaning losing the weakest link in last year’s starting line-up by far?

Frederick might not be the answer. He might not be able to do the things the team needs and provide more then Moss (or even match his production). But some of you guys act like it’s ridiculous to even assume that’s possible. It’s not like the bar was set real high. All I know is Moss is leaving after being the starting SG for two years and from a team that had a ton of talent and experience returning from a Round of 32 team. Maybe it was an issue between Moss and the coaches or not basketball related but to not think it MIGHT be because Moss was worried about losing his starting gig or having a lesser role is pretty naive by you guys that laugh at that notion.

And maybe I do over downplay his skills and abilities but some of you are really propping him up when we have not only metrics, but quite a bit of actual game proof showing that his contributions were not some insurmountable mountain that the current guard couldn’t match or surpass.

Come on man, don’t act like you’re the rational counter to all the people on this site who “prop up” Isaiah Moss. It’s 100% the opposite. Everybody here recognizes the flaws Moss had (because we are past the point of beating that dead horse), but he gets bagged on so hard on this site, that it gets to the point of being ridiculous and somebody needs to say something

The bolded paragraph is just ridiculous. Not everybody improves to become a well rounded and complete basketball player. You act like Moss just sat on his ass all offseason and never tried to improve his game. For some people things just never click, and that’s not “letting him off the hook” (although he doesn’t owe me anything anyways, so not sure what he’d be on the hook for) that’s just a fact. He has dreams of playing pro ball and I’m sure has worked as hard as anybody else to achieve them. Unfortunately, barring massive inprovement this year, it’ll be happening overseas. It would be nice if people could wish him well going forward and appreciate his contributions (just like they’ve done for Ellingson, Dailey, Wagner, etc) instead of dwelling on his shortcomings

 

[David1979]

Moss would have been a top ten returning guard in the Big Ten in terms of PER and top 4 returning SG.

Winston: 24.9
Langford 17.3
Cowan 17.3
Dosunmo 16.9
Simpson 16.8
Green 16.4
Frazier 15.7
Bohannon 14.6
Moss 13.9
Trice 13.9.

Interesting note too that both Bohannon and Moss saw dips in their efficiency from Sophomore to Junior season. Not huge drops but drops nonetheless. I think Iowa could have had the second best starting backcourt with Bohannon healthy and Moss returning behind MSU. I know Ayo and Frazier had higher efficiency rating but Iowa handled them pretty easily when they went head to head.

 

[Iafootballfan]

This has always been my stance. PTL couldn’t tell you who was good but it could tell you who was bad.

You have the ability to convert an injured player's shooting percentage into a future healthy shooting percentage? That's impressive.

 

[owenhawk]

Come on man, don’t act like you’re the rational counter to all the people on this site who “prop up” Isaiah Moss. It’s 100% the opposite. Everybody here recognizes the flaws Moss had (because we are past the point of beating that dead horse), but he gets bagged on so hard on this site, that it gets to the point of being ridiculous and somebody needs to say something

The bolded paragraph is just ridiculous. Not everybody improves to become a well rounded and complete basketball player. You act like Moss just sat on his ass all offseason and never tried to improve his game. For some people things just never click, and that’s not “letting him off the hook” (although he doesn’t owe me anything anyways, so not sure what he’d be on the hook for) that’s just a fact. He has dreams of playing pro ball and I’m sure has worked as hard as anybody else to achieve them. Unfortunately, barring massive inprovement this year, it’ll be happening overseas. It would be nice if people could wish him well going forward and appreciate his contributions (just like they’ve done for Ellingson, Dailey, Wagner, etc) instead of dwelling on his shortcomings

Give me a break. I don’t wish him any ill will. I just don’t think he was that good of a player and I don’t think he will be missed as much as others must (and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe Frederick might be an upgrade).

You are making this out to be more then it is. In fact, Raptors dug up this dead body and resurrected it from a post made over a month ago. My response was to him thinking it’s unreasonable to believe Frederick might be an upgrade and that it’s possible that that Moss might know this from playing against him all year. Just because he’s going to Kansas doesn’t mean that Moss is better then Frederick (and he might be) because his role will likely be a lot different.

In fact, we were in agreement on a number of things about the SG situation even earlier in this thread. You obviously hold him in higher regard then I do. That’s fine. I’m sure he’s a great kid and I hope he does well at Kansas. But I’m not going to act like I enjoyed him as a player (I didn’t) or that I think he was a good starting SG (I don’t) or that I think his production will be hard to replace (I don’t but will see if Iowa has someone currently in their team that can do that).

I was happy to move on from Moss but again another poster brought up something from a month ago.

 

[unoHawkeye]

Give me a break. I don’t wish him any ill will. I just don’t think he was that good of a player and I don’t think he will be missed as much as others must (and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe Frederick might be an upgrade).

You are making this out to be more then it is. In fact, Raptors dug up this dead body and resurrected it from a post made over a month ago. My response was to him thinking it’s unreasonable to believe Frederick might be an upgrade and that it’s possible that that Moss might know this from playing against him all year. Just because he’s going to Kansas doesn’t mean that Moss is better then Frederick (and he might be) because his role will likely be a lot different.

In fact, we were in agreement on a number of things about the SG situation even earlier in this thread. You obviously hold him in higher regard then I do. That’s fine. I’m sure he’s a great kid and I hope he does well at Kansas. But I’m not going to act like I enjoyed him as a player (I didn’t) or that I think he was a good starting SG (I don’t) or that I think his production will be hard to replace (I don’t but will see if Iowa has someone currently in their team that can do that).

I was happy to move on from Moss but again another poster brought up something from a month ago.

Give you a break? I never said you wished him ill will. I said you dwell on his shortcomings, and that is a fact. If you talk about Moss in a given thread, there is a 99.9% chance it’s either to talk about what he wasn’t good at, or to say that somebody else would/will be better. It frequently gets over the top

For example:

You tried arguing (and this is kind of a weird argument to make in the first place unless you have an agenda against him) that most of Moss’ offers weren’t commitable offers, which a) you have no idea about b) doesn’t usually happen with grad transfers from what I’ve seen and c) seems unlikely considering that the actual school he committed to is a blue blood. Raptor called you on it, and then agreed with you that it’s possible (you disagree on the likelihood, but he never said “unreasonable”) that CJ matches Moss’ production. So on that point, you are arguing with nobody, because most agree it’s at least possible that Fredrick comes in and performs as well as Isaiah did, but obviously nobody knows.

I’m sorry for calling you out, because you’re obviously a good poster, but the Moss stuff is just beating the dead horse at this point

 

[David1979]

Give me a break. I don’t wish him any ill will. I just don’t think he was that good of a player and I don’t think he will be missed as much as others must (and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe Frederick might be an upgrade).

You are making this out to be more then it is. In fact, Raptors dug up this dead body and resurrected it from a post made over a month ago. My response was to him thinking it’s unreasonable to believe Frederick might be an upgrade and that it’s possible that that Moss might know this from playing against him all year. Just because he’s going to Kansas doesn’t mean that Moss is better then Frederick (and he might be) because his role will likely be a lot different.

In fact, we were in agreement on a number of things about the SG situation even earlier in this thread. You obviously hold him in higher regard then I do. That’s fine. I’m sure he’s a great kid and I hope he does well at Kansas. But I’m not going to act like I enjoyed him as a player (I didn’t) or that I think he was a good starting SG (I don’t) or that I think his production will be hard to replace (I don’t but will see if Iowa has someone currently in their team that can do that).

I was happy to move on from Moss but again another poster brought up something from a month ago.

Totally ignored information I posted. For CJ to be an upgrade he would have to be a top 8 guard in the league. Good luck with that. He could end up being a better player by the time he is done but expecting him to be an upgrade as a freshman vs senior Moss, that’s unreasonable.

 

[TCOOL]

Nixon last night:

26 pts on 8/24 shooting and 3/13 from 3 point range. Believe it or not, that actually raises his FG % for the CCL season.

Shooting stats through 3 games:

FG %: 32.5 (26/80)

3FG %: 25.5 (13/51)


Is he still wearing the brace?

 

[anon_bb9wlf9kj42py]

I think the brace is off. You could be right that he’s going to be bad. He might be. From what people inside the program are saying everybody likes what Nixon is bringing. What happens on the court next year is TBD.

 

[David1979]

I don't think Nixon is going to be some big scorer for ISU. My guess is he provides toughness, defense and senior leadership. Probably score 10-11 points per game. I would also guess they they will be more balanced scoring wise where you could see 5 guys average double figures.

 

[TCOOL]

I don't think Nixon is going to be some big scorer for ISU. My guess is he provides toughness, defense and senior leadership. Probably score 10-11 points per game. I would also guess they they will be more balanced scoring wise where you could see 5 guys average double figures.

What five?

I think ISU is going to have a tough time scoring next season. Jacobson and Haliburton are double digit guys for sure. I wouldnt put anyone else as a lock for 10 ppg unless Nixon chucks 15 shots per game like he did at CSU.

 

[Cydkar]

What five?

I think ISU is going to have a tough time scoring next season. Jacobson and Haliburton are double digit guys for sure. I wouldnt put anyone else as a lock for 10 ppg unless Nixon chucks 15 shots per game like he did at CSU.

If Bolton doesn't get a waiver ISU will not be an NCAA team, imho. With him certainly no guarantee either. Players have to step up and it's not easy to predict who will.

 

[TCOOL]

If Bolton doesn't get a waiver ISU will not be an NCAA team, imho. With him certainly no guarantee either. Players have to step up and it's not easy to predict who will.

Agree completely.

How is the Big 12 shaping up next year? I know KU, TT and Baylor will probably be top 3 but dont know much else beyond them and ISU.

 

[David1979]

What five?

I think ISU is going to have a tough time scoring next season. Jacobson and Haliburton are double digit guys for sure. I wouldnt put anyone else as a lock for 10 ppg unless Nixon chucks 15 shots per game like he did at CSU.

I don't know what 5 but Prohm is an offensive coach and they have more of a distributor at PG this year and I think you will see the results of that with a balanced scoring attack. To me it seems like they have a better roster than two years ago when there were at the bottom of the league and they still had 4 guys in double figures even with Wigginton and Jackson taking a ton of shots.

 

[TCOOL]

Updated CCL stats for Nixon, who ISU fans think will be a good offensive player this season. He went 16/48 from the field last night and 8/25 from 3 point range.

Season totals:

FG: 68/194 35.1%
3 point FG: 33/115 28.7%

 

[HawkRugged17]

Updated CCL stats for Nixon, who ISU fans think will be a good offensive player this season. He went 16/48 from the field last night and 8/25 from 3 point range.

Season totals:

FG: 68/194 35.1%
3 point FG: 33/115 28.7%

 

[TCOOL]

Season totals:

FG: 68/194 35.1%
3 point FG: 33/115 28.7%

The above are season totals for Nixon in the CCL, didnt realize the playoffs started last weekend and with his team losing they were eliminated.

Not sure why Clone fans are expecting him to be good next season.

 

[cidhawkeye]

The above are season totals for Nixon in the CCL, didnt realize the playoffs started last weekend and with his team losing they were eliminated.

Not sure why Clone fans are expecting him to be good next season.

Did you allow for the notoriously strong defense played in summer leagues. I mean it’s not Big 12 football defense tough but it’s right there.

 

[Jizzer]

Updated CCL stats for Nixon, who ISU fans think will be a good offensive player this season. He went 16/48 from the field last night and 8/25 from 3 point range.

Season totals:

FG: 68/194 35.1%
3 point FG: 33/115 28.7%

He took 48 shots in one game? If so, those summer league stats for any player, are even more useless than I thought.

 

[TCOOL]

He took 48 shots in one game? If so, those summer league stats for any player, are even more useless than I thought.

Pretty common for a guy to tear up summer league and then not do much when the real games start.

However, I have never seen someone play poorly in summer league on the offensive end, like Nixon, and then go on to be a good player during the season.

 

[TCOOL]

LOL

 

[BBHawk]

LOL

View embedded media

Seriously? Claiming victory for a closed scrimmage? Won't do them any good when March comes along...

 

[TCOOL]

Seriously? Claiming victory for a closed scrimmage? Won't do them any good when March comes along...

The LOL was for the Clone fans who think they are a tourney team.

In the 3 or 4 preseason conference rankings that I have looked at, I haven't seen Minny picked better than 10th in any of them.

 

[BBHawk]

The LOL was for the Clone fans who think they are a tourney team.

In the 3 or 4 preseason conference rankings, I haven't seen Minny picked better than 10th in any of them.

Agreed, just surprised at the hubris of the MN AD. What a joke!

 

[L. Wade Childress]

So pretty much the shooting percentages we’ve all been laughing at them about.

 

[BBHawk]

Solomon Young with 6 fouls

 

[CP84]

Oturu with 13 points and 13 boards against them.

Garza is going to feast against their frontcourt.

 

[TCOOL]

So pretty much the shooting percentages we’ve all been laughing at them about.

Yeah, I'm shocked Nixon shot poorly.

 

[HawkAssassin]

Not many problems fixed for Minnesota.

Playmaking (9 assists/20 turnovers)
Shooting (29% on 3 pointers)
Depth (14 bench points)

That box score reads bottom 4 in the B1G.

 

[BBHawk]

Keep in mind this is a scrimmage. Means.nothing.

 

[CP84]

Keep in mind this is a scrimmage. Means.nothing.

Oh ok, thanks

 

[IllQChawk]

Totally ignored information I posted. For CJ to be an upgrade he would have to be a top 8 guard in the league. Good luck with that. He could end up being a better player by the time he is done but expecting him to be an upgrade as a freshman vs senior Moss, that’s unreasonable.

I have a question for you. In your opinion, what would C.J. Fredrick need to accomplish to equal or exceed Moss's production from last year?
You're saying that it's unreasonable to expect a redshirt player to be as good or better than a graduated player. What numbers are you expecting C.J to provide? I'm sure you have numbers in mind to back up your statements.

 

[owenhawk]

Totally ignored information I posted. For CJ to be an upgrade he would have to be a top 8 guard in the league. Good luck with that. He could end up being a better player by the time he is done but expecting him to be an upgrade as a freshman vs senior Moss, that’s

Give you a break? I never said you wished him ill will. I said you dwell on his shortcomings, and that is a fact. If you talk about Moss in a given thread, there is a 99.9% chance it’s either to talk about what he wasn’t good at, or to say that somebody else would/will be better. It frequently gets over the top

For example:

You tried arguing (and this is kind of a weird argument to make in the first place unless you have an agenda against him) that most of Moss’ offers weren’t commitable offers, which a) you have no idea about b) doesn’t usually happen with grad transfers from what I’ve seen and c) seems unlikely considering that the actual school he committed to is a blue blood. Raptor called you on it, and then agreed with you that it’s possible (you disagree on the likelihood, but he never said “unreasonable”) that CJ matches Moss’ production. So on that point, you are arguing with nobody, because most agree it’s at least possible that Fredrick comes in and performs as well as Isaiah did, but obviously nobody knows.

I’m sorry for calling you out, because you’re obviously a good poster, but the Moss stuff is just beating the dead horse at this point

Uno - That’s fair and that’s fine, I do dwell on his shortcomings because I don’t think he was a very good player for Iowa. Especially, not as a starting SG in the Big 10. I agree I tend to go over the top but I really do believe we will see an upgrade at that position.

As far as David saying Frederick (or whoever) would have to be a top 8 Guard in the league to surpass Moss, I think that is asinine but at this point I’m ready to move on from Moss because like I said, I’m counting on that position to be consistently better this year.

 

[unoHawkeye]

I really do hope that you are right! @owenhawk