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Is Alex Tsirtsis a significant factor as to why Brands redshirts basically all True Freshman?

M

MSU158

HB Heisman
Nov 20, 2014
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I know Brands was involved in his being recruited, prior to his leaving, and he also took over as Head Coach, and redshirted him prior to his Senior year.

I really wonder if how Alex was proverbially "thrown to the wolves" has influenced Brands ever since. Obviously, there are a ton of factors that influence every decision. I just wonder if he vowed to never let that happen again.
 
WildTurk said:
Lets change the subject to Tom Minkel. Did his guys really get 0 takedowns against Brands wrestlers?
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Why don't we switch the subject to WildTurk? Is he really obsessed with MSU158? Does he want some framed photos for his nightstand?
 
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Brands has been influenced by many things. I highly doubt the experiance of one would set a standard for all. Tom Brands is not dumb.
 
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I doubt it. There hasn't been a scenario where pulling a redshirt would make sense. DSJ and Sorenson have been the only ones that could have made an impact, but their points at NCAA's wouldn't have mattered.
 
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I honestly became a big fan of Brands with how he handled Tsirtsis when he came back. In many ways, without direct insider insight to either situation, it was the exact opposite of how Sanderson handled Bubba Jenkins. In fact, didn't Brands inevitably lose Blanton's commitment due to the restructuring of scholarships resulting from keeping Alex for another year?

The reason I brought this up is, at Iowa, there has to be more pressure than anywhere to win Team Championships. The loyalty Brands seems to have to each individual to make sure they are as ready as they can be, can seem like it is contrary to any "winning is all that matters" philosophies.

Do you think Alex wrestles as a Tru Freshman if Brands was the HC then?
 
Lets not forget as a coach change is the constant. It is obvious recruiting has changed for Iowa the last year or so. I think maybe TnT had the old mindset development and hard work will win it for you. They are finding out top notch recruits along with development and hard work win championships. The Bull is our best recruit on paper this year. We can't waste 1 year on our best recruit. That is why the Bull is shirting. To optimize his usage.
 
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Stanley75 said:
Lets not forget as a coach change is the constant. It is obvious recruiting has changed for Iowa the last year or so. I think maybe TnT had the old mindset development and hard work will win it for you. They are finding out top notch recruits along with development and hard work win championships. The Bull is our best recruit on paper this year. We can't waste 1 year on our best recruit. That is why the Bull is shirting. To optimize his usage.
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Wouldn't you be optimizing his usage going for a Team Championship this season and then redshirting him next year since you will be graduating 5 Senior starters? I want him to redshirt if that can inevitably get him to his best chance to win by his Senior season. I just don't think the benefits or redshirting this season will show too much next season with who is returning at 165 and with Sorenson and Kemerer back next year, he will still be at 165.

Go for the Gold this year, and then let him RS next year!


Edited to add: Plus, if you redshirt him next year, that frees up 165 for Young next year without forcing him to go up to 174.
 
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MSU158 said:
Wouldn't you be optimizing his usage going for a Team Championship this season and then redshirting him next year since you will be graduating 5 Senior starters? I want him to redshirt if that can inevitably get him to his best chance to win by his Senior season. I just don't think the benefits or redshirting this season will show too much next season with who is returning at 165 and with Sorenson and Kemerer back next year, he will still be at 165.

Go for the Gold this year, and then let him RS next year!


Edited to add: Plus, if you redshirt him next year, that frees up 165 for Young next year without forcing him to go up to 174.
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You should have stopped at the bolded part. I don't understand how some of you can seriously think Alex won't be a lot better at 165 next year compared to this year. This year his chances to AA would be dependent on matchups and draw. Next year the opponents will hope they are on the opposite side of a full sized Bull.
 
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championhawk said:
You should have stopped at the bolded part. I don't understand how some of you can seriously think Alex won't be a lot better at 165 next year compared to this year. This year his chances to AA would be dependent on matchups and draw. Next year the opponents will hope they are on the opposite side of a full sized Bull.
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Because IMar, Massa, Lewis, Rogers, Valencia, Joseph and Walsh will all be back next year. Hoping the added time closes the gap for him by next year while not going full out this year just doesn't make sense from a Team perspective. Unless you honestly believe they will be a true contender next year?
 
MSU158 said:
Wouldn't you be optimizing his usage going for a Team Championship this season and then redshirting him next year since you will be graduating 5 Senior starters? I want him to redshirt if that can inevitably get him to his best chance to win by his Senior season. I just don't think the benefits or redshirting this season will show too much next season with who is returning at 165 and with Sorenson and Kemerer back next year, he will still be at 165.

Go for the Gold this year, and then let him RS next year!


Edited to add: Plus, if you redshirt him next year, that frees up 165 for Young next year without forcing him to go up to 174.
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AM will be better next year at this time than he is now. He would struggle to AA this year and may very would not. That is how you utilize your chips. Gambling is for smokers and drinkers. Managing your personnel is for coaches.
 
MSU158 said:
Because IMar, Massa, Lewis, Rogers, Valencia, Joseph and Walsh will all be back next year. Hoping the added time closes the gap for him by next year while not going full out this year just doesn't make sense from a Team perspective. Unless you honestly believe they will be a true contender next year?
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Why doesn't it make sense? 4 strikes
1. True Freshman
2. Injury forced him to miss several weeks. This is more significant due to #1.
3. It isn't his ideal weight.
4. His weight class is pretty loaded

Nothing about the situation made sense to wrestle him. Of course the extra year is going to let him close the gap on those guys. It is the classic no brainer.
 
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championhawk said:
Why doesn't it make sense? 4 strikes
1. True Freshman
2. Injury forced him to miss several weeks. This is more significant due to #1.
3. It isn't his ideal weight.
4. His weight class is pretty loaded

Nothing about the situation made sense to wrestle him. Of course the extra year is going to let him close the gap on those guys. It is the classic no brainer.
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As has been pointed out my argument is now moot, but for sake of it, I don't disagree with anything you said. But, you are looking at it from strictly what is best from Marinelli's perspective. I was looking at it solely from the Team perspective. I truly believe that this year will be the best chance Iowa has had to win it over the last 4 years and the next couple coming up. I want to see them put their absolute best team on the mat to give them the best chance to win. My only argument for the what is best for Marinelli perspective is that 165 will be no less of a meatgrinder for him next season and the competition has the same amount of time(and most-Massa, Lewis, Rogers and Joseph are on a similarly young learning curve) to improve. By wrestling this year, I think he still has a solid chance to AA in the 5-8 range and be a true factor in bringing home a Team Championship. I agree that his chances to AA would go up next year, but I still see him in that 5-8 range that would be his relative high-end this season.
 
As discussed in other threads, it isn't a certainty that Marinelli will be at 165 next season.
 
YoungGun07 said:
As discussed in other threads, it isn't a certainty that Marinelli will be at 165 next season.
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Obviously, that is the possible insider knowledge that I admitted not being privy to. Still, I am not sold that Kemerer is going to move up to 165 next year and beat the guys I listed. I really do trust in Brands to know what is best. They are obviously far better coaches than I could ever dream to be. I simply gave my opinion on why I thought Marinelli wrestling this year was Iowa's best chance to win a Team Championship this year or next.
 
Alex's true freshman year....I was in the room during an early season workout(before official practices). I saw Alex pin Cliff Moore(season after winning a title) and Troy Steiner literally within 15 minutes of each other. It was one of the crazier things I saw in that room. He had Cliff in a double chicken wing. I was completely dumbfounded while watching a champ, 6 mos removed, inverted with his elbows behind his head.

I was certain he would make a run at the title that year. He had a strong start to the season and then got walloped by Roberson in Ames. He was never the same after that match.
 
MSU158 said:
Because IMar, Massa, Lewis, Rogers, Valencia, Joseph and Walsh will all be back next year. Hoping the added time closes the gap for him by next year while not going full out this year just doesn't make sense from a Team perspective. Unless you honestly believe they will be a true contender next year?
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imho, this is the problem with your thinking. wrestling isnt a team sport, and a coach should do whats best for the most individuals that they can and the team scores will take care of themselves. there are things that brands does that i dont agree with but this certainly is not one of them. the hawks may not win the team title this year or next, and that sucks, but the coaches have changed their philosophy on how to build their team and it is going to take a few year to see if those changes work. they obviously feel confident enough that the fan base will stand behind them through the ncaa title drought. only time will tell how it all works out.
 
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slowdeath said:
Alex's true freshman year....I was in the room during an early season workout(before official practices). I saw Alex pin Cliff Moore(season after winning a title) and Troy Steiner literally within 15 minutes of each other. It was one of the crazier things I saw in that room. He had Cliff in a double chicken wing. I was completely dumbfounded while watching a champ, 6 mos removed, inverted with his elbows behind his head.

I was certain he would make a run at the title that year. He had a strong start to the season and then got walloped by Roberson in Ames. He was never the same after that match.
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I'm not doubting you saw that but Alex's resume wasn't near what many of our past/present recruits. He won a total of zero national titles in HS.
 
slowdeath said:
Alex's true freshman year....I was in the room during an early season workout(before official practices). I saw Alex pin Cliff Moore(season after winning a title) and Troy Steiner literally within 15 minutes of each other. It was one of the crazier things I saw in that room. He had Cliff in a double chicken wing. I was completely dumbfounded while watching a champ, 6 mos removed, inverted with his elbows behind his head.

I was certain he would make a run at the title that year. He had a strong start to the season and then got walloped by Roberson in Ames. He was never the same after that match.
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Good story. Alex was tough.

I'd love to hear an interview with Alex. Does he feel pulling the redshirt hurt him, or was it irrelevant? (Dennis also wrestled as a true freshman and was at the bottom of the Big-10...a humiliating season; but he bounced back.) Did Alex's goals change? If so, when? Did his level of desire change? Was it just bad luck/bad seeds/bad style match-ups? Did other priorities emerge?

I feel like we've all collectively projected onto Alex whatever statements we each personally want to make about the effects of redshirting. But I'd like to hear what Alex has to say. (And then I'd like to hear what Gable has to say.)
 
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TarpHawk said:
Good story. Alex was tough.

I'd love to hear an interview with Alex. Does he feel pulling the redshirt hurt him, or was it irrelevant? (Dennis also wrestled as a true freshman and was at the bottom of the Big-10...a humiliating season; but he bounced back.) Did Alex's goals change? If so, when? Did his level of desire change? Was it just bad luck/bad seeds/bad style match-ups? Did other priorities emerge?

I feel like we've all collectively projected onto Alex whatever statements we each personally want to make about the effects of redshirting. But I'd like to hear what Alex has to say. (And then I'd like to hear what Gable has to say.)
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He was 96-39, not bad for some people, but not good for the hype he had coming in. One low AA finish in 5 years for a guy who most likely had a good chunk of scholarship money headed his way. So he had quite a few "bad style match-ups" losing 39 times.

I don't know what his issue was (it wasn't wrestling as a true freshman), and I sure don't want to denigrate the kid, he's a Hawkeye and I'm sure a good guy and always will be I presume, but his career relative to the expectations was awful and the facts are the facts.

I sure wouldn't want to base my redshirting decisions based on the career of one person, since as you stated it could be a multitude of things that caused his Iowa career results. Those same things that were going to happen to him whether he redshirts as true freshman or not. Either he didn't really have it or he didn't bring it to the mat with him, take your pick.

I agree that Alex's and Gables stories about his situation would be interesting, but IMO not very thought provoking.
 
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