Is the Iowa Wrestling "Dynasty" Over?

[stormnbc]

Let me play devil's advocate for a second here...

And lets look at the facts:

1. Tom and Terry Brands[/B]
Only national title came when they had the 2 recruiting classes combined Haven't shown the ability to build a dynasty (like Tom Ryan) Jaydin Clayton (#13 recruit in country) said this week "I would rather wrestle DII than wrestle for Tom Brands"They make wrestlers fit the "Iowa Style" and their wrestlers are peaking mid-season (see #4) The field is going to be impossible (PSU, fOSU, others) if they don't pick it up
2. Assistant Coaches
Think they're amazing all you want, but they just aren't (see below)It is an ILLUSION to think that Morningstar even comparable to the likes of Kyle Dake, Escobedo, coaches from other schools like thatIf Morningstar didn't prove it as a wrestler, he shouldn't have an opportunity to coachLuke Lofthouse= Gone (see other threads)
3. Recruiting
Oh my goodness, here we goIowa recruits no where NEAR the level that Ohio State, Penn State, even Minny and Okie StateTo be the best, you have to recruit the bestAsk yourself, "Wait, why aren't the guys like Marstellar, Nickal, Nolf, Valencias, etc. choosing Iowa?" Then ask yourself "In the Gable days why were all the best wrestlers from around the country flocking to Iowa"
4. Mentality and Coaching
The "Iowa Style" (pushing forward the whole time, stalling) doesn't work Want proof? How many national champs did Iowa have this year? T & T make their wrestlers fit an Iowa Style and that does not workAlmost every Iowa wrestler CHOKES (Bobby, Jeva, etc.) that is a huge problem and that is in the coaches handsAlong with choking, they peak mid-season
5. Solution
Administration is giving too much support to the program for the product they are getting on the mat, period. So they should give Tom 2 years to win nationals WITHOUT two recruiting classes combined Since Tom won't do that, they should bring in a modern coach. Someone would isn't as old school. Someone that could get his wrestlers ready for the NCAA tournament (Mark Perry comes to mind) Most recruits are driven away from Tom because lets be honest, the man is crazy! He has legitimately lost his mind. So again, bring in someone new
Guys... Again, this was playing devil's advocate and trying to be HONEST

 

[Qued18]

Ohio St dynasty? 1st NC in the schools history this year. When you run 3 or 4 in a row or have over 20 then talk dynasty. Congrats to coach Ryan and his Buckeye's on the schools 1st NC.

 

[Sidenote]

The majority of your facts are opinions.

 

[MVPFAN]

Originally posted by stormnbc:
Let me play devil's advocate for a second here...

And lets look at the facts:

1. Tom and Terry Brands[/B]
Only national title came when they had the 2 recruiting classes combined Haven't shown the ability to build a dynasty (like Tom Ryan) Jaydin Clayton (#13 recruit in country) said this week "I would rather wrestle DII than wrestle for Tom Brands"They make wrestlers fit the "Iowa Style" and their wrestlers are peaking mid-season (see #4) The field is going to be impossible (PSU, fOSU, others) if they don't pick it up
2. Assistant Coaches
Think they're amazing all you want, but they just aren't (see below)It is an ILLUSION to think that Morningstar even comparable to the likes of Kyle Dake, Escobedo, coaches from other schools like thatIf Morningstar didn't prove it as a wrestler, he shouldn't have an opportunity to coachLuke Lofthouse= Gone (see other threads)
3. Recruiting
Oh my goodness, here we goIowa recruits no where NEAR the level that Ohio State, Penn State, even Minny and Okie StateTo be the best, you have to recruit the bestAsk yourself, "Wait, why aren't the guys like Marstellar, Nickal, Nolf, Valencias, etc. choosing Iowa?" Then ask yourself "In the Gable days why were all the best wrestlers from around the country flocking to Iowa"
4. Mentality and Coaching
The "Iowa Style" (pushing forward the whole time, stalling) doesn't work Want proof? How many national champs did Iowa have this year? T & T make their wrestlers fit an Iowa Style and that does not workAlmost every Iowa wrestler CHOKES (Bobby, Jeva, etc.) that is a huge problem and that is in the coaches handsAlong with choking, they peak mid-season
5. Solution
Administration is giving too much support to the program for the product they are getting on the mat, period. So they should give Tom 2 years to win nationals WITHOUT two recruiting classes combined Since Tom won't do that, they should bring in a modern coach. Someone would isn't as old school. Someone that could get his wrestlers ready for the NCAA tournament (Mark Perry comes to mind) Most recruits are driven away from Tom because lets be honest, the man is crazy! He has legitimately lost his mind. So again, bring in someone new
Guys... Again, this was playing devil's advocate and trying to be HONEST

Go away troll d-bag!

 

[ichawks]

This thread could get real ugly.
We did beat PSU, Minny, tOSU and Okie State this season with less talent.
We absolutely need a few more horses for tournament points.
Mark Perry will never coach at Iowa.
Brent Metcalf needs to replace M*. At the very least, hire Borschel away from Northwestern.

 

[northernboarderhawk]

Seriously, you're playing devils advocate to a team that just finished 2nd at the NCAA's with a bunch of (as you make it sound) second rate recruits. Come on I think you need to back away from the edge a little. You do realize that with just a few brakes or a couple of the guys wrestling up to their seeds Iowa could have won this.

Yes it would be nice to see a couple of big name (stud recruits) come to Iowa, and I believe it will start happening. But to say that Iowa needs to basically needs to trash the whole program and start over is a crazy. I also fill that just because you didn't care for the way Morningstar wrestled, that he can't still be a good coach and or recruiter. You do realize that most of the best coaches of all time were not the best athletes of their sport. I think the Hawks will be fine going forward. I also think they could make a couple of minor changes to get things turned around.

 

[255]

Is the Iowa dynasty over? Well, the Gable type dynasty yes. Can Brands win more titles? Absolutely.

Solution:

Fans need to get past the past and recognize what Gable did was so incredible that it may never be repeated.
Expectations of national titles should be in place. Stringing 9 in a row should not.

Asking admin to give less support is not reasonable for a consistent top 5 program. Giving Tom 2 years is also not reasonable for a consistent top 5 coach. Who do you or anyone think is available or willing to come in and do better? With a fan base that expects Gable, who wants that job? You want Perry? He is not going anywhere for a long time. Are we so impressed with Borsh that we give him the head job? DT? Dake? Is Metcalf ready to take the helm? Who is this coach out there that is better than Brands? Who is tested enough to do it?

tOSU Dynasty? 1 title is a dynasty? Seriously?

Do we need improvements to push towards a title? Sure. But an overhaul will cause the program to collapse for a while and it will NEVER be the same again. Strength and recruiting need tweaks sure. Keep in mind Iowa was not the only program to struggle this year and Iowa was not the team that struggled the most. We don't have 2 or 3 marquee wrestlers right now but we do have some young guns that could be.

The 2 class 180 degree argument? This crap was discussed and settled 7 years ago. It is insulting that we go back to this after we stood behind him when it happens.

 

[Hawkirish]

"Guys... Again, this was playing devil's advocate and trying to be HONEST"

You failed being honest. Good troll job - especially loved the dynasty talk after 1 championship. Thanks for the laughs.

Please post more.

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by Qued18:
Ohio St dynasty? 1st NC in the schools history this year. When you run 3 or 4 in a row or have over 20 then talk dynasty. Congrats to coach Ryan and his Buckeye's on the schools 1st NC.

Umm. Yeah. Congrats to the Ohio State Dynasty. Party of One.

So Jaydin Clayton from Missouri who's best friend is J'Den Cox isn't a Hawkeye Fan? Ya don't say! (Cox lived with Clayton's family in Millersburg according to an article I came across).

Furthermore, Clayton is ranked behind 2 of Iowa's current recruits in the same class, at the same weight. Michael Kemerer and Vince Turk. You might want to find a better example, you completely failed on this one.

And yet Tagen Lambotte from Kansas (edited - not Missouri - thanks Trumpy) has wanted to be a Hawkeye his entire life. Same as Ohio's #1 Alex Marinelli and California's #2 Justin Mejiah. Go figure.

This post was edited on 3/22 6:10 PM by sloehawk

 

[Mattski]

Congrats on wasting an hour of your pathetic life putting that together.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Azchief32]

Can't really say anything that the rest have already on the OP...Dynasty???!! (Alan Iverson practice voice)

But for real, what did TOSU finish last year...what did PSU finish this year? Both teams sat guys to load up. I think the more appropriate question is will Brands be happy being a top five guy and hoping his team pulls it off versus dominating.

 

[northernboarderhawk]

Originally posted by Hawkirish:




"Guys... Again, this was playing devil's advocate and trying to be HONEST"

You failed being honest. Good troll job - especially loved the dynasty talk after 1 championship. Thanks for the laughs.

Please post more.

Actually in my post I was being honest. I think you are the one hanging over the edge that needs to be thrown a rope, or maybe it should just be pulled back so you can fall. the program isn't in anyway IMO in the dyer straits that you make it out to be, as the so called (devil's advocate) but thanks for letting me know that I am not being honest.

 

[Sandor45]

Since when did Tom Ryan build a dynasty? He's won one National Championship off the backs of some very talented recruiting classes. Ryan has been very lucky to get the #1 overall recruit the last few years (Bo Jordan, Kyle Snyder, Logan Stieber) If Iowa would have wrestled to their capability, Ohio State loses the title this year to Iowa. We had a lot of guys underperform (Telfrod, Brooks, Evans). Ohio St. had guys peak at the right time (Courts, Tomasello)
I would take Tom and Terry Brands over Tom Ryan and any other coach out there. Those two know wrestling. Terry coached the youngest ever Olympian to a gold medal (Henry Cejudo). Tom was hand picked by Gable to take over the program (enough said). T and T needs guys that will buy all in to the program. Once that happens, Iowa guys will start winning more and more.
No way am I willing to give up the Brands for a modern coach like Mark Perry. Tom and Terry have proven they can win on the college as well as the international level.
This recruiting season will be a strong indication of the progress of the Iowa program. We need hammers, and we need them sooner rather than later. We have a really really strong start already with Marinelli, Kemerer, Wilke, Turk, Mejia. I think these upcoming guys are the types that will completely buy into the program. Now I'm going to say something that's not going to be popular. I don't think this senior class ever truly bought all the way into the Brands/Iowa program. And if they did, it was a struggle. For on example, you had the Evans article that talked about how he almost quit the program after his freshmen year cause he thought he could party as much as he wanted and still wrestle at an elite level. Evans finally turned it around, but it may have been too late. We need kids that want to be there and willing to buy all in. If we get that, Brands and company will do the rest and the product on the mat will be exciting.
As far as assistant coaches go, I'm willing to look for something else. Morningstar gets a lot of hate, but that guy gives the program everything he has and bleeds black and gold. That said, I think he has the spirit of an Iron Mike Kelly, but like Mike, maybe he doesn't have the skill sets or talent to take these middle weights kids to the next level. Iowa has a very deep alumni class of former Hawkeye wrestling greats. Maybe it's time to give one of them a call.
Regardless, I'm still very excited about our future with the Brands and our current and upcoming Hawks. I think we turn the corner sooner than later.

 

[trumpy]

Tagen is from Kansas.

 

[minnhawkeye]

I firmly belive that their will not be again for a long time a Dynasty in wrestling.
Reasons:
1. Kids are starting at a earlier age to wrestle most only sport they do and go to many camps which in the Gable years did not do. Gable could develop them which he did but there where not as many really strong teams in those days. Maybe to a extent can blame some of the parity on all the coaches that the Gable times provided in the sport.
2. The program to at least win titles needs to start recuriting at least 2-3 studs each recuriting class , the years of developing raw talent into champions are over Iowa still can make AA's out of them but we want champshikps. Need the ones to get the bonus points.

So it comes down to recuriting get a few studs to go with the kids you can develop which is looking brighter in the future and Hawks can win their share of titles again. I don't belive right now with what Ohio State, Penn State, Illonis, Cornell and yes the Hawks that any team will win four or five in a row for a long time.

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by trumpy:
Tagen is from Kansas.

My bad, thought he was a Show Me kid. (I'll edit it, thank you).

Point still stands however. The kid mentioned by the OP apparently had J'Den Cox living with his parents. Stunner he's a Missouri kid with a current Tiger and 1 Time National Champ as his best pal and would rather go DII than wrestle for Tom Brands! LOL!

Wonder what's next? John Smith's kid would rather wrestle DII then for Tom Brands! LOL!

I'm guessing Nelson Brands would rather wrestle DII than wrestle for Brian Smith too.................

 

[sabula]

If stormnbc is putting that out there about the Hawks who just finished second, imagine his posts on the Minny, OSU and MO board.

 

[SPOONER]

The top recruits didn't flock to Iowa under Gable. We had some highly rated kids but by and large he found kids who fit into his program and mentality.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

You say "if M* didn't prove it as a wrestler, then he shouldn't have an opportunity to coach."

Ok...prove what? Does that mean you have to AA...or win NCAA once or multiple times or what ??

And you want Brands Bros. gone even though they proved it ....Multiple NCAA titles

Wait...what ???

You're confusing........

 

[final drive]

The way i see it is if Iowa keeps doing what they've been doing they are gonna keep getting back what they've been getting back!

 

[Sandor45]

Spooner,

Exactly! Gable did get the most highly touted guys, he got guys that filled the mold of the Iowa way. That's what we need now. But this day of age with some much young talent coming up, we need to snag both top talent along with the wrestlers that have that Gable/Brands mentality. We need coachable kids that have the talent and drive to succeed here.

 

[therasslinfan]

I can't wait to see storm's post on BWIllustrated. Cael hasn't won a title without two combined recruiting classes yet and he's had some damn good recruiting classes. I'm curious to see the reasons for Cael's lack of coaching success at both ISU and PSU...

 

[SDHawkDoc]

The odds of something like what Gable did with Iowa being repeated are essentially nil.
That was like what Wooden did with UCLA in basketball.
It was something for the ages.

No one should expect anything like that to happen again.

 

[manmythlegend1]

Originally posted by therasslinfan:
I can't wait to see storm's post on BWIllustrated. Cael hasn't won a title without two combined recruiting classes yet and he's had some damn good recruiting classes. I'm curious to see the reasons for Cael's lack of coaching success at both ISU and PSU...

well, since Brown was a part of that class....technically Cael has not had a chance to win one with only his PSU recruiting classes. Next season will be his first attempt.

 

[grapplefann]

Originally posted by stormnbc:
Let me play devil's advocate for a second here...

... And lets look at the facts:






Guys... Again, this was playing devil's advocate and trying to be HONEST

You are not being honest, nor are you "playing" devil's advocate. You're just being a d*ck. Most of this is not fact, but character assassination. For the record, Tom Ryan's first championship is not a dynasty.
A new head coach won't help, and any of the suggested replacements would be worse. Mark Perry didn't win it for Illinois this year, did he? And Penn State, Minny, and Okie State finished down the pack this year.
We get it. You hate the Brands Bros. You probably hate the Hawkeyes. So what?

Solution:
Go back to South Bend. Good luck.

This post was edited on 3/22 8:27 PM by grapplefann

This post was edited on 3/22 8:28 PM by grapplefann

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally posted by SDHawkDoc:
The odds of something like what Gable did with Iowa being repeated are essentially nil.
That was like what Wooden did with UCLA in basketball.
It was something for the ages.

No one should expect anything like that to happen again.

 

[255]

Just as a reminder to those who were around. Gable looked for guys who would work themselves to death and do whatever he ask. He looked for guys who would fight. He did not go after blue chippers. He had some and a lot of guys wanted to wrestle for Iowa based on success but Gable turned away large numbers of blue chip guys for tough workers. Remember, ISU, Minni and a few others passed on the brands. J.Rob was even quoted saying they would not amount to anything. Granted, they were Iowa guys from the start but the other schools did not see them as worth the time. Gable looked for the fit. He knew if they were willing to follow, he would lead them to championship.

Not saying brands should do the same. But if they did go after tougher guys as well as some accomplished guys, we would be on the road. Blue chip guys are a crap shoot. If you look at it, only a third of true blue chippers pan out.

We need better recruits. We all agree with that but if we got some guys willing to go for it, pick up a couple Daniel Dennis type guys our holes would be a lot shallower.

As far a coaching changes go, that's brands call. I have NO inside info but I expect 2 coaches to go and not Morningstar.

We are a great team. We are not gables teams but no one is. Our guys need to learn to shoot. Same guys with the willingness to shoot and we win the title. We have a ton of good guys who have learned that taking risks are not worth it.

If I were brands I would take the approach of I would rather see you attack and get pinned than to win in overtime.

 

[Hawkirish]

Originally posted by northernboarderhawk:

Originally posted by Hawkirish:





"Guys... Again, this was playing devil's advocate and trying to be HONEST"

You failed being honest. Good troll job - especially loved the dynasty talk after 1 championship. Thanks for the laughs.

Please post more.

Actually in my post I was being honest. I think you are the one hanging over the edge that needs to be thrown a rope, or maybe it should just be pulled back so you can fall. the program isn't in anyway IMO in the dyer straits that you make it out to be, as the so called (devil's advocate) but thanks for letting me know that I am not being honest.

Northernboarderhawk - you may want to read my post again as I wasn't quoting or responding to your post. You may want to look at some of my other posts if you think I'm hanging over the edge. Oh, and since you took some shots at me - it's dire not dyer.

 

[pumpdog20]

I'm just glad Hannah Storm (based off the NBC and Notre Dame references) is a wrestling fan. Even if a greatly misinformed one.

 

[klemman]

The only ones using OSU and Dynasty in the same post on this thread are Iowa fans. The OP didn't - and he looks to be a Notre Dame fan anyway.

As an OSU fan, I'm just happy for this year but hope for another. As a long-time Gable fan I still consider Iowa as "The" Collegiate wrestling program. The kind of program where a secon place finish in the Nation is considered a disappointment.

 

[Azchief32]

Originally posted by klemman:
The only ones using OSU and Dynasty in the same post on this thread are Iowa fans. The OP didn't - and he looks to be a Notre Dame fan anyway.

As an OSU fan, I'm just happy for this year but hope for another. As a long-time Gable fan I still consider Iowa as "The" Collegiate wrestling program. The kind of program where a secon place finish in the Nation is considered a disappointment.

Klemman...first of all, congrats on your team's title along with Streibler's four time. Man, what a stud. I do believe you are the first Buck fan to post on here the whole season and you didn't even rub it in...refreshing. Feel free to post more.

 

[steelermc]

Originally posted by 255:
Just as a reminder to those who were around. Gable looked for guys who would work themselves to death and do whatever he ask. He looked for guys who would fight. He did not go after blue chippers. He had some and a lot of guys wanted to wrestle for Iowa based on success but Gable turned away large numbers of blue chip guys for tough workers. Remember, ISU, Minni and a few others passed on the brands. J.Rob was even quoted saying they would not amount to anything. Granted, they were Iowa guys from the start but the other schools did not see them as worth the time. Gable looked for the fit. He knew if they were willing to follow, he would lead them to championship.

Not saying brands should do the same. But if they did go after tougher guys as well as some accomplished guys, we would be on the road. Blue chip guys are a crap shoot. If you look at it, only a third of true blue chippers pan out.

We need better recruits. We all agree with that but if we got some guys willing to go for it, pick up a couple Daniel Dennis type guys our holes would be a lot shallower.

As far a coaching changes go, that's brands call. I have NO inside info but I expect 2 coaches to go and not Morningstar.

We are a great team. We are not gables teams but no one is. Our guys need to learn to shoot. Same guys with the willingness to shoot and we win the title. We have a ton of good guys who have learned that taking risks are not worth it.

If I were brands I would take the approach of I would rather see you attack and get pinned than to win in overtime.

Lincoln Mcllravy- 200-25 Five time state champion. Junior national and Cadet national champion.
Joe Williams-162-1 Four time state champion. First team all-american.
Jeff McGinness-172-0 Four time state champion. First team all-american. 1992 World Junior Champion.
Bill Zadick-114-5-2 Four time state champion. First team all-american. Eight time freestyle champion.

There is alot more names I could add to this list. These guys were blue chippers.

 

[lilhwkgld]

Haven't shown the ability to build a dynasty (like Tom Ryan)If you read the above from the OP, it can be inferred that the OP did in fact use tOSU and Dynasty in the same post since the OP used Tom Ryan as an example of building a dynasty.

Congrats on your title.

 

[255]

Originally posted by steelermc:

Originally posted by 255:
Just as a reminder to those who were around. Gable looked for guys who would work themselves to death and do whatever he ask. He looked for guys who would fight. He did not go after blue chippers. He had some and a lot of guys wanted to wrestle for Iowa based on success but Gable turned away large numbers of blue chip guys for tough workers. Remember, ISU, Minni and a few others passed on the brands. J.Rob was even quoted saying they would not amount to anything. Granted, they were Iowa guys from the start but the other schools did not see them as worth the time. Gable looked for the fit. He knew if they were willing to follow, he would lead them to championship.

Not saying brands should do the same. But if they did go after tougher guys as well as some accomplished guys, we would be on the road. Blue chip guys are a crap shoot. If you look at it, only a third of true blue chippers pan out.

We need better recruits. We all agree with that but if we got some guys willing to go for it, pick up a couple Daniel Dennis type guys our holes would be a lot shallower.

As far a coaching changes go, that's brands call. I have NO inside info but I expect 2 coaches to go and not Morningstar.

We are a great team. We are not gables teams but no one is. Our guys need to learn to shoot. Same guys with the willingness to shoot and we win the title. We have a ton of good guys who have learned that taking risks are not worth it.

If I were brands I would take the approach of I would rather see you attack and get pinned than to win in overtime.

Lincoln Mcllravy- 200-25 Five time state champion. Junior national and Cadet national champion.
Joe Williams-162-1 Four time state champion. First team all-american.
Jeff McGinness-172-0 Four time state champion. First team all-american. 1992 World Junior Champion.
Bill Zadick-114-5-2 Four time state champion. First team all-american. Eight time freestyle champion.

There is alot more names I could add to this list. These guys were blue chippers.

I did say there were some chippers in there and you are 100% right. Gable had a lot of the best no question. I have heard him speak about the guys he turned away or the guys he picked over the chippers because of work ethic, entitlement mentality and so on. I could make a list but you I feel we are aligned on this to an extent.

There is no doubt recruiting is critical. Getting the best guy. I am just saying getting right guy is as important.
This post was edited on 3/23 2:25 PM by 255

 

[harf]

Originally posted by klemman:
The only ones using OSU and Dynasty in the same post on this thread are Iowa fans. The OP didn't - and he looks to be a Notre Dame fan anyway.

As an OSU fan, I'm just happy for this year but hope for another. As a long-time Gable fan I still consider Iowa as "The" Collegiate wrestling program. The kind of program where a secon place finish in the Nation is considered a disappointment.

Second bullet:

"Haven't shown the ability to build a dynasty (like Tom Ryan)"


As far as Iowa being "The" collegiate wrestling program, it is really tough to know the course for Iowa. Iowa is the only team in wrestling that has finished in the top five in every year since 2000, and really even since 2008 but 2010 seemed like a rounder number to figure from.

Average finish since 2010:

Iowa - 2.8
PSU - 3.2
Cornell - 4.2
OSU - 4.7
Minnesota - 4.8
tOSU - 9.2
Edinboro - 13
Mizzou - 13.3

So while Iowa has only one championship in that time, they are the most consistent program year in and year out putting a quality team on the mat. Iowa has not had many "elite" guys as the plan at Iowa is to spread the quality throughout the roster and have 10 AA's rather than go after a few guys at the top end and sacrifice at other weights - due to the restrictions that 9.9 presents.

So how can you say that a coach that has had better results than any other coach in the sport in this decade is not getting the job done? Perhaps someone could do it better, but, even at that the Iowa program has been better than every other program out there.

 

[madmustang4]

you made enough statements to demonstrate that you don't have a good grasp on what's really going on with iowa and D1 wrestling. So, I will assume that you're just trolling and trying to get a rise out of iowa wrestling fans.

 

[steelermc]

Originally posted by 255:

Originally posted by steelermc:

Originally posted by 255:
Just as a reminder to those who were around. Gable looked for guys who would work themselves to death and do whatever he ask. He looked for guys who would fight. He did not go after blue chippers. He had some and a lot of guys wanted to wrestle for Iowa based on success but Gable turned away large numbers of blue chip guys for tough workers. Remember, ISU, Minni and a few others passed on the brands. J.Rob was even quoted saying they would not amount to anything. Granted, they were Iowa guys from the start but the other schools did not see them as worth the time. Gable looked for the fit. He knew if they were willing to follow, he would lead them to championship.

Not saying brands should do the same. But if they did go after tougher guys as well as some accomplished guys, we would be on the road. Blue chip guys are a crap shoot. If you look at it, only a third of true blue chippers pan out.

We need better recruits. We all agree with that but if we got some guys willing to go for it, pick up a couple Daniel Dennis type guys our holes would be a lot shallower.

As far a coaching changes go, that's brands call. I have NO inside info but I expect 2 coaches to go and not Morningstar.

We are a great team. We are not gables teams but no one is. Our guys need to learn to shoot. Same guys with the willingness to shoot and we win the title. We have a ton of good guys who have learned that taking risks are not worth it.

If I were brands I would take the approach of I would rather see you attack and get pinned than to win in overtime.

Lincoln Mcllravy- 200-25 Five time state champion. Junior national and Cadet national champion.
Joe Williams-162-1 Four time state champion. First team all-american.
Jeff McGinness-172-0 Four time state champion. First team all-american. 1992 World Junior Champion.
Bill Zadick-114-5-2 Four time state champion. First team all-american. Eight time freestyle champion.

There is alot more names I could add to this list. These guys were blue chippers.

I did say there were some chippers in there and you are 100% right. Gable had a lot of the best no question. I have heard him speak about the guys he turned away or the guys he picked over the chippers because of work ethic, entitlement mentality and so on. I could make a list but you I feel we are aligned on this to an extent.

There is no doubt recruiting is critical. Getting the best guy. I am just saying getting right guy is as important.
This post was edited on 3/23 2:25 PM by 255

No problem.

 

[WatchaGonnaDoISU]

Most of the "facts" are opinions.

Iowa wrestling is never going to be the way it was under Gable. Thats not just because Gable left but more a product of the times. Parity in college wrestling is coming. Its going to be way to hard to win 21 straight big 10 titles. Cael and Tom Ryan aren't going to win it every year either.

 

[Fansince1960]

Actually, Iowa won 25 Big 10 titles in a row, ending in 1998

 

[graves247]

I think our wrestling dynasty is just fine
WE JUST FINISHED 2ND AT NATINALS AND WON A BIG TEN TITLE!!

How many other teams can stay in the top 5 year in and year out ???

some need to get there expectations in line with the new era of wrestling. High School wrestlers are more talented and more spread out then ever before. Great for the Sport!!