Is the level of injuries unprecedented in Iowa wrestling?

[HoundedHawk]

There are many dings we never know about, but I noticed there were ten observable ones.

125 - Spencer gone for the year, Ayala gone for who knows how long. Ybarra's leg fully wrapped
133 - Desanto's finger is apparently being held on by tape.
141 - Eireman's wrist/hand is clearly hurt.
149 - Murin's upper arm is wrapped.
174 - Kem's labrum is probably torn again. Has to attempt merkles.
184 - Brands is gone for the season due to elbow. Assad's leg is fully wrapped
197 - Warner's leg is fully wrapped

I am not bringing this up as any excuse for Iowa losing, but just seeing there is 10 obvious injuries is a sad observation.

Has anyone seen more observable injuries during a season before? I haven't.

 

[blcoach80]

It is the reason we don't win another title this year if we don't. Is it a training/practice thing or just terrible luck? I don't know but it has really crippled the Hawks this year. As soon as I think we are starting to turn the corner, another guy goes down. Really stinks for everyone. They aren't just banged up either, lots are season enders.

 

[sunshinedynomite]

Is Warner ok after list night?
He was In some pain

 

[Muscles1989]

Iowa does seem to be banged up as a team more than any other team. But can’t say if it’s just bad luck or training issues.

 

[DonHawkeye]

One of the main reasons PSU has not won a title the last couple years is because of injuries. It is part of the game. I would be surprised if they get through nationals unscathed.

 

[93hawkeye]

My theory is the Iowa room has more "live, hard go-s" than other rooms. 5-6 years of that puts your cardio in great shape, but maybe not your knees and shoulders?

 

[HoundedHawk]

Is Warner ok after list night?
He was In some pain

Yeah, I don't think Dean kept it legal. Warner was really screaming as he pulled up between the arrows in this description from the rules book.

 

[poorwrestler]

The best ability is availability

 

[burk11]

Four, maybe five years in the room is tough on the body, and tough on the mind. You guys who have been there know exactly what it's like. Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

 

[1032004]

One of the main reasons PSU has not won a title the last couple years is because of injuries. It is part of the game. I would be surprised if they get through nationals unscathed.

Well 100% of the reason PSU didn't win a title in 2020 was because there was no tournament...

In 2021 they lost a few points from Berge defaulting out and Kerk not being 100%, but wouldn't have been enough to win. They weren't missing any actual starters for NCAA's were they?

 

[HoundedHawk]

Well 100% of the reason PSU didn't win a title in 2020 was because there was no tournament...

In 2021 they lost a few points from Berge defaulting out and Kerk not being 100%, but wouldn't have been enough to win. They weren't missing any actual starters for NCAA's were they?

Also, did the injury of the Bull take away many points from us? Yes, indeed.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Well they lost Cassar and the 197 transfer in 2020 and we’re gonna be lucky to place top 4.

 

[MVPFAN]

One of the main reasons PSU has not won a title the last couple years is because of injuries. It is part of the game. I would be surprised if they get through nationals unscathed.

Not being better than us is the main reason.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Not being better than us is the main reason.

Agree. But just pointing out most teams deal with this.

 

[tiltman]

I was wondering this question myself; these teams nowadays can’t honestly be putting their bodies through more than what Gables teams trained through are they? Did his teams have this many injuries?

 

[Grip220]

Wrestling is an extremely grueling sport, D1 wrestling in the BIG10 is 10 x as hard.
I wonder at what level ( if any) those who ask these questions actually wrestled.
Maybe some of you should ask guys like Spencer or Cory or Ironside or Metcalf or any of the others if they “practice to hard”.
Go visit grand view or any D2 school who are not near the level of these guys and watch a practice and see if their practices are easy on the body.

 

[GoHawks1996]

One of the main reasons PSU has not won a title the last couple years is because of injuries. It is part of the game. I would be surprised if they get through nationals unscathed.

Penn State fully healthy wasn't touching us two years ago, maybe last year but that's a wash because bull got hurt and scored no points, Spencer no ACLs missing bonus points, plus a few other guys banged up that I won't get into.

I wouldn't put PSU's injuries in the top 10 of reasons they didn't win last couple years.

 

[NLhawk62]

Maybe it’s because the 80s and 90s, and well before that, were dirty as hell when it came to PEDs. For all sports and all levels of competition.

Thats pure conjecture on my part, but when is the last time Iowa had a complete stud go 5 years with out a major injury? Metcakf

 

[Iron Doc]

I am an old man and can say I have never seen the Iowa squad this busted up.
Don't know what to make of it.
Maybe the extra year(s) are a factor.
Saw first hand back in the day the toll that 15 years of wrestling took on Junior.
(Of course, with that said, I'm sure he would have used a "Covid" type extra year had there been such a thing.)

 

[slushhead]

Yeah, I don't think Dean kept it legal. Warner was really screaming as he pulled up between the arrows in this description from the rules book.

It’s ok, Warner was able to figure out how to relieve the pressure, and he walked off under his own power once the ordeal was over.

 

[MVPFAN]

Yeah, I don't think Dean kept it legal. Warner was really screaming as he pulled up between the arrows in this description from the rules book.

The move needs to be banned but in the meantime you can bet refs will be thoroughly briefed about making sure he is keeping within the rules.

 

[HoundedHawk]

It’s ok, Warner was able to figure out how to relieve the pressure, and he walked off under his own power once the ordeal was over.

Sad, but true.

 

[SDHN2013]

One of the main reasons PSU has not won a title the last couple years is because of injuries. It is part of the game. I would be surprised if they get through nationals unscathed.

Nice how you respond to a whole team being injured with “yeah PSU had a couple though.”

 

[Hawk_82]

It is the reason we don't win another title this year if we don't. Is it a training/practice thing or just terrible luck? I don't know but it has really crippled the Hawks this year. As soon as I think we are starting to turn the corner, another guy goes down. Really stinks for everyone. They aren't just banged up either, lots are season enders.

One thing i have learned in life is that luck is very rarely just due to luck. Most of the time you make your own luck.

Iowa seems to put a lot more emphasis on being tough. But very few people can overcome injuries with toughness. In the end, the injuries always win. Heck. Even gable had to retire at a young age because his body was shot. I have heard brands talking about the blue collar work ethic. The idea behind blue collar is you will outwork your opponent. this does not lead to a long term career when you dont take care of your body.

 

[24 so far]

Agree. But just pointing out most teams deal with this.

Yeah, they do and some you can't hide. Nolf won NCAA's on 1 leg, Spencer no ACL's, because they're great Wrestler's. Randy Lewis went 2,1,1 and 7th with a dislocated elbow. Matt McDonough DNP with no shoulder after going 1,1,2. Cory Clark won NCAA's with 1 arm because he's tougher than everybody. Derek St. John went thru injuries his Soph. & Senior years I believe and was a shell of himself at the end and took 5th.

Bill Gates suffered a paper cut and still made Billions. Sports are hard.

 

[anon_4lz6x5o7izepf]

One thing i have learned in life is that luck is very rarely just due to luck. Most of the time you make your own luck.

Iowa seems to put a lot more emphasis on being tough. But very few people can overcome injuries with toughness. In the end, the injuries always win. Heck. Even gable had to retire at a young age because his body was shot. I have heard brands talking about the blue collar work ethic. The idea behind blue collar is you will outwork your opponent. this does not lead to a long term career when you dont take care of your body.

Dan Gable was the man, but he retired 25 years ago. Methods have changed for sure. I'm betting your view of blue-collar doesn't match the staff's when it comes to training. Heck most of the current injuries happened during competition. I wish someone kept stats on this across programs so we could put this tired view to bed.

 

[Hawk_82]

Dan Gable was the man, but he retired 25 years ago. Methods have changed for sure. I'm betting your view of blue-collar doesn't match the staff's when it comes to training. Heck most of the current injuries happened during competition. I wish someone kept stats on this across programs so we could put this tired view to bed.

And yet, injuries could come down to something as simple as knowing when to bail out of a bad situation vs continuing to fight through a bad position in an attempt to come out on top.

I dont know the specifics in the iowa wrestling room. But i do know iowa stresses physical toughness, mental toughness, blue collar work ethic, etc. this attitude tends to push someone to fight through pain and push the body past its limit.

I also know that there have been great advances in how to build muscle mass and endurance. I think as a whole, iowa uses the more old school techniques rather than new school theories. There is not necessarily anything wrong with the old school techniques but it is possible that these techniques may put more strain on joints or may lead to inadequate recovery time. iowa also stresses a certain work ethic. It is possible the guys work too hard and are too tired during training and competition to pretect their joints. IDK.

I dont know the specifics of what iowa does vs what psu does. But i can tell you that psu has way more success in the past 15 years than iowa has had so that tells us something about what iowa is doing.

 

[Spoons]

We just have not had the recruits psu has had. Wrestling as a sport has changed quite a bit also. So much more tape out there for guys to study and counter wrestle. If I were to “fault” some of the things the Hawks do is they don’t watch enough tape and scheme against their opponents. Fighting harder does not always work. Kirk beat Parris by our scheming him. Same could be said about Lee over Eirman & Starcrap over Kem last year. Minni keeping matches close by scheming. This is the new wave of wrestling/coaching unless you are a Spencer Lee or Gable Steveson type guy.

 

[Redm18]

I do think there are probably reasons that there are more injuries now compared to 25 years ago. 1. Weight training I believe every single guy has more muscle than 25 years ago. That's more pressure on soft tissue that can't get stronger like muscle can. 2. Youth wrestling guys like Spencer have been training and competing on a world stage for probably 10 to 12 years compared to when gable was wrestling freshman where not even allowed to compete in the ncaas. 3. More medical intervention I think back in the day guys wrestled through stuff that trainers would never allow today. Hopefully this leads to better post wrestling quality of life. I think Gable in his later years moves around only by sheer force of will. 4. PEDs

 

[MVPFAN]

We just have not had the recruits psu has had. Wrestling as a sport has changed quite a bit also. So much more tape out there for guys to study and counter wrestle. If I were to “fault” some of the things the Hawks do is they don’t watch enough tape and scheme against their opponents. Fighting harder does not always work. Kirk beat Parris by our scheming him. Same could be said about Lee over Eirman & Starcrap over Kem last year. Minni keeping matches close by scheming. This is the new wave of wrestling/coaching unless you are a Spencer Lee or Gable Steveson type guy.

Agree, not watching film and scouting your opponent is just stupid. Being informed about what they want to do doesn't prevent you from doing what you like to do and can save getting nailed by a move

 

[Bogiyev]

I do think there are probably reasons that there are more injuries now compared to 25 years ago. 1. Weight training I believe every single guy has more muscle than 25 years ago. That's more pressure on soft tissue that can't get stronger like muscle can. 2. Youth wrestling guys like Spencer have been training and competing on a world stage for probably 10 to 12 years compared to when gable was wrestling freshman where not even allowed to compete in the ncaas. 3. More medical intervention I think back in the day guys wrestled through stuff that trainers would never allow today. Hopefully this leads to better post wrestling quality of life. I think Gable in his later years moves around only by sheer force of will. 4. PEDs

Agree that young wrestlers (pre middle school through high school) are training at a much higher intensity level now than 25 years ago. There are freak outliers, but most bodies, and/or specific joints, have a limited number of years to work in that environment.

 

[HoundedHawk]

I do think there are probably reasons that there are more injuries now compared to 25 years ago. 1. Weight training I believe every single guy has more muscle than 25 years ago. That's more pressure on soft tissue that can't get stronger like muscle can.

Connective tissue does get stronger with stress. The key is to not stress it too much.

 

[just_somebody]

Obviously not specific to Iowa, but I agree a contributing factor to injuries is the number of matches/practices/etc that kids have before they even get to college (or HS, for that matter). And more kids wrestling/training year round. Way more miles on the tires than before.

 

[Redm18]

Connective tissue does get stronger with stress. The key is to not stress it too much.

I should have probably said something like connective tissue does not get stronger at the same rate nor does it heal as the same rate as muscle.

 

[TarpHawk]

Maybe it’s because the 80s and 90s, and well before that, were dirty as hell when it came to PEDs. For all sports and all levels of competition.

Thats pure conjecture on my part, but when is the last time Iowa had a complete stud go 5 years with out a major injury? Metcakf

FYI, I was in the room from 87-91 and never saw or heard of any Iowa wrestler taking PEDS. Tom & Terry? Troy & Terry? Zaputil? No way, no way, no way.

 

[TarpHawk]

I think it's a fluke. TNT have been coaching for 20+ years, they're not learning on the fly, so can't blame it on the coaches. Shortened seasons in '20 and '21, so can't blame it on too many matches. Guys train for Olympics post-college, so can't blame it on too many NCAA seasons. Never seen it this bad, but sometimes sh*t just happens.

 

[24 so far]

I think it's a fluke. TNT have been coaching for 20+ years, they're not learning on the fly, so can't blame it on the coaches. Shortened seasons in '20 and '21, so can't blame it on too many matches. Guys train for Olympics post-college, so can't blame it on too many NCAA seasons. Never seen it this bad, but sometimes sh*t just happens.

I believe this to be the general consensus on most things (shit happens, deal with it as best you can). Apparently some folks nature is that everything is a conspiracy. It's good to question things I suppose, but not every little thing falls in that category. To each his own.

 

[vhsalum]

Penn State fully healthy wasn't touching us two years ago, maybe last year but that's a wash because bull got hurt and scored no points, Spencer no ACLs missing bonus points, plus a few other guys banged up that I won't get into.

Uhhhh... you're not thinking clearly. A fully healthy PSU has a healthy Kyle Conel and Anthony Cassar. It would been close. And we likely would not have been the favorites.

 

[GoHawks1996]

Uhhhh... you're not thinking clearly. A fully healthy PSU has a healthy Kyle Conel and Anthony Cassar. It would been close. And we likely would not have been the favorites.

Uhhhh... I'm thinking very clearly.

100%ish (for having 1 ACL) Lee dominating, Desanto top 3, murin r12-AA, Lugo finalist, Young top 6, Bull top 2, Kem top 2, Abe r12-AA, Warner top 5, Cass top 5.

Meredith nothing, RBY top 3, Lee top 2, Verk nothing, Pipher nothing, Joseph top 2, Hall top 2, Brooks top 4, Conel AA maybe (I think he was a huge lightning in a bottle/fluke), Cassar top 5.

Could they have won? Of course. But we were healthy firing on all cylinders, absolutely were the favorites, and they weren't touching us. In my crystal clearly thought out opinion.

 

[vhsalum]

Uhhhh... I'm thinking very clearly.

100%ish (for having 1 ACL) Lee dominating, Desanto top 3, murin r12-AA, Lugo finalist, Young top 6, Bull top 2, Kem top 2, Abe r12-AA, Warner top 5, Cass top 5.

Meredith nothing, RBY top 3, Lee top 2, Verk nothing, Pipher nothing, Joseph top 2, Hall top 2, Brooks top 4, Conel AA maybe (I think he was a huge lightning in a bottle/fluke), Cassar top 5.

Could they have won? Of course. But we were healthy firing on all cylinders, absolutely were the favorites, and they weren't touching us. In my crystal clearly thought out opinion.

dude... you literally threw away every good point you made by saying "cassar top 5." Do better. And a healthy Conel... I think you're forgetting what a great athlete he is/was. Wrestling in that room, he would have been top 4.
And Abe was not AAing that year. It's still a close tournament. Both teams with likely 4 finalists.

Iowa
Finalists Lee, Lugo, Bull, Kem
AAs - Desanto, Young, Warner, Cass

Penn St
Finalists - Lee, Joseph, Hall, Cassar
AAs - RBY, Brooks (a possible finalist), Conel

That's about as close as it gets.