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Is the USA a great country?

Do you consider teh USA to be a great country?

  • Yes. The greatest on the planet.

    Votes: 44 37.3%
  • Yes. One of many great ones.

    Votes: 39 33.1%
  • Not only not great, but one of the worst on the planet.

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • No. Good, but not Great.

    Votes: 32 27.1%

  • Total voters
    118
Economic/income numbers reflect this -- we are wealthier and more innovative in general and life is better here for most people. Hrot users who believe they would be happier in a place other than America are almost certainly delusional. Europeans who live here also think the world of America -- talk to those who work for european firms (say siemens) with significant presence here. Granted these are not factory/manufacturing workers.

Not implying that there's no room for improvement in the usa but imo impressions of discontent are disconnected from reality. The country of bhutan is the "world's happiest country" but i really don't think any of us (or the europeans for that matter) want to live like that.
I agree for white collar upper middle class and above workers...I was one (have been an executive at both US and EU companies prior to founding my own company). The USA is likely the greatest country on earth for white collar workers. But that is a smallish fraction of the population and we have enormous disparity.

Net net I think America is great for executives, good for blue collar workers and less than good for service type workers/underemployed. It all averages to “good” in my mind.

Also, fwiw I would rather live in the USA than Bhutan as well.
 
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The answer depends on who you are.

If you're an affluent middle-aged white man (like I think a lot of us here are), then there's no where else in the world that you're rather be. You're able to make money, turn it into more money, and keep a bunch of it.

If you're a woman or minority or LGBTQ, you're still likely better off here than most other countries, but not necessarily all.

If you're middle class, then things here aren't as good as they used to be, and they're beginning to slip behind other countries. As our economy was exploding, rich people kept getting richer, but it wasn't translating into higher wages for middle class workers. The rich were pocketing that money. New jobs that are being created are often lower-paying jobs than the ones that people have been losing - so people are working more second jobs and turning to "gigs" to make up the income gap. Meanwhile housing costs are increasing, as are healthcare costs.

Oh, and it's getting harder for your kids to go to college, because the government guaranteeing student loans meant the banks could loan as much as they wanted, which meant that schools could charge whatever they wanted. Meanwhile, the labor glut meant that employers could require college degrees, even for positions where they're not needed - like being an administrative assistant. So, parents make too much to get free grants, but not enough to save, and the students take on big loans that they can never escape.

If you're poor in this country - whether by choice or by circumstance, or if you're mentally ill, this is not really the country you want to be in. The government has mostly left it up to non-profits to deal with all of that, rather than having a strong national strategy for fighting poverty, addressing mental health, substance abuse, etc.

What's crazy is that the poor are often the strongest flag-wavers, even though they have the least reason to be. I guess it's because they've never been anywhere else, and they don't have much reliable information about other countries. All they have is what they've been taught since birth, which is that the US is the greatest place on Earth - God's Country! - and no where else is even close. They know taxes in other countries are high (while they're getting back tax refunds every year because of their low income - still not realizing that the super-rich are probably paying a lower percentage than they are), and they know in other countries you can't always own as many guns as you like, and owning guns = the only freedom that matters. So they, continue to think that they've got it made, even as they're being left farther and farther behind. It's cool though, because they can still go on vacation to Shreveport again this year!
I hate to be cliche, but:

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I agree for white collar upper middle class and above workers...I was one (have been an executive at both US and EU companies prior to founding my own company). The USA is likely the greatest country on earth for white collar workers. But that is a smallish fraction of the population and we have enormous disparity.

Net net I think America is great for executives, good for blue collar workers and less than good for service type workers/underemployed. It all averages to “good” in my mind.

Also, fwiw I would rather live in the USA than Bhutan as well.
no quibbles except for the smallish fraction part. from my perspective a greater fraction would do better here than there.
 
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We're pretty good certainly, but great? I'm not sure any country is great in all aspects. There are some aspects of other countries that are better than its US counterpart, so we clearly aren't the greatest at everything, but what country could live up to that standard anyway?
 
Economic/income numbers reflect this -- we are wealthier and more innovative in general and life is better here for most people. Hrot users who believe they would be happier in a place other than America are almost certainly delusional. Europeans who live here also think the world of America -- talk to those who work for european firms (say siemens) with significant presence here. Granted these are not factory/manufacturing workers.

Not implying that there's no room for improvement in the usa but imo impressions of discontent are disconnected from reality. The country of bhutan is the "world's happiest country" but i really don't think any of us (or the europeans for that matter) want to live like that.

English dude across the street from me is an engineer for Siemens; he travels to Europe and back weekly, and says
he'll never live anywhere but here in the good ol' USA. Says Europe is getting worse every week he goes over there.
 
From talking to colleagues and friends in Europe I really don't think this is true anymore - although I believe it once was. As an example, I think Germany would be significantly better for skilled blue collar workers. Better healthcare coverage, better benefits, better social assistance if the factory closes, more focus on technical skills training so you are better prepared for a high skill job that does not require a college degree. and the list goes on.

Why do you think the USA is better, other than because we have been told this all our lives?
Move
 
We currently have 200,000 dead from covid, the worst in the world, tens of millions without healthcare, the worst in the world, and are led by a dictator wannabee who is openly rigging the election and who has shredded our Consitution resulting in our democracy being in its most fragile state since the Civil War.

We are not even in the top ten of great countries anymore. We barely even qualify as a developed nation anymore.
 
Ooh love it or leave it eh...clever response.

It makes no sense for me to move. I am a reasonably affluent middle aged white male with a graduate degree who owns a technology company. America’s institutions are literally designed for me.

Why is it so offensive for me to wish that the table was a bit more balanced so that others (not as lucky as me) could have as good a life as their European counterparts?
 
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Ooh love it or leave it eh...clever response.

It makes no sense for me to move. I am a reasonably affluent middle aged white male with a graduate degree who owns a technology company. America’s institutions are literally designed for me.

Why is it so offensive for me to wish that the table was a bit more balanced so that others (not as lucky as me) could have as good a life as their European counterparts?
You are such a moral person , why would you stay in such an unfair place. You should be ashamed of your white privilege.
 
We currently have 200,000 dead from covid, the worst in the world, tens of millions without healthcare, the worst in the world, and are led by a dictator wannabee who is openly rigging the election and who has shredded our Consitution resulting in our democracy being in its most fragile state since the Civil War.

We are not even in the top ten of great countries anymore. We barely even qualify as a developed nation anymore.
You can't possibly be that uniformed.
 
You are such a moral person , why would you stay in such an unfair place. You should be ashamed of your white privilege.
You do realize that people can love something, but see a significant opportunity for improvement right? It does not make them less of a person or less of a citizen to want improvement. I love Hawkeye Basketball...I loved the players under Coach Lickliter...that does not mean I thought it was great.

DJT ran on this very premise...although I disagreed with him on the solution I did not disagree that we could be a better nation.

Finally, I do try to live a moral life. I fail continuously, but among other things I am working hard on my @Moral waving skills.
 
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Oh, and it's getting harder for your kids to go to college, because the government guaranteeing student loans meant the banks could loan as much as they wanted, which meant that schools could charge whatever they wanted. Meanwhile, the labor glut meant that employers could require college degrees, even for positions where they're not needed - like being an administrative assistant. So, parents make too much to get free grants, but not enough to save, and the students take on big loans that they can never escape.


I completely agree with your paragraph here about education, well put. It's similar to the problem in health care. In both areas, there is too much money flowing, more than a real free market would allow. The ever increasing money flow drives the costs up, not the other way around. In some ways it's the worst of both worlds, a real free market would be better and lower cost or a European type system would also be better.
 
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