It's 100% clear to me that CHA is not the problem after watching the wrestling meet last night

GhostAppendage

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and if you want more students there?

if i were in the AD dept, i would pull out all stops to get the students to come to games:

* Free pizza, chips and bottled water for every game.

Get a pizza sponsor. Get Frito Lay as a sponsor. Get Coke or Pepsi as a sponsor. Have them = provide the food and drink for free.

* Cheap/free tickets

* MANY buses running non stop before & after the games.

* Look at everything. What else can be improved?

CHA is loud & intimidating when you have people there who make some noise.

Its not an arena problem. Its a fan problem.
I bet if they gave PepsiCo (Frito-Lay) the soft drink contract then they could negotiate that, but doubt they would move away from coke.
 
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MeetTheFerentz

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Good God, can we end this thread already.
Paraphrasing the line from City Slickers - "Even the cows know what the deal is with CHA now."

1) CHA has some design issues that could be improved to keep up with current standards of big-time basketball programs.
2) That doesn't mean the crowd can't be loud and give the Hawkeyes a good home-court advantage.

I know I didn't need to click on this thread, but it's been on the front page for a month and I'm tired of looking at it. The substance has been monotonously repetitive, with the same issues gone over ad nauseam. Time to move on.
 

HawkRugged17

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Good God, can we end this thread already.
Paraphrasing the line from City Slickers - "Even the cows know what the deal is with CHA now."

1) CHA has some design issues that could be improved to keep up with current standards of big-time basketball programs.
2) That doesn't mean the crowd can't be loud and give the Hawkeyes a good home-court advantage.

I know I didn't need to click on this thread, but it's been on the front page for a month and I'm tired of looking at it. The substance has been monotonously repetitive, with the same issues gone over ad nauseam. Time to move on.

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Franisdaman

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As I stated in the orig post:

This is what CHA was like in the early 1990's. Watch this video from the 1993 Michigan at Iowa game (it's the last 2 minutes of the game & Carver was rocking). This particular Iowa team was far from perfect BUT the fans made CHA come alive. Fans were standing & THEY WERE LOUD.

Watch here (IF YOU WANT, SKIP TO THE 3 MINUTE MARK WHERE THEY SCAN THE CROWD):


Unfortunately, the seats behind the baskets are now pushed back but damn, that arena can get loud.
 
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And1Hawk

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Agree with you.

We don't have an arena problem.

We have a fan problem.

There’s roughly 18-19 home games per year. How many home game atmospheres are anywhere close to the few being hailed as proof there’s not an arena problem? Those are not the norm at all.

This is raising ‘apex’ moments as the norm. If you do the math and I give you ‘3’ stellar crowds in 18 home games a year and I can tell you that’s a reach, that’s 17% rounded up. I can guarantee you there’s well more than 17% that’s really poor. I bet the poor is closer to 40-50%. No one is tweeting those nights out like they are the 1-3 apex nights a season.

The proof is in a #12 ranking in both facilities and atmosphere in the B1G rankings.
 

And1Hawk

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We have a fan problem. Not an arena problem.

Do fans actually go to games to knit? Apparently so.

Watch THE YOUNG WOMAN CLOSEST TO THE CAMERA HERE:


She was likely also there during the apex crowds too. I’m sure that’s not her first rodeo. What you don’t see in that shot is how many empty seats are strewn across CHA on many nights and typically an entire end. The seating is 25-30 feet from the actual court on both ends - what kind of setup is that? It’s fine if we want to start hosting tractor pull teams.

A 10-12k arena with 2 decks goes a long way to meeting the realistic demand for b-ball. A typical crowd of 9-10k in a 12k double-decked field house style facility can rock even with your knitter sitting in a similar spot.
 

And1Hawk

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Check out this Feb 2nd tweet from Tim Brando regarding CHA:


Tim Brando‏Verified account@TimBrando
10h10 hours ago

Enjoyed ⁦@bigten⁩ Hoops environment last night at Carver Hawkeye. The weather Gods were good so thanks. Our crew led by ⁦@MikePrincipato⁩ our Producer really captured its meaning ⁦@FS1⁩. Philly next ⁦@GeorgetownHoops⁩ ⁦@VillanovaMbb⁩ 11:30et.Sunday!

DyaBIq2UYAAWGOe.jpg

Good list but what it does not tell you is the breakdown over the past 30-40 years breaking it down in 5 or 10 year increments to show trend.
 

Franisdaman

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A consistent top 25 or better team [would fix CHA]

I think you are right.

Look at Cameron Indoor Stadium. If Duke were not so good year in and year out, it would be half empty and people would be comparing it to "the Barn" at Minnesota.

In addition, a new facility only attracts fans for so long. If the team is not winning, the fans don't show up.

Also, a new facility does not solve the 6 pm ("I can't get off work to make it to the game in time") or 8 pm ("i get home too late to get the kids to bed and for work the next day") start time complaints.
 

Franisdaman

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I love it just the way it is.

I like the effect of walking into what looks like a small building from the outside and then you see the whole arena no matter where you are.

If I had to fix something I would decrease the student section. It is such an eyesore when no one shows up.

Or let students in for free?

I still say they could get a pizza sponsor to give out free pizza and a bottler to give out free water; make it a pregame pizza party; you could do this for the 10 B1G home games at minimum

and what the heck, give the students a coupon each game for a free ice cream cone! Yum!
 

And1Hawk

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I think you are right.

Look at Cameron Indoor Stadium. If Duke were not so good year in and year out, it would be half empty and people would be comparing it to "the Barn" at Minnesota.

In addition, a new facility only attracts fans for so long. If the team is not winning, the fans don't show up.

Also, a new facility does not solve the 6 pm ("I can't get off work to make it to the game in time") or 8 pm ("i get home too late to get the kids to bed and for work the next day") start time complaints.

I love you, really do but you represent a view point that lacks vision. You are not wrong that ‘energized’ fans make a huge difference. They do and that is the point. The vision is how to get it to where is needs to be. Your approach is lobbying by guilt. It’s not working and the trend data over the past 30-40 years shows this.

Winning loads the bandwagon always. Winning or the anticipation of winning and every Tom, Dick & Harry shows up claiming undying loyalty... until losing sets in. Start losing and/or failing to meet expectations repeatedly over a couple of years at Duke and that place will be a ghost town. Losing brings cynicism and uncovers every wart a program has. Winning covers up everything.

The problem with your approach is it centers on blaming fans for not meeting program expectations while not stepping back from a purely objective and analytical standpoint and reviewing the macro environment.

I challenge you to take a long hard look at the B1G rankings on strengths that was put out. You can certainly argue moving a ranking up or down a few spots for anyone but you will unlikely win a mass shift on any one individual ranking. It’s pretty fair and realistic showing how massive a challenge the Iowa job is in the context of our league. There are strength factors that are also totally out of our control regardless of coach, AD, fans, etc.

CHA is not a horrible arena and it’s a pretty nice place to watch a game. The issue is it was built at an ‘apex’ moment in the program and for ‘apex’ crowds and excitement, It was also built with ‘apex’ in mind and against a totally different set of factors that existed in that day. Every year brings change in life and there’s 40 years of change now between when CHA was conceptualized and life today. Compare the technology changes, jobs & money, youth viewpoints & interests and competition for entertainment dollars.

Maybe we can’t do a new venue. That’s fine but that is the one of maybe 2 or 3 max of the strengths factors we can actually control and change. The planning for a new arena needs to start now and the first thing that needs to be established is capacity. The capacity needs to be around what your best anticipation of the season ticket holder base is (and will be) and that’s probably about 7-8k. Then you bump that up by 3-5k max for students and general admissions. The key is don’t build it too big. Yes, there will be apex times you could sell 16–18k but don’t build for those apex moments. Build for always having 2/3 capacity even in the down times. At two thirds, you can still generate an environment and generating an environment always helps the quest for winning and excitement.

Next, location, location & location. Sports is entertainment so you have to choose a location that supports entertainment both inside the arena but also around the arena. Then there’s the ‘convenience’ factor which always translates to parking and ability to get in and out quickly.

Last, building it small, with 2 decks in the old school ‘field house’ model which makes it unique in today’s climate and guarantees two decks, tight sight lines & sound capture & amplification. This is instant atmosphere even on a 9-10k crowd night. No more 1-2 apex games a year —- it’s the majority of nights.

Does building a new arena guarantee anything? No, but I would put money on it that our program will get a bump in three areas in the short-term (first 10 years);
—fan excitement
— player recruitment (new shinny toy + enhanced atmosphere via design)
— future coach attraction — shows invested in winning

Argue against that with another approach to kick start this program over the next 10 years. Put the money in facilities not coaches!
 
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Hawk_82

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Or let students in for free?

I still say they could get a pizza sponsor to give out free pizza and a bottler to give out free water; make it a pregame pizza party; you could do this for the 10 B1G home games at minimum

and what the heck, give the students a coupon each game for a free ice cream cone! Yum!
I don't like letting students in for free. I do like giving all students either a free hotdog or ice cream cone.

One of the biggest problems I see is how far the court is from the stands. I think it would be cool to raise the floor 4-6 ish feet. Then fill the floor surrounding the court with students. Have lights on over the court but dark where the students are standing, I image floor seating similar to boxing or mma. This would be such a unique angle and the students could set the tone for the rest of the arena. I think it could be an awesome environment surrounding the court.

Bonus is that by raising the floor it would prevent obstructed views even when students stand. Big donors might have to move up a row or two, but minimal change. besides raising the court it would be minimal cost.
 

Franisdaman

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There are lots of reasons to not want to go to the games - it's winter and it's dark & cold, they can watch on TV or at a bar with their buddies, the games are no fun - too far away is an easy excuse. You can ride a Cambus to the front door. Thousands of students go to Kinnick because it's fun and cool to go to football games and it's a long haul for a lot of students.

They simply do not want to go - not that there is anything wrong with that. I'm not one of those that feel that somehow students should feel "obligated" to go. If it was a great time, I guarantee you getting to the arena would not be a problem. Right now, and for the last 20 years, Iowa BB has not been that much fun. I went to the games at the Fieldhouse, because they weren't on TV. Today, I would go to a bar with friends.

You hit on a lot of good points. The product really does matter, regardless of the stadium/arena.

All sports teams, college & pro, are struggling to get fans to buy tickets. Heck, if the team is not winning, good luck! If you are the Tampa Rays (who are winning, yet have a lousy stadium), good luck! The Twins (are winning, have an amazing stadium) even struggled until June in selling tickets. The Twins were selling $5 tickets with no fees for the month of May. It's way too easy for fans to enjoy the game from the comforts of their home.

And as has been stated earlier, weekday games are a no win for Iowa. 6 pm start time? Fans complain that it's too early because they can't get off work in time. 8 pm start time? It's too late because they have to get their kids to bed & have to get up the next morning for work.
 
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Walleye70

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There is absolutely no reason not to serve beer at baseball and basketball games. People do not come and get drunk before games like they do for football
 
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amahawk

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Those of you who like to bash CHA, hear me out.

Last night was snowy and not everyone could make it to CHA for the Rutgers at Iowa wrestling meet. The crowd was rather small but CHA was pretty damn loud!

Just like at last night's wrestling meet, it's up to the fans to make CHA loud. It's easy to stand up, get loud and go nuts when Iowa goes on a run. BUT, the team obviously is not going to perform perfectly 100% of the game. And when that happens, it does not mean fans should sit down & be quiet. Fans can still be loud as hell ALWAYS when on defense; fans can still be on their feet with "LETS GO HAWKS" chants during time outs. Fans can still BOO LOUD AS HELL when a ref messes up.

It's the fans who make CHA loud and intimidating for BOTH the opposing team AND the refs.

If the refs make an error & the fans give them hell, guess what? A make up call might happen soon thereafter. Why? Because of the fans making CHA a true home court advantage.

This is what CHA was like in the early 1990's. Watch this video from the 1993 Michigan at Iowa game (it's the last 2 minutes of the game & Carver was rocking). This particular Iowa team was far from perfect BUT the fans made CHA come alive. Fans were standing & THEY WERE LOUD.

Watch here (IF YOU WANT, SKIP TO THE 3 MINUTE MARK WHERE THEY SCAN THE CROWD):



Unfortunately, the seats behind the baskets are now pushed back but damn, that arena can get loud.

@TomKakert @Suterman I am interested in your comments on this, too. Thanks.

They need to lose the blue hairs!
 

LeroyHawk

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Anybody that was there when it opened knows that place can rock, because it used to rock plenty. The arena and the dorms haven't moved an inch, and I don't remember me or my fellow students having a problem getting there. We didn't need free tickets, pizza, ice cream, etc, etc, etc to go to a damn basketball game. Sure they could make improvements, but string together some good seasons with exciting basketball and the crowds will change.
 
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Also, a new facility does not solve the 6 pm ("I can't get off work to make it to the game in time") or 8 pm ("i get home too late to get the kids to bed and for work the next day") start time complaints.

This is really an underrated aspect of the problem. I can't back this up, but I don't ever remember watching 8 pm, Wednesday night games when I was a kid. That seemed to have started relatively recently with the boom of Conference tv stations. And it looks like attendance is down across the board. https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com.../09/Research-and-Ratings/NCAA-attendance.aspx. One of the big complaints you always hear about not attending live games is the comfort of just watching it at home. Its so much easier to just watch an 8pm game at your house. These things are definitely correlated.

I believe Michigan and rutgers were our only sellouts, both weekend games. Iowa fans can do more to get butts in seats (Nebraska stinks but packs their stadium), but some of the blame also goes to the Big Ten Conference for royally boneing us with 8pm Wednesday night starts.
 
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HerkysDad

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Corporate seating is the scourge to season ticket holders they are hit and miss on attendance and often are there just say they were there. Put them on the top levels and let those fans who attend every game sit nearer the court.
 

unoHawkeye

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Anybody that was there when it opened knows that place can rock, because it used to rock plenty. The arena and the dorms haven't moved an inch, and I don't remember me or my fellow students having a problem getting there. We didn't need free tickets, pizza, ice cream, etc, etc, etc to go to a damn basketball game. Sure they could make improvements, but string together some good seasons with exciting basketball and the crowds will change.
Think about the changes in technology between when Carver opened in the early-mid 80’s to now. Hell even when Alford was coach to now. It’s borderline night and day. If I am a college student attending Iowa, (and a casual fan of the basketball team - not somebody who cares enough to post on a message board) I am pregaming at my house/dorm, then heading to a bar (or just staying home) to continue getting ****faced while watching the game on a large flatscreen TV with the buddies.

I’m not trekking to Carver in below zero temps to purchase a ticket, (because I, like most of the students who attend a given non blue blood university, am not die hard enough to purchase a season ticket for the basketball team when I already get molested on tuition and other college expenses) sitting in the corner with a mediocre view where I am barely part of the game, and through all of this, can’t drink anything. On top of that, there are 5 premier basketball home games per year tops. You need to do a little extra if you want to fill seats for Iowa vs Rutgers on a Tuesday night

I’m a broken record in these Carver threads, and in another one posted ALL of my ideas, but it ultimately comes down to free student tickets and booze (as Suterman said earlier in the thread)
 
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blhawk

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CHA is gonna be a sell out for the Penn State wrestling meet. You will see the arena come alive because OF THE FANS.

We don't have an arena problem. We have a fan problem when it comes to mens basketball.
Cool. If Iowa was ranked #1 in bball with Duke coming to town it would be sold out too. It's a program/seating/pricing problem if anything, not a fan problem. Play well consistently and they'll come. Wrestling only averages like 8-9k if I recall correctly....are they just fair weather fans then?
 
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Cool. If Iowa was ranked #1 in bball with Duke coming to town it would be sold out too. It's a program/seating/pricing problem if anything, not a fan problem. Play well consistently and they'll come. Wrestling only averages like 8-9k if I recall correctly....are they just fair weather fans then?

those fair weather fans have lead the nation in home attendance for 13 years in a row now...
 
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IAChief32

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Cool. If Iowa was ranked #1 in bball with Duke coming to town it would be sold out too. It's a program/seating/pricing problem if anything, not a fan problem. Play well consistently and they'll come. Wrestling only averages like 8-9k if I recall correctly....are they just fair weather fans then?

We’ve led the nation for 13 years in attendance. The difference isn’t fair weather or not but the competition that puts butts in the seats. On any given night, Iowa BBall can beat a top team even though they tend to be mediocre. In wrestling, a top team like Iowa just doesn’t lose to bad teams.

Last year was the worse home schedule in years so we only averaged around 8500. Because of the excitement around this year’s team coupled with the best home schedule, it’s going to be much more. For UTC, there were around 10,500. They are the only “cupcake” on our schedule except for maybe Minnesota.
 
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Vallholl

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In 6 home basketball games, Iowa is averaging 10,307 fans.
https://hawkeyesports.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats
In the two home wrestling duals, the attendance has been the following:
UTC- 10,466
Wisconsin- 10,603

I'd suggest that you get tickets and check out a wrestling dual, but it's most likely that it'll be sold out, so that is pointless.

And really, it's not fair to compare basketball attendance to wrestling attendance b/c 5,000 wrestling fans make more noise than 10,000 basketball fans.

But seriously, come out to a dual and then post here about how the arena is "too comfortable" and "not built for noise".