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Jeb Bush op-ed: My plan to replace Obamacare

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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Lots of untruths about Obamacare. Kind of weak on specifics beyond tax credits that would be of little use to those most in need:

As gridlock persists in our nation's capital and good legislation continues to die in the Senate, it is clear the next president will play a key role in determining the future of Obamacare. That means candidates' positions on the issue will be among the most important when ballots are cast next year.

Obamacare's "three-legged stool" — the subsidies, guaranteed-issue rules and individual mandate — is already collapsing under its own weight. The failing Obamacare co-ops mean that more than 500,000 Americans have lost their health plans, while individuals face a new wave of premium increases — about $600 a year on average for a silver-level federal exchange plan. The individual mandate is overreaching and ineffective; Obamacare's attempt to stop "pricing out people with preexisting conditions," as a Nov. 2 Post editorial put it, has priced out people who don't have preexisting conditions; and while the subsidies primarily benefit those below 200 percent of the poverty level, the majority of Americans are worse off.

The point is that individuals, instead of insurers, would control more of the health care dollar, via tools such as HSAs. My approach would also make these HSAs work better for those with chronic conditions by offering plans with lower deductibles for certain services related to a given condition and would establish transparent information on the value of services so consumers have the information they need to make informed choices and demand value. If Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders wins the White House, the only question will be how much she or he can expand Obamacare, growing our debt and raising taxes in the process.
I know there is a better path. That is why I recently proposed the most substantive conservative plan to repeal and replace Obamacare presented to date. My Obamacare alternative addresses the root causes of high health care costs, offers patients more options and strengthens the safety net for the most vulnerable Americans.

First, my plan would lower costs. Health care is expensive primarily because Washington has long distorted the meaning of "insurance." Health insurers pay the majority of bills and control how most health-care services are delivered.
Under my plan, instead of an insurer directly paying all the bills, consumers would be empowered to make choices that are right for them. For instance, an asthma patient could save money by choosing a treatment costing $8,000 instead of one from a different hospital in the same city costing $34,000.

Additionally, medical entrepreneurs would be given better opportunities to develop new approaches to delivering care. Instead of getting paid every time a diabetic patient came into the office, what if a specialist could manage all of that patient's diabetic care, including the use of remote monitoring technology, for a one-time payment? Such an approach might save money and lead to better outcomes.
But this does not mean patients would be on their own to cover costs; rather, they could choose from a range of innovative coverage options. Patients may spend far less on premiums and be able to save more for out-of-pocket costs with a health savings account (HSA), and they may select a high-deductible plan that offers them a defined amount when they need certain services, so that they can select a specialized physician to provide them. And states could supplement the value of plans for the poor by fully funding HSAs.

Second, my plan promotes innovation. It can take 12 to 15 years and more than $2 billion to develop a new cure for a disease. In a $3.1 trillion system, efficiency and effectiveness are desperately needed; yet under the current system, health care start-ups face costly and complex government overregulation. My plan would overhaul Washington's entire approach to innovation, including modernizing the Food and Drug Administration, investing in the National Institutes of Health and promoting big data solutions in health care. Advances can be led by the creativity of America's scientists, care providers and innovators.

Finally, my plan would strengthen the safety net. The primary goal of the tax credits for the purchase of insurance included in my plan is to finally achieve tax fairness between the employer and individual health insurance markets. A middle class family that needs to purchase health coverage should get a tax break similar to what another middle class family receives through an employer. The tax credit would benefit low-income Americans, and my plan would enable the states to target additional resources to the needy by supplementing the value of the credit.

Furthermore, these changes would complement reforms to Medicaid that replace unnecessary rules with an approach that insists on results. The most exciting improvements we have seen to the safety net have come from the states breaking free from Washington's rules, and we need to build on those successes. With the right tools and accountability in place, states can achieve far better outcomes for the poor.

Unfortunately, Obamacare was built on top of a 1940s- and 1960s-era system. A 21st-century health care system requires innovation and an overhaul of this antiquated structure. Only then will all Americans realize the lower costs, better options and greater possibilities of the future.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ush-obamacare-replacement-20151110-story.html
 
Healthcare is expensive because it's inherently expensive and we use a free market system where the government has no negotiating power to keep costs low.

Also the idea that a patient has the time and ability to "shop around" for treatments is ridiculous.

First of all the front line people at a hospital or a doctor's office have no idea what their treatments cost because they are just trained to deliver them and leave the rest to accounting. Trust me I know this because I've asked back when I didn't have insurance.

Second there is no way you can know ahead of time what treatments the doctor will want to give you and different doctors may choose to get different treatments.

Third it costs upwards of $100 just to go in and see that doctor for them to decide what treatment they want to give you. Again this is just at a doctor's office, at a hospital the costs of just seeing a doctor are much much higher. One can not afford to pay $100 just to find out what the treatment that doctor wants to give you is and then go see another doctor and get his price and this is even if they knew the costs of these things up front which they do not.

Fourth Often people especially those in the hospital need multiple treatments. It could be extremely unhealthy and quite ridiculous to try and get one treatment at one hospital and another treatment at a different hospital for related issues. Quite frankly in many instances it would be impossible. Consider if one hospital has better rates for a C-section birth but another has a better rate for tubal litigation that a woman wants while giving birth to her final child. Should she get the C-section at one hospital, load herself up from that hospital and go to a different hospital so they can open her back up again for the tubal litigation? Or should she just ride over to that hospital with her belly still open??

Jeb's plan is moronic. It shows a clear lack of understanding of the healthcare system and quite frankly how healthcare works.

The free market isn't going to fix healthcare. It's an inherently expensive thing to do. However all the countries that spend the least amount of healthcare per capita but also produce good results have single payer plans.
 
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Much of what you're complaining about above could be solved with the sort of innovation that Bush is proposing.

For example, "flat fee" pricing with your doctor would allow you to see the doctor as often as needed without the bother of co-pays and insurance claims. It's easier to budget, and when you need to be sent out for tests, the cost for the visit is already paid for.

Secondly, if all the labs in your area had upfront pricing available on the internet, you could shop around on your smart phone while waiting for the doctor to write the lab order.

Why don't they have upfront pricing? Because there's a different pricing schedule for every insurance provider.

Encouraging the consumer to be a smart consumer is important if we want to solve the cost puzzle. Yes, you can't do that in an emergency, but most healthcare expenses are for treatment of chronic, long-term conditions; not emergencies. That's where people should be able to shop around and find the best price, which controls costs more effectively than any bureaucrat can.

Co-pays are horrible. If the consumer pays the same price no matter where he chooses to go, then we're trusting insurance companies to control prices. Since hospitals can threaten to not cover an insurance company's patients, and members will be quite upset if they can't go to the local hospital, the insurance companies have little leverage. Consumers wouldn't have this dilemma.
 
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Let's get serious. No Republican has a plan to replace Obamacare. It took nearly 15 years to craft the ACA. Democrats actually started working on it in the mid 90's after they got their big healthcare push shot down. So the idea that one person, let alone an entire party, can come up with an alternative in just a few months or even a year or two is not realistic.

As for HSAs. They work quite quite well for some people but in no way will be able to be a national plan. They are simply not practical to be used as a general solution to healthcare.
 
Much of what you're complaining about above could be solved with the sort of innovation that Bush is proposing.

For example, "flat fee" pricing with your doctor would allow you to see the doctor as often as needed without the bother of co-pays and insurance claims. It's easier to budget, and when you need to be sent out for tests, the cost for the visit is already paid for.

Doesn't this create an overuse problem that all the conservatives claim is what is so scary about government healthcare. I mean if I'm paying a flat fee every year to be able to see my doctor, I would want to see him often, it's the same price.

For the record I don't think overuse is too big of a problem because my insurance for this year that I got on the evil government marketplace of doom covers all primary care doctor's visits free of charge.

Also this doesn't help me to shop around. Most of the doctors I know get at the very least their more simple labs done through their own clinic.

Secondly, if all the labs in your area had upfront pricing available on the internet, you could shop around on your smart phone while waiting for the doctor to write the lab order.

Why don't they have upfront pricing? Because there's a different pricing schedule for every insurance provider.

Very true, but most labs for more simple things operate through the clinic the doctor works at. They may bill you differently but they are rarely entirely different entities.

On top of that not all things we are discussing are labs. Minor surgery on an ingrown toenail, which can be done in a clinic. You can't shop around for that if you are just paying your doctor a flat fee without going and paying another doctor a fee. Unless you are suggesting that the flat fee cover this in which case it's a silly idea as no clinic in their right mind would ever take such a deal because it's impossible to know what treatments or minor surgeries will be necessary over the course of a year.

No clinic is going to go for this unless you make them by law and then that will push many of them out of business. (And by the way using the law to enforce a pricing structure is the opposite of a free market solution.)

Encouraging the consumer to be a smart consumer is important if we want to solve the cost puzzle. Yes, you can't do that in an emergency, but most healthcare expenses are for treatment of chronic, long-term conditions; not emergencies. That's where people should be able to shop around and find the best price, which controls costs more effectively than any bureaucrat can.

Hardly the most expensive stuff is in the hospital where you can rarely shop around for price. They often require multiple tests, multiple treatments etc etc on the same visit. Even in non emergency hospital situations you can't possibly get the best price on every treatment because there are so many and you never know what treatment might need to come up.

Co-pays are horrible. If the consumer pays the same price no matter where he chooses to go, then we're trusting insurance companies to control prices. Since hospitals can threaten to not cover an insurance company's patients, and members will be quite upset if they can't go to the local hospital, the insurance companies have little leverage. Consumers wouldn't have this dilemma.

Not entirely the insurance company just make sure it covers another local hospital and you go there. It's somewhat annoying but all of our children where born in a hospital 40 min away from where we live instead of the one 20 min away from where we live because that hospital isn't covered. Every time the hospital turns down an insurance company it turns down a ton of potential patients.

This is a good argument for single payer. If everyone's on the same plan and the hospital won't negotiate then NO ONE uses that hospital.
 
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If people started contributing to HSAs when they got their first job and are young and healthy, most would have a big pot of money by the time they got old and needed the money.
 
Another death sentence proposal for the uninsurable. Conservatism marches on.

Lots of untruths about Obamacare. Kind of weak on specifics beyond tax credits that would be of little use to those most in need:

As gridlock persists in our nation's capital and good legislation continues to die in the Senate, it is clear the next president will play a key role in determining the future of Obamacare. That means candidates' positions on the issue will be among the most important when ballots are cast next year.

Obamacare's "three-legged stool" — the subsidies, guaranteed-issue rules and individual mandate — is already collapsing under its own weight. The failing Obamacare co-ops mean that more than 500,000 Americans have lost their health plans, while individuals face a new wave of premium increases — about $600 a year on average for a silver-level federal exchange plan. The individual mandate is overreaching and ineffective; Obamacare's attempt to stop "pricing out people with preexisting conditions," as a Nov. 2 Post editorial put it, has priced out people who don't have preexisting conditions; and while the subsidies primarily benefit those below 200 percent of the poverty level, the majority of Americans are worse off.

The point is that individuals, instead of insurers, would control more of the health care dollar, via tools such as HSAs. My approach would also make these HSAs work better for those with chronic conditions by offering plans with lower deductibles for certain services related to a given condition and would establish transparent information on the value of services so consumers have the information they need to make informed choices and demand value. If Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders wins the White House, the only question will be how much she or he can expand Obamacare, growing our debt and raising taxes in the process.
I know there is a better path. That is why I recently proposed the most substantive conservative plan to repeal and replace Obamacare presented to date. My Obamacare alternative addresses the root causes of high health care costs, offers patients more options and strengthens the safety net for the most vulnerable Americans.

First, my plan would lower costs. Health care is expensive primarily because Washington has long distorted the meaning of "insurance." Health insurers pay the majority of bills and control how most health-care services are delivered.
Under my plan, instead of an insurer directly paying all the bills, consumers would be empowered to make choices that are right for them. For instance, an asthma patient could save money by choosing a treatment costing $8,000 instead of one from a different hospital in the same city costing $34,000.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ush-obamacare-replacement-20151109-story.html
Additionally, medical entrepreneurs would be given better opportunities to develop new approaches to delivering care. Instead of getting paid every time a diabetic patient came into the office, what if a specialist could manage all of that patient's diabetic care, including the use of remote monitoring technology, for a one-time payment? Such an approach might save money and lead to better outcomes.
But this does not mean patients would be on their own to cover costs; rather, they could choose from a range of innovative coverage options. Patients may spend far less on premiums and be able to save more for out-of-pocket costs with a health savings account (HSA), and they may select a high-deductible plan that offers them a defined amount when they need certain services, so that they can select a specialized physician to provide them. And states could supplement the value of plans for the poor by fully funding HSAs.

Second, my plan promotes innovation. It can take 12 to 15 years and more than $2 billion to develop a new cure for a disease. In a $3.1 trillion system, efficiency and effectiveness are desperately needed; yet under the current system, health care start-ups face costly and complex government overregulation. My plan would overhaul Washington's entire approach to innovation, including modernizing the Food and Drug Administration, investing in the National Institutes of Health and promoting big data solutions in health care. Advances can be led by the creativity of America's scientists, care providers and innovators.

Finally, my plan would strengthen the safety net. The primary goal of the tax credits for the purchase of insurance included in my plan is to finally achieve tax fairness between the employer and individual health insurance markets. A middle class family that needs to purchase health coverage should get a tax break similar to what another middle class family receives through an employer. The tax credit would benefit low-income Americans, and my plan would enable the states to target additional resources to the needy by supplementing the value of the credit.

Furthermore, these changes would complement reforms to Medicaid that replace unnecessary rules with an approach that insists on results. The most exciting improvements we have seen to the safety net have come from the states breaking free from Washington's rules, and we need to build on those successes. With the right tools and accountability in place, states can achieve far better outcomes for the poor.

Unfortunately, Obamacare was built on top of a 1940s- and 1960s-era system. A 21st-century health care system requires innovation and an overhaul of this antiquated structure. Only then will all Americans realize the lower costs, better options and greater possibilities of the future.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ush-obamacare-replacement-20151110-story.html
 
Doesn't this create an overuse problem that all the conservatives claim is what is so scary about government healthcare. I mean if I'm paying a flat fee every year to be able to see my doctor, I would want to see him often, it's the same price.

Also this doesn't help me to shop around. Most of the doctors I know get at the very least their more simple labs done through their own clinic.



Very true, but most labs for more simple things operate through the clinic the doctor works at. They may bill you differently but they are rarely entirely different entities.

On top of that not all things we are discussing are labs. Minor surgery on an ingrown toenail, which can be done in a clinic. You can't shop around for that if you are just paying your doctor a flat fee without going and paying another doctor a fee. Unless you are suggesting that the flat fee cover this in which case it's a silly idea as no clinic in their right mind would ever take such a deal because it's impossible to know what treatments or minor surgeries will be necessary over the course of a year.

No clinic is going to go for this unless you make them by law and then that will push many of them out of business. (And by the way using the law to enforce a pricing structure is the opposite of a free market solution.)



Hardly the most expensive stuff is in the hospital where you can rarely shop around for price. They often require multiple tests, multiple treatments etc etc on the same visit. Even in non emergency hospital situations you can't possibly get the best price on every treatment.



Not entirely the insurance company just make sure it covers another local hospital and you go there. It's somewhat annoying but all of our children where born in a hospital 40 min away from where we live instead of the one 20 min away from where we live because that hospital isn't covered.

This is a good argument for single payer. If everyone's on the same plan and the hospital won't negotiate then NO ONE uses that hospital.

Yeah, and then YOU don't have the ability to shop around, either. The government will tell you where you can go. Additionally, without a competitive motivation, the risk of bureaucratic funk and DMV-level customer service increase exponentially.
 
Doesn't this create an overuse problem that all the conservatives claim is what is so scary about government healthcare. I mean if I'm paying a flat fee every year to be able to see my doctor, I would want to see him often, it's the same price.

Also this doesn't help me to shop around. Most of the doctors I know get at the very least their more simple labs done through their own clinic.



Very true, but most labs for more simple things operate through the clinic the doctor works at. They may bill you differently but they are rarely entirely different entities.

On top of that not all things we are discussing are labs. Minor surgery on an ingrown toenail, which can be done in a clinic. You can't shop around for that if you are just paying your doctor a flat fee without going and paying another doctor a fee. Unless you are suggesting that the flat fee cover this in which case it's a silly idea as no clinic in their right mind would ever take such a deal because it's impossible to know what treatments or minor surgeries will be necessary over the course of a year.

No clinic is going to go for this unless you make them by law and then that will push many of them out of business. (And by the way using the law to enforce a pricing structure is the opposite of a free market solution.)



Hardly the most expensive stuff is in the hospital where you can rarely shop around for price. They often require multiple tests, multiple treatments etc etc on the same visit. Even in non emergency hospital situations you can't possibly get the best price on every treatment.



Not entirely the insurance company just make sure it covers another local hospital and you go there. It's somewhat annoying but all of our children where born in a hospital 40 min away from where we live instead of the one 20 min away from where we live because that hospital isn't covered.

This is a good argument for single payer. If everyone's on the same plan and the hospital won't negotiate then NO ONE uses that hospital.
I think you hit the nail on the head that prices are way to complex to be negotiable. This isn't shopping for a microwave. There are so many different components that factor into the cost of healthcare that it's not realistic to expect the consumer to get online and sort it all out.
 
Let's get serious. No Republican has a plan to replace Obamacare. It took nearly 15 years to craft the ACA. Democrats actually started working on it in the mid 90's after they got their big healthcare push shot down. So the idea that one person, let alone an entire party, can come up with an alternative in just a few months or even a year or two is not realistic.

As for HSAs. They work quite quite well for some people but in no way will be able to be a national plan. They are simply not practical to be used as a general solution to healthcare.

HSAs coupled w a high deduct ins plan are great for those w higher incomes $6k/yr tax free savings account (I'm up to $30k in mine) but they are not a good option for those with more modest incomes.
 
Yeah, and then YOU don't have the ability to shop around, either. The government will tell you where you can go. Additionally, without a competitive motivation, the risk of bureaucratic funk and DMV-level customer service increase exponentially.
Yes, this is one problem behind single payer. Lack of choice. But on the flip side, prices typically go way down, consumers have a better idea of what procedures will cost, and far more people will get covered.
 
If people started contributing to HSAs when they got their first job and are young and healthy, most would have a big pot of money by the time they got old and needed the money.

Most people that I know that are young don't make a ton of money. You seem to assume that people have the kind of money to just dump into this stuff.

And honestly even if they did it would not work. My mom had some heart problems and the hospital bill was $300,000. Fortunately covered by the evil health insurance companies. There is simply no way that one could save up $300,000 considering that healthcare is on ongoing thing and an inherently expensive thing.
 
HSAs coupled w a high deduct ins plan are great for those w higher incomes $6k/yr tax free savings account (I'm up to $30k in mine) but they are not a good option for those with more modest incomes.
And those with modest incomes are the ones least likely to have HSAs work for them. So what have we gained? People who can already afford healthcare aren't the trouble spot. It's those who can't easily get care that is the problem.
 
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I think you hit the nail on the head that prices are way to complex to be negotiable. This isn't shopping for a microwave. There are so many different components that factor into the cost of healthcare that it's not realistic to expect the consumer to get online and sort it all out.


In other words, you think consumers are too stupid to understand all this complicated stuff and therefore require the government to do the shopping for them.

Do I have that about right?

Consumers can somehow navigate multiple stores with hundreds of thousands of items and find the best deal on the things they want and need, but are incapable of doing that with healthcare purchases?

Government has no problem forcing us to comply with ever more-complex and voluminous tax laws, but asking them to shop around for the best price on Viagra is a bridge too far?

Frankly, I'm insulted by this line of reasoning.

Then again, maybe the voters really ARE stupid.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/obamacare-voters-stupid-explainer/
 
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Healthcare is expensive because it's inherently expensive and we use a free market system where the government has no negotiating power to keep costs low.

.
WTF? There's a contradiction right there, government involvement means no free market. Cost cannot be controlled when money is constantly thrown into the system, that's basic economics. Supply and quality will decline when try to control costs, that's basic economics. Health insurance has never been free market, it has almost always been regulated at the state level.
 
And those with modest incomes are the ones least likely to have HSAs work for them. So what have we gained? People who can already afford healthcare aren't the trouble spot. It's those who can't easily get care that is the problem.

That's why Bush wants to give them a tax credit to supplement their savings.
 
And those with modest incomes are the ones least likely to have HSAs work for them. So what have we gained? People who can already afford healthcare aren't the trouble spot. It's those who can't easily get care that is the problem.
Care is easy to get for just about everyone (let's leave out corner-case specialty needs). Anybody can walk into an emergency room - by law they have to be treated. Most should be able to afford a $75-$100 annual check up.
 
HSAs coupled w a high deduct ins plan are great for those w higher incomes $6k/yr tax free savings account (I'm up to $30k in mine) but they are not a good option for those with more modest incomes.

Hey just another 120,000 to pay for that kidney transplant. Keep saving
 
And those with modest incomes are the ones least likely to have HSAs work for them. So what have we gained? People who can already afford healthcare aren't the trouble spot. It's those who can't easily get care that is the problem.

I've long stated the failure of Obamacare was that it is just a govt money grab for insurers bc their was no public option. If you need a subsidy then you should be on a govt plan, we shouldn't be shipping govt money to private insurers...it makes no sense.

Ideally everyone would be given a govt plan at birth, it should be bare (meaning no elective surgeries) to keep costs down but should serve peoples basic healthcare needs. It would also have to be smart so no acts of god approaches to keep 90 year old gram-gram alive for 2 more weeks when she is terminal.

Pay for this via a payroll tax, take it off the businesses books, and then have businesses contribute for the full boat of their employees SS costs.
 
In other words, you think consumers are too stupid to understand all this complicated stuff and therefore require the government to do the shopping for them.

Do I have that about right?

Consumers can somehow navigate multiple stores with hundreds of thousands of items and find the best deal on the things they want and need, but are incapable of doing that with healthcare purchases?

Government has no problem forcing us to comply with ever more-complex and voluminous tax laws, but asking them to shop around for the best price on Viagra is a bridge too far?

Frankly, I'm insulted by this line of reasoning.

Then again, maybe the voters really ARE stupid.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/14/politics/obamacare-voters-stupid-explainer/
I'm not talking about viagra. If you know exactly what you want, it's just a matter of making a few phone calls to get the best price. But what about treating cancer? Where do you start? Can you reasonably expect people to shop around for the best price of chemo? What about the dozens of other drugs they will use? Shop around for all them, too? How about the multiple doctors, nurses, and machines they will use? And we haven't even gotten into what happens if you have to have surgery. Then you expect patients to shop around for the best surgeon, support crew, anesthetists, and all the drugs they use during surgery? No. It's completely unreasonably to expect people to be able to negotiate such a bargaining burden.
 
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Hey just another 120,000 to pay for that kidney transplant. Keep saving

You do realize i have insurance as well (your reading comp is awful) and plan on always carrying ins right??? I don't understand your irrational views towards tax free savings.

I'm sorry jscott for being able to save at a high rate...i am one of those white devils.
 
WTF? There's a contradiction right there, government involvement means no free market. Cost cannot be controlled when money is constantly thrown into the system, that's basic economics. Supply and quality will decline when try to control costs, that's basic economics. Health insurance has never been free market, it has almost always been regulated at the state level.
It may sound like a contradiction, but in practice, it's not. Every country in the world that has single payer system also has costs far lower than ours while simultaneously covering everybody. What exactly are we holding onto here?
 
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Let's get serious. No Republican has a plan to replace Obamacare. It took nearly 15 years to craft the ACA. Democrats actually started working on it in the mid 90's after they got their big healthcare push shot down. So the idea that one person, let alone an entire party, can come up with an alternative in just a few months or even a year or two is not realistic.

As for HSAs. They work quite quite well for some people but in no way will be able to be a national plan. They are simply not practical to be used as a general solution to healthcare.
ACA is increasingly being proven not to be a solution either. Next year the price increases are going to higher than expected and the networks will be narrowing. It's a piece of crony capitalism that will fall if it's own weight. The death spiral has begun. You can ignore that but it's still true
 
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It may sound like a contradiction, but in practice, it's not. Every country in the world that has single payer system also has costs far lower than ours while simultaneously covering everybody. What exactly are we holding onto here?

Ideology over efficiency
 
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And don't get me wrong about HSAs. If someone wants a hodgepodge system with a hundred different solutions, then HSAs would be a great addition. Their ability to help healthcare is similar to the idea of opening up state lines or tort reform. Each one can knock a few percentage points off costs. But a few percentage points won't get us there. Which is why the idea of single payer is so compelling. Single payer could knock costs down by huge amounts.
 
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ACA is increasingly being proven not to be a solution either. Next year the price increases are going to higher than expected and the networks will be narrowing. It's a piece of crony capitalism that will fall if it's own weight. The death spiral has begun. You can ignore that but it's still true
Oh, I agree that the ACA isn't the solution. And I personally didn't think it would be after it was passed. The reason why I supported it is because it's better than what we used to have which was 1 in 5 without coverage while still having the most expensive healthcare in the world. Costs haven't really come down after the ACA, but at least we've got a lot more covered, which is progress.
 
Hey just another 120,000 to pay for that kidney transplant. Keep saving

What part of "high deductible" don't you understand? The deductible isn't $120,000.

This is the problem. Health insurance under Obamacare is like your car insurance covering oil changes, tires, and other maintenance and repairs. That would be ridiculously expensive.

Healthcare should cover the big stuff. An office visit shouldn't be covered at all.
 
I'm not talking about viagra. If you know exactly what you want, it's just a matter of making a few phone calls to get the best price. But what about treating cancer? Where do you start? Can you reasonably expect people to shop around for the best price of chemo? What about the dozens of other drugs they will use? Shop around for all them, too? How about the multiple doctors, nurses, and machines they will use? And we haven't even gotten into what happens if you have to have surgery. Then you expect patients to shop around for the best surgeon, support crew, anesthetists, and all the drugs they use during surgery? No. It's completely unreasonably to expect people to be able to negotiate such a bargaining burden.

It's not just that. . . it's all the unexpected stuff too.

Look say I go to the hospital to get a surgery and lets even say I have had the ability to shop ahead of time for such surgery. Say it's a single bypass.

So I go in and get the surgery and while they are in there the doctors note that I actually need another bypass so now I need a 2 way bypass. But the prices for a single bypass and a 2 way bypass are different. Should they sow me up and then tell me I need another bypass so I can then pay for a 2nd bypass?? Because I have not had the opportunity to shop around for a 2 way bypass.
What if after my bypass I get an infection from the bypass. Can I really shop around hospitals to see which ones give me the best price on the antibodic IV?

What if there are other complications that I have to treat?

On top of that lets not forget we are talking about freaking hospitals here. There are only so many in one area. Each hospital might only realistically have to compete with a few other hospitals at most. On top of that as you go up in complexity of what you are doing the competition gets fewer and fewer as you have to go to the biggest and best equipped hospitals to be treated.

For example for the absolute worst case scenarios around here, you need to go to either Chicago or Indy and that's your choices. Now we have some pretty solid and well equipped hospitals around here and they can cover things 99% of the time. But when things get the absolute worst then you got to go to Chicago or Indy. That's not a lot of competition.
 
What part of "high deductible" don't you understand? The deductible isn't $120,000.

This is the problem. Health insurance under Obamacare is like your car insurance covering oil changes, tires, and other maintenance and repairs. That would be ridiculously expensive.

Healthcare should cover the big stuff. An office visit shouldn't be covered at all.

For some people an office visit is too expensive. You really think the poor have $120+ on hand to see the doctor?
 
I'm not talking about viagra. If you know exactly what you want, it's just a matter of making a few phone calls to get the best price. But what about treating cancer? Where do you start? Can you reasonably expect people to shop around for the best price of chemo? What about the dozens of other drugs they will use? Shop around for all them, too? How about the multiple doctors, nurses, and machines they will use? And we haven't even gotten into what happens if you have to have surgery. Then you expect patients to shop around for the best surgeon, support crew, anesthetists, and all the drugs they use during surgery? No. It's completely unreasonably to expect people to be able to negotiate such a bargaining burden.

Of course you would shop around for the best place to get Chemo. Why the hell would you not?

And so you get a dozen prescription. Why wouldn't you shop around for the best price for each of them. Too hard?

If the surgery is not emergency surgery, but planned in advance, why wouldn't you shop around? I'd want the best center AND the best price, just like I shop around for everything else I purchase in my life.

Do you just go to the grocery store and throw whatever in your cart because comparing the price per ounce is too hard?
 
It's not just that. . . it's all the unexpected stuff too.

Look say I go to the hospital to get a surgery and lets even say I have had the ability to shop ahead of time for such surgery. Say it's a single bypass.

So I go in and get the surgery and while they are in there the doctors note that I actually need another bypass so now I need a 2 way bypass. But the prices for a single bypass and a 2 way bypass are different. Should they sow me up and then tell me I need another bypass so I can then pay for a 2nd bypass?? Because I have not had the opportunity to shop around for a 2 way bypass.
What if after my bypass I get an infection from the bypass. Can I really shop around hospitals to see which ones give me the best price on the antibodic IV?

What if there are other complications that I have to treat?

On top of that lets not forget we are talking about freaking hospitals here. There are only so many in one area. Each hospital might only realistically have to compete with a few other hospitals at most. On top of that as you go up in complexity of what you are doing the competition gets fewer and fewer as you have to go to the biggest and best equipped hospitals to be treated.

For example for the absolute worst case scenarios around here, you need to go to either Chicago or Indy and that's your choices. Now we have some pretty solid and well equipped hospitals around here and they can cover things 99% of the time. But when things get the absolute worst then you got to go to Chicago or Indy. That's not a lot of competition.
All excellent points. Negotiating prices for goods and services only works if the buyer and seller are somewhat even when it comes to understanding what they are buying. But we don't have that in healthcare. One side, the seller, has practically all the information on what they are selling, while the other side, the buyer, has practically none. Any economists will tell you that such a marketplace will not be efficient.

And there is also the problem refusing to buy. A healthy marketplace only exists if the buyer can say no. Marketplaces don't work if the consumer is forced to buy, which is exactly what we see in healthcare. When they have you cut open and have to do a second bypass, you don't have the ability to stop the surgery and say, Sorry, guys, this is just a little too expensive for my tastes.
 
Of course you would shop around for the best place to get Chemo. Why the hell would you not?

And so you get a dozen prescription. Why wouldn't you shop around for the best price for each of them. Too hard?

If the surgery is not emergency surgery, but planned in advance, why wouldn't you shop around? I'd want the best center AND the best price, just like I shop around for everything else I purchase in my life.

Do you just go to the grocery store and throw whatever in your cart because comparing the price per ounce is too hard?
Let's get honest here. When you go in for cancer treatment, cost goes out the window. When your life is on the line, you will pay whatever they tell you to pay, even if you have to sell off your house, your cars, and anything else you have. Pretending that buying cancer treatment is anything like buying a loaf of bread is just that: Pretending.
 
Let's get honest here. When you go in for cancer treatment, cost goes out the window. When your life is on the line, you will pay whatever they tell you to pay, even if you have to sell off your house, your cars, and anything else you have. Pretending that buying cancer treatment is anything like buying a loaf of bread is just that: Pretending.

People already do that. The newest, most-expensive cancer drugs aren't covered by insurance and are too expensive unless you're Donald Trump. So, people opt for the older, lower cost treatments.

And you know what? If I got cancer, I wouldn't spend every dime I have fighting it. I'd rather leave my family with a house and financial resources instead of homeless and broke. That would be selfish.
 
This should be in bold text above, because it is critical that people understand it, and politicians' plans address it.

The sad thing is this should be common sense to anyone who's ever used the healthcare system or been close to someone who has.
 
Trusting the government - of either party - to fix healthcare is like asking the drunk who just ran your family off the road to drive you to the hospital. Doesn't seem like a prudent decision. ;)

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," declared philosopher George Santayana. The U.S. “health care cost crisis” didn’t start until 1965. The government increased demand with the passage of Medicare and Medicaid while restricting the supply of doctors and hospitals. Health care prices responded at twice the rate of inflation (Figure 1). Now, the U.S. is repeating the same mistakes with the unveiling of Obamacare (a.k.a. “Medicare and Medicaid for the middle class”).

holly1.jpg


Figure 1: An Indexed Comparison of Health Care Inflation and Consumer Price Index in US from 1935 to 2009 (Source: US Census 2013) Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman wrote that medical price inflation since 1965 has been caused by the rising demand for health-care coupled with restricted supply (Friedman 1992). Robert Alford explained the minority view: "The market reformers wish to preserve the control of the individual physician over his practice, over the hospital, and over his fees, and they simply wish to open up the medical schools in order to meet the demand for doctors, to give patients more choice among doctors, clinics, and hospitals, and to make that choice a real one by public subsidies for medical bills" (Alford 1975). The majority of policymakers support either monopolization (e.g. typically Republicans) or nationalization (e.g., typically Democrats).

https://mises.org/blog/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive
 
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