Jim Jordan (Redux Joe Paterno, Dennis Hastert, Larry Nassar)

[armbartilt]

Actually it was med school. You lose the bet. Practiced sports medicine for over 20 years in kids and young adults as a pediatrician. I never saw one case of septic joint discovered by a penis check. It is diagnosed by a aspiration of a hot joint. If the aspiraration culture is found to be gonorrhea, then the std is diagnosed and treated. Checking the penis is not part of ortho exam for an injury unless the patient was kicked in the scrotum.
By the way gonorrhea arthritis rarely causes permanent joint damage. Staph is the serious form of septic arthritis, which when the diagnosis is delayed, does cause joint damage. Staph is also the most common cause for septic arthritis.

Not surprised you disagree if you were a pediatrician. quotes and Literature references are below

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2011/0915/p653.html
Patients with disseminated Neisseria gonorrhoeae infection are usually young, healthy, and sexually active.30 Disseminated gonococcal infection may have various clinical musculoskeletal presentations, with or without associated dermatitis. Patients typically display a migratory pattern of arthralgias, tenosynovial inflammation, or nonerosive arthritis.6,23,30 Blood cultures are seldom positive, and synovial fluid cultures are variable, with a positive result in only 25 to 70 percent of patients with gonococcal arthritis.19,23 When a disseminated gonococcal infection is suspected, cultures should be taken from potentially infected mucosal sites (e.g., urethra, rectum, pharynx, cervix).30,41


https://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0701/p83.html
Gonococcal arthritis is the most common type of nontraumatic acute mono-arthritis in young, sexually active persons in the United States.

I think you missed where I said non traumatic. Any penetrating wound would make skin flora the obvious etiology.

I don't know how much Gonorrhea you saw in your pediatric practice but You can diagnose septic joint with a penis check/culture (see above) and you can possibly prevent a septic joint with a penis check and treatment.

Physical exams are a lost art.

 

[thom67]

Not surprised you disagree if you were a pediatrician. quotes and Literature references are below

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2011/0915/p653.html
Patients with disseminated Neisseria gonorrhoeae infection are usually young, healthy, and sexually active.30 Disseminated gonococcal infection may have various clinical musculoskeletal presentations, with or without associated dermatitis. Patients typically display a migratory pattern of arthralgias, tenosynovial inflammation, or nonerosive arthritis.6,23,30 Blood cultures are seldom positive, and synovial fluid cultures are variable, with a positive result in only 25 to 70 percent of patients with gonococcal arthritis.19,23 When a disseminated gonococcal infection is suspected, cultures should be taken from potentially infected mucosal sites (e.g., urethra, rectum, pharynx, cervix).30,41


https://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0701/p83.html
Gonococcal arthritis is the most common type of nontraumatic acute mono-arthritis in young, sexually active persons in the United States.

I think you missed where I said non traumatic. Any penetrating wound would make skin flora the obvious etiology.

I don't know how much Gonorrhea you saw in your pediatric practice but You can diagnose septic joint with a penis check/culture (see above) and you can possibly prevent a septic joint with a penis check and treatment.

Physical exams are a lost art.

Yes, I have seen and treated gonorrhea frequently in my practice. Have you?
You still did not answer my questions. What type of medicine do you practice and how many cases of septic arthritis have you seen and or treated?
We were discussing penis checks when a doctor is seeing a patient with an injured joint. Non traumatic swollen joints are a different case. Checking male genitalia is also part of routine physical exams and when presented with symptoms of pain/drainage of penis. It is NOT part of an exam for an injury.
Why would you try to diagnose a septic joint with a penis check/culture when you are presented with a possible septic joint? The way to diagnose a septic joint is to aspirate the joint, not check the penis! You cannot diagnose a septic joint with a penis check! I certainly hope you are not practicing medicine.
You are correct on one thing. If you diagnose gonorrhea early and treat, you would prevent that patient from developing a septic joint from the gonorrhea. However, non traumatic septic joints are very uncommon unless there are predisposing risks.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Because we live in a 24 hour news cycle, every bit of trump news is decried individually as fake news.

Here is what it looks like when all the fake news is put into one article. Sure fake news fake news fake news but when a guy who admittedly is swimming in Russian money denies having a relationship with Russian govt it doesn’t pass the smell test.

https://www.google.com/amp/nymag.co...amp/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html

Also, I like the idea of using Wikipedia to challenge doctors. It’s not like 10+ years of specialized training means anything. We have the internet now!!

 

[ArturoFuente]

Yes, I have seen and treated gonorrhea frequently in my practice. Have you?
You still did not answer my questions. What type of medicine do you practice and how many cases of septic arthritis have you seen and or treated?
We were discussing penis checks when a doctor is seeing a patient with an injured joint. Non traumatic swollen joints are a different case. Checking male genitalia is also part of routine physical exams and when presented with symptoms of pain/drainage of penis. It is NOT part of an exam for an injury.
Why would you try to diagnose a septic joint with a penis check/culture when you are presented with a possible septic joint? The way to diagnose a septic joint is to aspirate the joint, not check the penis! You cannot diagnose a septic joint with a penis check! I certainly hope you are not practicing medicine.
You are correct on one thing. If you diagnose gonorrhea early and treat, you would prevent that patient from developing a septic joint from the gonorrhea. However, non traumatic septic joints are very uncommon unless there are predisposing risks.

And waiting....and waiting...

 

[armbartilt]

Yes, I have seen and treated gonorrhea frequently in my practice. Have you?
You still did not answer my questions. What type of medicine do you practice and how many cases of septic arthritis have you seen and or treated?
We were discussing penis checks when a doctor is seeing a patient with an injured joint. Non traumatic swollen joints are a different case. Checking male genitalia is also part of routine physical exams and when presented with symptoms of pain/drainage of penis. It is NOT part of an exam for an injury.
Why would you try to diagnose a septic joint with a penis check/culture when you are presented with a possible septic joint? The way to diagnose a septic joint is to aspirate the joint, not check the penis! You cannot diagnose a septic joint with a penis check! I certainly hope you are not practicing medicine.
You are correct on one thing. If you diagnose gonorrhea early and treat, you would prevent that patient from developing a septic joint from the gonorrhea. However, non traumatic septic joints are very uncommon unless there are predisposing risks.

You were discussing a traumatic injury of the ankle. From the start I was referencing a swollen ankle without injury. Go back and read it again. You should pay more attention to detail. If that is the detail you provide your patients I feel bad for them. They deserve better.
I Graduated medical school AOA (thats with honors for those not doctors), family practice residency, sports medicine fellowship, now I teach this at a University with a large undergraduate population in a medium size city (~2 million). We treat both professional and collegiate sports teams. You need some remedial training there doc? Maybe retirement is looming? Maybe that is best for all.

I have practice evidence based medicine for 20 years. Peer reviewed journal references (EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE) was already provided to support my position. I doubt you read it all or you would not be making these asinine posts. You are giving only your opinion without references about a different issue. (NOT evidence based and poor attention to detail). I have provided the standard of care as agreed by many (aka peer reviewed literature) for the issue I addressed.

I have a coffee cup that says "your google search is not the same as my board certification". In your case maybe that google search is a step up in care! Maybe you are a fraud? really just a trainer or chiro pretending to be a doctor. Maybe that's why you were unable to understand the medical journal articles.

“There are only two sorts of doctors: those who practice with their brains, and those who practice with their tongues.”—William Osler You know the type, like the guy who only provides opinions and no evidence.

Never argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience--Mark Twain. Time to ignore you.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Oh yeah!

 

[nu2u]

You were discussing a traumatic injury of the ankle. From the start I was referencing a swollen ankle without injury. Go back and read it again. You should pay more attention to detail. If that is the detail you provide your patients I feel bad for them. They deserve better.
I Graduated medical school AOA (thats with honors for those not doctors), family practice residency, sports medicine fellowship, now I teach this at a University with a large undergraduate population in a medium size city (~2 million). We treat both professional and collegiate sports teams. You need some remedial training there doc? Maybe retirement is looming? Maybe that is best for all.

I have practice evidence based medicine for 20 years. Peer reviewed journal references (EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE) was already provided to support my position. I doubt you read it all or you would not be making these asinine posts. You are giving only your opinion without references about a different issue. (NOT evidence based and poor attention to detail). I have provided the standard of care as agreed by many (aka peer reviewed literature) for the issue I addressed.

I have a coffee cup that says "your google search is not the same as my board certification". In your case maybe that google search is a step up in care! Maybe you are a fraud? really just a trainer or chiro pretending to be a doctor. Maybe that's why you were unable to understand the medical journal articles.

“There are only two sorts of doctors: those who practice with their brains, and those who practice with their tongues.”—William Osler You know the type, like the guy who only provides opinions and no evidence.

Never argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience--Mark Twain. Time to ignore you.

Up until this point, the match was pretty close.... a couple of takedowns by each MD, an escape, and some riding time.

With this takedown, however, I believe you have earned the "armbartilt" username. Major back points. The ref is ready to slap the mat. This is headed for a major decision or fall unless thom67 can get to his feet and bring some serious offense.

 

[pablow]

Up until this point, the match was pretty close.... a couple of takedowns by each MD, an escape, and some riding time.

With this takedown, however, I believe you have earned the "armbartilt" username. Major back points. The ref is ready to slap the mat. This is headed for a major decision or fall unless thom67 can get to his feet and bring some serious offense.

Unless Dr. Thom is out mowing the yard, I think this one's over.

 

[thom67]

You were discussing a traumatic injury of the ankle. From the start I was referencing a swollen ankle without injury. Go back and read it again. You should pay more attention to detail. If that is the detail you provide your patients I feel bad for them. They deserve better.
I Graduated medical school AOA (thats with honors for those not doctors), family practice residency, sports medicine fellowship, now I teach this at a University with a large undergraduate population in a medium size city (~2 million). We treat both professional and collegiate sports teams. You need some remedial training there doc? Maybe retirement is looming? Maybe that is best for all.

I have practice evidence based medicine for 20 years. Peer reviewed journal references (EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE) was already provided to support my position. I doubt you read it all or you would not be making these asinine posts. You are giving only your opinion without references about a different issue. (NOT evidence based and poor attention to detail). I have provided the standard of care as agreed by many (aka peer reviewed literature) for the issue I addressed.

I have a coffee cup that says "your google search is not the same as my board certification". In your case maybe that google search is a step up in care! Maybe you are a fraud? really just a trainer or chiro pretending to be a doctor. Maybe that's why you were unable to understand the medical journal articles.

“There are only two sorts of doctors: those who practice with their brains, and those who practice with their tongues.”—William Osler You know the type, like the guy who only provides opinions and no evidence.

Never argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience--Mark Twain. Time to ignore you.

Of course I am discussing traumatic arthritis. That is the point of the discussion when the OSU doctor examined penises when he examined athletes with injuries.
Why are you discussing non traumatic swollen joints? The discussion at hand is the penis check when an injury has occurred. That is what began this discussion based on what occurred at OSU. You defended the doctor who examined the penis when athletes came in wth joint injuries. You also stated or implied that septic arthritis can be diagnosed by examining the penis. I am sure as a trained professional, you know that septic arthritis is diagnosed with a joint aspiration, not a penis check.
If a doctor is seeing a patient with a suspected septic joint(swollen, tender and hot), that doctor will first aspirate the joint and treat that joint(if infection present)with antibiotics. Taking a history and exam to find out whether there is info related to gonorrhea is certainly reasonable, but it does not change the course of treatment.
You are the one who said only knuckleheads question a trained professional meaning the doctor at OSU who was being questioned because he frequently examined the penis when the athlete presented with an ankle or wrist injury. There was no mention of athletes presenting to him with hot swollen joints and no history of injury. I also stated that examination of genitalia is expected when a physical exam is done or if there are symptoms such as pain or drainage from the penis.

 

[Ohio_Hawk]

Question: If most victims hide their trauma, stuff it down deep inside, how was this alleged sexual abuse so widely known? How could this deep down inside hidden trauma be regularly joked about among wrestlers?

Do you understand why so many sense something nefarious? Im not questioning your expertise but the representations of the behavior of the wrestlers back then contradicts your profile of a victim

I have no idea where your "contradiction of a victim's profile" stems from. There is a simple answer as to why "so many know" about such episodes in human affairs. News like this spreads, gets talked about, rumored about, joked about. All it takes is one or two stories--whether true or untrue--to make it out into the public, and the salacious nature of the episodes carries itself. People other than the victims talk, plain and simple. But there is a vast difference between those who are actually victimized and those who merely talk about it. Serious victims won't engage in the talk that causes a case to become "widely known." But, stuff comes out. The rest of us who are not victims will talk aplenty about what happened. Some of that talk just might be true. Unless and until investigations are undertaken, we are all just speculating.

I have only made two points in all this. First, serious allegations--and these are serious--need to be treated with fairness, not just brushed aside. It is the very tendency to brush things aside that allows true perpetrators to continue doing damage. Again, just look at Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, Roger Ailes, or any other high profile perpetrator. These people carry a powerful persona, and in some cases hold others' careers in their hands. Folks who don't want to risk "getting involved" often turn away, or worse, give support to the offender. Recall how Billy Bush laughed along with and encouraged the Donald Trump when he so grossly bragged about grabbing women--even married women--by their genitals. When he got caught by the public release of the Access Hollywood tape, Mr. Bush was ashamed of his behavior. But his first instinct? Go along with it. Suck up to big Donald Trump. Laugh it off lest you get mocked as some kind of "goody goody."

Secondly, I am interested in the results of a real investigation. Some investigations are just show pieces, as we know. But most of them manage to uncover some truth that is not otherwise available to the public rumor mill. All we have are rumors about Jim Jordan. I have not condemned him. I personally happen to think his politics are terrible, but I certainly can't--and won't--condemn him for something about which I have no knowledge. Having said that, there are plenty of folks who are completely and unswervingly convinced that all the accusations must be false. They insist on giving Jim Jordan a pass because they betray a prejudice against his accusers. Jordan's accusers are bad, therefore Jordan must be innocent... or so goes the logic. How the hell do they know? They don't know anything more than I do.

In short, it is just as wrong to prejudicially dismiss the accusations against Jim Jordan as it is to prejudicially accuse him.

 

[texas twister]

Here is from USA Today with the breaking story (or there abouts)
Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio denied recent accusations that he knowingly ignored alleged sexual abuse at Ohio State University while he was an assistant wrestling coach in the 1990s.

Several former Ohio State wrestlers have accused Jordan of lying about being unaware of alleged sexual misconduct by former wrestling team physician Dr. Richard Strauss.

"It's not true," Jordan told POLITICO in a Tuesday night interview. "I never knew about any type of abuse. If I did, I would have done something about it. And look, if there are people who are abused, then that's terrible and we want justice to happen." Jordan worked as an assistant wrestling coach for the Buckeyes from 1987 to 1995.

You that claim Jordan knew about sexual abuse, specify exactly what sexual abuse did he actually know about. Voyeurism is not classified as abuse and neither is creepiness.

 

[rossel 33]

Because we live in a 24 hour news cycle, every bit of trump news is decried individually as fake news.

Here is what it looks like when all the fake news is put into one article. Sure fake news fake news fake news but when a guy who admittedly is swimming in Russian money denies having a relationship with Russian govt it doesn’t pass the smell test.

https://www.google.com/amp/nymag.co...amp/2018/07/trump-putin-russia-collusion.html

Also, I like the idea of using Wikipedia to challenge doctors. It’s not like 10+ years of specialized training means anything. We have the internet now!!

Who needs to go to a doctor?
Anyone with medical needs... just write out your questions, symptoms, etc., and trust that you'll get the correct answer from this message board.

 

[rossel 33]

was an xray taken?

can we be sure there was no traumatic injury?

 

[thom67]

Here is from USA Today with the breaking story (or there abouts)
Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio denied recent accusations that he knowingly ignored alleged sexual abuse at Ohio State University while he was an assistant wrestling coach in the 1990s.

Several former Ohio State wrestlers have accused Jordan of lying about being unaware of alleged sexual misconduct by former wrestling team physician Dr. Richard Strauss.

"It's not true," Jordan told POLITICO in a Tuesday night interview. "I never knew about any type of abuse. If I did, I would have done something about it. And look, if there are people who are abused, then that's terrible and we want justice to happen." Jordan worked as an assistant wrestling coach for the Buckeyes from 1987 to 1995.

You that claim Jordan knew about sexual abuse, specify exactly what sexual abuse did he actually know about. Voyeurism is not classified as abuse and neither is creepiness.

Jordan is very careful to say he knew of no “abuse” 20 years ago. He apparently knew about wrestlers who went to the doctor with injuries and the doctor played with their “parts”. Just because those wrestlers did not use the term “sexual abuse” when they talked about that doctor 20 years ago, does not mean that sexual abuse did not occur.

 

[IAChief32]

Jordan is very careful to say he knew of no “abuse” 20 years ago. He apparently knew about wrestlers who went to the doctor with injuries and the doctor played with their “parts”. Just because those wrestlers did not use the term “sexual abuse” when they talked about that doctor 20 years ago, does not mean that sexual abuse did not occur.

Somebody playing with your man parts back then is pretty much the same as one doing it today. If anything, it would have been way worse because of the level of homophobia (at least thats what we've been told) in the 1980s and 90s. This is why I'm surprised nobody cleaned the doc's clock. Today, we are told not to judge and if you are going to accuse a gay person of wrong doing, you best come correct with proof because very few in a university administration will be on your side. Back then, somebody just "acting gay" would have earned him a lot of snide remarks and jokes in the locker room. "Homo" jokes were part and parcel of any sports team back in the day.

 

[texas twister]

Jordan is very careful to say he knew of no “abuse” 20 years ago. He apparently knew about wrestlers who went to the doctor with injuries and the doctor played with their “parts”. Just because those wrestlers did not use the term “sexual abuse” when they talked about that doctor 20 years ago, does not mean that sexual abuse did not occur.

What wrestlers did he know this about? Your charge against Jordan right now has no substance to it unless you can name names of wrestlers that reported it to Jordan.

 

[dmm53]

Good in-depth article about Jim Jordan in the The Rolling Stone:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...-knowledge-of-sexual-abuse-ohio-state-699465/

 

[winwithhumility]

I found the Rolling Stone article a hatchet job. JMO

 

[WildTurk]

This is why I'm surprised nobody cleaned the doc's clock.

Not gonna lie, I had to read that sentence twice

 

[texas twister]

I had no idea how big of a homophobic creep Jordan was.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-knowledge-of-sexual-abuse-ohio-state-699465/

Article sucks. It mislabels someone as a queer hater when they are only in favor o traditional marriage. Wise up and learn the difference. What a bunch of ideologue idiots.

 

[el dub]

Article sucks. It mislabels someone as a queer hater when they are only in favor o traditional marriage. Wise up and learn the difference. What a bunch of ideologue idiots.

LOL I promise to fight for your right to enter a traditional marriage if you promise to mind your own business.

 

[el dub]

Article sucks. It mislabels someone as a queer hater when they are only in favor o traditional marriage. Wise up and learn the difference. What a bunch of ideologue idiots.

Btw.... I’ve heard it said that many who protest gay marriage are repressed homosexuals.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Article sucks. It mislabels someone as a queer hater when they are only in favor o traditional marriage. Wise up and learn the difference. What a bunch of ideologue idiots.

How does gay marriage affect you? It doesn’t.

I don’t think anyone who is anti-gay marriage can call anyone an ideologue idiot (if in fact it is what you were doing)

 

[thom67]

What wrestlers did he know this about? Your charge against Jordan right now has no substance to it unless you can name names of wrestlers that reported it to Jordan.

I have made no charge about anything. I just repeated his statements about not having any wrestlers reporting “abuse”. Isn’t that what has recently stated?
Jordan has since admitted to this after the backlash from his original denial of knowing anything about it. He now states that it was just locker room talk, not abuse.

 

[texas twister]

How does gay marriage affect you? It doesn’t.

I don’t think anyone who is anti-gay marriage can call anyone an ideologue idiot (if in fact it is what you were doing)

Doesn't matter whether gay marriage effects me or not. Jordan having a moral belief that gay marriage is immoral cannot be conflated to mean he is a homophobe. There are gays that are against gay marriage too. Are they homophobes too? It is simply a cheap trick by Progressives to gain support. It is like pulling out the race card.

 

[texas twister]

I have made no charge about anything. I just repeated his statements about not having any wrestlers reporting “abuse”. Isn’t that what has recently stated?
Jordan has since admitted to this after the backlash from his original denial of knowing anything about it. He now states that it was just locker room talk, not abuse.

Exactly. Now, many on the forum lynch him for making a truthful claim and call him a liar.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

Exactly. Now, many on the forum lynch him for making a truthful claim and call him a liar.

He's being called a liar, because "locker room talk" is completely different from "I never heard one thing about it, if I had I would have done something about it".

 

[lookleft goright]

So who is the ideologue? People who abide by a 2000 year old book? Or someone who says love who you want and get whatever government protections others get?

I have a moral belief that white people’s egos have caused every war of the last 200 years. You would call me a racist in a second and play the white victim card, no?

Conservatives believe Donald trump reads the Bible before bed and you talk about progressive tricks?

Guy, get a grip. You’re an angry white guy who doesn’t like that the American dream no longer means white American male dream. Your fear of competition is unhealthy and unAmerican.

There have been a lot of wars in the Middle East. While not labeled as wars, the killing of people from different villages in Africa and China are another example. It depends on whose words you want to use. The revolutions in Central America are another example. For some reason, people keep finding reasons to kill other people and I don't think limiting it to a white man's ego is very worldly of you.

Actually it is kind of racist to think that the color of a person's skin causes them to go to war. Sort of like saying the color of a man's skin means he is dumb or isn't equal to someone with a different skin color.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

There have been a lot of wars in the Middle East. While not labeled as wars, the killing of people from different villages in Africa and China are another example. It depends on whose words you want to use. The revolutions in Central America are another example. For some reason, people keep finding reasons to kill other people and I don't think limiting it to a white man's ego is very worldly of you.

Actually it is kind of racist to think that the color of a person's skin causes them to go to war. Sort of like saying the color of a man's skin means he is dumb or isn't equal to someone with a different skin color.

Who drew the false middle eastern boundaries that created ethnic strife?

Europe post WW2. Not up for debate.

Africa? Same deal for the most part.

That being said, yeah, I do think it would be wrong to blame white people for wars. I used that as an example to prove a point. Specifically that one can have an opinion which is vile. The right to an opinion Still exists. Saying we must respect that worldview and make room for it is simply stupid.

That’s how the anti-gay marriage worldview should be looked at too.

For the record I am only against illogical hypocrites. Their skin color is irrelevant.

 

[nearfall2]

Who drew the false middle eastern boundaries that created ethnic strife?

Europe post WW2. Not up for debate.

The boundaries did not create the ethnic strife in the Middle East. The Nebi Musa riots of 1920 is just one example of ethnic strife in that part of the Middle East well before WWII, and it goes back into the Russian migration just in modern history. Odd that that is not up for debate. I could care less about any of the arguments in this thread. Just hate revised history.

This thread is a $h!t show.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

The boundaries did not create the ethnic strife in the Middle East. The Nebi Musa riots of 1920 is just one example of ethnic strife in that part of the Middle East well before WWII, and it goes back into the Russian migration just in modern history. Odd that that is not up for debate. I could care less about any of the arguments in this thread. Just hate revised history.

This thread is a $h!t show.

If I’m not mistaken (and I last took a class on colonial history in college 16 years ago so I may be off), wasn’t the Arab world promised freedom if they stood up to the Ottoman Empire and then colonization continued through WW2 anyways? I think that was around 1910. The impact of colonization and how it was “morally superior” certainly has reprucussions lasting through today.

If you look at the world map we use in education it makes Europe and America look huge. A to scale map would make Africa dwarf Europe.

Even if my worldview were that white people were put on earth to sow discord and were put here by Satan, even a quote in the Bible doesn’t give me the right to have government treat them differently. Yet, somehow it’s the defense for “traditional marriage”. wanting to deprive others of rights because of your own religion is abhorrent.

 

[el dub]

Doesn't matter whether gay marriage effects me or not. Jordan having a moral belief that gay marriage is immoral cannot be conflated to mean he is a homophobe. There are gays that are against gay marriage too. Are they homophobes too? It is simply a cheap trick by Progressives to gain support. It is like pulling out the race card.

Thankfully your hateful, spiteful faux moralistic world view is on its way out. And no, we won’t miss you when you are gone.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Thankfully your hateful, spiteful faux moralistic world view is on its way out. And no, we won’t miss you when you are gone.

Guys like him are okay saying there are fine people protesting with Nazis and that we also hold blame for poor Russia relations, but he’ll be damned if he doesn’t get the right to impose his views on what others do on the bedroom.

And we wonder what’s happened to the world smh.

 

[nearfall2]

If I’m not mistaken (and I last took a class on colonial history in college 16 years ago so I may be off), wasn’t the Arab world promised freedom if they stood up to the Ottoman Empire and then colonization continued through WW2 anyways? I think that was around 1910. The impact of colonization and how it was “morally superior” certainly has reprucussions lasting through today.

If you look at the world map we use in education it makes Europe and America look huge. A to scale map would make Africa dwarf Europe.

Even if my worldview were that white people were put on earth to sow discord and were put here by Satan, even a quote in the Bible doesn’t give me the right to have government treat them differently. Yet, somehow it’s the defense for “traditional marriage”. wanting to deprive others of rights because of your own religion is abhorrent.

The Palestinian's had hatred for the Jews while under the Ottoman Empire, but were forced to live peacefully together. It was when they finally were given freedom by the English that the political rhetoric escalated and they became aggressive toward the Jews which coincided with the massive influx created when the Russians displaced them.

Again this thread is ridiculous. No one is interested in my political views so why would I waste my time writing them on a wrestling forum. I was just correcting the idea that strife in the Middle East started after WWII.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

The Palestinian's had hatred for the Jews while under the Ottoman Empire, but were forced to live peacefully together. It was when they finally were given freedom by the English that the political rhetoric escalated and they became aggressive toward the Jews which coincided with the massive influx created when the Russians displaced them.

Again this thread is ridiculous. No one is interested in my political views so why would I waste my time writing them on a wrestling forum. I was just correcting the idea that strife in the Middle East started after WWII.

As I said later "
That being said, yeah, I do think it would be wrong to blame white people for wars. I used that as an example to prove a point. Specifically that one can have an opinion which is vile. The right to an opinion Still exists. Saying we must respect that worldview and make room for it is simply stupid. "

But this thread did go to shit. I def. contributed to that. sry

 

[lookleft goright]

Can someone stop this merry go round. I am getting dizzy.

Thanks near fall for the history lessons. I was going to say something, but when people say things that are so factually incorrect, it is usually because it allows them to believe something they want to believe. So I just don't waste any more time throwing facts around. Like a man once said, "why cast pearls before swines, lest they just trample them under".

Is there a way we can tie gun control to gay marriage to white supremacy to hawkeye nation dominance? Because Hawkeye nation dominance is about the only thing not discussed in this thread.

As a side note - this is one of the reasons I love this site. You never know where it will go. This is a great place to discuss ideas. Stay classy Hawkeye nation.

 

[lookleft goright]

Just because I believe white people are the only ones that should be able to come through the front door doesn't make me racist. Just because I believe men are the only gender that should be doctors doesn't make me sexist. Damn Progressive conflation tricks.
#FukProgress

Not all white people should be able to come thru the front door. Only white men. The women can use the back door also.

 

[Herkuleez5]

Not that this has anything to do with any of the arguments going on here but carry on....

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Not that this has anything to do with any of the arguments going on here but carry on....

Except we are talking about something else entirely.

And don't assume because I don't think immigrants are a problem, or that Muslims are terrorists, or that unless you oggle me in a bathroom I can't bring myself to care where you pee that I am not a gun owner.

And while you struggle with sides... "America First" --- The Nazi's aren't so bad---- I believe in Putin more than America's deep state (Reagan just rolled over in his grave)--- Europe is our foe--- just a few to wrap your arms around.

But that's right, if its negative and about the people you agree with, its fake news.