Keegan Murray last year

WorldSeriesChamps2015

HR Legend
Gold Member
Jul 11, 2017
28,737
36,505
113
34
China
Look, I think Keegan is great, but who would you have sat? Garza? umm no, Wieskamp? Umm no. Frederick when he was actually healthy? noo. Was he going to play PG? I like his handles but he's too good and pretty tall for full time PG. So no over Jbo. PF? Maybe, but Nunge was good when he was healthy and ConAir wasn't getting bunched for a freshman.

I think Keegan learned a lot from the upperclassman last year and he is thriving this season.

I think Kris is what Keegan was last season, learning more and more and I think he is going to be great next season. Needs to be more consistent but I think he is in good hands in learning and getting more experience this year.
 

SI_NYC

HR MVP
Dec 15, 2001
1,503
2,384
113
Look, I think Keegan is great, but who would you have sat? Garza? umm no, Wieskamp? Umm no. Frederick when he was actually healthy? noo. Was he going to play PG? I like his handles but he's too good and pretty tall for full time PG. So no over Jbo. PF? Maybe, but Nunge was good when he was healthy and ConAir wasn't getting bunched for a freshman.

I think Keegan learned a lot from the upperclassman last year and he is thriving this season.

I think Kris is what Keegan was last season, learning more and more and I think he is going to be great next season. Needs to be more consistent but I think he is in good hands in learning and getting more experience this year.
Connor should have sat.
 

HawkInDC

HR All-State
Gold Member
Oct 5, 2001
818
500
93
Greg Gard is clearly is an idiot coach like Fran since he had the BIG's second best player this year Johnny Davis coming off the bench last year.

</sarcasm>
 

littlez

HR Heisman
Jan 29, 2003
7,281
5,879
113
If you would have had him in the (starting) lineup last year instead of that "supposed spark" off the bench maybe just maybe IOWA would have been more than a one and done tourney team?

Rip me apart on this and what's done is done but to be the best you should play the best.
Here's my take on that. Keegan clearly was special the minute he hit Iowa City, way ahead of where most thought he would be. Now was he ready to be in the starting lineup right away? Probably not. Now you can argue that 3/4's of the way through the season it was pretty clear how good he was. I don't have a problem w/saying he could have been in the starting lineup later in the year. Now, do I think it would have made any difference against Oregon? Very doubtful. Even though we had 2 NBA guys we were terribly unathletic on the defensive end. We got exposed at pretty much all 5 positions. As good as Luka was offensively that game he was equally bad on defense. JBO we know about as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HawkAttackDial911

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
40,585
68,544
113
Look, I think Keegan is great, but who would you have sat? Garza? umm no, Wieskamp? Umm no. Frederick when he was actually healthy? noo. Was he going to play PG? I like his handles but he's too good and pretty tall for full time PG. So no over Jbo. PF? Maybe, but Nunge was good when he was healthy and ConAir wasn't getting bunched for a freshman.

I think Keegan learned a lot from the upperclassman last year and he is thriving this season.

I think Kris is what Keegan was last season, learning more and more and I think he is going to be great next season. Needs to be more consistent but I think he is in good hands in learning and getting more experience this year.
Connor played the 4 last year.

Delete your account.
 

drew_hawk

HR All-American
Jan 16, 2016
2,532
5,556
113
So glad you got that in....Someone had to make a snide remark about Connor in every thread. It was your turn evidently.
Nothing snide about playing the players who provide the most upside.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
15,119
19,907
113
Too much attention is paid to the starting line-up. Don't forget that it's important that the 2's contribute to the game as well.

Focusing on minutes makes more sense to me. I don't know what Keegan's minutes were last year, but I know he played a lot.

While we are at it, I'd like to make my stock picks a year after the fact so I can see how things pan out. :rolleyes:
 

SI_NYC

HR MVP
Dec 15, 2001
1,503
2,384
113
Too much attention is paid to the starting line-up. Don't forget that it's important that the 2's contribute to the game as well.

Focusing on minutes makes more sense to me. I don't know what Keegan's minutes were last year, but I know he played a lot.

While we are at it, I'd like to make my stock picks a year after the fact so I can see how things pan out. :rolleyes:
Murray played 18mpg Connor played 22mpg, fyi.
 

hawkeyeinmo

HR All-American
Feb 7, 2017
3,259
4,112
113
KM is nowhere close to being the same player he was as a true freshmen. Not the same but I laugh at the people who point to the success of George Kittle in the NFL as proof that Ferentz is an idiot for not playing him more earlier in his career at Iowa. KM was top 5 in minutes played last year and towards the end was usually top 3-4 in minutes per game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronman

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
40,585
68,544
113
KM is nowhere close to being the same player he was as a true freshmen. Not the same but I laugh at the people who point to the success of George Kittle in the NFL as proof that Ferentz is an idiot for not playing him more earlier in his career at Iowa. KM was top 5 in minutes played last year and towards the end was usually top 3-4 in minutes per game.
Wasn’t Kittle injured most of his Iowa career?
 

jonesy5960

HR All-American
Gold Member
Sep 6, 2012
4,269
7,338
113
KM is nowhere close to being the same player he was as a true freshmen. Not the same but I laugh at the people who point to the success of George Kittle in the NFL as proof that Ferentz is an idiot for not playing him more earlier in his career at Iowa. KM was top 5 in minutes played last year and towards the end was usually top 3-4 in minutes per game.
Not arguing your point necessarily, but Keegan wasn't top 5 in minutes per game last year overall or during conference. He came in at number 6 at 18 and 19 mpg respectively.
 

HawkAssassin

HR MVP
Gold Member
Jun 24, 2016
1,126
1,363
113
Iowa
If you go to Bart Torvik’s site, you can isolate the stats from all freshmen in high major conferences last year. BPM is a measure of all stat production on a per minute basis.

Here’s the top 5 from last year.

Mobley (USC) - 12.6
Jackson (Kentucky) - 7.4
Cunningham (Ok St) 7.4
Barnes (Fl St) - 7.2
Murray - 7.1

That’s 3 of the top 4 picks plus a late first rounder.

Fran does a good job of building an offense around 1 player. It’s why Iowa will have 6 different guys with 1st team honors after this year in the Fran era. But it can be a problem when you box yourself into playing a certain way. Developing multiple options can be important.
 

jonesy5960

HR All-American
Gold Member
Sep 6, 2012
4,269
7,338
113
Greg Gard is clearly is an idiot coach like Fran since he had the BIG's second best player this year Johnny Davis coming off the bench last year.

</sarcasm>
Not a great comparison. While true that Davis came off the bench last year he played as much as a starter at 24 minutes per game which was basically tied for 4th most on that team. That became 25 mpg during conference play. Both of these are 6 minutes higher than Keegan's last year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawks4Life86

IamHawkeye

HR Legend
Oct 1, 2001
13,008
2,346
113
Wow, now people are complaining about last year too. Any complaints about 2 years ago?
\\\\\\YES, Fran advised the twins not to come to Iowa right after HS, instead go to DME academy. They could
have been requited away. :)
 

hawkeyeinmo

HR All-American
Feb 7, 2017
3,259
4,112
113
Not arguing your point necessarily, but Keegan wasn't top 5 in minutes per game last year overall or during conference. He came in at number 6 at 18 and 19 mpg respectively.
You are right I missed a player. But I believe he was 3rd in minutes played in the Oregon Game. Especially after Nunge went down he consistently played more than 20 mins a game.
 

SB_SB

HR Heisman
Apr 4, 2006
6,009
5,716
113
\\\\\\YES, Fran advised the twins not to come to Iowa right after HS, instead go to DME academy. They could
have been requited away. :)

Sorry, that decision was made 3 years ago, I specifically asked about 2 years ago. :)
 

Titanhawk2

HR Legend
Jul 14, 2011
11,915
5,197
113
If you would have had him in the (starting) lineup last year instead of that "supposed spark" off the bench maybe just maybe IOWA would have been more than a one and done tourney team?

Rip me apart on this and what's done is done but to be the best you should play the best.
He wasn't scoring as much last year, so no. He would have had to average 60 minutes per game (you know, 40 minute game) to meet his scoring average of this year. So obviously, he's not playing like he played last year, he's much much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronman

IamHawkeye

HR Legend
Oct 1, 2001
13,008
2,346
113
Uh, two years ago Keegan and Kris were playing at the academy. --And could have bee recruited away Yes the decision to go there was more like 3 yr, so some of both. Fun math, okay. :)
 

Gary-Waterloo

HR All-State
Apr 26, 2003
563
400
63
I think Fran did what a lot of coaches do and limit KM's minutes to not wear him down or over expose his game. Right or wrong, you see coaches do that with freshman who aren't super stars. I am not looking back at the stats but my memory is the KM did wear down a little toward the end if the season and his shooting slumped.

I think too many of us think our line of thinking is the only right line if thinking. I may not agree with Fran on some rotations but normally I get what he is trying to do. Many hate Connor, and he can be frustrating, but he does bring strengths too. Everything isn't all one way or the other. Everyone who acts like Fran is an idiot because he doesn't do want you want should take a breath and look objectively to what is being done.

Si, I don't agree with Fran all of the tone but he also knows more about basketball than 99% of the people here. I think Iowa would have been better last year if JT played more and Fran let him play through some struggles to be better at the end of the hear but I also understand why JT was taken out when he got out of control. It is easy to be "right" when you are watching and say what if.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronman

Ronman

HR Heisman
Jan 4, 2004
9,475
7,965
113
Planet Iowa
Some of you guys think Keegan was a finished product last year. If you look at his season averages, every one of his stats has improved this year. Players normally progress as they get older and more experience. This is clearly the case with Keegan and the majority of that is due to the hard work he has put in to developing his game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: unoHawkeye

Ronman

HR Heisman
Jan 4, 2004
9,475
7,965
113
Planet Iowa
I think Fran did what a lot of coaches do and limit KM's minutes to not wear him down or over expose his game. Right or wrong, you see coaches do that with freshman who aren't super stars. I am not looking back at the stats but my memory is the KM did wear down a little toward the end if the season and his shooting slumped.

I think too many of us think our line of thinking is the only right line if thinking. I may not agree with Fran on some rotations but normally I get what he is trying to do. Many hate Connor, and he can be frustrating, but he does bring strengths too. Everything isn't all one way or the other. Everyone who acts like Fran is an idiot because he doesn't do want you want should take a breath and look objectively to what is being done.

Si, I don't agree with Fran all of the tone but he also knows more about basketball than 99% of the people here. I think Iowa would have been better last year if JT played more and Fran let him play through some struggles to be better at the end of the hear but I also understand why JT was taken out when he got out of control. It is easy to be "right" when you are watching and say what if.
Excellent post, but trying to inject some rationality onto this board may be a lost cause.
 

Hawks4Life86

HR All-State
Dec 19, 2005
746
1,078
93
Wow, now people are complaining about last year too. Any complaints about 2 years ago?
People should be complaining about last year and Fran’s tenure in general. We have the NPOY, Weezy and Keegan and can’t even make it to the Sweet 16. It would be different if that happened and Fran had made a deep tournament run in the past, but he hasn’t.
 

Hawks4Life86

HR All-State
Dec 19, 2005
746
1,078
93
He wasn't scoring as much last year, so no. He would have had to average 60 minutes per game (you know, 40 minute game) to meet his scoring average of this year. So obviously, he's not playing like he played last year, he's much much better.
NPOY was eating up a ton of points. Keegan provides much more to the team than his scoring.