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Kerkvliet Reopens Recruiting

here because some guys still talk wrestling, titles or not. some guys want to win again some guys want to be cry babies. they love bubba now.
Let’s get one thing straight: we’ve ALWAYS loved Bubba. He gave us numerous bonus points in duals, and as his finals opponent, assured us that Metcalf would be a National Champ. After all that generosity, he made Davey count the lights on national Television.
 
that breaks his heart.the fake indignation from the principled cesspool
Nice post but what the heck does it have to do with the subject at hand? Your post was basically "I love lamp."

I don't get the Cael outrage. If PSU found a better prospect and better fit with whomever on on their roster, this is an example of a head coach doing his job.
Nice post but what the heck does it have to do with the subject at hand? Your post was basically "I love lamp."

I don't get the Cael outrage. If PSU found a better prospect and better fit with whomever on on their roster, this is an example of a head coach doing his job.
cause he’s replacing these top ten pfp kids with top 3 pfp kids
Than when these kids end up being studs, it’s all hail Cael.
It’s if Carl recruited Yianni over Nick Lee which I’m sure he probably tried to do.
I was impressed with what he did with Conway and Rasheed.
But for the most part, it feels more like he’s buying his top team.
That’s how it is now, so Iowa’s gotta do the same thing and we kinda are but still not near the level psu is
 
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cause he’s replacing these top ten pfp kids with top 3 pfp kids
Than when these kids end up being studs, it’s all hail Cael.
It’s if Carl recruited Yianni over Nick Lee which I’m sure he probably tried to do.
I was impressed with what he did with Conway and Rasheed.
But for the most part, it feels more like he’s buying his top team.
That’s how it is now, so Iowa’s gotta do the same thing and we kinda are but still not near the level psu is

If Cael had gotten Yianni to choose PSU, then he really would have deserved all of the praise he gets.

Momma D. was not having any of that....She was Cornell from day #1 :)
 
You guys really wouldn't take Kerkvliet over Cass?

I think I would.

You are asking the wrong question. The right question is, “How in the hell can you do both?”

If Iowa opened up recruiting on Kerk, to actually spend money when we already have Cass signed and showing up, how would we afford a guy like Assad or anybody else? Even taking emotion or loyalty out of it, the logic of it doesn’t make sense. If Costello was next in line, it makes sense.

To answer your question, I would say no. I wouldn’t have been sure until I saw Parris vs Cass. It wasn’t that Cass beat him. It was the quickness of Cass’s feet and his athletic ability. He will not have to survive solely on size.While Cass may have wrestling IQ on a Parris or Kerk, they are both more developed physically...dudes are chiseled. Gable and Cass are not.
 
I watched Kerk go with Gable and I saw Cass get his but whipped. I'm worried Cass may be a guy who is near his ceiling in high school already. Hope I'm wrong. When we were looking for HWT, I was hoping for Parris or Schultz. We're seeing more success with smaller guys moving up to the big class.
 
I watched Kerk go with Gable and I saw Cass get his but whipped. I'm worried Cass may be a guy who is near his ceiling in high school already. Hope I'm wrong. When we were looking for HWT, I was hoping for Parris or Schultz. We're seeing more success with smaller guys moving up to the big class.

Didn’t you watch that in folkstyle? Also, those dudes work out together...a lot.
 
cause he’s replacing these top ten pfp kids with top 3 pfp kids
Than when these kids end up being studs, it’s all hail Cael.
It’s if Carl recruited Yianni over Nick Lee which I’m sure he probably tried to do.
I was impressed with what he did with Conway and Rasheed.
But for the most part, it feels more like he’s buying his top team.
That’s how it is now, so Iowa’s gotta do the same thing and we kinda are but still not near the level psu is

Maybe part of the problem is that you, like several other posters, have selective memory and only recall a limited number of success stories. Why don't you add to your list performances by guys like James English, Matt Brown and Frank Molinaro who all performed much higher then their recruiting ranking. So that's 5 examples, not two. Then factor in the reason there isn't even more is because Penn State's highly ranked recruits work out at a much higher percentage then the average.

btw, when was the last time Brands had a national champ that was ranked outside the top 40? Cael has two.
 
I watched Kerk go with Gable and I saw Cass get his but whipped. I'm worried Cass may be a guy who is near his ceiling in high school already. Hope I'm wrong. When we were looking for HWT, I was hoping for Parris or Schultz. We're seeing more success with smaller guys moving up to the big class.
I think Kyle Snyder is warping your perception of HWT.'s.
 
I watched Kerk go with Gable and I saw Cass get his but whipped. I'm worried Cass may be a guy who is near his ceiling in high school already. Hope I'm wrong. When we were looking for HWT, I was hoping for Parris or Schultz. We're seeing more success with smaller guys moving up to the big class.
I think Kyle Snyder is warping your perception of HWT.'s.
Thats what I’m thinking as I read this.... Kyle Snyder is a prodigy.... doesn’t mean that 220 pound guys are going to rule the HWY division in the future
 
cause he’s replacing these top ten pfp kids with top 3 pfp kids
Than when these kids end up being studs, it’s all hail Cael.
It’s if Carl recruited Yianni over Nick Lee which I’m sure he probably tried to do.
I was impressed with what he did with Conway and Rasheed.
But for the most part, it feels more like he’s buying his top team.
That’s how it is now, so Iowa’s gotta do the same thing and we kinda are but still not near the level psu is


Improving a roster is a coach's job. If he thinks the athlete fits and is better than what he has, why would he not go for it?

And let's stop pretending that wrestlers don't get better under Cael. Dumb.
 
Improving a roster is a coach's job. If he thinks the athlete fits and is better than what he has, why would he not go for it?

And let's stop pretending that wrestlers don't get better under Cael. Dumb.
Not arguing they don’t get better under Cael.
Guys get a lot better under a lot of other coaches too, they just don’t get noticed as much cause they don’t start out with the recruits Carl does.
Brands, Brian Smith, Flynn, Manning, and Popolizio do it all the time, they just take fringe 100 recruits and improve them to AAs rather than starting with a pfp and turning them to finalists.
 
Not arguing they don’t get better under Cael.
Guys get a lot better under a lot of other coaches too, they just don’t get noticed as much cause they don’t start out with the recruits Carl does.
Brands, Brian Smith, Flynn, Manning, and Popolizio do it all the time, they just take fringe 100 recruits and improve them to AAs rather than starting with a pfp and turning them to finalists.

I don't believe anyone would disagree with this.
 
Not arguing they don’t get better under Cael.
Guys get a lot better under a lot of other coaches too, they just don’t get noticed as much cause they don’t start out with the recruits Carl does.
Brands, Brian Smith, Flynn, Manning, and Popolizio do it all the time, they just take fringe 100 recruits and improve them to AAs rather than starting with a pfp and turning them to finalists.

Of course they do. But you're basically upset he's a good coach and runs a good program.
 
Maybe part of the problem is that you, like several other posters, have selective memory and only recall a limited number of success stories. Why don't you add to your list performances by guys like James English, Matt Brown and Frank Molinaro who all performed much higher then their recruiting ranking. So that's 5 examples, not two. Then factor in the reason there isn't even more is because Penn State's highly ranked recruits work out at a much higher percentage then the average.

btw, when was the last time Brands had a national champ that was ranked outside the top 40? Cael has two.
Well, Brands did take a kid who never won a state title and made him into an Olympian so there’s that
 
Of course they do. But you're basically upset he's a good coach and runs a good program.
No
I’m upset at the unfair head start he seems to have regardless of the scholarship limit.
And I don’t like the, “we win cause we have fun” crap that every single one of his robot wrestlers says in interviews. I don’t buy it.
He wins cause he was on a Wheaties Box and some of the countries best recruits get enamoured with him and seemingly take way less money to wrestle for him even tho he’d kick them to the curb in a heart beat if it meant he could find someone else that could get 5 more points at NCAAs.
He’s an amazing recruiter. He’s a good coach on par with the Brands, Smiths, Manning’s, etc
 
I think Kyle Snyder is warping your perception of HWT.'s.

Gwiz was a smaller heavy. too. Those guys are the best HWTs of the last 15 years.

But also think about not just the top guys, but what the other guys are doing. Jacob Kasper. The last two Okie State HWTs (I think both of them are blown up 197s). Ty Walz. Snyder's level of dominance is an anomaly, of course, but the trend is there, I think.

Didn’t you watch that in folkstyle? Also, those dudes work out together...a lot.

Yes, and that would be the style they are competing against one another in college.
 
Gwiz was a smaller heavy. too. Those guys are the best HWTs of the last 15 years.

But also think about not just the top guys, but what the other guys are doing. Jacob Kasper. The last two Okie State HWTs (I think both of them are blown up 197s). Ty Walz. Snyder's level of dominance is an anomaly, of course, but the trend is there, I think.



Yes, and that would be the style they are competing against one another in college.

Yea, but your comparison was Cass/Gable in freestyle vs Kerk/Gable in folk . Folkstyle is a lot slower paced , strategy is different. Gable could take Cass down five times in a folkstyle match and the score would be 10-4...still not even a major whereas in free, that would be a TF. I don't think Gable and Kerk have hit in freestyle so your comparison is faulty. Also, Costello kept it close with Stoll...Stoll only beat him 2-0 in wrestleoffs. By that logic, Costello should be ready to step in and fill Sam's shoes and finish top 5 after Sam leaves.
 
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Yea, but your comparison was Cass/Gable in freestyle vs Kerk/Gable in folk . Folkstyle is a lot slower paced , strategy is different. Gable could take Cass down five times in a folkstyle match and the score would be 10-4...still not even a major whereas in free, that would be a TF. I don't think Gable and Kerk have hit in freestyle so your comparison is faulty. Also, Costello kept it close with Stoll...Stoll only beat him 2-0 in wrestleoffs. By that logic, Costello should be ready to step in and fill Sam's shoes and finish top 5 after Sam leaves.

I mean, we were just having the reverse form of this debate when talking about Cass vs. Parris. It was an ass whipping, anyway you want to look at it. Kerk, while being much smaller, went toe to toe w/ Gable.

And you're comparing wrestleoffs between teammates where the better man is working his way back from a serious injury vs. two guy who wrestle in the same state and it is impossible for them to be working out together nearly as much, since they're not on the same team. And again, that's with Kerk being WAY smaller.

That's all while ignoring Kerk's stellar credentials which are also beyond Cassioppi's, with his multiple age level world medals.
 
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Konrad: 4,2,1,1

Mocco: 2,1,1, 2,
2005 Hodge trophy, 2008 Olympian

Mocco was the best Heavy of the Era. Yes, Konrad had his number his senior year. But Mocco's ledger was untouchable until Snyder.

I mean, he lost his final year including getting pinned. By pure placement, Mocco had better numbers, but peak vs. peak, Konrad was better. Regardless, Snyder and Gwiz are better, IMO.
 
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I watched Kerk go with Gable and I saw Cass get his but whipped. I'm worried Cass may be a guy who is near his ceiling in high school already. Hope I'm wrong. When we were looking for HWT, I was hoping for Parris or Schultz. We're seeing more success with smaller guys moving up to the big class.

LOL You were hoping to land guys Cass has already beat handily?
 
LOL You were hoping to land guys Cass has already beat handily?

Well, since Cass hadn't wrestled either of them until a week ago, and still hasn't wrestled Schultz as far as I know....

Either way, a high school loss in a style Parris had almost zero experience with where the scores can pile up quickly...I dunno. I obviously want Cass to be the best wrestler than all of them now. It's similar to my New York Giants: I didn't want them to draft a running back with the second overall pick, I thought there were better options, but now that he's there, I want him to be a Hall of Famer.
 
I mean, he lost his final year including getting pinned. By pure placement, Mocco had better numbers, but peak vs. peak, Konrad was better. Regardless, Snyder and Gwiz are better, IMO.

Man, I just don't see those guys being able to score on Konrad. Konrad was a bigger, stronger version of Coon and both Snyder and Gwiz took losses to Coon in their careers. If I had to rank the 285's(at their PEAKS) over the last 20 years:

1. Konrad
2. Neal
3. Snyder
4. Mocco
5. Gwiz
6. Rowlands
7. Nelson
8. Coon
9. Rey
10.Fox

Most of those guys were pretty damn big.
 
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No
I’m upset at the unfair head start he seems to have regardless of the scholarship limit.
And I don’t like the, “we win cause we have fun” crap that every single one of his robot wrestlers says in interviews. I don’t buy it.
He wins cause he was on a Wheaties Box and some of the countries best recruits get enamoured with him and seemingly take way less money to wrestle for him even tho he’d kick them to the curb in a heart beat if it meant he could find someone else that could get 5 more points at NCAAs.
He’s an amazing recruiter. He’s a good coach on par with the Brands, Smiths, Manning’s, etc

What's unfair about it? Are you not familiar with the victor getting the spoils?
 
Well, since Cass hadn't wrestled either of them until a week ago, and still hasn't wrestled Schultz as far as I know....

I'm not the expert here but I believe they have wrestled several times with some wins for each.

Konrad: 4,2,1,1

Mocco: 2,1,1, 2,
2005 Hodge trophy, 2008 Olympian

Mocco was the best Heavy of the Era. Yes, Konrad had his number his senior year. But Mocco's ledger was untouchable until Snyder.

Winner.
 
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all smart coaches will recruit over guys. remember when lee and teasdale verballed,when this board loved teasdale, two other recruits went away. wilke was gonna sit so downey could win a title,murin,turk,etc.

I see your point. A little. But with 33 and 41 pounders I can see it. They may grow into bigger weights or have flexibility to cut down a class, making them more mobile for the lineup and their individual career. But for a projected 285, and to recruit over them? That is a whole 'nother can of worms. Maybe not wrong, but certainly a little underhanded.
 
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You guys really wouldn't take Kerkvliet over Cass?

I think I would.

Pure talent? Maybe so, but having personally never seen them wrestle each other, not positive. But right now I am positively 100% a fan of Cass and CAN NOT wait to see him black and gold. The kid absolutely loves wrestling and wants to be a Hawkeye. That is the kid I want in our room. No doubt
 
Well, since Cass hadn't wrestled either of them until a week ago, and still hasn't wrestled Schultz as far as I know....

Either way, a high school loss in a style Parris had almost zero experience with where the scores can pile up quickly...I dunno. I obviously want Cass to be the best wrestler than all of them now. It's similar to my New York Giants: I didn't want them to draft a running back with the second overall pick, I thought there were better options, but now that he's there, I want him to be a Hall of Famer.
How can you watch Schultz and think he is a better folkstyle prospect than Cass? Cass moves better, and is a lot more dynamic than Schultz. Schultz doesn't do anything but attempt to work from upper body ties, and he's not any better from that position than Cass.

I'm also unclear as to why people think Cass is some type of finished product. He's an explosive athlete with a lot of room to grow. Extremely underrated athlete.

As for Parris, plenty of guys have come into wrestling over the years with "high upside", and not done crap. Mason Parris is the ultimate wait and see type guy, and I'd rather have Cass. I'd rank the prospects something like

1. Steveson
2. Kerkvliet
3. Cass
4. Parris
5/6. Nevills, Schultz
 
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Well, since Cass hadn't wrestled either of them until a week ago, and still hasn't wrestled Schultz as far as I know....

Either way, a high school loss in a style Parris had almost zero experience with where the scores can pile up quickly...I dunno. I obviously want Cass to be the best wrestler than all of them now. It's similar to my New York Giants: I didn't want them to draft a running back with the second overall pick, I thought there were better options, but now that he's there, I want him to be a Hall of Famer.

i believe Cass met Schultz in best of 3 for jr wtts in GR, schultz's specialty. I don't recall exact scores, but i think it was close, and Cass won 1 of the matches.
 
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