Kimberly Potter should not have been charged with a crime at all
- Thread starter NorthernHawkeye
- Start date
Trad, I can sympathize with her, but she committed a blatant screw up that caused a death. My gawd, how do you pull your black, heavier weapon from your dominant side, and not a yellow taser from your non dominant side? Btw, one is heavier than the other. She was trained on this very thing.
I don’t want her in prison for life, but the sentence was appropriate, IMO.
And you’re talking to a person that defended the officer involved in the Michael Brown shooting.
This is California law, but is useful as a persuasive argument here,
"hitting the accelerator instead of the brake seems to me to be a clearly negligent act." - California v. Weller (where the D was found guilty of negligent homicide)
She obviously wasn't trained enough.
I put most of the blame on the police department that allowed her to walk around with these weapons.
And as an HR guy, that's hard for me to say, but it's the truth here. She should not have been in this position in the first place if she couldn't figure that out.
Here’s kind of a similar case, but involving paramedics. Two paramedics are charged in Colorado with manslaughter or similar for accidentally overdosing a patient with ketamine. It’s questionable if that even led directly to his death as his blood levels were therapeutic. No conviction yet but we will see.
www.cnbc.com
Elijah McClain case: 3 Colorado cops, 2 paramedics charged with manslaughter, negligent homicide in Black man's death
Elijah McClain, 23, died after he was stopped by cops while walking in Aurora, Colorado, put in a chokehold and injected with ketamine, a sedative.
Here’s kind of a similar case, but involving paramedics. Two paramedics are charged in Colorado with manslaughter or similar for accidentally overdosing a patient with ketamine. It’s questionable if that even led directly to his death as his blood levels were therapeutic. No conviction yet but we will see.
Elijah McClain case: 3 Colorado cops, 2 paramedics charged with manslaughter, negligent homicide in Black man's death
Elijah McClain, 23, died after he was stopped by cops while walking in Aurora, Colorado, put in a chokehold and injected with ketamine, a sedative.
Why the hell are paramedics injecting people at the scene of an arrest? That's crazy.
I suspect the knee on the neck had more to do with the cause of death there.
Last edited:
"Just because a case is thought to be winnable, doesn’t necessarily mean that the case should be prosecuted. Prosecutors have a lot of latitude in making these judgment calls."
The link you provided is a person who was texting and left the scene of an accident.
One of the jurors brought up the same point when they handled the taser in deliberations. But they weren't in the middle of a high stress situation with a wanted person related to a weapons charge.
Jury trials aren’t immune to the justice vs vengeance issue. In highly charged, emotional situations, they’re likely going to be a tool of vengeance. I consider this situation a tragedy and when firearms are introduced to any situation, the possibility of something going wrong increases dramatically. I think some uncomfortable truths have to be understood by both the police and the public.
As a parent, it would be hard to think this way, but at what point does the young victim bear some responsibility? The police had a legal obligation to arrest him.
He ran from police and had an active warrant regarding a firearms charge, and a scheduled court date for a felony aggravated robbery case, which is considered a “crime of violence” in MN.
Did he deserve to die? No but I think a lot of things tend to be forgotten during highly emotional times like this.
As a parent, it would be hard to think this way, but at what point does the young victim bear some responsibility? The police had a legal obligation to arrest him.
He ran from police and had an active warrant regarding a firearms charge, and a scheduled court date for a felony aggravated robbery case, which is considered a “crime of violence” in MN.
Did he deserve to die? No but I think a lot of things tend to be forgotten during highly emotional times like this.
Sure I did. You just have a closed mind.
I’m also pro-police, but I also believe that being pro-police means being pro-standards. Police have a very unique and critical role in our society. They walk a dangerous line every day, but part of safely walking that line means being held to high standards for safety. She didn’t just risk the deceased’s life that day, she could have killed one of her colleagues.
Apparently. Also, get to bed. It’s late. I’ll handle things since I’m two hours behind.
There’s a fine line sometimes between accident and crime…..but that’s why I think we need to hold our public defenders to a standard.
If I keep a loaded gun in my nightstand with safety off so I can react in a moment and a small child finds it and kills someone, should I be criminally liable? I didn’t mean for anyone to get hurt, but I would argue yes. I bring a deadly weapon into my home, so I should be absolutely on the hook for ensuring that it’s properly secured. These officers are trusted with lethal force - they have to be able to execute it in sound ways.
She did not haphazardly blast someone. And she was far from incompetent; the judge made that very clear when she made her sentencing ruling.
Use of force was necessary when Daunte Wright put that police officer's life in jeopardy. That police officer was in the car, of course, trying to prevent Daunte from driving off. Potter intended on using her taser but used her handgun instead. Many testified that using either the handgun or the taser would have been acceptable in that situation.
Daunte Wright had a VIOLENT HISTORY of shooting people in the head and car jacking people; he was wanted on a weapons charge. There was a restraining order out on him. Daunte Wright was obviously a very dangerous threat. And he was a dangerous threat to that police officer that day. But Daunte Wright didn't give a crap about anyone's life, especially a LEO's life. And Kim Potter responded, some testified appropriately, and ended the threat to the LEO's life.
There were witnesses who testified how, in the chaos that DAUNTE WRIGHT CREATED, this could have happened.
Good points.
As we know, there was a warrant for Daunte Wright's arrest on a weapons charge. If he hadn't resisted arrest and hadn't attempted to flee, none of this would have happened.
When Daunte Wright attempted to flee, he put a LEO's life at risk (the LEO was straddling the passenger seat, trying to prevent Daunte Wright from putting the car into DRIVE). If Wright had taken off like a bat out of hell, who knows what injuries that LEO would have sustained. LEOs like Kim Potter are trained to stop the threat. And that's what Kim Potter did; she stopped the threat to that LEO's life.
Here is some more info on Daunte Wright:
It is very likely the city will settle for over $20 million for wrongful death. But Daunte Wright's family might not see one penny.
Daunte Wright's victims also need justice. There are 2 lawsuits already against Daunte Wright's estate.
* In one law suit, it is alleged that Daunte Wright shot a man in the head, leaving him with severe brain damage, where the victim will need 24/7, very expensive care, for the rest of his life.
* In a 2nd law suit, it is alleged that Daunte Wright's accomplice shot a man while the accomplice and Daunte Wright car jacked the victim; it is alleged it was Daunte Wright who then drove the victim's car as Daunte Wright and the accomplice fled the scene.
Wright was not a good dude. At all. A woman having a restraining order against him is just one of the huge red flags. If this were your 20 year old kid, would you be proud?
The video that follows discusses the 2 lawsuits against Daunte Wright's estate.
Watch here:
The judge addressed this in the sentencing. Conversely to what you wrote, it was Daunte Wright who could have killed the LEO if Daunte Wright had been allowed to RECKLESSLY take off.
The judge said during sentencing that Kim Potter saw that the LEO's life was in jeopardy and as a result, fired JUST ONCE and only hit hit the threat, Daunte Wright.
The judge reminded the court room that neither the young lady in the passenger seat nor the LEO trying to prevent Daunte Wright from driving off were hit or in danger from that ONE SHOT that was fired.
So, you, sir, are flat out wrong.
And again, several testified that use of force was justified, whether that use of force were a hand gun or a taser.
So, was she going for the gun or going for the taser? The facts will be evaluated according to what she was trying to accomplish. It’s pretty clear that she was going for the taser and got the gun instead. That’s problematic.
What was she trying to accomplish? She was trying to stop the threat; and Daunte Wright was clearly a threat to the LEO's life.
Several testified that use of force was justified because Daunte Wright needed to be stopped. And they also testified that use of force could have been in the form of a hand gun or a taser. Kim Potter meant to use 1 use of force option but used the 2nd option, instead, and these folks, under oath, said the hand gun option was justified. Kim fired just 1 shot and hit the threat, and the threat only.
Oh, I don’t think any rational person would absolve Wright completely in this situation. He made errors in judgment as well that helped lead to his death.
However, based on Minnesota law Potter was charged appropriately, and found guilty by a jury. And her sentence was reduced substantially from what the prosecution requested.
Frankly, I would’ve been okay had the judge sentenced her to time served (or something along those lines-I don’t know the exact terminology for Minnesota), but 2 years is a heckuva lot shorter than 7 (which was requested) or the 10 year maximum under Minnesota law.
Something interesting that indicates Potter knew the law in the subsequent moments after the shooting, she’s shown on the ground inconsolable wailing “I’m going to prison.” I took that to mean she understood the consequences of such a tragic mistake.
It’s a sad case for Potter and her family no matter how you slice it. But it’s the law in Minnesota and if they want it changed there are mechanisms to do that.
The stated reason was that the patient was in excited delirium. He probably wasn’t but that’s beside the point. If a person is in excited delirium, you have to sedate. You can’t just restrain them and let them fight restraints.
Not sure a quote from St. Augustine hundreds of years ago has any application in this day and age.
And this expert testified under oath that it was not justified.
Kim Potter's use of deadly force against Daunte Wright was not appropriate, a use-of-force expert testified Wednesday at the former suburban Minneapolis police officer's manslaughter trial, undercutting a defense argument that she would have been justified in shooting Wright even if she didn't mean to.
“The use of deadly force was not appropriate and the evidence suggests a reasonable officer in Officer Potter’s position could not have believed it was proportional to the threat at the time,” said Seth Stoughton, a professor at the University of South Carolina School of Law.
Expert: Kim Potter was not justified in using deadly force
A use-of-force expert has testified that former Minnesota police officer Kim Potter was not justified in using deadly force when she fatally shot Daunte Wright
And this expert testified under oath that it was not justified.
Kim Potter's use of deadly force against Daunte Wright was not appropriate, a use-of-force expert testified Wednesday at the former suburban Minneapolis police officer's manslaughter trial, undercutting a defense argument that she would have been justified in shooting Wright even if she didn't mean to.
“The use of deadly force was not appropriate and the evidence suggests a reasonable officer in Officer Potter’s position could not have believed it was proportional to the threat at the time,” said Seth Stoughton, a professor at the University of South Carolina School of Law.
Expert: Kim Potter was not justified in using deadly force
A use-of-force expert has testified that former Minnesota police officer Kim Potter was not justified in using deadly force when she fatally shot Daunte Wrightabcnews.go.com
All this shows is there was enough reasonable doubt where she should have been found not guilty
What it shows is experts that testify support their side's position otherwise the prosecution and the defense wouldn't put them on the stand. Did you watch the Chauvin trial? There were two experts that testified on the use of force one who thought Chauvin was justified in his actions and one that laid out step by step why the actions that Chauvin made took Floyd's life. That is why there are juries. Their job is to weigh the testimony of both sides and decide which one makes the most sense to them. Potter's jury found her guilty.
Again, based on expert testimony, there was enough reasonable doubt where she should have been found not guilty. I have been on juries before; it's pretty clear that jurors don't understand what "beyond reasonable doubt" means but if they did, they would not have convicted her.
And you dragging the Chauvin case into the Kimberly Potter discussion is beyond ridiculous. The judge, in her sentencing remarks, stated that the Chauvin case did not apply in any form whatsoever to the Kimberly Potter case. And what do you do? You bring up the Chauvin case anyway.
It's clear you don't understand how the jury system works. I wasn't comparing Chauvin's actions with Potter's, I was using it as an example of two experts giving conflicting opinions. If Potter's attorneys feel the trial was unfair they can appeal, but they run the risk of the next judge giving her more jail time. I bet they don't appeal.
You really DON’T understand how the jury system works. Whether you agree with the outcome or not you were not there for the entire trial, nor did you participate in the discussions among the jury. They came to a unanimous conclusion and I’m not about to question them since I wasn’t involved.
You 2 REALLY don't understand how the jury system works.
I, on the other hand, fully understand "how the jury system works" and I fully understand the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt." And as a result of "how the jury system works," there are a lot of people, especially of color, who were wrongly convicted.
And again, gohawks50 bringing Chauvin into the discussion, trying to make comparisons, is beyond ridiculous. No LEO, especially Kimberly Potter, should ever be mentioned in the same sentence/paragraph as that monster.
I like you as a poster, but you’re simply wrong on this specific topic (i.e., Kim Potter).
