I was Army and in a warzone I hear ya on some points
Kirk Ferentz addresses the issues with a statement
- Thread starter Chishawk1425
- Start date
I think the players that are having/had good experiences probably don't want to voice their positive reviews because of the extreme backlash they'll receive.
Mental health and mental toughness can be two different things.
Exactly.
What's next? Military members tweeting about their drill Sargents with too high of expectations?
I spent 3 long years of my adulthood at Ft. Benning...
Society is Charmin Soft. Try being an 11B.
So happy James Daniels who was not recruited at all by big time programs who Doyle and KF got into a high draft choice and contact came back years after the fact to start this. I am not saying he is wrong but I guarantee without the Foley tragedy he wouldn’t be crapping on the people that got him in the NFL. And if people think Iowa is different than other schools right or wrong they are not.
100% agree, but nothing that's been stated from former players, that I've seen or read, would be detrimental to someone's mental health unless there were some underlying or unresolved issues. Perhaps I'm wrong or missed it, but are there any specific examples of traumatic experience(s) at Iowa other than being expected to act in a certain manner in the football facilities/while in uniform?
Psst he had major offers including OSU.
You'd be surprised...I'm told recruits now have "stress cards" when those pesky drill Sgts who are, you know, preparing you for stressful times and war become too mean.
Exactly. This is the culture right now. If you have a different opinion or a different experience. .. you are ridiculed and accused of being racist.
The whole Drew Brees thing is a PRIME example. He says he doesn't agree with kneeling for the national anthem... He gets blasted and called racist.... Because he has a love of country? And views that as a time reserved tod honor those who have fought for our country?
The mob mentally on social media is ABSOLUTELY OUT OF CONTROL.
With that, I'm done. Things will work themselves out. Some of these guys will change or recant their comments, when they realize they are making Iowa Football sound 100% bad, when it is far from the truth.
This is likely how the players speaking out tonight probably felt for years and why they never spoke out to begin with. I truly hope we get the chance to hear the players who have had opposite experiences, which I’m sure there are many.
1984 Sand Hill alumni here as a 18yr old who thought he knew everything boy did I get a rude awakening lol
I'm definitely on the side of listening to what people have to say before coming to a conclusion and you've made some very valid points about not wanting to speak out as an individual against an entire program. However, the U of Iowa has a couple Dr.'s dedicated to diversity who work closely with athletes ( Dr. Tovar & Dr. Fox) there are also numerous assistant coaches of color available to confide in. I could be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that the culture was so toxic and so intimidating that they couldn't confide in any of these people. If it was indeed as bad as these former players say it was, it's just hard for me to imagine that it would take this long to hear about it. I'm definitely prepared to admit I was wrong and will happily condemn those involved if these early grievances prove to be true about Iowa being a toxic culture for POC, but until this comes to fruition I can't buy into the narrative of Doyle/Ferentz being fired or resigning.
Those are fair points. I’ve worked with athletes in numerous sports that have been victims of abusive cultures, even with coaches that have been around for a long freaking time. Some sports not even that popular. I’ve also worked with people like Dr Tovar in aiding clients. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes. The people who open up behind the scenes and the people who support them, often don’t have a lot of pull still. A lot of things will be brought up but not taken seriously. AD’s and head coaches have a TON of power. I have some wild stories that I unfortunately cannot tell on here (not involving iowa)
Great input ASUHawkeye, I'm happy this thread has, thus far, been relatively civil and provided some good dialogue among fans with differing opinions on the matter.
likewise! Appreciate the discussions. All I can say is the power in athletic departments goes beyond what we even care to know or admit. Sometimes I wish I hadn’t heard the stories I have. I love college sports but politics, power and money dictate it all.
This whole thing sounds like trash.
I had my college strength coach yell & cuss at me
Make fun of my tattoos & jewelry on numerous occasions!
Sounds like certain players didn't care for the strict regime & didn't want to conform to the rules & expectations that were clearly communicated during the recruitment process.
Sounds like Doyle thought he had a better relationship with these young men then he actually did.
I had my college strength coach yell & cuss at me
Make fun of my tattoos & jewelry on numerous occasions!
Sounds like certain players didn't care for the strict regime & didn't want to conform to the rules & expectations that were clearly communicated during the recruitment process.
Sounds like Doyle thought he had a better relationship with these young men then he actually did.
It’s strange when a player talks about the team bond with teammates but somehow was not paying attention when it was so prevalent based on many players? Not blaming anyone just seems odd. Usually if something is bad, everyone knows it.
Twitter vagueness should be a crime lol.
This is becoming like the #metoo movement. Right now everything coming out looks bad. With some distance, I think there is more separation between the bad and the pile-ons.
For example, some of the statements attributed to Doyle will stick as bad. BF making fun of a tattoo or someone thinking they should gave started don’t seem like big racial issues to me. We haven’t (as far as I can tell) had a lot of players transfer who then went on to dominate somewhere else.
For example, some of the statements attributed to Doyle will stick as bad. BF making fun of a tattoo or someone thinking they should gave started don’t seem like big racial issues to me. We haven’t (as far as I can tell) had a lot of players transfer who then went on to dominate somewhere else.
I take pride in being in touch with Iowa football but I have no clue what is going on here. Was there and article written that I’m not aware of, I’m aware of Faiths and James comments but they aren’t earth shattering
I interpret it as him criticizing the players that have come out; kind of a “don’t bite the hand that fed you/respect the program” type statement.
I don’t think Des has much time for anyone who is critical of KF and staff.
He and many others need to be more clear in what they are saying. Otherwise don't say anything at all.
And you wonder why KF doesn't like social media? In the cryptic passive aggressive ways people use it. The Twitter mobs. And constant selfies of "look at how awesome my life is"
He also had an older brother on the team. I would think Leshun might have at least said something to him privately.
I was thinking the same on players leaving to dominate elsewhere. A few probably but not many. Players transfer out these days often but what I think we underscore is how much weight black players put on making a new life based on getting to the next level even though the reality is it’s such a small percentage. Not all, but many don’t see or perceive the value of the education.
I think what this signals is it’s time for college sports to be education first driven again and let any player go directly to the NFL out of high school at age 18. You can express yourself any way you choose and make it on your own as a professional opportunity.
The interesting dynamic here is that the cultural team values that have made Ferentz so sucesssful and have put so many in the NFL are now viewed as the problem here. The Doyle issue aside, many of the complaints were around conforming to the white culture.
Ferentz runs a tight ship and joining Iowa is a bit like joining the military. He wants people to dress professionally in the facility and uphold those higher standards.
If Kirk does stay, can he be as successful going forward if his culture is loosened up?
Ferentz runs a tight ship and joining Iowa is a bit like joining the military. He wants people to dress professionally in the facility and uphold those higher standards.
If Kirk does stay, can he be as successful going forward if his culture is loosened up?
I agree with everything in your post. I am not condoning in any way racist behavior. What I am struggling to reconcile is that if there is a racial divide inside the football program how can we have coaches and support staff of color that would willingly put themselves in an adverse environment?
That's a different take I haven't yet seen in this thread - and glad you brought it up. Is Doyle an ass? Probably... based on all the sh&t coming out...but maybe it was his way of poking at the guys during workouts. Then it started getting too far without giving him (and other coaches) a second thought. If his shtick was all directed at the black players...then yes...he should take a hike
I see both sides to this. I see why the coaches don’t allow social media as it can consume someone which isn’t productive for them or what a team is trying to accomplish. On the other hand I do think everyone in the program from players to staff should have an avenue to voice concerns or treatment they are facing and those concerns need to be taken seriously. Right now I can’t tell if this is a symptom of a culture gone wrong like Penn State had or a situation where some players have views of treatment that vary from others. KF opening the lines of communication is the first step. Hopefully with players returning this weekend he can work with both the current team and former players in a way that moves things forward.
I agree - I would prefer to see "voicing concerns" handled internally (between coaches and players), but unfortunately its not the world we live in anymore... and never will be. But then some will say that things will never change unless it gets broadcast to the entire world. There is a happy medium some where
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anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba
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In other words, college sports is simply a part of the larger culture. So is the Catholic church. So is the Olympic Committee. So is government. There are no righteous, no not one.
Politics, power, and money have always ruled the world--every single aspect of it--and they always will. All we can do is try to mitigate the damage.
Right now, Iowa appears to have one huge mitigation challenge ahead of it. I have no idea how all of that will turn out, but just when you think things can't get worse, they get worse. Like many Americans and many Hawkeye fans, I've been in some stage of depression since November of 2016. Then we have a pandemic. Then we have riots in the streets. And now this.
I have lived and worked with people of every color and religion all over the world, and I keep coming back to these two things: Treat others as you wish to be treated, and live and let live. If Iowa football and the rest of the world could just do those seemingly simple things, we'd all be a lot better off.
Instead, here we are, sad, frustrated, and depressed. There is no solace anywhere. So I guess all we can do is follow the advice of Winston Churchill: "When you're going through hell, keep going."
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