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Krugman: Fearing Fear Itself

cigaretteman

HB King
May 29, 2001
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Another good column by Paul today:

Like millions of people, I’ve been obsessively following the news from Paris, putting aside other things to focus on the horror. It’s the natural human reaction. But let’s be clear: it’s also the reaction the terrorists want. And that’s something not everyone seems to understand.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

Think, for a moment, about what France is and what it represents. It has its problems — what nation doesn’t? — but it’s a robust democracy with a deep well of popular legitimacy. Its defense budget is small compared with ours, but it nonetheless retains a powerful military, and has the resources to make that military much stronger if it chooses. (France’s economy is around 20 times the size of Syria’s.) France is not going to be conquered by ISIS, now or ever. Destroy Western civilization? Not a chance.

So what was Friday’s attack about? Killing random people in restaurants and at concerts is a strategy that reflects its perpetrators’ fundamental weakness. It isn’t going to establish a caliphate in Paris. What it can do, however, is inspire fear — which is why we call it terrorism, and shouldn’t dignify it with the name of war.

The point is not to minimize the horror. It is, instead, to emphasize that the biggest danger terrorism poses to our society comes not from the direct harm inflicted, but from the wrong-headed responses it can inspire. And it’s crucial to realize that there are multiple ways the response can go wrong.

It would certainly be a very bad thing if France or other democracies responded to terrorism with appeasement — if, for example, the French were to withdraw from the international effort against ISIS in the vain hope that jihadists would leave them alone. And I won’t say that there are no would-be appeasers out there; there are indeed some people determined to believe that Western imperialism is the root of all evil, and all would be well if we stopped meddling.

But real-world examples of mainstream politicians, let alone governments, knuckling under to terrorist demands are hard to find. Most accusations of appeasement in America seem to be aimed at liberals who don’t use what conservatives consider tough enough language.

A much bigger risk, in practice, is that the targets of terrorism will try to achieve perfect security by eliminating every conceivable threat — a response that inevitably makes things worse, because it’s a big, complicated world, and even superpowers can’t set everything right. On 9/11 Donald Rumsfeld told his aides: “Sweep it up. Related and not,” and immediately suggested using the attack as an excuse to invade Iraq. The result was a disastrous war that actually empowered terrorists, and set the stage for the rise of ISIS.

And let’s be clear: this wasn’t just a matter of bad judgment. Yes, Virginia, people can and do exploit terrorism for political gain, including using it to justify what they imagine will be a splendid, politically beneficial little war.

Oh, and whatever people like Ted Cruz may imagine, ending our reluctance to kill innocent civilians wouldn’t remove the limits to American power. It would, however, do wonders for terrorist recruitment.

Finally, terrorism is just one of many dangers in the world, and shouldn’t be allowed to divert our attention from other issues. Sorry, conservatives: when President Obama describes climate change as the greatest threat we face, he’s exactly right. Terrorism can’t and won’t destroy our civilization, but global warming could and might.

So what can we say about how to respond to terrorism? Before the atrocities in Paris, the West’s general response involved a mix of policing, precaution, and military action. All involved difficult tradeoffs: surveillance versus privacy, protection versus freedom of movement, denying terrorists safe havens versus the costs and dangers of waging war abroad. And it was always obvious that sometimes a terrorist attack would slip through.

Paris may have changed that calculus a bit, especially when it comes to Europe’s handling of refugees, an agonizing issue that has now gotten even more fraught. And there will have to be a post-mortem on why such an elaborate plot wasn’t spotted. But do you remember all the pronouncements that 9/11 would change everything? Well, it didn’t — and neither will this atrocity.

Again, the goal of terrorists is to inspire terror, because that’s all they’re capable of. And the most important thing our societies can do in response is to refuse to give in to fear.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion
 
Finally, terrorism is just one of many dangers in the world, and shouldn’t be allowed to divert our attention from other issues. Sorry, conservatives: when President Obama describes climate change as the greatest threat we face, he’s exactly right. Terrorism can’t and won’t destroy our civilization, but global warming could and might.

Yet again, this toolbag reveals what a loon he is. Six assassins started World War I. We have a whole bunch of countries encroaching on each other in Syrian airspace. What happens when we shoot down a Russian jet or vice versa? What happens if we "accidentally" bomb a Russian troop position? What happens if ISIS gets their hands on a nuke?

This is an amazingly dangerous situation. In comparison, climate change is about as threatening to civilization as rap music is.
 
Isn't Krugman an Ecommunist...err...Economist?

Somewhere between the fearmongering of the far right and the "all is fine, but what about the Crusades" idiots on the left (of which Obama and all three dem candidates seem to be) lies the truth. The problem with Krugman, ciggy and the other nutty liberals takes on this, is that they consider any mention of "radical Islam" and people actually pointing to reality AS fearmongering...rendering their opinions, meaningless and lacking credibility...like their opinions on most other issues.

BTW, "fearmongering" is not a word recognized by MS, as is gets the "red line" underneath it.
 
MBlS7Wr.gif
 
Another good column by Paul today:

Like millions of people, I’ve been obsessively following the news from Paris, putting aside other things to focus on the horror. It’s the natural human reaction. But let’s be clear: it’s also the reaction the terrorists want. And that’s something not everyone seems to understand.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

Think, for a moment, about what France is and what it represents. It has its problems — what nation doesn’t? — but it’s a robust democracy with a deep well of popular legitimacy. Its defense budget is small compared with ours, but it nonetheless retains a powerful military, and has the resources to make that military much stronger if it chooses. (France’s economy is around 20 times the size of Syria’s.) France is not going to be conquered by ISIS, now or ever. Destroy Western civilization? Not a chance.

So what was Friday’s attack about? Killing random people in restaurants and at concerts is a strategy that reflects its perpetrators’ fundamental weakness. It isn’t going to establish a caliphate in Paris. What it can do, however, is inspire fear — which is why we call it terrorism, and shouldn’t dignify it with the name of war.

The point is not to minimize the horror. It is, instead, to emphasize that the biggest danger terrorism poses to our society comes not from the direct harm inflicted, but from the wrong-headed responses it can inspire. And it’s crucial to realize that there are multiple ways the response can go wrong.

It would certainly be a very bad thing if France or other democracies responded to terrorism with appeasement — if, for example, the French were to withdraw from the international effort against ISIS in the vain hope that jihadists would leave them alone. And I won’t say that there are no would-be appeasers out there; there are indeed some people determined to believe that Western imperialism is the root of all evil, and all would be well if we stopped meddling.

But real-world examples of mainstream politicians, let alone governments, knuckling under to terrorist demands are hard to find. Most accusations of appeasement in America seem to be aimed at liberals who don’t use what conservatives consider tough enough language.

A much bigger risk, in practice, is that the targets of terrorism will try to achieve perfect security by eliminating every conceivable threat — a response that inevitably makes things worse, because it’s a big, complicated world, and even superpowers can’t set everything right. On 9/11 Donald Rumsfeld told his aides: “Sweep it up. Related and not,” and immediately suggested using the attack as an excuse to invade Iraq. The result was a disastrous war that actually empowered terrorists, and set the stage for the rise of ISIS.

And let’s be clear: this wasn’t just a matter of bad judgment. Yes, Virginia, people can and do exploit terrorism for political gain, including using it to justify what they imagine will be a splendid, politically beneficial little war.

Oh, and whatever people like Ted Cruz may imagine, ending our reluctance to kill innocent civilians wouldn’t remove the limits to American power. It would, however, do wonders for terrorist recruitment.

Finally, terrorism is just one of many dangers in the world, and shouldn’t be allowed to divert our attention from other issues. Sorry, conservatives: when President Obama describes climate change as the greatest threat we face, he’s exactly right. Terrorism can’t and won’t destroy our civilization, but global warming could and might.

So what can we say about how to respond to terrorism? Before the atrocities in Paris, the West’s general response involved a mix of policing, precaution, and military action. All involved difficult tradeoffs: surveillance versus privacy, protection versus freedom of movement, denying terrorists safe havens versus the costs and dangers of waging war abroad. And it was always obvious that sometimes a terrorist attack would slip through.

Paris may have changed that calculus a bit, especially when it comes to Europe’s handling of refugees, an agonizing issue that has now gotten even more fraught. And there will have to be a post-mortem on why such an elaborate plot wasn’t spotted. But do you remember all the pronouncements that 9/11 would change everything? Well, it didn’t — and neither will this atrocity.

Again, the goal of terrorists is to inspire terror, because that’s all they’re capable of. And the most important thing our societies can do in response is to refuse to give in to fear.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion
Another? He hasn't had one yet so I assume this is just more crap.
 
Another good column by Paul today:

Like millions of people, I’ve been obsessively following the news from Paris, putting aside other things to focus on the horror. It’s the natural human reaction. But let’s be clear: it’s also the reaction the terrorists want. And that’s something not everyone seems to understand.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

Think, for a moment, about what France is and what it represents. It has its problems — what nation doesn’t? — but it’s a robust democracy with a deep well of popular legitimacy. Its defense budget is small compared with ours, but it nonetheless retains a powerful military, and has the resources to make that military much stronger if it chooses. (France’s economy is around 20 times the size of Syria’s.) France is not going to be conquered by ISIS, now or ever. Destroy Western civilization? Not a chance.

So what was Friday’s attack about? Killing random people in restaurants and at concerts is a strategy that reflects its perpetrators’ fundamental weakness. It isn’t going to establish a caliphate in Paris. What it can do, however, is inspire fear — which is why we call it terrorism, and shouldn’t dignify it with the name of war.

The point is not to minimize the horror. It is, instead, to emphasize that the biggest danger terrorism poses to our society comes not from the direct harm inflicted, but from the wrong-headed responses it can inspire. And it’s crucial to realize that there are multiple ways the response can go wrong.

It would certainly be a very bad thing if France or other democracies responded to terrorism with appeasement — if, for example, the French were to withdraw from the international effort against ISIS in the vain hope that jihadists would leave them alone. And I won’t say that there are no would-be appeasers out there; there are indeed some people determined to believe that Western imperialism is the root of all evil, and all would be well if we stopped meddling.

But real-world examples of mainstream politicians, let alone governments, knuckling under to terrorist demands are hard to find. Most accusations of appeasement in America seem to be aimed at liberals who don’t use what conservatives consider tough enough language.

A much bigger risk, in practice, is that the targets of terrorism will try to achieve perfect security by eliminating every conceivable threat — a response that inevitably makes things worse, because it’s a big, complicated world, and even superpowers can’t set everything right. On 9/11 Donald Rumsfeld told his aides: “Sweep it up. Related and not,” and immediately suggested using the attack as an excuse to invade Iraq. The result was a disastrous war that actually empowered terrorists, and set the stage for the rise of ISIS.

And let’s be clear: this wasn’t just a matter of bad judgment. Yes, Virginia, people can and do exploit terrorism for political gain, including using it to justify what they imagine will be a splendid, politically beneficial little war.

Oh, and whatever people like Ted Cruz may imagine, ending our reluctance to kill innocent civilians wouldn’t remove the limits to American power. It would, however, do wonders for terrorist recruitment.

Finally, terrorism is just one of many dangers in the world, and shouldn’t be allowed to divert our attention from other issues. Sorry, conservatives: when President Obama describes climate change as the greatest threat we face, he’s exactly right. Terrorism can’t and won’t destroy our civilization, but global warming could and might.

So what can we say about how to respond to terrorism? Before the atrocities in Paris, the West’s general response involved a mix of policing, precaution, and military action. All involved difficult tradeoffs: surveillance versus privacy, protection versus freedom of movement, denying terrorists safe havens versus the costs and dangers of waging war abroad. And it was always obvious that sometimes a terrorist attack would slip through.

Paris may have changed that calculus a bit, especially when it comes to Europe’s handling of refugees, an agonizing issue that has now gotten even more fraught. And there will have to be a post-mortem on why such an elaborate plot wasn’t spotted. But do you remember all the pronouncements that 9/11 would change everything? Well, it didn’t — and neither will this atrocity.

Again, the goal of terrorists is to inspire terror, because that’s all they’re capable of. And the most important thing our societies can do in response is to refuse to give in to fear.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion

I could obviously pick apart many if the ignorant things he wrote - but I'll reserve my response to one glaring example of just how dimwitted he is. He claims terrorists can only inspire terror because that is all they are capable of - yet the very group that attacked Paris controls a sizeable portion of Syria, has its own economy, has conducted military offensives to take over a number of cities in Syria and Iraq, is orchestrating sophisticated recruiting and propoganda campaigns against many governments, etc. Seriously, can he be a bigger moron?
 
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Another? He hasn't had one yet so I assume this is just more crap.

So, you disagree with him, and you believe that ISIS is 'capable of destroying Western civilization'?

ISIS is powerless to destroy our civilization and forms of government; its only power is to instill overblown fear, and when people over-react to those fears, we can end up with some pretty bad decisionmaking
(Iraq = Perfect Example).
 
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I could obviously pick apart many if the ignorant things he wrote - but I'll reserve my response to one glaring example of just how dimwitted he is. He claims terrorists can only inspire terror because that is all they are capable of - yet the very group that attacked Paris controls a sizeable portion of Syria, has its own economy, has conducted military offensives to take over a number of cities in Syria and Iraq, is orchestrating sophisticated recruiting and propoganda campaigns against many governments, etc. Seriously, can he be a bigger moron?

But will ISIS-controlled Syria be capable of 'overrunning Western civilization'?

No. And they will never have that capability.
 
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But will ISIS-controlled Syria be capable of 'overrunning Western civilization'?

No. And they will never have that capability.

Six assassins started World War I.

No, I don't see them overrunning Western Civilization (any time soon), but they damn sure could cause Western Civilization to start fighting amongst ourselves.
 
So, you disagree with him, and you believe that ISIS is 'capable of destroying Western civilization'?

ISIS is powerless to destroy our civilization and forms of government; its only power is to instill overblown fear, and when people over-react to those fears, we can end up with some pretty bad decisionmaking
(Iraq = Perfect Example).

ISIS is capable of inflicting a great deal of damage. History teaches that a small group of brutal fantics can run roughshod over millions of people. You're dead wrong.
 
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Nah, the most important thing societies can do is destroy these effers.

Another good column by Paul today:

Like millions of people, I’ve been obsessively following the news from Paris, putting aside other things to focus on the horror. It’s the natural human reaction. But let’s be clear: it’s also the reaction the terrorists want. And that’s something not everyone seems to understand.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

Think, for a moment, about what France is and what it represents. It has its problems — what nation doesn’t? — but it’s a robust democracy with a deep well of popular legitimacy. Its defense budget is small compared with ours, but it nonetheless retains a powerful military, and has the resources to make that military much stronger if it chooses. (France’s economy is around 20 times the size of Syria’s.) France is not going to be conquered by ISIS, now or ever. Destroy Western civilization? Not a chance.

So what was Friday’s attack about? Killing random people in restaurants and at concerts is a strategy that reflects its perpetrators’ fundamental weakness. It isn’t going to establish a caliphate in Paris. What it can do, however, is inspire fear — which is why we call it terrorism, and shouldn’t dignify it with the name of war.

The point is not to minimize the horror. It is, instead, to emphasize that the biggest danger terrorism poses to our society comes not from the direct harm inflicted, but from the wrong-headed responses it can inspire. And it’s crucial to realize that there are multiple ways the response can go wrong.

It would certainly be a very bad thing if France or other democracies responded to terrorism with appeasement — if, for example, the French were to withdraw from the international effort against ISIS in the vain hope that jihadists would leave them alone. And I won’t say that there are no would-be appeasers out there; there are indeed some people determined to believe that Western imperialism is the root of all evil, and all would be well if we stopped meddling.

But real-world examples of mainstream politicians, let alone governments, knuckling under to terrorist demands are hard to find. Most accusations of appeasement in America seem to be aimed at liberals who don’t use what conservatives consider tough enough language.

A much bigger risk, in practice, is that the targets of terrorism will try to achieve perfect security by eliminating every conceivable threat — a response that inevitably makes things worse, because it’s a big, complicated world, and even superpowers can’t set everything right. On 9/11 Donald Rumsfeld told his aides: “Sweep it up. Related and not,” and immediately suggested using the attack as an excuse to invade Iraq. The result was a disastrous war that actually empowered terrorists, and set the stage for the rise of ISIS.

And let’s be clear: this wasn’t just a matter of bad judgment. Yes, Virginia, people can and do exploit terrorism for political gain, including using it to justify what they imagine will be a splendid, politically beneficial little war.

Oh, and whatever people like Ted Cruz may imagine, ending our reluctance to kill innocent civilians wouldn’t remove the limits to American power. It would, however, do wonders for terrorist recruitment.

Finally, terrorism is just one of many dangers in the world, and shouldn’t be allowed to divert our attention from other issues. Sorry, conservatives: when President Obama describes climate change as the greatest threat we face, he’s exactly right. Terrorism can’t and won’t destroy our civilization, but global warming could and might.

So what can we say about how to respond to terrorism? Before the atrocities in Paris, the West’s general response involved a mix of policing, precaution, and military action. All involved difficult tradeoffs: surveillance versus privacy, protection versus freedom of movement, denying terrorists safe havens versus the costs and dangers of waging war abroad. And it was always obvious that sometimes a terrorist attack would slip through.

Paris may have changed that calculus a bit, especially when it comes to Europe’s handling of refugees, an agonizing issue that has now gotten even more fraught. And there will have to be a post-mortem on why such an elaborate plot wasn’t spotted. But do you remember all the pronouncements that 9/11 would change everything? Well, it didn’t — and neither will this atrocity.

Again, the goal of terrorists is to inspire terror, because that’s all they’re capable of. And the most important thing our societies can do in response is to refuse to give in to fear.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion
 
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So, you disagree with him, and you believe that ISIS is 'capable of destroying Western civilization'?

ISIS is powerless to destroy our civilization and forms of government; its only power is to instill overblown fear, and when people over-react to those fears, we can end up with some pretty bad decisionmaking
(Iraq = Perfect Example).
I'd agree with him,if he had the balls to call out what is really going on here. Blowback, desperate attacks, from desperate people.
 
ISIS is capable of inflicting a great deal of damage. History teaches that a small group of brutal fantics can run roughshod over millions of people. You're dead wrong.

You mean like how the IRA completely 'destroyed' Great Britain in the 70s, 80s and 90s?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

What country is that now, that the IRA 'ran roughshod over millions of people'?

You rightwingers are woefully educated on history, here....I'd blame our public eduational system, but you don't like funding that anyway...
 
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You mean like how the IRA completely 'destroyed' Great Britain in the 70s, 80s and 90s?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

What country is that now, that the IRA 'ran roughshod over millions of people'?

You rightwingers are woefully educated on history, here....I'd blame our public eduational system, but you don't like funding that anyway...
He is wrong, but so are you. You are completely ignoring that this is our chickens coming home to roost. Any other country involved, especially the ones within striking distance will continue to see things like this.

It's not as if the 'western powers' are innocent here.
 
Weak. Very weak.

Translation: I cannot defend my point that "ISIS can overrun Western civilization", so I'll just bow out here.

The fact is that the IRA killed hundreds more people in Western countries via terrorist acts that ISIS probably ever will. They can wreak havoc in weak, Middle Eastern states, but their ability to coordinate significant attacks in the West is far less than what the over-reacting news media is portraying.

Are they still dangerous? Absolutely.
Do we need to continue to dismantle them and destroy them? Yep.

But do we need to run around like Chicken Little that 'the sky is falling' and they will be on Main Street America killing people and invoking Sharia Law? Not remotely close to happening.
 
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Translation: I cannot defend my point that "ISIS can overrun Western civilization", so I'll just bow out here. . . .

.

I never used those words. I guess it's a lot easier to win an argument if you lie about what your opponent said.
 
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Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing....It isn’t going to establish a caliphate in Paris. What it can do, however, is inspire fear — which is why we call it terrorism, and shouldn’t dignify it with the name of war.

Ok, thank you, Paul. You have put the ball on the tee for me and my crusade to get us to stop using the T word loosely.

Paul, Paris was not "terrorism". Isis is not trying to "terrorize" the west into policy or behavior changes. Isis really is trying to directly defeat the west, and indeed establish a world wide caliphate. This is, indeed, "war", not "terrorism". Hollande says so. The Pope says so. Wake up!
 
So, you disagree with him, and you believe that ISIS is 'capable of destroying Western civilization'?

ISIS is powerless to destroy our civilization and forms of government; its only power is to instill overblown fear, and when people over-react to those fears, we can end up with some pretty bad decisionmaking
(Iraq = Perfect Example).
I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody is concerned about the downfall of Western civilization. We're concerned about being able to continue to live civilized. This is a big deal and it's not regional, it's not contained as your IRA example falls short.

You respond to it and you may propagate it; you don't respond and you ignore the radical elements that are political and are goal oriented.
 
I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody is concerned about the downfall of Western civilization. We're concerned about being able to continue to live civilized. This is a big deal and it's not regional, it's not contained as your IRA example falls short.

You respond to it and you may propagate it; you don't respond and you ignore the radical elements that are political and are goal oriented.

Since when, during the 1970s-1990s, was the IRA 'contained'?

Terrorist groups have been bombing people and cities for over a century. Let's not give ISIS some special award of "Terrorist of the Century" just because they happen to be all over the 24/7 news streams now. They are a threat we do need to deal with, but they are hardly something that will impact our Western civilization or disrupt us from 'continuing to live civilized'.
 
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Some of the people who post here are f***ing insane, by Einstein's definition. They yell and scream about the 1% in this country, yet continually give validation to people like Krugman and Clinton.
Yes, my buddy Natural is extremely confused. He loves the state, yet its the state that keeps the 1% going.
 
Since when, during the 1970s-1990s, was the IRA 'contained'?

[/QUOT
When did the IRA bring down a Russian plane, kill/injure 400 in Paris, attacks in Yemen, Lybia, Egypt, Turkey, Lebanon, Belgium, Denmark, Saudi, and threaten D.C. Maybe contain doesn't mean to me what it does to you. I have a daughter in Germany and I'll be in Paris in May. It's not like it's just Syria.
 
So, you disagree with him, and you believe that ISIS is 'capable of destroying Western civilization'?

ISIS is powerless to destroy our civilization and forms of government; its only power is to instill overblown fear, and when people over-react to those fears, we can end up with some pretty bad decisionmaking
(Iraq = Perfect Example).

Do you not see that is clearly a straw man? Let me use an analogy to explain just how ignorant the premise of "they can't destroy western civilization" is. If ISIS claimed its goal was to take down all international flights - to destroy air travel entirely. Would we believe they can do it? Of course not. But does that make them any less of a threat to the safety of people who travel via aircraft? Of course not. Just because they can't destroy Western civilization doesn't mean intent and goal to do so isn't an absolute threat to all free counties they are targeting.
 
Do you not see that is clearly a straw man? Let me use an analogy to explain just how ignorant the premise of "they can't destroy western civilization" is. If ISIS claimed its goal was to take down all international flights - to destroy air travel entirely. Would we believe they can do it? Of course not. But does that make them any less of a threat to the safety of people who travel via aircraft? Of course not. Just because they can't destroy Western civilization doesn't mean intent and goal to do so isn't an absolute threat to all free counties they are targeting.

You DO understand that it was Jeb Bush's point I was referring to from the article, not Krugman's.

So, then, you are ADMITTING that Jeb (and most other Republican candidates) are creating a false 'Straw Man' narrative to politicize these attacks. Got it.
 
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You DO understand that it was Jeb Bush's point I was referring to from the article, not Krugman's.

So, then, you are ADMITTING that Jeb (and most other Republican candidates) are creating a false 'Straw Man' narrative to politicize these attacks. Got it.

Dude. You are totally missing the point. Try again.
 
Another good column by Paul today:

Like millions of people, I’ve been obsessively following the news from Paris, putting aside other things to focus on the horror. It’s the natural human reaction. But let’s be clear: it’s also the reaction the terrorists want. And that’s something not everyone seems to understand.

Take, for example, Jeb Bush’s declaration that “this is an organized attempt to destroy Western civilization.” No, it isn’t. It’s an organized attempt to sow panic, which isn’t at all the same thing. And remarks like that, which blur that distinction and make terrorists seem more powerful than they are, just help the jihadists’ cause.

Think, for a moment, about what France is and what it represents. It has its problems — what nation doesn’t? — but it’s a robust democracy with a deep well of popular legitimacy. Its defense budget is small compared with ours, but it nonetheless retains a powerful military, and has the resources to make that military much stronger if it chooses. (France’s economy is around 20 times the size of Syria’s.) France is not going to be conquered by ISIS, now or ever. Destroy Western civilization? Not a chance.

So what was Friday’s attack about? Killing random people in restaurants and at concerts is a strategy that reflects its perpetrators’ fundamental weakness. It isn’t going to establish a caliphate in Paris. What it can do, however, is inspire fear — which is why we call it terrorism, and shouldn’t dignify it with the name of war.

The point is not to minimize the horror. It is, instead, to emphasize that the biggest danger terrorism poses to our society comes not from the direct harm inflicted, but from the wrong-headed responses it can inspire. And it’s crucial to realize that there are multiple ways the response can go wrong.

It would certainly be a very bad thing if France or other democracies responded to terrorism with appeasement — if, for example, the French were to withdraw from the international effort against ISIS in the vain hope that jihadists would leave them alone. And I won’t say that there are no would-be appeasers out there; there are indeed some people determined to believe that Western imperialism is the root of all evil, and all would be well if we stopped meddling.

But real-world examples of mainstream politicians, let alone governments, knuckling under to terrorist demands are hard to find. Most accusations of appeasement in America seem to be aimed at liberals who don’t use what conservatives consider tough enough language.

A much bigger risk, in practice, is that the targets of terrorism will try to achieve perfect security by eliminating every conceivable threat — a response that inevitably makes things worse, because it’s a big, complicated world, and even superpowers can’t set everything right. On 9/11 Donald Rumsfeld told his aides: “Sweep it up. Related and not,” and immediately suggested using the attack as an excuse to invade Iraq. The result was a disastrous war that actually empowered terrorists, and set the stage for the rise of ISIS.

And let’s be clear: this wasn’t just a matter of bad judgment. Yes, Virginia, people can and do exploit terrorism for political gain, including using it to justify what they imagine will be a splendid, politically beneficial little war.

Oh, and whatever people like Ted Cruz may imagine, ending our reluctance to kill innocent civilians wouldn’t remove the limits to American power. It would, however, do wonders for terrorist recruitment.

Finally, terrorism is just one of many dangers in the world, and shouldn’t be allowed to divert our attention from other issues. Sorry, conservatives: when President Obama describes climate change as the greatest threat we face, he’s exactly right. Terrorism can’t and won’t destroy our civilization, but global warming could and might.

So what can we say about how to respond to terrorism? Before the atrocities in Paris, the West’s general response involved a mix of policing, precaution, and military action. All involved difficult tradeoffs: surveillance versus privacy, protection versus freedom of movement, denying terrorists safe havens versus the costs and dangers of waging war abroad. And it was always obvious that sometimes a terrorist attack would slip through.

Paris may have changed that calculus a bit, especially when it comes to Europe’s handling of refugees, an agonizing issue that has now gotten even more fraught. And there will have to be a post-mortem on why such an elaborate plot wasn’t spotted. But do you remember all the pronouncements that 9/11 would change everything? Well, it didn’t — and neither will this atrocity.

Again, the goal of terrorists is to inspire terror, because that’s all they’re capable of. And the most important thing our societies can do in response is to refuse to give in to fear.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/opinion/fearing-fear-itself.html?ref=opinion
They certainly do want to sow terror but to say they do not want to take down western civilization is to ignore what they say in plain language. This column is more proof we should never allow a liberal to fight a war
 
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Yet again, this toolbag reveals what a loon he is. Six assassins started World War I. We have a whole bunch of countries encroaching on each other in Syrian airspace. What happens when we shoot down a Russian jet or vice versa? What happens if we "accidentally" bomb a Russian troop position? What happens if ISIS gets their hands on a nuke?

This is an amazingly dangerous situation. In comparison, climate change is about as threatening to civilization as rap music is.
I admit that kids fighting in the back seat is both irritating and dangerous, but the car sliding on ice toward the cliff is more dangerous still. By far. Dad needs to focus most on the more dangerous problem. If he can do both, great. Only one side is pretending we aren't sliding toward the cliff. And by doing so, they have disqualified themselves from calling anyone else a "loon."
 
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ISIS is capable of inflicting a great deal of damage. History teaches that a small group of brutal fantics can run roughshod over millions of people. You're dead wrong.
Are you talking about the heads of corporations; capitalists? If so, I agree. Our military has been dancing to their tune for a long time now - and many millions have paid with their lives. But, hey, the profits are great.

What do you think we should do about it?
 
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Are you talking about the heads of corporations; capitalists? If so, I agree. Our military has been dancing to their tune for a long time now - and many millions have paid with their lives. But, hey, the profits are great.

What do you think we should do about it?

I could be. Good point. I'd start off by paying these contractors Home Depot prices. That might help.
 
Dude. You are totally missing the point. Try again.

No. You aren't reading what others are actually posting.

They may WANT to 'take down Western civilization', but they are a far cry from ever remotely coming close.
And I've never stated they do not pose risks to Western cities through acute terror attacks, nor should we 'ignore' them.

But 'terrorist' and 'insurgent' groups have existed throughout recorded history; most of the ones that were considered 'threats' 50 or 100 years ago have long since vanished into the archives of history. Let's not elevate ISIS into some magical prominence that they are any different than those others. They have terrorized an extremely minute fraction of Europe and of one European country's population with these attacks. Sensationalizing them serves only political, not practical purposes.
 
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I admit that kids fighting in the back seat is both irritating and dangerous, but the car sliding on ice toward the cliff is more dangerous still. By far. Dad needs to focus most on the more dangerous problem. If he can do both, great. Only one side is pretending we aren't sliding toward the cliff. And by doing so, they have disqualified themselves from calling anyone else a "loon."

Complete BS. Sliding toward a cliff would imply impending, instant death. Global warming represents something so gradual that we wouldn't even be able to detect it without technology.
 
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