Labas being talked down by Kirk n’ Bri?

General Tso

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Entitlement? Please provide examples.

And please spare us another round of mostly debunked QB decisions like JC/Stanzi, or JR/CJ, or Banks.

When KF and the fans disagree, it hardly means KF was wrong or played someone because of entitlement.
Ummm, debunked? Go on...
 

kceasthawk

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You know it’s funny that..and how people look at things so differently. I have some excitement for it to be Joey Labas but if it isn’t I definitely want it to be Petras!

Meaning I would hope he improved that much! Mostly I hope it’s Labas is just better.


I don’t get the fans love for Padilla, yes he’s way more mobile l. But he does not have any of the arm attributes with just as sketchy play making and errant throws!!
The Padilla thing has evolved basically like always with the backup. Many seem enthralled with him as, "anyone but SP'. I get that to some extent. My issue is that Padilla did in fact play for almost a third of the season including a couple of starts, and to my admittedly untrained eye, I saw little to thing he's an upgrade from Petras.
 
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Dec 31, 2014
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There is no QB competition. Any comments to this effect are a charade.

They will start and promote the player that will conservatively run the offense in the way they want. Being the best player or giving the team the best chance to win has has absolutely nothing to do with their decision making.

Signed,

01 Brad Banks, 08 Ricky Stanzi, & 14 CJ Beathard
 

Hawk_4shur

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I’ve never questioned that Kirk wants to win games or that he believes his decisions give the team the best chance to win. What I brought into question is his judgment. Specifically, does he feel comfortable enough—or entitled if you will—to make decisions without proper scrutiny or without surrounding himself with assistants comfortable with being honest with him in order to avoid groupthink? And, again, I’m genuinely asking.

To be clear, I am 100% saying I believe Kirk wants to win and does everything he believes is necessary to win. To think otherwise is silly, and we’ve seen fans assert that based off their “fat cat” theories, and they are all utterly stupid.

Ultimately, which I think you can make a case is an issue for Fran as well, has Kirk built a staff who will challenge his thinking, or has he hired a bunch of yes men? Granted, while there is a lot that undoubtedly goes into coaching dialogues and decisions—and I have little doubt substantive conversations among the coaches do occur regularly—I can’t help but wonder the extent of that, as I see evidence of a lot of groupthink within the Iowa football program.

That’s basically all I’m asking.
IDK how KF makes decisions, how he interacts with coaches or what goes into determining playing time. No one knows what the result would have been if he made a different decision.

What we see on Saturday is the end result, but really just a snippet of all the practice time, coach meetings, film study, etc. We might see a glimpse of talent in the #2 player and assume that he is "better" than the #1 - but maybe the #2 doesn't have some other qualities that might not be as evident.

If find it hard to believe that the assistant coaches at Iowa are "yes men". A football coach is a special breed of human - they confident, intense men that take testosterone filled teenagers and mold them into a team. The coach at Iowa have career choices and they are at Iowa - I don't think they are there so they can kiss the ring of the HC. It just doesn't make any sense to think that they would put so much hard work into coaching just to march along side KF.

Different methods can work - HF surrounded himself with future HCs. That led to tremendous success, but it also led to a lot of replacement coaches along the way - so a lot of change in the program.

KF seems to like stability. Consistency. Coaches that know what the other coaches are thinking. This has led to similar success similar to what HF enjoyed.

Groupthink can be a problem, or it can be a good thing - everyone on the same page.
 

kceasthawk

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IDK how KF makes decisions, how he interacts with coaches or what goes into determining playing time. No one knows what the result would have been if he made a different decision.

What we see on Saturday is the end result, but really just a snippet of all the practice time, coach meetings, film study, etc. We might see a glimpse of talent in the #2 player and assume that he is "better" than the #1 - but maybe the #2 doesn't have some other qualities that might not be as evident.

If find it hard to believe that the assistant coaches at Iowa are "yes men". A football coach is a special breed of human - they confident, intense men that take testosterone filled teenagers and mold them into a team. The coach at Iowa have career choices and they are at Iowa - I don't think they are there so they can kiss the ring of the HC. It just doesn't make any sense to think that they would put so much hard work into coaching just to march along side KF.

Different methods can work - HF surrounded himself with future HCs. That led to tremendous success, but it also led to a lot of replacement coaches along the way - so a lot of change in the program.

KF seems to like stability. Consistency. Coaches that know what the other coaches are thinking. This has led to similar success similar to what HF enjoyed.

Groupthink can be a problem, or it can be a good thing - everyone on the same page.
Well said Hawk4. More then one way to skin a cat so to speak. HF and KF are certainly different in many ways and quite a like in others. Both have made the Iowa Hawkeyes a consistent WINNING program thats generally respected, (by people who know football), and not taken lightly regardless of the opponent. There are MANY programs who would have enjoyed the consistent success that Iowa has earned in the last 40 some years, including quite a number in the BIG. Thats something to be thankful for and proud of in my book...
 
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IDK how KF makes decisions, how he interacts with coaches or what goes into determining playing time. No one knows what the result would have been if he made a different decision.

What we see on Saturday is the end result, but really just a snippet of all the practice time, coach meetings, film study, etc. We might see a glimpse of talent in the #2 player and assume that he is "better" than the #1 - but maybe the #2 doesn't have some other qualities that might not be as evident.

If find it hard to believe that the assistant coaches at Iowa are "yes men". A football coach is a special breed of human - they confident, intense men that take testosterone filled teenagers and mold them into a team. The coach at Iowa have career choices and they are at Iowa - I don't think they are there so they can kiss the ring of the HC. It just doesn't make any sense to think that they would put so much hard work into coaching just to march along side KF.

Different methods can work - HF surrounded himself with future HCs. That led to tremendous success, but it also led to a lot of replacement coaches along the way - so a lot of change in the program.

KF seems to like stability. Consistency. Coaches that know what the other coaches are thinking. This has led to similar success similar to what HF enjoyed.

Groupthink can be a problem, or it can be a good thing - everyone on the same page.

One thing all coaches are concerned with is getting fired. Coaches at Iowa know KF has a lifetime guarantee. If they go along with KF and don’t rock the boat they will have job security. More so than most programs around the country. So that would tend coaches at Iowa to being Yes Men.

Look how long our horrendous time management was an issue under KF. All the way through 2015. Something changed that year. But it did take 1.5 decades of yes men to get to that point.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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A head coach by definition is entitled to make final decisions. What kind of advice they get and from whom is also within their purview. That is how organizations work. You are free to disagree but questioning whether Kirk should be “entitled “ to make decisions is just plain silly.
I must have expressed that poorly. Of course the head coach has every right and authority to make whatever decision he believes is best. That’s why he’s the head boss. And Kirk’s track record speaks for itself, as he gets far more right than he ever does wrong.

What I was trying to say is sometimes when a head coach has been somewhere a long time, especially a coach as renowned as Kirk, it becomes easier to sort of rest on your laurels a bit and get stuck in a mode of constipated thinking. I think this happened with Joe Paterno and other legendary coaches toward the end of their tenure, and they eventually had to evolve a bit. In fairness, Kirk has quite a lot, as has (e.g) Nick Saban, which is why they both have enjoyed the longevity they’ve had.

What I’m ultimately bringing into question is how much groupthink goes into (e.g) appointing Brian Ferentz quarterback coach? I’m not questioning Kirk’s sincerity or saying that he is motivated by nepotism per se. I’m questioning how much scrutiny and diversity of thought is actually demonstrated in the process. When you’ve been a head coach somewhere for a long time and have no job security concerns whatsoever, it’s easy to see how far less scrutiny gets applied to decisions based on comfort, which is what I mean by “entitlement.”

Again, I don’t question Kirk’s sincerity or desire to be as competitive as possible. But I am bringing into question his judgment a little. It’s probably the politest way I can say that I think naming Brian quarterback coach is friggin nuts, especially with how bad quarterback play has been as of late. I just don’t get it.
 

Hawk_4shur

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One thing all coaches are concerned with is getting fired. Coaches at Iowa know KF has a lifetime guarantee. If they go along with KF and don’t rock the boat they will have job security. More so than most programs around the country. So that would tend coaches at Iowa to being Yes Men.

Look how long our horrendous time management was an issue under KF. All the way through 2015. Something changed that year. But it did take 1.5 decades of yes men to get to that point.
I disagree somewhat - I don't think D1 assistant coaches fear termination as much as they fear losing.

I'm not sure why fans jump to the conclusion that when there is a problem in the program that KF isn't trying to fix it. Or, that some assistant coach knows what to do but KF won't listen to him.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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IDK how KF makes decisions, how he interacts with coaches or what goes into determining playing time. No one knows what the result would have been if he made a different decision.

What we see on Saturday is the end result, but really just a snippet of all the practice time, coach meetings, film study, etc. We might see a glimpse of talent in the #2 player and assume that he is "better" than the #1 - but maybe the #2 doesn't have some other qualities that might not be as evident.

If find it hard to believe that the assistant coaches at Iowa are "yes men". A football coach is a special breed of human - they confident, intense men that take testosterone filled teenagers and mold them into a team. The coach at Iowa have career choices and they are at Iowa - I don't think they are there so they can kiss the ring of the HC. It just doesn't make any sense to think that they would put so much hard work into coaching just to march along side KF.

Different methods can work - HF surrounded himself with future HCs. That led to tremendous success, but it also led to a lot of replacement coaches along the way - so a lot of change in the program.

KF seems to like stability. Consistency. Coaches that know what the other coaches are thinking. This has led to similar success similar to what HF enjoyed.

Groupthink can be a problem, or it can be a good thing - everyone on the same page.
I think this is a very good analysis and defense. You’re absolutely right about the philosophical differences between Hayden and Kirk.

I’m reminded of something George Patton was credited for saying: “If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn’t thinking.”
 
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Hawk_4shur

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Again, I don’t question Kirk’s sincerity or desire to be as competitive as possible. But I am bringing into question his judgment a little. It’s probably the politest way I can say that I think naming Brian quarterback coach is friggin nuts, especially with how bad quarterback play has been as of late. I just don’t get it.
It's clearly not the way most would have gone.

But as I have stated here before, I'm not convinced that having a separate QB coach from the OC is a good idea in CF, unless the QB coach is an expert on mechanics or other individual tools. KOK wasn't that guy, so I honestly don't really know what his role was - maybe Asst OC - IDK. Maybe KF agrees with me and doesn't want the QB hearing to many voices.

So, I like combining the jobs.

However, I don't like BF getting the job. I think it was a good opportunity (for both the program and for BF) to reboot the position with someone new - an experienced DI OC. BF could move to a job at a smaller school and rebuild his resume.

Maybe KF thinks BF isn't the problem. Maybe KF got an earful from Mary. Maybe KF thinks he's only going to be here another tear or two and both can leave at the same time. IDK - I hope it works.
 

Hawk_4shur

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I think this is a very good analysis and defense. You’re absolutely right about the philosophical differences between Hayden and Kirk.

I’m reminded of something George Patton was credited for saying: “If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn’t thinking.”
Nice! I like that quote.

But there is a difference between thinking alike and acting alike. Maybe there is a ton of open discussion in the coaches meetings and when the decision is made, however it's made, they leave the room on the same page. They "buy-in".

I had a 40 year business career. The management group would get together, discuss strategies, make decisions and plan for the future. Then everyone would go back to their offices and do exactly whatever they were doing before, because it was easier than trying to create real change in people and organizations.

In other words, if we were a football team, we would have been 7-5 and gone to a minor bowl every year. 😑
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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Nice! I like that quote.

But there is a difference between thinking alike and acting alike. Maybe there is a ton of open discussion in the coaches meetings and when the decision is made, however it's made, they leave the room on the same page. They "buy-in".

I had a 40 year business career. The management group would get together, discuss strategies, make decisions and plan for the future. Then everyone would go back to their offices and do exactly whatever they were doing before, because it was easier than trying to create real change in people and organizations.

In other words, if we were a football team, we would have been 7-5 and gone to a minor bowl every year. 😑
Lol. That’s funny. Good post.
 
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WinOneThisCentury II

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I'm pretty sure KF was posting in the "Joey Throws" thread about how good Labas is.

Once KF announces his starter at the end of Spring ball...I truly expect Padilla will transfer. That leaves Labas as your backup. There should be considerable pressure on KF/BF to get Labas as many reps as possible this spring. You have to have him up to speed come fall.
 
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pocha444444

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Entitlement? Please provide examples.

And please spare us another round of mostly debunked QB decisions like JC/Stanzi, or JR/CJ, or Banks.

When KF and the fans disagree, it hardly means KF was wrong or played someone because of entitlement.
Lol...debunked
 

RomanHawk

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I’ve never questioned that Kirk wants to win games or that he believes his decisions give the team the best chance to win. What I brought into question is his judgment. Specifically, does he feel comfortable enough—or entitled if you will—to make decisions without proper scrutiny or without surrounding himself with assistants comfortable with being honest with him in order to avoid groupthink? And, again, I’m genuinely asking.

To be clear, I am 100% saying I believe Kirk wants to win and does everything he believes is necessary to win. To think otherwise is silly, and we’ve seen fans assert that based off their “fat cat” theories, and they are all utterly stupid.

Ultimately, which I think you can make a case is an issue for Fran as well, has Kirk built a staff who will challenge his thinking, or has he hired a bunch of yes men? Granted, while there is a lot that undoubtedly goes into coaching dialogues and decisions—and I have little doubt substantive conversations among theI think coaches do occur regularly—I can’t help but wonder the extent of that, as I see evidence of a lot of groupthink within the Iowa football program.

That’s basically all I’m asking.
I think you have hit the salient points and I will attempt to incapsulate them.

Historically, a questioner of KF decisions has been accused of saying he doesn't want to win. IMO that is ridiculous. It's always been a question of his decision-making ability, not his desire. And most were
willing to accept the bad (decisions)with the good (other aspects of the program).

But in recent years, a new factor has been added to the equation and that is what has really shifted the fan base. Leave KF out of the picture for a moment. If one of our opponents (let's say MSU) had a defense which was annually among the nation's best and an offense that was annually among the nation's worst and tried to solve the problem by naming his unqualified son as the OC, what would you say? And then when things got even worse, that son was named the QB coach, what would you say? Ridiculous if it happened to MSU, but outrageous if it happened to us? Ya, and although the desire to win is still there, is there a another and maybe even stronger motivation?

And the discussion of "yes men" is valid. Maybe the most visible indication is clock management. It's been ridiculously bad during his entire tenure. There have to be many or maybe all on the staff that are much less clueless. But has this been delegated to them? Or is there any evidence that their input has been sought or accepted? Or has it been clearly indicated to them that constructive criticism, in general, is unwelcome or worse.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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I think you have hit the salient points and I will attempt to incapsulate them.

Historically, a questioner of KF decisions has been accused of saying he doesn't want to win. IMO that is ridiculous. It's always been a question of his decision-making ability, not his desire. And most were
willing to accept the bad (decisions)with the good (other aspects of the program).

But in recent years, a new factor has been added to the equation and that is what has really shifted the fan base. Leave KF out of the picture for a moment. If one of our opponents (let's say MSU) had a defense which was annually among the nation's best and an offense that was annually among the nation's worst and tried to solve the problem by naming his unqualified son as the OC, what would you say? And then when things got even worse, that son was named the QB coach, what would you say? Ridiculous if it happened to MSU, but outrageous if it happened to us? Ya, and although the desire to win is still there, is there a another and maybe even stronger motivation?

And the discussion of "yes men" is valid. Maybe the most visible indication is clock management. It's been ridiculously bad during his entire tenure. There have to be many or maybe all on the staff that are much less clueless. But has this been delegated to them? Or is there any evidence that their input has been sought or accepted? Or has it been clearly indicated to them that constructive criticism, in general, is unwelcome or worse.
Thank you. Awesome post!
 
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grhawk

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….While Petras and Padilla built up?
Y
hearing kirk talk recently, seems Labas isnt nearly being hyped as he was in the fall and during bowl prep. Back then it was the most enthusiasm I’ve ever heard from Kirk on a qb, as well as gushing compliments from players.

Losing hope that he will be seriously given the chance to be starter.

Less sure now than months ago though. seems like the ferentz plan is to stick with what’s been done and that they are prepping media and fans for more of the same.
Why would you think that anyone other than Spencer Petras would be named the starter? Your fantasy is ridiculous! That has never happened at Iowa. Watch for transfers at the QB position to happen after spring practice is over.
 
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ghostOfHomer777

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PS: Since you’re so in to “debunking” things, please explain the difference between Amani Jones and say Bo Bower or Spencer Petras. 🤔
I don't know what you're getting at with regard to Amani Jones and Bo Bower, but how about this ...

Bo Bower started a whole season at LB in '14. If memory serves, that was also back when LeVar Woods was coaching OLBs alongside Jim Reid.

Bo Bower then got demoted in 2015 (that was when Woods moved over to coaching TEs - and Jim had full reign of the LBs) - with Sean Fisher taking over the WILL LB spot.

Then, in '16, I believe that Jim left for Boston College ... so Wallace took over coaching the LBs. Bo Bower won the WILL LB spot.

As memory serves, Bower developed into quite a solid LB for the Hawks. At Iowa's pro-day, Bower put up the fastest 40 time out of Iowa's LBs.

So the difference between Amani and Bo ... Amani was the better power-lifter ... but Bo was faster. Furthermore, Bo had more positional experience. Besides, Jones was a TR FR in 2016 ... whereas Bo Bower was a RS JR.

Amani, Bo, and Spencer each are/were great Hawks who put team first and each faced adversity during their career.

Credit to Amani, the coaches liked the young man so much - they created an edge-defender niche in our D so that they could find more ways of getting him on the field.

Anyhow, as it relates to things football ... it's hard to say what you're trying to get at.
 
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ghostOfHomer777

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….While Petras and Padilla built up?

hearing kirk talk recently, seems Labas isnt nearly being hyped as he was in the fall and during bowl prep. Back then it was the most enthusiasm I’ve ever heard from Kirk on a qb, as well as gushing compliments from players.

Losing hope that he will be seriously given the chance to be starter.

Less sure now than months ago though. seems like the ferentz plan is to stick with what’s been done and that they are prepping media and fans for more of the same.

At the same time Ferentz "talked up Labas" last year ... he was also joking around stating that he probably shouldn't be saying positive things about the backup QB.

Anyhow, Ferentz likely was praising Labas because he wanted to make sure that Labas had some confidence heading into a 3-way competition as the program turns the corner heading toward the '22 season.

However, now that it IS a legitimate 3-way competition ... Ferentz isn't about to play favorites. Now the guys are "all equal" in his eyes ... and it's about how the guys execute and grow their respective games.

In any of the latest interviews, Ferentz simply stated matter-of-fact that he likes BOTH Petras and Padilla ... that BOTH guys have won games for the Hawks ... and that experience gained by live-game action certainly gives those guys a bit of a head start on Labas.

Frankly, all that was stated was simply just reiterating the state of affairs. That didn't seem to be tipping any hands in favor of any player over another. If anything, it helps supply context if Labas (at this point) seems a little behind the other two. You have to remember that Labas was wowing the coaches before with his play when he was running the scout team. Thus, he still has had very little experience learn OUR O ... so he still has a long ways to go!

Anyhow, with how I read things ... it genuinely sounds like the coaches like all three guys. There isn't any talking up or down guys ... maybe just reflecting the obvious ... that two guys are more experienced than the third.

If you think about it ... framing things that way will do Labas more good when fans see him during the spring game. When he seems far less polished than the other two ... fans will be reminded that the other 2 are more experienced running our O. By framing things, it takes off some of the UNDUE PRESSURE on Labas. It also places the correct message to Labas ... that his job is now to get down the O and do his best to compete for the top QB spot. A guy in that situation has to focus on the "little picture" ... to incrementally improve through each and every step along the way. That's hopefully what Alex and Spencer are doing too ... and I assume they are.
 

hawkjt

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As usual ghost is the voice of reason in debates on Iowa football.
The whole thread is "much ado bout nothing".
This discussion will be somewhat appropriate after spring practice is done.
I remember being at spring scrimmage when Rudock,CJ, and the juco guy were vying for QB.
They all looked pretty good but my favorite was CJ.
Eventually I was proven right.
Let's give the eyeball test next month...then debate.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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I don't know what you're getting at with regard to Amani Jones and Bo Bower, but how about this ...

Bo Bower started a whole season at LB in '14. If memory serves, that was also back when LeVar Woods was coaching OLBs alongside Jim Reid.

Bo Bower then got demoted in 2015 (that was when Woods moved over to coaching TEs - and Jim had full reign of the LBs) - with Sean Fisher taking over the WILL LB spot.

Then, in '16, I believe that Jim left for Boston College ... so Wallace took over coaching the LBs. Bo Bower won the WILL LB spot.

As memory serves, Bower developed into quite a solid LB for the Hawks. At Iowa's pro-day, Bower put up the fastest 40 time out of Iowa's LBs.

So the difference between Amani and Bo ... Amani was the better power-lifter ... but Bo was faster. Furthermore, Bo had more positional experience. Besides, Jones was a TR FR in 2016 ... whereas Bo Bower was a RS JR.

Amani, Bo, and Spencer each are/were great Hawks who put team first and each faced adversity during their career.

Credit to Amani, the coaches liked the young man so much - they created an edge-defender niche in our D so that they could find more ways of getting him on the field.

Anyhow, as it relates to things football ... it's hard to say what you're trying to get at.
My point was Kirk has shown a willingness to bench someone when necessary.
 
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BlackNGoldBleeder

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I am with you, I hope he improves as I to think he is going to be the day one started. I don't think Petras is a great QB, but I don't think he is as bad as a lot of people think. The OL was not good last year and we did not have much of a running game to help. Petras is not a QB that can consistently be called upon to march the team down the field with his arm alone, he is going to need at least an average running game behind him, same as Pedilla. I think if the OL improves both Petras and Padilla are salvageable QB's. I don't care who takes the snaps as long as they offense improves, but that improvement needs to start along the front line. Then I see we got this QB coach from Wisconsin, which baffles me since I don't remember Wisconsin having any better QB play then Iowa has. LOL
I agree with pretty much all of this. However, I will say the Kentucky bowl game was a lot different than the regular season. IMO Brian called a fabulous game, the OL did awesome in pass protection, and both running backs were solid. Petras still stunk up the joint.

I think at this point we have to hope something clicks for Petras during the offseason. I do believe the majority of his problem is the mental aspect of the game, as to me it seems like he has all the tools to make every throw. And obviously there is something Kirk sees in practice that he likes well enough to stick with him, but there is no doubt that Petras has to get a lot better.
 

twindman

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I like Roman's last post above. I was going to post this which is somewhat related. I think Kirk and Fran both just feel comfortable with their sons. They think they will come along and improve. They also seem to vastly overlook the deficiencies of their sons. Easy to do when you are a proud papa. Doesn't mean there is a problem with this tho.
 

Hawk_4shur

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And the discussion of "yes men" is valid. Maybe the most visible indication is clock management. It's been ridiculously bad during his entire tenure. There have to be many or maybe all on the staff that are much less clueless. But has this been delegated to them? Or is there any evidence that their input has been sought or accepted? Or has it been clearly indicated to them that constructive criticism, in general, is unwelcome or worse.
First of all, I don't get the connection between poor clock management and assistant coaches being "yes men". I really don't.

Secondly, are your referring to intentional time management issues that you disagree with, like say, the 2009 OSU game when KF decided to let the clock run out? Or, the 2010 Wisconsin game when the Hawks didn't use a time out at a critical moment and it probably cost them a chance to win? Obviously both are more than a decade ago. What are some recent examples?

There have been examples of both - but the former is a strategy, the latter is a screw-up.
 
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I think you have hit the salient points and I will attempt to incapsulate them.

Historically, a questioner of KF decisions has been accused of saying he doesn't want to win. IMO that is ridiculous. It's always been a question of his decision-making ability, not his desire. And most were
willing to accept the bad (decisions)with the good (other aspects of the program).

But in recent years, a new factor has been added to the equation and that is what has really shifted the fan base. Leave KF out of the picture for a moment. If one of our opponents (let's say MSU) had a defense which was annually among the nation's best and an offense that was annually among the nation's worst and tried to solve the problem by naming his unqualified son as the OC, what would you say? And then when things got even worse, that son was named the QB coach, what would you say? Ridiculous if it happened to MSU, but outrageous if it happened to us? Ya, and although the desire to win is still there, is there a another and maybe even stronger motivation?

And the discussion of "yes men" is valid. Maybe the most visible indication is clock management. It's been ridiculously bad during his entire tenure. There have to be many or maybe all on the staff that are much less clueless. But has this been delegated to them? Or is there any evidence that their input has been sought or accepted? Or has it been clearly indicated to them that constructive criticism, in general, is unwelcome or worse.
What's as scary as the groupthink among coaches is the number of yes-men on these boards and the groupthink here, the same people who call coaches "legendary" and act like questioning their policies and practices is somehow verboten, the same kind of people who worship heroes and autocrats and gobble up propaganda as fact and dismiss anything that contradicts their hardened, blinkered opinions as "fake news".

I had Stanzi as a student his junior year. What impressed me about him was that he was unafraid of making mistakes. Laughed them off, actually. Very chill guy, hilarious, but right under that, extremely intense. He worked hard. He was the same on the field. And the coaches took the good with the bad. He had so much more upside, so much more moxie, so much more creativity, than the other options. Some fans bashed him and called him "pick six ricky" or whatever. He had to work through his mistakes, but at least he was given the opportunity to do so, rather than just be rewarded for not trying and following every last command from on high.

Stanzi helped recruit Labas. Both from Cleveland. Both similarly athletic. Both often put their HS teams on their shoulders and willed them to win. Both inspired everyone around them. Both seem absolutely unafraid to make mistakes.

Let's hope the coaches have learned something from Pick Six Ricky, because from what I've read, Stanzi sees a lot of himself in Labas.

No risk. No reward.

What is most damning to me is coaches themselves sticking to their guns and refusing to admit mistakes. Like the Milgram experiment - you keep doubling down and following orders (or your own failed strategy). If they change QBs, that means they were wrong in the past, and people just rarely want to admit they were wrong. I'm tired of "that's football" abdication of responsibility.

Who on the staff has the spine and integrity to look truth in the face, admit mistakes, change course, and empower their best players to play ball and win games?
 

Frosty7130

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First of all, I don't get the connection between poor clock management and assistant coaches being "yes men". I really don't.

Secondly, are your referring to intentional time management issues that you disagree with, like say, the 2009 OSU game when KF decided to let the clock run out? Or, the 2010 Wisconsin game when the Hawks didn't use a time out at a critical moment and it probably cost them a chance to win? Obviously both are more than a decade ago. What are some recent examples?

There have been examples of both - but the former is a strategy, the latter is a screw-up.
Not to mention KF has publicly said he regrets the first one and would do it differently today.

BUT

Most fans only think about the decisions themselves, and not the events leading up to them. At that point in the game, Vandenberg was 20/31 for 233 yards, 2 TD, and 2 INT. One of those interceptions already came in an end of half situation with Iowa on OSU's side of the field, and Vandenberg could have just as easily had 1-2 more INT's (the miracle to Moeaki where 2 OSU DBs dropped the ball into his arms comes to mind).

Iowa would've had to go 67 yards with a freshman at OSU who was throwing dangerous passes all night to win in regulation. Any coach in their right might would have been hesitant about that decision.
 

OutbackBowl2017

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I'm not sure why fans jump to the conclusion that when there is a problem in the program that KF isn't trying to fix it. Or, that some assistant coach knows what to do but KF won't listen to him.
Then you’ve never worked in a family run business and that’s what Iowa football has become. They are going to do things their way and you aren’t going to change them. You have to create a way to make them think they came up with the idea and say that’s a great idea to do it that way when they come up with the idea you planted in their heads. I’ve loved it far too many times in the business world and go home at night after work for a good laugh when the family finally sees the light. Damn their smart is what I always tell the Mrs. (no pics!!)
 

OutbackBowl2017

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Not to mention KF has publicly said he regrets the first one and would do it differently today.

BUT

Most fans only think about the decisions themselves, and not the events leading up to them. At that point in the game, Vandenberg was 20/31 for 233 yards, 2 TD, and 2 INT. One of those interceptions already came in an end of half situation with Iowa on OSU's side of the field, and Vandenberg could have just as easily had 1-2 more INT's (the miracle to Moeaki where 2 OSU DBs dropped the ball into his arms comes to mind).

Iowa would've had to go 67 yards with a freshman at OSU who was throwing dangerous passes all night to win in regulation. Any coach in their right might would have been hesitant about that decision.
I was at that tOSU game, their fans were sure Iowa was going to win with all the momentum on their side with that stop to get the ball back at Iowa’s 26 yard line. I just shook my head when when KF let the clock run down. Their fans couldn’t believe it. They asked what is your coach doing? I said playing Tressel ball. You play to win on the road in that situation with seniors on your squad that came to Iowa to play in the Rose Bowl - Richardson and Moeaki come to mind as they said that during their commitment at the Army All American High School Game. Plus, they had luck on their side with how the game was going - Moeaki catch after the two tOSU players collided and it fell to him, interception returned for a td due to penalty, the kick off return you could hear a pin drop in the stadium, and JVB td throws. The only negative was Trey Stross dropping a td in the endzone and a missed field goal. Damn, I wanted that W.
 

OutbackBowl2017

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This is actually really good, no further mention needed!
Petras isn’t even a service Jack Ruddock and we should of seen what QB3 (Hogan @ NW) could of done if Kirk is serious about having three or four qb’s on the roster. If you aren’t going to give them a chance to play, why have three or four on the roster?

Regarding JR vs CJB, Kirk was forced to make the change due to Casey Beathard saying CJB would probably leave Iowa if he wasn’t going to start playing his son. Kirk 1.0 gets old playing not to lose ballgames instead of playing to win them. His let’s score 10 to 17 points and rely on the defense week in and week out gets really old.

And here’s the tweet about the CJB’s Dad forcing KF’s hand…
 

Frosty7130

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I was at that tOSU game, their fans were sure Iowa was going to win with all the momentum on their side with that stop to get the ball back at Iowa’s 26 yard line. I just shook my head when when KF let the clock run down. Their fans couldn’t believe it. They asked what is your coach doing? I said playing Tressel ball. You play to win on the road in that situation with seniors on your squad that came to Iowa to play in the Rose Bowl - Richardson and Moeaki come to mind as they said that during their commitment at the Army All American High School Game. Plus, they had luck on their side with how the game was going - Moeaki catch after the two tOSU players collided and it fell to him, interception returned for a td due to penalty, the kick off return you could hear a pin drop in the stadium, and JVB td throws. The only negative was Trey Stross dropping a td in the endzone and a missed field goal. Damn, I wanted that W.
You can't count on luck to win a game.

Again, you're looking at that game with hindsight, and not how it was going in the moment.
 

Frosty7130

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Petras isn’t even a service Jack Ruddock and we should of seen what QB3 (Hogan @ NW) could of done if Kirk is serious about having three or four qb’s on the roster. If you aren’t going to give them a chance to play, why have three or four on the roster?

Regarding JR vs CJB, Kirk was forced to make the change due to Casey Beathard saying CJB would probably leave Iowa if he wasn’t going to start playing his son. Kirk 1.0 gets old playing not to lose ballgames instead of playing to win them. His let’s score 10 to 17 points and rely on the defense week in and week out gets really old.

And here’s the tweet about the CJB’s Dad forcing KF’s hand…
KF did not start CJB due to Casey saying that. Not only is it ridiculous, it completely contradicts the idea that he's some stubborn stick in the mud that doesn't listen to anyone else regardless of results. Think about it. He would have ignored the locker room shift (or the fact that CJ played the majority of the Gator Bowl), but would cower to one player's father? It doesn't make any sense.
 

BonzoFury

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Nice! I like that quote.

But there is a difference between thinking alike and acting alike. Maybe there is a ton of open discussion in the coaches meetings and when the decision is made, however it's made, they leave the room on the same page. They "buy-in".

I had a 40 year business career. The management group would get together, discuss strategies, make decisions and plan for the future. Then everyone would go back to their offices and do exactly whatever they were doing before, because it was easier than trying to create real change in people and organizations.

In other words, if we were a football team, we would have been 7-5 and gone to a minor bowl every year. 😑
Had a Director like this once. He'd ask "what do you think about?..." both 1-1 and in group meetings. After you shared your thoughts or ideas he'd just go right into "OK, here's what I think we're going to do" without any recognition of your input. It got to a point where people would just say "I dunno...what do you think?" rather than even attempt.
 
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I disagree somewhat - I don't think D1 assistant coaches fear termination as much as they fear losing.

I'm not sure why fans jump to the conclusion that when there is a problem in the program that KF isn't trying to fix it. Or, that some assistant coach knows what to do but KF won't listen to him.

Why didn’t any assistant coach scream at KF to call a time out when Minnesota was lined up for an onside kick and we were set up as a standard return up in Minneapolis? 2010? 2011?

100% yes men that day. That’s just one example.
 
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cmhawks99

HR Heisman
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There is no QB competition. Any comments to this effect are a charade.

They will start and promote the player that will conservatively run the offense in the way they want. Being the best player or giving the team the best chance to win has has absolutely nothing to do with their decision making.

Signed,

01 Brad Banks, 08 Ricky Stanzi, & 14 CJ Beathard

Two of those quarterbacks admitted they didn’t take things seriously enough and Banks, even said he wasn’t ready his first year. So that just kind of shows you, just like to be argumentative it’s been said probably 4000 times on this very board, you’re just dumb, sorry dude!
 

OutbackBowl2017

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KF did not start CJB due to Casey saying that. Not only is it ridiculous, it completely contradicts the idea that he's some stubborn stick in the mud that doesn't listen to anyone else regardless of results. Think about it. He would have ignored the locker room shift (or the fact that CJ played the majority of the Gator Bowl), but would cower to one player's father? It doesn't make any sense.
Why do you think CJB got the majority of minutes in the Gator Bowl? And if you don’t think that played into KF’s decision to change to CJB then I don’t know what else to say. CJB and Casey going public forced KF’s hand to either play him or he was going to leave. Simple as that.
 

cmhawks99

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Why didn’t any assistant coach scream at KF to call a time out when Minnesota was lined up for an onside kick and we were set up as a standard return up in Minneapolis?

100% yes men that day. That’s just one example.

And yet we won all those games, weird? How do you equate for that…
 
Dec 31, 2014
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And yet we won all those games, weird? How do you equate for that…

This is why I can’t take you seriously. Shill



Kirk Ferentz HIMSELF after one of those games said “you know, i probably should have called timeout there, and that’s on me.”

My contention is, why didn’t any of the staff help him out there? All yes men. Bystanders.
 

jonesy5960

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I’m trying to be cautiously optimistic that either Petras will have improved leaps and bounds by next fall or that Labas will get an honest look, but I have my doubts. Iowa has a lot of talent on the roster and is ready to win now. I think a lot of Iowa fans believe that, which is why frustration boils over when it seems Kirk is just being stubborn and arrogant when sticking with Petras or choosing his son to take over coaching the quarterbacks.

I love Kirk and appreciate what he’s done with the program during his tenure, but it’s hard not to think some of his personnel decisions reek of entitlement and are contrary to the best interests of competing at the highest possible level.
Is it stubbornness or maybe Labas just isn't as good right now as the two in front of him? Everyone was clamoring last year for Padilla claiming that he had to be better than Petras but in the end the results weren't all that different. I'd like to believe that Labas can perform at a higher level than whatever we saw last year but we've seen nothing so far for us to come to any conclusion on what to expect.
 

BBHawk

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Lol. A’ight.

We’ll just break it down to this: Bo Bower, Amani Jones, and Spencer Petras have all had really bad performances—consistently at that. Why is it—of those three—Amani Jones gets pulled after a bad first half of football, never to see significant playing time again, while guys like Bo Bower and Spencer Petras made an art of f#cking up a two-car funeral and continued to see the field? I’m genuinely asking.

And just so I’m clear, are you saying it was not obvious that Stanzi was light years ahead of JC, or that CJB was better than Rudolph, or that Kirk doesn’t feel entitled to do whatever he wants without regard to what’s best for the team, which includes promoting his unqualified son to OC and now making him QB coach? Again, I’m genuinely asking. And for no other reason than the fun of message board bantering. In other words, it’s cool if we have different thoughts and/or opinions. 😁

Furthermore, I think it’s possible to like and respect Coach Ferentz and the overall job he has done at Iowa while still bringing certain things into question. I know there are certain PMSing 16-year-olds, like FIDM, who can’t handle it without completely losing his or her poop and going full-fledged message board stalker, but I have every faith you are mature enough to handle the questions I raise. Regardless of your white-knighting status (which is a joke btw). 😁
Amani was the smallest LBer on scholarship next to Mends. Was he faster than the others? Stronger? Seems like he just got outplayed. He stayed all 4 years (didn’t redshirt) so he had opportunities.
And poking fun at a kid who got a shot in the league (Bower) after being a walkon at Iowa doesn't speak well for your ability to spot talent. They don't hand out NFL contracts based on bias.
 
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