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Looks like winning a Team Title just became much harder

What I said was "It is possible that Foca could beat Dean at 184, but I'm not convinced." I'm not a Max Dean fan, for non-wrestling reasons. And I'm not a "supposed" Cornell fan: I've seen about every match that any Cornell wrestler has competed in for the past 8-10 years, including those of greyshirts like Foca. I had hoped that this board would appreciate the insight that a fan of another team might bring. I guess not.
You have a Cornell shirt right? You watch all cornell matches. So what are you? Like staying in a holiday in!!! Insight is always welcomed but telling people that have some knowledge of situations and disregarding it going the opposite isn’t the best idea. Just a heads up. Dean was getting beat in the Cornell room a lot and he may not have been a starter if he stayed. Again that’s a fact.
 
Foca was beating him. So was Darmstadt and him and Lowe are neck and neck! Ramirez is great at 165. Might aa this year!!
 
Didn't he go 57kg (125.x lbs) this year in freestyle?
I believe the UWW ranking tourneys were plus 2 kg's. I'm not sure the last time he made scratch 57. Besides trials this year at 61 kg, when did he compete at nationals or trials last? That may be when.
 
What I said was "It is possible that Foca could beat Dean at 184, but I'm not convinced." I'm not a Max Dean fan, for non-wrestling reasons. And I'm not a "supposed" Cornell fan: I've seen about every match that any Cornell wrestler has competed in for the past 8-10 years, including those of greyshirts like Foca. I had hoped that this board would appreciate the insight that a fan of another team might bring. I guess not.
I appreciate your take....I guess some guys (including myself) have PTSD from being in action so long on these boards..... but hang tight brutha, there's some decent wrestling talk around here too. ;)
 
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What I said was "It is possible that Foca could beat Dean at 184, but I'm not convinced." I'm not a Max Dean fan, for non-wrestling reasons. And I'm not a "supposed" Cornell fan: I've seen about every match that any Cornell wrestler has competed in for the past 8-10 years, including those of greyshirts like Foca. I had hoped that this board would appreciate the insight that a fan of another team might bring. I guess not.
We are all wrestling fans, you have to understand the amount of BS from trolls that we have sift through to find fans from other teams that legitimately just want to talk wrestling and have the knowledge to do so.
 
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if these things all do pan out for PSU...Its time we coach our line up to beat the PSU stall game...I mean exactly HOW MANY takedowns did PSU champs actually score on us in regulation time?? and how many unanswered shots did we take ...that seriously wore us down and left us vulnerable in OT ?? we were out coached in those final matches...we beat the in Big Tens and Dual meets but when it was all on the line...we didn't game plan as well as we should have...and i admit i am a HUGE fan of our coaches!!! i also think that Suriano will have have a HARD TIME making 125 and keeping it for the season...and when he cuts weight he looses his 3rd period gas tank...and we will exploit that. Just some observations from a far...I honestly feel we did more to lose those Finals matches than PSU did to win them.
Yea, that’s our style- stalling. Yea, right.
 
Apparently, Mineo is reporting Suriano to PSU. Talk about a team willing to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to win.

With Suriano at 125, Iowa will be very hard pressed to win it all. I think Spencer still takes him out, but he is a very likely Finalist and almost assuredly top 4. That is a LOT of points they didn't get last year at 125, and would have been very close to covering the 15.5 difference last season.

Here is the side by side:

Iowa-----------------------------------PSU
Spencer-------------------------------Suriano
DeSanto------------------------------RBY
Eierman------------------------------ Lee
Murin----------------------------------Bartlett
Young----------------------------------Lee
Marinelli-------------------------------Facundo
Kemerer-------------------------------Starocci
Brands---------------------------------Brooks
Warner---------------------------------Dean
Cass-------------------------------------Kerkvliet

The past 2 seasons, Iowa benefitted substantially from transfers(DeSanto, Lugo and Eierman). Now, if this turns out to be true, PSU will have Suriano, Dean and Kerkvliet(granted he never wrestled for anyone else, just said he was going to for about 37 different schools).
Mineo is a POS
 
I'll believe Suriano is wrestling college when I see him on the mat. If he does, I have no doubt it will be for Penn State (against all odds). It's the ultimate mercenary move, literally coming in for just the second half of the season but:

1. Who would say no to Nick Suriano joining there team? Not many.

2. Who would say no to wrestling for Cael Sanderson and Penn State? Again, not many.
 
Why is he leaving Rutgers? Thought he was a Jersey guy through and through and loved it there?
 
People PSU needs more then Suriano to beat Iowa. Iowa will out place them at 25, 49, 57, 65, 97, & 285. They may also out place them at 41 & 74. If Iowa doesn’t at those weights it will be very close. PSU will out place Iowa at 33, & 84. Iowa also has more bonus point scorers at 25,33,41,65,74,& 285. PSU guys don’t score allot of bonus and if they do it’s more in the MD range and Iowa gets more TF and Pins. It’s gonna be close. It’s gonna be fun, but I’m not worried!
 
This may all be true, but you forgot to CAPITALIZE random WORDS in your ARGUMENT to make it even more VALID.
THANK you FOR your RANDOM, YET INVALUABLE CONTRIBUTION TO THIS TOPIC. I WILL STRIVE TO KEEP you IN MIND WHEN I CAPITALIZE WORDS IN THE FUTURE!
 
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People PSU needs more then Suriano to beat Iowa. Iowa will out place them at 25, 49, 57, 65, 97, & 285. They may also out place them at 41 & 74. If Iowa doesn’t at those weights it will be very close. PSU will out place Iowa at 33, & 84. Iowa also has more bonus point scorers at 25,33,41,65,74,& 285. PSU guys don’t score allot of bonus and if they do it’s more in the MD range and Iowa gets more TF and Pins. It’s gonna be close. It’s gonna be fun, but I’m not worried!
Your lineup is incredibly strong, with a good number in their 5th and 6th year.
 
A one seed getting second is 100% an underperformance. It has just as big of an impact on the team score as a 12 seed going 0-2.

And I completely agree about Marinelli. I’m not making any judgement about why there was an underperformance or trying to say it is because of bad coaching or anything like that. It is just a fact it is an underperformance, not a judgement. Did they score as many points as expected? No. Therefore it is an underperformance.
How about this then:

125: 1 seed garners 20 if holds pat. Lee scored 24.5 So, that is +4.5
133: 4 seed garners 12.5. DeSanto scored 19.5. So, that is +7
141: 1 seed garners 20. Eierman scored 21.5. So, that is +1.5
149: 12 seed garners 2. Murin scored 2. Even
157: 5 seed garners 10. Young scored 8.5. So, that is -1.5
165: 1 seed garners 20. Marinelli scored 4. So, that is -16
174: 1 seed garners 20. Kemerer scored 20. Even
184: 12 seed garners 2. Brands scored 1. So, that is -1
197: 5 seed garners 10. Warner scored 12.5. So, that is +2.5
285: 5 seed garners 10. Cass scored 16.5. So, that is +6.5

So, 7 of the 10 wrestlers scored as much or more than what simply holding seed scores. Those 7 outscored their seed by 22 points, collectively.

Of, the other 3, Young missed by 1.5 points and Brands by 1. So, nearly ALL of the "underperformance" points were due to Marinelli being injured. Calling it a "team underperformance" due to 1 guy being injured is disingenuous at best...
 
People PSU needs more then Suriano to beat Iowa. Iowa will out place them at 25, 49, 57, 65, 97, & 285. They may also out place them at 41 & 74. If Iowa doesn’t at those weights it will be very close. PSU will out place Iowa at 33, & 84. Iowa also has more bonus point scorers at 25,33,41,65,74,& 285. PSU guys don’t score allot of bonus and if they do it’s more in the MD range and Iowa gets more TF and Pins. It’s gonna be close. It’s gonna be fun, but I’m not worried!
49, 97 and HWT could be more like coin flips to be honest. But in general I agree we should still be considered favorites.

Remember Berge also injury defaulted last year as did Bull. Although its unlikely Berge would have scored as many pts as bull, its worth noting.
 
How about this then:

125: 1 seed garners 20 if holds pat. Lee scored 24.5 So, that is +4.5
133: 4 seed garners 12.5. DeSanto scored 19.5. So, that is +7
141: 1 seed garners 20. Eierman scored 21.5. So, that is +1.5
149: 12 seed garners 2. Murin scored 2. Even
157: 5 seed garners 10. Young scored 8.5. So, that is -1.5
165: 1 seed garners 20. Marinelli scored 4. So, that is -16
174: 1 seed garners 20. Kemerer scored 20. Even
184: 12 seed garners 2. Brands scored 1. So, that is -1
197: 5 seed garners 10. Warner scored 12.5. So, that is +2.5
285: 5 seed garners 10. Cass scored 16.5. So, that is +6.5

So, 7 of the 10 wrestlers scored as much or more than what simply holding seed scores. Those 7 outscored their seed by 22 points, collectively.

Of, the other 3, Young missed by 1.5 points and Brands by 1. So, nearly ALL of the "underperformance" points were due to Marinelli being injured. Calling it a "team underperformance" due to 1 guy being injured is disingenuous at best...
How can you leave bonus points out of baseline expectations, and say I’m being disingenuous?

This isn’t all that hard. Iowa’s reasonable expectation was at least 150 heading into Nattys. They scored well under that, so it was an underperformance. Not sure why you need to read into it any more than that. Was that in very large part due to Marinelli’s injury - 100%, but not sure what that matters.
 
How about this then:

125: 1 seed garners 20 if holds pat. Lee scored 24.5 So, that is +4.5
133: 4 seed garners 12.5. DeSanto scored 19.5. So, that is +7
141: 1 seed garners 20. Eierman scored 21.5. So, that is +1.5
149: 12 seed garners 2. Murin scored 2. Even
157: 5 seed garners 10. Young scored 8.5. So, that is -1.5
165: 1 seed garners 20. Marinelli scored 4. So, that is -16
174: 1 seed garners 20. Kemerer scored 20. Even
184: 12 seed garners 2. Brands scored 1. So, that is -1
197: 5 seed garners 10. Warner scored 12.5. So, that is +2.5
285: 5 seed garners 10. Cass scored 16.5. So, that is +6.5

So, 7 of the 10 wrestlers scored as much or more than what simply holding seed scores. Those 7 outscored their seed by 22 points, collectively.

Of, the other 3, Young missed by 1.5 points and Brands by 1. So, nearly ALL of the "underperformance" points were due to Marinelli being injured. Calling it a "team underperformance" due to 1 guy being injured is disingenuous at best...

You can't just assume "no bonus points". A more interesting comparison would be actual points vs average of points scored by the actual placers of the respective seed
 
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You can't just assume "no bonus points". A more interesting comparison would be actual points vs average of points scored by the actual placers of the respective seed
That would be much better, but I think still sells Iowa a little short. Iowa happens to have a few absolute bonus machines, who it’d be very surprising if they didn’t score many more bonus than average for their placement. Lee, Desanto, Eierman, Kem, Cassiopi all rack up the bonus on a consistent basis.
 
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How about this then:

125: 1 seed garners 20 if holds pat. Lee scored 24.5 So, that is +4.5
133: 4 seed garners 12.5. DeSanto scored 19.5. So, that is +7
141: 1 seed garners 20. Eierman scored 21.5. So, that is +1.5
149: 12 seed garners 2. Murin scored 2. Even
157: 5 seed garners 10. Young scored 8.5. So, that is -1.5
165: 1 seed garners 20. Marinelli scored 4. So, that is -16
174: 1 seed garners 20. Kemerer scored 20. Even
184: 12 seed garners 2. Brands scored 1. So, that is -1
197: 5 seed garners 10. Warner scored 12.5. So, that is +2.5
285: 5 seed garners 10. Cass scored 16.5. So, that is +6.5

So, 7 of the 10 wrestlers scored as much or more than what simply holding seed scores. Those 7 outscored their seed by 22 points, collectively.

Of, the other 3, Young missed by 1.5 points and Brands by 1. So, nearly ALL of the "underperformance" points were due to Marinelli being injured. Calling it a "team underperformance" due to 1 guy being injured is disingenuous at best...
Made your point. I will still take Iowa even if they add suriano!! What’s your call
 
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Carl can't handle losing that is an undisputed fact. He will do most anything if he thinks it will allow him to win. ISU not winning, bump your old coach out, ISU still not winning then leave the Alma Mater hanging in the breeze for the best $$$ backing and local talent in the country. Smooth sailing with all the advantages and oh no, losing two years in a row to a team inferior on paper. No worries, break out the cash and bring in a finalist from Cornell and a National champ to make up the difference.
I actually like that. While psu fans were celebrating on finals night like they won the team championship. Cael was pissed. He’s a winner and wants to win. Love it. If he does end up landing Suriano then it’s going to be an epic battle.

Suriano said he was not coming back to college wrestling until NIL came about. He called it very interesting. So where could he possibly make more money at then psu?
 
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Made your point. I will still take Iowa even if they add suriano!! What’s your call
With all things being even, I would take Iowa over PSU with that roster. However, I really need to see how Lee responds to both knee issues at the same time. I also think Marinelli has to finally break through at NCAA's.

If I had to pick right now, this is how I would place both teams:

125- Lee 1st, Suriano 2nd
133- DeSanto 4th, RBY 3rd
141- Eierman 2nd, Lee 1st
149- Murin 8th, PSU 1-2
157- Young 6th, PSU 1-2
165- Marinelli 3rd, Facundo 7th I really want to pick Marinelli to win, but too many NCAA duds to do so.
174- Kemerer 1st, Starocci 2nd
184- Brands/Assad 2-2, Brooks 1st
197- Warner 2nd, Dean 5th I think something clicked with Warner halfway through the Reenan match and he will be very tough to beat going forward.
285- Cass 3rd, Kerk 4th Kerk's mat wrestling will still hold him back in Folk and the other 2 are just flat out better.
 
With all things being even, I would take Iowa over PSU with that roster. However, I really need to see how Lee responds to both knee issues at the same time. I also think Marinelli has to finally break through at NCAA's.

If I had to pick right now, this is how I would place both teams:

125- Lee 1st, Suriano 2nd
133- DeSanto 4th, RBY 3rd
141- Eierman 2nd, Lee 1st
149- Murin 8th, PSU 1-2
157- Young 6th, PSU 1-2
165- Marinelli 3rd, Facundo 7th I really want to pick Marinelli to win, but too many NCAA duds to do so.
174- Kemerer 1st, Starocci 2nd
184- Brands/Assad 2-2, Brooks 1st
197- Warner 2nd, Dean 5th I think something clicked with Warner halfway through the Reenan match and he will be very tough to beat going forward.
285- Cass 3rd, Kerk 4th Kerk's mat wrestling will still hold him back in Folk and the other 2 are just flat out better.
And Iowa will have more bonus points.
 
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With all things being even, I would take Iowa over PSU with that roster. However, I really need to see how Lee responds to both knee issues at the same time. I also think Marinelli has to finally break through at NCAA's.

If I had to pick right now, this is how I would place both teams:

125- Lee 1st, Suriano 2nd
133- DeSanto 4th, RBY 3rd
141- Eierman 2nd, Lee 1st
149- Murin 8th, PSU 1-2
157- Young 6th, PSU 1-2
165- Marinelli 3rd, Facundo 7th I really want to pick Marinelli to win, but too many NCAA duds to do so.
174- Kemerer 1st, Starocci 2nd
184- Brands/Assad 2-2, Brooks 1st
197- Warner 2nd, Dean 5th I think something clicked with Warner halfway through the Reenan match and he will be very tough to beat going forward.
285- Cass 3rd, Kerk 4th Kerk's mat wrestling will still hold him back in Folk and the other 2 are just flat out better.
I'm shocked that with Caels track record of developing wrestlers and number of freshman National champs and All Americans that no one here is giving a PSU 149 a chance. We all have our opinions but put me in the camp that believes either Bartlett or Van Ness will AA at 149.
 
I'm shocked that with Caels track record of developing wrestlers and number of freshman National champs and All Americans that no one here is giving a PSU 149 a chance. We all have our opinions but put me in the camp that believes either Bartlett or Van Ness will AA at 149.
Developing wrestlers? All his kids are ranked top ten coming in!!! He really doesn’t have to build them, they are already really good!!!
 
Developing wrestlers? All his kids are ranked top ten coming in!!! He really doesn’t have to build them, they are already really good!!!
So Cael didnt develop those freshman champs and AAs? They already came in AA good? So then its settled. Bartlett and Van Ness came in AA good. So lets chalk one of two up as one while we are predicting this years team race.
 
So Cael didnt develop those freshman champs and AAs? They already came in AA good? So then its settled. Bartlett and Van Ness came in AA good. So lets chalk one of two up as one while we are predicting this years team race.
Bartlett was undersized for 149 last year and it was very obvious. I wasn't all that high on Van Ness coming out of High School either. Maybe, he shows up and lights it up, but I will actually need to see results ON THE MAT before picking guys to AA that haven't shown me a thing to believe they will.

Now, I have watched so many of Facundo's matches that I had a better feel for picking him to AA, plus PSU has a WAY better track record of immediate production at the upper weights!
 
So you dont feel either of the two will AA. I disagree and feel either of the two will depending on who gets the nod but your opinion is fair enough. And to be honest, of the 3 you mention, I think Facundo is least likely to AA. We can revisit this down the road when all is said and done. Also, I think you all are underestimating Joe Lee a bit. I think 157 is a better weight for him and if healthier than last year he will surprise. Another we can revisit at a later time..
 
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