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Lowering BA limit to .05

I don't know what the law says in other places, but 25 years ago I had a close call with DUI when I lived in suburban Chicago. I blew a .07, which is obviously below the .08 threshold for automatic DUI. But it was explained to me that depending on circumstances you could still be prosecuted for DUI above .05. They dropped the charge since I didn't do anything else wrong, but my takeaway from that situation was that if I had caused an accident at .07 they still could have charged me with DUI.
 
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When I used to travel a lot for work I was always interested in the local drinking rules.

For instance - did you know in Oklahoma they have to sell beer over a certain alcohol content warm?

And in Kansas - the only day you're not allowed to sell booze is Christmas Day if it happens to fall on a Sunday?

I just spent a week in Tulsa for Chili Bowl. This, I can say with 100% certainty, is not true.

I asked them at the casino "which beers do you have that are not 3.2% beer?" They gave me a list and I drank them... cold.
 
I just spent a week in Tulsa for Chili Bowl. This, I can say with 100% certainty, is not true.

I asked them at the casino "which beers do you have that are not 3.2% beer?" They gave me a list and I drank them... cold.
The cold beer law pertains to 3.2% and under beer sold in packaged form at convenience stores for off-premises consumption. It doesn't apply to beer sold for immediate consumption in bars and casinos.
 
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I’m fine with the 0.08 law as written. The real issue for me is the serial drunk drivers. They aren’t affected by license suspensions and they will eventually hurt someone. There needs to be more significant penalties for repeat offenses.

I would also suggest a tiered system for levels of BAC. If they enact this law, make a level of 0.05 to 0.08 a charge of reckless driving or similar. No suspension of license or jail time, but it would count towards subsequent offenses. 0.081 to 0.12 would be eligible for deferred judgement. 0.12 to 0.18 would be one level of OWI offense with harsher punishments above 0.18.
 
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I would also suggest a tiered system for levels of BAC. If they enact this law, make a level of 0.05 to 0.08 a charge of reckless driving or similar. No suspension of license or jail time, but it would count towards subsequent offenses. 0.081 to 0.12 would be eligible for deferred judgement. 0.12 to 0.18 would be one level of OWI offense with harsher punishments above 0.18.
I am 100% in favor of this.
 
Of course as soon as you're picked up for .06 the insurance company raises your insurance to 2,400.00 a year. 16 million illegals will still be driving without insurance however........

I remember reading that people who had to get the high risk insurance following a DUI sometimes ended up paying less because they had never bothered to shop around before and some insurance companies identified that people with a DUI end up being extra careful after their "wake up call".

I'm not going to bother trying source it.
 
That might be some rare exception but when one of my employees would get a DUI my insurance company said either he can't drive a company vehicle or you can pony up an extra xxxx to leave him behind the wheel. I always thought it was a scam because clearly my employees would not be driving while drinking. I could see if they offered the exclusion that said so and so can drive a company truck during work hours , however if in an accident and ANY alcohol is registered, then your policy would be null and void. IE it would be up to me to police my employees or risk the liability.
 
That might be some rare exception but when one of my employees would get a DUI my insurance company said either he can't drive a company vehicle or you can pony up an extra xxxx to leave him behind the wheel. I always thought it was a scam because clearly my employees would not be driving while drinking. I could see if they offered the exclusion that said so and so can drive a company truck during work hours , however if in an accident and ANY alcohol is registered, then your policy would be null and void. IE it would be up to me to police my employees or risk the liability.

Not surprising that commercial insurance has different results.
 
.05 is an arbitrary number... just like .08 is... and .10 was before that.

This. ^^^

I could drink a 12 pack and still be a better driver than most people out on the road. What about that stone sober 80 year old lady who has poor reflexes, won't drive with the flow of traffic, gets confused, and is just an accident waiting to happen. She is legal yet I would be an illegal, yet far superior driver, after sipping on a few brews. The "legal limits" are just arbitrary numbers, the bottom line is can you still perform the function regardless of sober or hammered drunk. There is also something to be said for being under the influence at a certain time and place. Alone on a gravel road in the middle of the night or at 5PM on a Thursday during rush hour traffic at the intersection of 494 and 35W in Bloomington, MN, one place is inherently more dangerous to be under the influence than the other.

I don't worry about it though, if I have one beer I do not drive anywhere. Which leads me to have no limits, if I have one I'm having 5 or 6. I'm not driving anyway.
 
It’s not the .06 or .09 drivers causing the problems. They need to quit getting rid of stupid rules that accomplish nothing and go after actual problem drinkers that cause major accidents.
 
I work in law enforcement and am not in favor of it. Don't really know anyone who is.
 
Ten thousand people die every year in alcohol related auto accidents.
Perhaps, but the numbers have been trending down since 2004. As others have said, more accidents are caused by people misusing their phones than by drunk drivers.
 
Perhaps, but the numbers have been trending down since 2004. As others have said, more accidents are caused by people misusing their phones than by drunk drivers.

About 3000 people are killed each year from distracted driving accidents. Although I agree that this activity should be clamped down on, drunk driving is still by far the biggest killer, so there is plenty of motivation to clamp down on it, other than to increase fine collections.
 
Every fatality or accident I dealt with as a doctor in downtown Detroit involved people that were hammered drunk. No one was brought in with a 0.12 or 0.08. These people were like 0.22, 0.38, etc.
 
Just curious what level you think is actually impaired? Do you wish there were no arbitrary limits and you had discretion?
That is a good and honest question and I don't have the perfect answer. I have had a drunk over .30 carry on a normal conversation and another at .120 be complete idiot.
 
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I don't know what the law says in other places, but 25 years ago I had a close call with DUI when I lived in suburban Chicago. I blew a .07, which is obviously below the .08 threshold for automatic DUI. But it was explained to me that depending on circumstances you could still be prosecuted for DUI above .05. They dropped the charge since I didn't do anything else wrong, but my takeaway from that situation was that if I had caused an accident at .07 they still could have charged me with DUI.
You can be successfully prosecuted for DUI at 0.01 if you show signs of impairment. All the .08 means is that if you blow it, you are guilty, no matter whether you have demonstrated any indications of impairment or not.
 
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That is a good and honest question and I don't have the perfect answer. I have had a drunk over .30 carry on a normal conversation and another at .120 be complete idiot.

I think the problem is the state can't have that much of a difference as creative attorneys would argue that YOUR subjective opinion can vary and so why did you pick person ABC and not XYZ? But the truth is I'm sure there are plenty of situations where you or one of your colleagues picks somebody up for something that you didn't originally expect to be impaired driving and later realized the person was like .13 and it probably isn't very fun to put them in your car and know that you pretty much ruined their next year. I would have a hard time with not just giving them a ticket for whatever the original violation was and saying "look, your house is 2 miles away - you better go slow and go straight there."
 
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Ten thousand people die every year in alcohol related auto accidents.

Presenting a statistic in isolation isn't a compelling argument. How many of those 10,000 fatalities were caused by a driver between .05 and .08? How many deaths would be prevented if this was law? How many people will drive by at .20 while LEO resources are arresting someone who blew a .05? There's only so many officers.
 
Presenting a statistic in isolation isn't a compelling argument. How many of those 10,000 fatalities were caused by a driver between .05 and .08? How many deaths would be prevented if this was law? How many people will drive by at .20 while LEO resources are arresting someone who blew a .05? There's only so many officers.

I was responding to a post that indicated the motivation was to increase revenues. The statistic by itself shows plenty of motivation that has nothing to do with raising revenues.

I'm honestly perplexed at the outrage over these kinds of laws. A 180-pound man can have three drinks and be okay. You want to have more than three drinks then just make arrangements where you don't have to drive. It's not that difficult. And 10,000 deaths a year ought to be motivation enough to not push your luck.

In the late 70's, when I was in my bar hopping phase, a group of us went out drinking multiple times a week. Sometimes we drove 20 or 30 miles to various bars that we liked. Even as young kids (drinking age was 18 back then) with very low sense of responsibility we didn't want to die or lose our driver's license. So we always had one designated driver who would only have one or two drinks. That grown ass men find this to be too much of a burden, especially in today's world where it's so much easier to get a ride, is beyond me.
 
I think rural areas should have a much higher threshold for BAC. Not that cops are going to catch you here in the boonies unless you have a one car accident. At which point you’re probably well over .2% and deserve being arrested.

(I’m mostly kidding about the first part)
 
Changing the BAC will change how much alcohol needs to be consumed to exceed it.

@The_Joker made two points:

a)With Uber and Lyft there's no reason to drive after drinking (his primary point)
b)Since even at .08 you pretty much have to stop drinking after two drinks in order to be safe, so no matter how low they make it it's already so low you can't drive after drinking socially anyway (his second point)

Both of these statements "make sense", even if you disagree.
 
I was responding to a post that indicated the motivation was to increase revenues. The statistic by itself shows plenty of motivation that has nothing to do with raising revenues.

I'm honestly perplexed at the outrage over these kinds of laws. A 180-pound man can have three drinks and be okay. You want to have more than three drinks then just make arrangements where you don't have to drive. It's not that difficult. And 10,000 deaths a year ought to be motivation enough to not push your luck.

In the late 70's, when I was in my bar hopping phase, a group of us went out drinking multiple times a week. Sometimes we drove 20 or 30 miles to various bars that we liked. Even as young kids (drinking age was 18 back then) with very low sense of responsibility we didn't want to die or lose our driver's license. So we always had one designated driver who would only have one or two drinks. That grown ass men find this to be too much of a burden, especially in today's world where it's so much easier to get a ride, is beyond me.

Your estimates don't work. Over 10 years ago I was that DD. A bunch of us got together to play cards. Leading up to this event, here were the details: Got off work and went for a two mile run about 5:30 PM. When I arrived home I got a call from a buddy that we were playing poker that night so I showered up, grabbed a six pack and headed out the door. Got together around seven and played cards all evening. About 1 AM the game was breaking up, one of my buddies was smashed and in no shape to drive. I had drank 6 beers over the course of about 6 hours, 7pm-1am, I'm good to drive, I'll give you a ride home. Dropped him off at his house and headed home. Got pulled over for doing 30 in a 25 (cop was obviously just trolling and pulling anybody over at that hour of the night). Ended up I blew a .12. Could not believe it. Must have been the combo of exercising and not eating. I thought I had done what I should have been doing, drank moderately and didn't exceed one beer an hour, didn't feel any buzz or anything, still got popped. Ended up costing me money and now I can't even get into Canada cleanly.

F drunk driving laws. They are absolutely stupid. They make no sense and are just a cash grab. They've gone way over the line when people who think they are being moderate, that think they are trying to do the right thing, still get caught up in a web of laws and are busted. I don't mess with it anymore, one beer and I won't get behind the wheel because it doesn't take anything at all to get pulled over for a DUI these days. Remember that the next time you order a margarita from Applebee's and drive out of the parking lot, you are probably "over the limit" and could be setting yourself up for a DUI.
 
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Your estimates don't work. Over 10 years ago I was that DD. A bunch of us got together to play cards. Leading up to this event, here were the details: Got off work and went for a two mile run about 5:30 PM. When I arrived home I got a call from a buddy that we were playing poker that night so I showered up, grabbed a six pack and headed out the door. Got together around seven and played cards all evening. About 1 AM the game was breaking up, one of my buddies was smashed and in no shape to drive. I had drank 6 beers over the course of about 6 hours, 7pm-1am, I'm good to drive, I'll give you a ride home. Dropped him off at his house and headed home. Got pulled over for doing 30 in a 25 (cop was obviously just trolling and pulling anybody over at that hour of the night). Ended up I blew a .12. Could not believe it. Must have been the combo of exercising and not eating. I thought I had done what I should have been doing, drank moderately and didn't exceed one beer an hour, didn't feel any buzz or anything, still got popped. Ended up costing me money and now I can't even get into Canada cleanly.

F drunk driving laws. They are absolutely stupid. They make no sense and are just a cash grab. They've gone way over the line when people who think they are being moderate, that think they are trying to do the right thing, still get caught up in a web of laws and are busted. I don't mess with it anymore, one beer and I won't get behind the wheel because it doesn't take anything at all to get pulled over for a DUI these days. Remember that the next time you order a margarita from Applebee's and drive out of the parking lot, you are probably "over the limit" and could be setting yourself up for a DUI.

Are you ~100 pounds?
 
At the time I was rolling about 235. 6-2, 235 and built.

The only thing I can think of is that I worked out, didn't eat, and was dehydrated, and that is what messed up my metabolism. I had to call a buddy to pick me up at the cop shop, and since he had been playing cards too he sent his wife (no pic). Her first comment to me was that I wasn't even drunk how the hell did I get pulled over and charged. I said I've been trying to figure that out myself.
 
Your estimates don't work. Over 10 years ago I was that DD. A bunch of us got together to play cards. Leading up to this event, here were the details: Got off work and went for a two mile run about 5:30 PM. When I arrived home I got a call from a buddy that we were playing poker that night so I showered up, grabbed a six pack and headed out the door. Got together around seven and played cards all evening. About 1 AM the game was breaking up, one of my buddies was smashed and in no shape to drive. I had drank 6 beers over the course of about 6 hours, 7pm-1am, I'm good to drive, I'll give you a ride home. Dropped him off at his house and headed home. Got pulled over for doing 30 in a 25 (cop was obviously just trolling and pulling anybody over at that hour of the night). Ended up I blew a .12. Could not believe it. Must have been the combo of exercising and not eating. I thought I had done what I should have been doing, drank moderately and didn't exceed one beer an hour, didn't feel any buzz or anything, still got popped. Ended up costing me money and now I can't even get into Canada cleanly.

F drunk driving laws. They are absolutely stupid. They make no sense and are just a cash grab. They've gone way over the line when people who think they are being moderate, that think they are trying to do the right thing, still get caught up in a web of laws and are busted. I don't mess with it anymore, one beer and I won't get behind the wheel because it doesn't take anything at all to get pulled over for a DUI these days. Remember that the next time you order a margarita from Applebee's and drive out of the parking lot, you are probably "over the limit" and could be setting yourself up for a DUI.
Don't drink and drive.

It's not that hard.
 
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We were discussing moderate social drinking and driving. One poster mentioned having 3 beers and being okay to drive. My example is that it doesn't work that way. You leave yourself open to a DUI if you've had only a few. I learned that and don't drive at all after I've had one beer anymore. My other point is that the laws are f'ing stupid if that is the result, that even moderate drinkers who are trying to be conscious of their BAC and trying to do the right thing get caught up in this.

It's just stupid to be so absolute and say, welp, don't drink and drive. Current laws can catch grandmother's having a glass of wine with dinner and make criminals out of them. That's stupid.
 
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