Marinelli or bust mentality!
- Thread starter Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan
- Start date
My two cents: I don't think it matters if he wrestles or not. I just don't see us competing for a title this year or next ... I like the future of Iowa wrestling and we're going to be fun to watch ... Penn State is loaded and they've sort of become the Alabama of wrestling ... Roster loaded with studs and always competing for the title ...
So if they're the Alabama of wrestling I assume you mean they'll dominate all year and then Iowa will beat them at nationals. 
Get out the calculator and do the math. AM is not even close to ready. Plus there are too many wrestlers that are better right now. At the absolute best he could AA on the bottom of the podium. I think that is stretch right now. He would have a tough time even qualifying. Love the guy but he needs a year.
If I were an Iowa fan I'd be rooting like hell for them to pull his redshirt. It appears that Hall's shirt will stay on and that means, while still very strong, PSU is not unbeatable this year. Why wouldn't Iowa go for broke? Especially considering that PSU will be even stronger the next 2 years.
As a casual wrestling fan this frustrates the hell out of me. I remember hearing the same thing when it was Taylor and Ruth. At some point you gotten accept the challenge that PSU has thrown down instead of continually 'kicking the can down the road' as it were. You cant just keep waiting for the perfect time or the perfect opportunity, because sometimes that never comes. Just MHO
Iowa is slowly but surely getting some big guns and throwing away the knives we are taking to gun fights.
I totally agree to wrestle this year and red shirt next year. But coming from a Nittany Lion, two or three years ago Cael redshirted a couple of guys instead of going for four in a row. Dumb mistake in my opinion???
In looking at our team I see where Gilman, Clark, Tofer, Meyer and Brooks are all sr.
So we have no chance in the world to win anything next year. So why shouldn't we try and use AM this year and red shirt next year? Clemson didn't have a chance to beat Alabama this year (?) so the only thing this would alter would be him being on the podium next year and gaining one or two spots. Just my thoughts...
So we have no chance in the world to win anything next year. So why shouldn't we try and use AM this year and red shirt next year? Clemson didn't have a chance to beat Alabama this year (?) so the only thing this would alter would be him being on the podium next year and gaining one or two spots. Just my thoughts...
I think that Cael made a calculated decision that after losing Taylor and Ruth, his team did not have enough to win it in 2015 anyway. He chose to redshirt Nico and Zane in order to load up for a bear the following years. I think it proved to be a wise decision, IMO.
With the upswing in recruiting, the 2021 Alex Marinelli is going to contribute at Nationals much more than the 2017 AMar.
Just think if we would have 2017 Nathan Burak right now. That's the one that burns me.
Just think if we would have 2017 Nathan Burak right now. That's the one that burns me.
I don't think any of the proponents of his wrestling this year have him not wrestling in 2021. What we are saying is he should wrestle this season since 4 of the 5 best guys are Seniors and another starter is as well. This looks like the best chance Iowa has to win it for a couple of seasons. Put him out there this year and then redshirt next to rebuild. He will still be on the team in 2021 and may have a Team Championship under his belt while redshirting!
Too bad we didn't have this board when Gable brought Lincoln out of his shirt to give the Hawks a better chance at winning nationals. Lincoln looked bad his first few matches out of his shirt, but we know how that turned out in the end. The prevailing opinion would have been that Gable has lost his touch, Lincoln should never be brought out of his shirt. The bull should be wrestling this year to give his team the best shot of winning the championship. This type of decision is never a sure thing, but it sure makes for excitement and memories when it works out.
He wrestles this year and then redshirts the next. Whether or not he redshirts this year or the following one, he would still be eligible to wrestle in 2021.
I think Cael was planning for the future with the redshirt decision but not sure he was giving up the chase completely. I thought he might have been counting on the Alton's being able to return to prior injury form and during the scuffle in looked like Dylan was back and would contribute points with a good showing and then for a very brief period it looked like Andrew was back but in the end neither was able to return to form.
Alex is just to small for 65 currently. I believe it would a b stretch for him to AA this year.
I'm guessing this is on Alex (not to be taken as a negative).
Brands asked if he wanted to be pulled, and the answer that was given was a "sure" not a "hell yeah".
Complete speculation of course, but it's the right call for Alex, IMO.
Brands asked if he wanted to be pulled, and the answer that was given was a "sure" not a "hell yeah".
Complete speculation of course, but it's the right call for Alex, IMO.
Think Iowa is the 2nd best team as long as either Young or alex are in at 65 and to have any chance of winning they need some points at 65 and right now that would mean pulling Young's shirt which as a wrestling fan I would love to see. He can shirt next year while Alex wrestles then make a move up. Even with the shirt pulled a lot would have to fall into place for Iowa but would make a more interesting NCAA.
I'm OK with Am red shirting.
125?
133?
Turk/Happel
Sorensen
Kemmerer
Bull
Young
Wilke
Holloway
Stoll
This is still a pretty good team, maybe not a title team, but still a good team. You always see some people wrestling better than projected (carton) so we hope that happens next year. I'm confident in our coaches developing.
125?
133?
Turk/Happel
Sorensen
Kemmerer
Bull
Young
Wilke
Holloway
Stoll
This is still a pretty good team, maybe not a title team, but still a good team. You always see some people wrestling better than projected (carton) so we hope that happens next year. I'm confident in our coaches developing.
I get that, but if he redshirts next year to "rebuild" you still expect a national title?
I think the bottom line is Iowa high school wrestling needs to get better. The 90's teams had lots of high caliber local talent.
1990-1999 National Champs from Iowa:
Tom Brands 3
Terry Brands 2
Lee Fulhart 1
Mark Reiland 1
Mark Ironside 2
Cliff Moore 1
Daryl Weber 1
Jeff McGinness 2
Doug Schwab 1
Jessie Whitmer 1
That's 10 individual champs with a combined 15 titles
Compare that decade to Brands' decade tenure as coach:
Jay Borshel 1
Matt McDonough 2
Derek St. John 1
That's only 3 local champs with 4 titles between them.
It's not that our recruiting has significantly dropped off. Gable used to form a core around elite Iowa guys and sprinkle in the regional guys like the Williams brothers, McIIravey, etc. The last 4 elite commits we've received (Kemerer, Marinelli, Lee and Teasdale) are all from OH or PA.
1990-1999 National Champs from Iowa:
Tom Brands 3
Terry Brands 2
Lee Fulhart 1
Mark Reiland 1
Mark Ironside 2
Cliff Moore 1
Daryl Weber 1
Jeff McGinness 2
Doug Schwab 1
Jessie Whitmer 1
That's 10 individual champs with a combined 15 titles
Compare that decade to Brands' decade tenure as coach:
Jay Borshel 1
Matt McDonough 2
Derek St. John 1
That's only 3 local champs with 4 titles between them.
It's not that our recruiting has significantly dropped off. Gable used to form a core around elite Iowa guys and sprinkle in the regional guys like the Williams brothers, McIIravey, etc. The last 4 elite commits we've received (Kemerer, Marinelli, Lee and Teasdale) are all from OH or PA.
Expect? No. Believe it is their best chance to win one? Yes. As of now, I see ZERO points at 165. 6-8 points from Marinelli really could be the difference between 3rd and 1st.
After watching the OkState dual, I still believe Iowa would be a contender if they had a 165 scoring points at NCAA's. I still see 60 from 125,133 and 149. 157,174,184 and 295 should get another 40ish. 141 and 197 maybe a 1 or 2. That puts them around 102. I truly think 110 is the magic number. Without Marinelli, I just don't see the getting there. I hope I am wrong!
If you add kids from Iowa that were national champs during the Brands era that weren't Hawkeyes, who is added to the list? Gadson...anyone else?
That's it I believe. You'd have to go all the way back to 2007 (Paulson) to find another non-Hawkeye local product champ.
Just my take.
The Marinelli and Young kids have talent and will be solid multiple time AAs.
The question about pulling either's shirt isn't all that complicated.
165 is loaded and Young isn't placing top 8 this year. Marinelli I do not think places top 8 either, but for argument's sake assume he does. Place 7th or 8th he picks up 6, 7 or 8 points.
For all the guys advocating Marinelli's shirt come off - do any of you really think the Hawks miss the top of the podium by only 6 - 8 points?
The Marinelli and Young kids have talent and will be solid multiple time AAs.
The question about pulling either's shirt isn't all that complicated.
165 is loaded and Young isn't placing top 8 this year. Marinelli I do not think places top 8 either, but for argument's sake assume he does. Place 7th or 8th he picks up 6, 7 or 8 points.
For all the guys advocating Marinelli's shirt come off - do any of you really think the Hawks miss the top of the podium by only 6 - 8 points?
Jurgens won titles in 2000 and 2001.
So 4 titles from Iowa kids from 2000-2009? Jurgens x2, Moore, and Paulson.
2010-now is 5 titles? McDonough x2, Borschel, St. John, Gadson
That's an interesting way to look at things. So were the 90's an anomaly? Or has the amount of top level talent in the state dropped?
So 4 titles from Iowa kids from 2000-2009? Jurgens x2, Moore, and Paulson.
2010-now is 5 titles? McDonough x2, Borschel, St. John, Gadson
That's an interesting way to look at things. So were the 90's an anomaly? Or has the amount of top level talent in the state dropped?
The 80s were good too so the 90s weren't an anomaly.
Royce Alger 2
Pete Bush 1
Kevin Dresser 1
Jim Zalesky 3
Jim Gibbons 1
Joe Gibbons 1
Eric Voelker 2
Tim Krieger 2
Mike Van Arsdale 1
Barry Davis 3
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Tough to say whether talent in Iowa has dropped off from where it used to be or that wrestling and competition has improved in other regions of the country. Over-simplifying but I'd lean towards the latter.
Not sure if that was directed towards me or not. If so, I said Young wasn't placing top 8 this year.
Many of those I listed were ISU products. The Gibbons, Van Arsdale, Krieger, Voelker, etc...
