Marinelli RS or..
- Thread starter pinters
- Start date
I think we should through Young even though marinelli is better.
I think he's a fringe AA, and I don't think his points are the difference between winning and losing a title. He's going to be a stud, but I don't think you could count on more than 5 points this year.
Let him shirt and hope that we have a better chance at a NC in four years than we have now.
Grothus is going to get jealous of all the threads Marinelli is getting.
Let him shirt.
Have Young and Gunther wrestle off for the spot.
If Young wins he goes and he can red shirt next year with Lee and the others.
He can also build him self up for 174 when his shirt is over
Have Young and Gunther wrestle off for the spot.
If Young wins he goes and he can red shirt next year with Lee and the others.
He can also build him self up for 174 when his shirt is over
Let Marinelli wrestle this year then redshirt next year with Lee. IMar will still be at 165 next year anyways so what's the difference. Young can go 165 next year if he wants or he can go to 174 if he is big enough.
I think we need to have Young or Marinelli in the lineup this year. We need someone who can score points at 165, maybe even get onto the podium. I don't think either will contend for 1st-4th this season, or next. So I think it makes sense that we need one of them, when we have our strongest team top to bottom since the 2010 team. Go all in, and if we come up short with a 2nd place finish, so be it. At least we took the chance, I'd rather do that then finish 3rd/4th/5th and wonder what might have happened. 7th/8th place AA's score 6-8 points, it might not seem like much, but that would've put us into 3rd last year I believe instead of 5th. I just think it's way too early to say "Oh, 5/6 points won't make a difference." When in actuality it very well could. Look at some of PSU's titles, they won by about that margin over Minnesota and OSU a couple years I think.
Marinelli is the best option to score points at 165. Tough choice for Brands. My gut tells me to shirt him and build for the promising future. My heart says let him loose and see how far he can help the current Seniors go out with a bang.
We are getting 3rd at best, with or without them. PSU and OSU have too much for us not to mention fOSU is built for the NCAA tournament.
The Clark situation put me in the shirt camp.
Agree to disagree. We have a lineup capable of winning. We have 2 guaranteed finalists, with 2 more strong contenders. If Clark is healthy come post season he is a guaranteed finalist as well. Kemerer CAN make the finals, he has some of the best skills in this weight class other than Nolf.
Meyer, Brooks, and Stoll will all AA. How high, will be the difference. Carton is showing much improvement from the past seasons, he believes in himself. He might not be an AA but 2-2, R12 is not unrealistic at all for Carton. If he keeps getting better, would not be shocked at all to see him low on the stand. That leaves 165 and 197. Wilcke isn't perfect but he's undersized, and he is very crafty on his feet. Has shown some slick stuff. Probably won't AA, but don't think he goes 0-fer. Think he can get a win or 2. Then we have Marinelli/Young who very much CAN challenge for a low to mid tier spot on the podium.
tOSU has more holes in the lineup than we do, and we have better tournament strength with a healthy Clark. OSU does not have the high end fire power to win IMO. They only have 1 finalist in Heil, and he will NOT be scoring any bonus. The rest of the lineup is mid to low AAs, with 1-2 non AA's. Having a lot of AAs is nice on paper, but not without champs/finalists. Brock/Collica are the next best guys on the team after Heil. They will both be about 3rd-5th. Boyd might join that group too, and Smith, but after them who else? Maybe Crutchmer. OSU will have a very hard time cracking 100-110 points at NCAAs IMO, despite their very high early rankings.
I say let it fly. Just seems like a lot of times by the time they are seniors their body is so banged up anyway. Not to mention injuries on some of the other squads may play into factor also
Let him grow a little. Yea the team is important be he has his own legacy to deal with. RS or no it needs to be what makes him better. Wrestle a year and shirt to work on development areas or shirt to get acclimated. It is not about what PSU has or is next year is a "rebuild". It is about him. The team stuff will work itself out. PSU is not a lock for the next 5 years. Favorites yes. Lock, no.
Shirt marinelli and wrestle young. Young redshirts next year. That gives young two years to grow into 174. It also puts Marinelli a year behind Massa, Valencia and Joseph who right now are all ahead of him based on the limited sample size. I think you'd see some drastic improvement out of young being in the lineup the next three months.
Gilman, Clark (likely) , Sorensen, Kemerer - all top 1-3 chances.... Meyer, Brooks, Stoll all 4-6 possibles.....if Marinelli or even an outside shot, Carton get hot, 7-8th and you get 9 scorerer's.... next year you lose 4 AA's from that group...... let him wrestle this year and shirt next year when it's a down year....
Next year is a rebuild anyway, shirting him this year vs next is a wash as far as the future years going with Lee. It is go this year and choose to help the team or go next year and he is likely to finish a bit higher as an individual on a worse team.
I feel its in the best interest of the freshman wrestlers to redshirt. This team has too many inconsistant wrestlers to win a title.
Good write up. At this point we have no guaranteed finalists. G-man is close to a sure thing to win a NC. I don't see us winning anywhere else unless Clark gets back into form. Being finalists and not winning is a bummer. Like last year. BS is no better than second. From there on Kemerer will not beat Nolf. We would need a lot of 3d place finishers to win it. Where do we come up with 1 1st, 2 2nds and 5 thirds? This would probably be enough to clinch it?
If we had that many 3rds, that would easily be enough to clinch it. I posted a topic earlier about the winning team spreads of AA's.
2016= 1-1-2-2-2-6....123 pts....PSU
6 AAs, 5 finalists, 2 champs
2015= 1-1-2-3-5....102 pts....tOSU
5 AAs, 3 finalists, 2 champs
2014= 1-1-3-5-5-7-7....109.5 pts....PSU
7 AAs, 2 finalists, 2 champs
2013= 1-1-2-2-2....123.5....PSU
5 AAs, 5 finalists, 2 champs
2012= 1-1-1-2-2-3....143 pts....PSU
6 AAs, 5 finalists, 3 champs
2011= 1-2-2-3-3....107.5 pts....PSU
5 AAs, 3 Finalists, 1 Champ
2010= 1-1-1-2-2-7-7-8....134.5 pts....Iowa
8 AAs, 5 Finalists, 3 Champs
2009= 2-3-4-4-7....96.5 pts....Iowa
5 AAs, 1 Finalist, No champs
2008= 1-1-2-3-5-6-6....117.5 pts....Iowa
7 AAs, 3 Finalists, 2 Champs
2007= 1-3-3-5-6....98 pts....Minnesota
5 AAs, 1 finalist, 1 Champ
If we had Two 1sts, and Two 2nd's... I think we have a very good chance to win, then we have a supporting cast of Meyer/Brooks/Stoll/Carton/Wilcke/(Marinelli/Young/Gunther) to make up. I think between our big 4 they can put up 80-82 pts.
If the Hawks get a champ, 2 runner-ups and 5 thirds that will get you to 120, bonus points gets you 130+. That will get it done.
That would be a heck of a tournament.
I think you have to pull the RS. This year is likely the best team we will have for a couple of years with Gilman, Clark, Meyer, and Brooks all SRs. I know we have some good recruits coming in, but you just never know whats going to happen. We need all the bullets in the chamber come March. I still don't think it will be enough to win a team title, but its our best chance for awhile.
While I agree we have an outside shot at making a push to challenge PSU and Ok St, the fact that the top five wrestlers in 133 are freaking studs and our boy Clark is beat up, I'd vote to put Young in and build for 2019. Clark will have to beat 2 or 3 of the following guys; Montoya, Richards, Brock, NaTo, and not to mention Gross at the national tournament. Not impossible or necessarily a long shot but people calling Clark a sure thing finalist IMO is insane. Kills me to say that but a spade's a spade.
PS: I was pretty damn impressed with Kaleb Young at Midlands. His size surprised me in person. There is a lot to be excited about there!
PS: I was pretty damn impressed with Kaleb Young at Midlands. His size surprised me in person. There is a lot to be excited about there!
I voted to pull it based on the fact that no matter what, as MVPFAN stated above, whether this year or next year, he shirts one or the other, it's a wash.
No matter who in our line up we wrestle next year, it won't be a better team than this years team, so add a little fire power to this year and hope he grows with every match he wrestles.
Either way, it's a tough call. Not a fan of pulling RS's. Something McD said on the broadcast really shocked me....as a True Freshman, wrestling up at 133, he failed to place at the midlands. Says a lot about the difference between taking the year to work in the room and jumping right into the line up. Makes you think.
No matter who in our line up we wrestle next year, it won't be a better team than this years team, so add a little fire power to this year and hope he grows with every match he wrestles.
Either way, it's a tough call. Not a fan of pulling RS's. Something McD said on the broadcast really shocked me....as a True Freshman, wrestling up at 133, he failed to place at the midlands. Says a lot about the difference between taking the year to work in the room and jumping right into the line up. Makes you think.
Wrestling up at 133 was most likely the main reason he didn't place. His size was a major reason he was so dominant at 125. He was able to get to the legs,often with little to no setup and usually fully extended, and nearly always pulled them all the way in and finished the takedown. I have no doubt that he benefited from his redshirt season, but I would bet he would have done very well at 125 by the end of that season if he was needed.
Edited to add: What I said above about his ability to finish was even more apparent during his senior year since it was derailed due to the shoulder/neck injury. He was often stuck in those extended leg attacks and couldn't finish. Seeing that difference made it obvious that something was seriously wrong with him physically.
I'd say at this point this is the best option. From an outsiders perspective - Iowa needs to assess if they have a shot at a title this year or next, period. If the answer is no, you do what's best for the individual. I think burning a shirt for AM or Young this year just because you think there's a better look at the team race this year than next is a waste. If Clark is healthy and Brands believes he can make a run at this whole thing - throw him in! If there's doubt, you gotta give them the year to develop to get the best 4 years out of each individually.
Damn near every time a controversial red shirt is pulled there is the chance that it won't pan out, that's part of the risk. I see your point but you could argue most of the time you pull a shirt, it isn't in the best interest for the individual as it is for the team.
McD Wrestled 130 in HS and 133 at Midlands that year. AM wrestled 160 in HS and 165 at Midlands this year. Without any knowledge of what's going on behind the scenes, it would appear that 157 would be an ideal spot for AM (like going down was for McD) if it were open. By the end of this year, as you stated for McD, he would likely fair pretty well. Not sure how he does at 165 this year as I think he is out horsed with the top guys. But since the 157 won't open up for at least another year, if even then, he might be a career 165'er.
A RS year not only will give him the chance to improve and acclimate, it would also be a chance to prep him for the weight, or in McD's case, commit to a lower weight. Which make this a tough call, because even knowing this, it's still probably better for the team over the course of 2 years, if we put him in the line up now.
Absolutely! But my point is that I feel if Clark isn't able to be a finalist this year due to heath then don't just burn another kids shirt to hopefully get a team trophy. If you can make a serious run at the title then a team first mentality may be in order, if there's enough doubt - give the individual their RS to develop.
This is kind of an "if you ain't first, you're last!" mentality (ala Ricky Bobby) but I think that's probably in line with many fans of a traditional powerhouse. Team trophies are better than nothing but really it's all about the title in the end!
This is kind of an "if you ain't first, you're last!" mentality (ala Ricky Bobby) but I think that's probably in line with many fans of a traditional powerhouse. Team trophies are better than nothing but really it's all about the title in the end!
I basically agree with everything you are saying. I just think the team needs him at 165 this year and even if he did rs this year and compete next year, 165 will be an absolute blood bath with IMar, Massa, Lewis, Rogers, Joseph, Valencia, Walsh and Steiert all returning with an added year of key experience. I don't see him losing much if he goes this year and redshirts next year.
All signs point to us not wrestling Lee and Warner next year. If that is the case I think it is an absolute no-brainer to pull Marianlli's shirt. True freshman that wrestle in the lineup seem to have a tendency to make huge in-season improvements. Martin & McFadden last year. Dance his freshman year ... He already looks to be easily at the round of 12 level of talent. It does not take a huge stretch in imagination to see him be a mid (5-6th) AA, which is probably 10+ points.
You are not burning anything if he takes it next year.I'd rather get second than 5th any day.
Honestly this is my gut feeling for how our guys do at the end of the year and you can determine how I think we will do.
Gilman: CHAMP
Clark: 1st to 4th
Carton: rd. of 12
Sorensen: 2nd
Kemdawg: 2nd to 5th
Gunther: Zero pts.
Meyer: 5th to rd. of 12
Brooks: 3rd to rd. of 12
Wilcke: Zero pts.
Stoll: 2nd to 6th
Next year won't be all that bad either. Not a contender but top 5 is not going to be to far out of reach.
Laux: AA
Wagner: NQ
Happel: rd. of 12
Sorensen: 2nd
Kemdawg: 2nd or 3rd
Marinelli: 2nd to 6th
Young: AA
Wilcke: AA
Holloway????: zero points IF he makes it down I still have no faith in him. Not trying to bash him that bad just don't trust him right now.
Stoll:1st to 4th
Gilman: CHAMP
Clark: 1st to 4th
Carton: rd. of 12
Sorensen: 2nd
Kemdawg: 2nd to 5th
Gunther: Zero pts.
Meyer: 5th to rd. of 12
Brooks: 3rd to rd. of 12
Wilcke: Zero pts.
Stoll: 2nd to 6th
Next year won't be all that bad either. Not a contender but top 5 is not going to be to far out of reach.
Laux: AA
Wagner: NQ
Happel: rd. of 12
Sorensen: 2nd
Kemdawg: 2nd or 3rd
Marinelli: 2nd to 6th
Young: AA
Wilcke: AA
Holloway????: zero points IF he makes it down I still have no faith in him. Not trying to bash him that bad just don't trust him right now.
Stoll:1st to 4th
