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Maurice Flemming

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Team MVP
Sep 19, 2013
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Former Iowa cb Maurice Flemming has blasted Iowa, Kirk Ferentz and Chris Doyle about his time in Iowa. This is posted in CR Gazette. Sorry I do not have a link. Sounds like more sour grapes if you ask me.
 
Former Iowa cb Maurice Flemming has blasted Iowa, Kirk Ferentz and Chris Doyle about his time in Iowa. This is posted in CR Gazette. Sorry I do not have a link. Sounds like more sour grapes if you ask me.

I agree He's same guy who most expected to be starting CB and got beat out by Mabin. Think he ended up grad transferring to WV.
 
No dreads allowed.

l1t2njchnrgkfhe1d1jb


5b6e2a709e3cd.image.jpg
 
Fleming may (probably was) have gotten teased for his hair and dreadlocks.

BIG. F**KING. DEAL.

These guys are reaching for whatever they possibly can to transform it into an explosive ordeal.

This game of finger-pointing is beyond out of control. I'm in disbelief, honestly..
 
Another incredibly weak story..... It used to be that lengthy war deployments, killing other men, and watching your buddies get killed gave you PTSD......the horrors of war. Now, apparently Iowa football is causing it by being insensitive and enforcing rules related to hair, clothing, eating, etc.
 
so if all this crap is made up nonsense, Robert T. Green talking points...which it probably is for the most part … why would doyle be booted?
 
To sum up the article for most of it he rips on Doyle. At the end Fleming said he tried to transfer 3x. On his final attempt where he succeeded he said during his meeting with KF he had this quote of what Ferentz said to him

"I need him in life, and I'll never be anything without him, and that I was truly making a huge mistake."

Flemming also claimed he developed PTSD from the incidents that took place under KF and Doyle's leadership....
 
To sum up the article for most of it he rips on Doyle. At the end Fleming said he tried to transfer 3x. On his final attempt where he succeeded he said during his meeting with KF he had this quote of what Ferentz said to him

"I need him in life, and I'll never be anything without him, and that I was truly making a huge mistake."

Flemming also claimed he developed PTSD from the incidents that took place under KF and Doyle's leadership....


My BS meter is pegged on that quote.
 
To sum up the article for most of it he rips on Doyle. At the end Fleming said he tried to transfer 3x. On his final attempt where he succeeded he said during his meeting with KF he had this quote of what Ferentz said to him

"I need him in life, and I'll never be anything without him, and that I was truly making a huge mistake."

Flemming also claimed he developed PTSD from the incidents that took place under KF and Doyle's leadership....
Robert t green specializes in mental problems , identifying problems , developing a game plan, to make money $$$$$
 
so if all this crap is made up nonsense, Robert T. Green talking points...which it probably is for the most part … why would doyle be booted?

It's not all made up. There are some really credible people who have said some pretty damning things about Doyle.

I really think this is all just part of the process. If we want to hear from players and get their input, there's going to be good and bad. There will also be credible stories and sour grapes cases. I don't mind the stories coming out - it becomes pretty clear where there's potentially fire.

The dreads thing is a good example. A player comes out and makes accusations of being marginalized over a hairstyle and then we can go look back and see whether that holds water. The series of pics from 2002 on showing guys thriving in the program with dreads pokes serious holes in that.

This process just needs to run itself out.
 
Flemming complains about Doyle using the n-word while quoting Flemming after he himself used it twice. Sounds like some kind of privilege exists when it comes to using that awful word...

Did Doyle really use that word or was that put in for effect? I’m sure there’s some T Green coaching on what to say and how to spice it up. There’s no way of verifying that which is convenient for the accuser.
 
It's not all made up. There are some really credible people who have said some pretty damning things about Doyle.

I really think this is all just part of the process. If we want to hear from players and get their input, there's going to be good and bad. There will also be credible stories and sour grapes cases. I don't mind the stories coming out - it becomes pretty clear where there's potentially fire.

The dreads thing is a good example. A player comes out and makes accusations of being marginalized over a hairstyle and then we can go look back and see whether that holds water. The series of pics from 2002 on showing guys thriving in the program with dreads pokes serious holes in that.

This process just needs to run itself out.

I haven’t seen anything very damning against Doyle. Any examples of damning comments by credible people? Not trolling, I just haven’t seen anything that is more than “insensitive”.
 
After reading his complaints, it's kind of anticlimactic. If anyone was worried that Pre-Post Game was holding the most explosive stuff for later, it appears not. Akrum's accusations were way more harsh than the piddly little complaints Fleming has here.
 
It's not all made up. There are some really credible people who have said some pretty damning things about Doyle.

I really think this is all just part of the process. If we want to hear from players and get their input, there's going to be good and bad. There will also be credible stories and sour grapes cases. I don't mind the stories coming out - it becomes pretty clear where there's potentially fire.

The dreads thing is a good example. A player comes out and makes accusations of being marginalized over a hairstyle and then we can go look back and see whether that holds water. The series of pics from 2002 on showing guys thriving in the program with dreads pokes serious holes in that.

This process just needs to run itself out.
ok but in the meantime people get hurt in the process, like doyle. maybe a few others. I think that was the plan all along, to hurt and to destroy

I don't know of any credible damning things said about doyle now that this Robert t green character is involved. I now know of talking points and narratives which may or may not be true.
 
Personally, I think Doyle had to go because he often crossed the line from being demanding into being demeaning. As a result, some (or many) players feared his wrath more than they respected him and the culture of the program suffered for it.
he did this for 21 years allegedly -and nobody mentioned it for 21 years until now. supposedly.
 
this is what is baffling about all this

Why do people remain silent? Because they still have some positive feelings to the program, and don't think it will make any difference. I had a band instructor that was right up the alley of the movie Whiplash. Likely went over the line a few, but he was able to get results, incredible results. The school placed 1st or 2nd in the state Jazz championships something like 16 out of 20 years. I think any long term coach with incredible results is going to be a disciplinarian with extremely high expectations. I will readily admit it has been good for me, even still were some of the interaction inappropriate - absolutely yes. The biggest difference is social media, society getting rid of leaders that utilize more of the verbal abusive instruction. There was obviously some issues - you don't have this many complaints without issues. I don't think he was racist, he was an equal opportunist, however, I would say some of the african american athletes had less discipline in their lives, and I will readily admit there is likely a culture shock and Iowa needs to do a better job of allowing them to be more of themselves. At the same time you could go to any program, and my guess is these accusations are pre school in nature what has occurred at other schools. Doesn't make it right, just we have spotlight on us right now, given more time it will fade away.
 
Personally, I think Doyle had to go because he often crossed the line from being demanding into being demeaning. As a result, some (or many) players feared his wrath more than they respected him and the culture of the program suffered for it.
I wonder if this would translate into the qork world and if it applies to all people not just privileged ones.
 
I caught a few minutes of a national sports talk show, think it was Cowherd early this week where he was talking about the success of the NE Patriots. This is just his opinion but he’s convinced what separates winners & success from losers was programs & organizations that are disciplined with rules. I had to laugh out loud because that’s exactly how we are now in trouble while just posting the best 5 year run in program history, putting a large number of players into the NFL and having very few off-the-field problems. Now some disgruntled players tweet and we need to blow it up ? Whatever.
 
I caught a few minutes of a national sports talk show, think it was Cowherd early this week where he was talking about the success of the NE Patriots. This is just his opinion but he’s convinced what separates winners & success from losers was programs & organizations that are disciplined with rules. I had to laugh out loud because that’s exactly how we are now in trouble while just posting the best 5 year run in program history, putting large number of players into the NFL and having very few off-the-field problems. Now some disgruntled players tweet and we need to blow it up ? Whatever.
this. { but I think it's not actually the discipline and the rules, that these guys are complaining about. that is just a cover}
 
this. { but I think it's not actually the discipline and the rules, that these guys are complaining about. that is just a cover}

It does not matter. What is really lost here is bending your core principles. I do not agree with Cowherd at times but I agree with his opinion on this. Highly successful organizations are disciplined and set standards for all to follow regardless of anything else and you have to give up a part of yourself for the betterment of the whole. That has ALWAYS been true since the dawn of mankind.

There will always be those who think they are smarter or are lazy so they want to buck principles but rarely are they ever successful long term.

If we lower our standards at Iowa Football it will be lots of losing - mark my words. In the end no matter what a bunch of whiners and complainers say, they all want to play for a winner.

May advice is DO NOT LOWER THE BAR FOR EXCELLENCE!

Read the book Legacy by James Kerr among others.
 
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It does not matter. What is really lost here is bending your core principles. I do not agree with Cowherd at times but I agree with his opinion on this. Highly successful organizations are disciplined and set standards for all to follow regardless of anything else and you have to give up a part of yourself for the betterment of the whole. That has ALWAYS been true since the dawn of mankind.

There will always be those who think they are smarter or are lazy so they want to buck principles but rarely are they ever successful long term.

If we lower our standards at Iowa Football it will be lots of losing - mark my words. In the end no matter what a bunch of whiners and complainers say, they all want to play for a winner.

May advice is DO NOT LOWER THE BAR FOR EXCELLENCE!

Read the book Legacy by James Kerr among others.
I would agree with this and I don't think kf and barta should have bowed to the pressure and booted doyle. he seemed to be good.
 
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I haven’t seen anything very damning against Doyle. Any examples of damning comments by credible people? Not trolling, I just haven’t seen anything that is more than “insensitive”.

There's no single smoking gun of Doyle whipping a player or dropping N-bombs, but we have pretty clear evidence that Iowa went through a significant period of time where Iowa was not doing a great job retaining black players. Guys left for a lot of reasons, but it's pretty clear from listening to guys like Jaleel, James Daniels, Mike Daniels and others have indicated that a big part of the problem was Doyle.

I don't expect a S&C coach to be cuddly and be everyone's buddy, but there has to be mutual respect in order to have a productive relationship. Jordan Lomax and James Daniels were on the WUW pod this week and brought some good perspective - you get recruited by a coach responsible for your area and the position coach, you meet with KF at some point in the process and the sales job is on. Then you show up and you spend 75% of your time with Doyle, who you didn't get to know at all during recruiting outside of some quick meetings on visits. What I'm sure did Doyle in was that there was just enough of a potential racial undercurrent to some of his commentary combined with enough of a problem retaining black players that it raised legitimate questions about whether Doyle could continue to be effective in his role.
 
It does not matter. What is really lost here is bending your core principles. I do not agree with Cowherd at times but I agree with his opinion on this. Highly successful organizations are disciplined and set standards for all to follow regardless of anything else and you have to give up a part of yourself for the betterment of the whole. That has ALWAYS been true since the dawn of mankind.

There will always be those who think they are smarter or are lazy so they want to buck principles but rarely are they ever successful long term.

If we lower our standards at Iowa Football it will be lots of losing - mark my words. In the end no matter what a bunch of whiners and complainers say, they all want to play for a winner.

May advice is DO NOT LOWER THE BAR FOR EXCELLENCE!

Read the book Legacy by James Kerr among others.

I agree with maintaining the bar for excellence and I'd add that it's also important to hold our coaches to a standard as well. I think enough has come out to show that Doyle's style of motivation hasn't evolved over the years and maybe wasn't meeting that bar anymore.
 
There's no single smoking gun of Doyle whipping a player or dropping N-bombs, but we have pretty clear evidence that Iowa went through a significant period of time where Iowa was not doing a great job retaining black players. Guys left for a lot of reasons, but it's pretty clear from listening to guys like Jaleel, James Daniels, Mike Daniels and others have indicated that a big part of the problem was Doyle.

I don't expect a S&C coach to be cuddly and be everyone's buddy, but there has to be mutual respect in order to have a productive relationship. Jordan Lomax and James Daniels were on the WUW pod this week and brought some good perspective - you get recruited by a coach responsible for your area and the position coach, you meet with KF at some point in the process and the sales job is on. Then you show up and you spend 75% of your time with Doyle, who you didn't get to know at all during recruiting outside of some quick meetings on visits. What I'm sure did Doyle in was that there was just enough of a potential racial undercurrent to some of his commentary combined with enough of a problem retaining black players that it raised legitimate questions about whether Doyle could continue to be effective in his role.

I agree that I think Doyle did some dumb things and black player retention was an issue but our program set out to run an NFL style program with lots of discipline, rules and structure. If you look at the results it’s hard to argue with. All of those guys you listed are in the pros and are wealthy men.

If they care so much about their fellow black players who did not make it then use your NFL paychecks to support them. Are they doing that?
 
There's no single smoking gun of Doyle whipping a player or dropping N-bombs, but we have pretty clear evidence that Iowa went through a significant period of time where Iowa was not doing a great job retaining black players. Guys left for a lot of reasons, but it's pretty clear from listening to guys like Jaleel, James Daniels, Mike Daniels and others have indicated that a big part of the problem was Doyle.

I don't expect a S&C coach to be cuddly and be everyone's buddy, but there has to be mutual respect in order to have a productive relationship. Jordan Lomax and James Daniels were on the WUW pod this week and brought some good perspective - you get recruited by a coach responsible for your area and the position coach, you meet with KF at some point in the process and the sales job is on. Then you show up and you spend 75% of your time with Doyle, who you didn't get to know at all during recruiting outside of some quick meetings on visits. What I'm sure did Doyle in was that there was just enough of a potential racial undercurrent to some of his commentary combined with enough of a problem retaining black players that it raised legitimate questions about whether Doyle could continue to be effective in his role.
you still think this after all this Robert t green stuff is out now? seriously go to his website: he is stating on his site, what he wants to develop in peoples' minds, in athletes' minds... and it is almost word for word what these former players said about doyle.
 
There's no single smoking gun of Doyle whipping a player or dropping N-bombs, but we have pretty clear evidence that Iowa went through a significant period of time where Iowa was not doing a great job retaining black players. Guys left for a lot of reasons, but it's pretty clear from listening to guys like Jaleel, James Daniels, Mike Daniels and others have indicated that a big part of the problem was Doyle.

I don't expect a S&C coach to be cuddly and be everyone's buddy, but there has to be mutual respect in order to have a productive relationship. Jordan Lomax and James Daniels were on the WUW pod this week and brought some good perspective - you get recruited by a coach responsible for your area and the position coach, you meet with KF at some point in the process and the sales job is on. Then you show up and you spend 75% of your time with Doyle, who you didn't get to know at all during recruiting outside of some quick meetings on visits. What I'm sure did Doyle in was that there was just enough of a potential racial undercurrent to some of his commentary combined with enough of a problem retaining black players that it raised legitimate questions about whether Doyle could continue to be effective in his role.
Very well said. Agree 100
 
Why do people remain silent? Because they still have some positive feelings to the program, and don't think it will make any difference. I had a band instructor that was right up the alley of the movie Whiplash. Likely went over the line a few, but he was able to get results, incredible results. The school placed 1st or 2nd in the state Jazz championships something like 16 out of 20 years. I think any long term coach with incredible results is going to be a disciplinarian with extremely high expectations. I will readily admit it has been good for me, even still were some of the interaction inappropriate - absolutely yes. The biggest difference is social media, society getting rid of leaders that utilize more of the verbal abusive instruction. There was obviously some issues - you don't have this many complaints without issues. I don't think he was racist, he was an equal opportunist, however, I would say some of the african american athletes had less discipline in their lives, and I will readily admit there is likely a culture shock and Iowa needs to do a better job of allowing them to be more of themselves. At the same time you could go to any program, and my guess is these accusations are pre school in nature what has occurred at other schools. Doesn't make it right, just we have spotlight on us right now, given more time it will fade away.
Are we talking Mr kisor?
 
True, supposedly these things haven't been brought up until recently. That doesn't make moving forward with Doyle as part of the program viable.
I agree he is not viable because he was unfairly tossed aside. but the point being they were not brought up in 21 years because they were not invented yet out of thin air- until 2020
 
you still think this after all this Robert t green stuff is out now? seriously go to his website: he is stating on his site, what he wants to develop in peoples' minds, in athletes' minds... and it is almost word for word what these former players said about doyle.

I think the sour grapes cases are mostly what's going to Green. I think guys like Desmond King, Jordan Lomax, James Daniels, Mike Daniels, etc., have tweeted things and given interviews, but they've also communicated with KF and other coaches. Mike Daniels is chairing the committee to look into change in the program. Jordan Lomax was a guy KF brought in a couple years ago after having player retention issues. Those guys have said and done enough that they're credible to me. That a few other guys have sour grapes and go to Green doesn't undercut their position in my view.
 
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