Maybe Torbee Can Help

[markfromj]

Torbee: I THINK you are a journalist. If I have this wrong, ignore.

I've stirred up a hornet's nest in the Club Q thread by saying early reports of the Club Q shooting (e.g. WSJ article yesterday, but others too) should not have cited the bar as a LGBTQ bar, since there was no evidence at that time that the motive or intent of the shooter was to attack the LGBTQ clientele due to their sexual orientation (there is now). My feeling is that by citing this without evidence, it just reinforces the "different-ness" of the LGBTQ community, when we should be working to make that community "just" a part of the overall community.

As a journalist, what say ye here? Would you report that without evidence?

 

[alaskanseminole]

Dude! You're still banging this drum? If LGBTQ+ wasn't still fighting (daily) for equality, your argument would have merit. However, the bar (which is actually labeled as a gay & lesbian nightclub) isn't just a run-of-the-mill bar. Do you just stroll into a random bar or do you do a little 5-min google inquiry to see what the establishment is before going?

Most, if not all, in that thread agreed with you that motive shouldn't be assumed by anyone in an official journalistic capacity, but you want to keep doubling down on bar vs gay bar.

I 100% guarantee you if it was reported as just a bar, the outcry would have been "Why is the news hiding the fact this was a gay bar!?"

That said:

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

 

[fredjr82]

Torbee: I THINK you are a journalist. If I have this wrong, ignore.

I've stirred up a hornet's nest in the Club Q thread by saying early reports of the Club Q shooting (e.g. WSJ article yesterday, but others too) should not have cited the bar as a LGBTQ bar, since there was no evidence at that time that the motive or intent of the shooter was to attack the LGBTQ clientele due to their sexual orientation (there is now). My feeling is that by citing this without evidence, it just reinforces the "different-ness" of the LGBTQ community, when we should be working to make that community "just" a part of the overall community.

As a journalist, what say ye here? Would you report that without evidence?

If it was a Catholic Church, should they not say as much until the intent was determined they were going after Catholics?

Just because it hurts your side of the argument doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported. You chose which side you stood with. Live with it.

 

[Colonoscopy]

Depends on the event. In a mass shooting situation -- which are relatively unusual events, often with unique circumstances -- you probably want to include details like the sort of bar it is because that might speak to motives.

But if there was simply a shooting at a gay bar? I don't think you elevate that above other one off shootings at bars or the like, and the fact that it was a gay bar likely doesn't say that much, so the distinction isn't as necessary.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Umm sorry but the type of bar is important to the story.

If someone bombs a church should the news just report it as a "place of worship"???

Not only is the fact that it's a church important but the type of church is important to the story. Be that if it's a white evangelical church or a black church or a mainline protestant or a Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox.

 

[fredjr82]

It would be interesting to know how many bars/clubs he passed on the way to Club Q...

Nailed it. /thread OP

 

[alaskanseminole]

Nailed it. /thread OP

Did @NoleATL delete that comment? I was going to respond as well.

If traveling from the south, he'd have passed Copperhead Road Bar & Nightclub, Latin Quarters or possibly Adams Apple Lounge from the North/NW, and 3 or 4 churches from the East.

 

[bhawk24bob]

I had a friend growing up whose grandmother used to tell us "when you think everybody is crazy and nobody understands you, you're crazy"

And she did in fact have a condition where the doctors told her she was crazy

 

[BelemNole]

I had a friend growing up whose grandmother used to tell us "when you think everybody is crazy and nobody understands you, you're crazy"

And she did in fact have a condition where the doctors told her she was crazy

 

[Colonoscopy]

Torbee: I THINK you are a journalist. If I have this wrong, ignore.

I've stirred up a hornet's nest in the Club Q thread by saying early reports of the Club Q shooting (e.g. WSJ article yesterday, but others too) should not have cited the bar as a LGBTQ bar, since there was no evidence at that time that the motive or intent of the shooter was to attack the LGBTQ clientele due to their sexual orientation (there is now). My feeling is that by citing this without evidence, it just reinforces the "different-ness" of the LGBTQ community, when we should be working to make that community "just" a part of the overall community.

As a journalist, what say ye here? Would you report that without evidence?

The decision to include that bit of information, and more specifically, how much of a focus should that be in coverage, really depends on the event.

What you don't want to do is mislead.

That happened quite a bit during the "racial reckoning" of 2020 on outlets like CNN. The topic was hot -- especially amongst left leaning news -- they could capitalize on it, and they did.

The problem is that it led to a lot of not-so-helpful headlines like "White cop kills black man" and a lot of times there was no justification for the headline when you actually got to know the event better -- it wasn't reasonable to assume it was a race based problem. The media was misleading.

And so I'd say the same about LGBTQ bar stuff -- if we have decent reason to believe the event may have been connected to anti-gay sentiment, then weave that into the story as appropriate.

But don't mislead.

(of course, ultimately, I think this all goes back to journalism for the sake of capitalization -- give your readership what they want or go out of business, you've got your silo, you know what plays well... go do it)

 

[fredjr82]

Did @NoleATL delete that comment? I was going to respond as well.

If traveling from the south, he'd have passed Copperhead Road Bar & Nightclub, Latin Quarters or possibly Adams Apple Lounge from the North/NW, and 3 or 4 churches from the East.

No it was from @RNHawk "all religion is dumb" thread where he tried to further himself and the other mouth breathers from the shooter.

 

[BelemNole]

The decision to include that bit of information, and more specifically, how much of a focus should that be in coverage, really depends on the event.

What you don't want to do is mislead.

That happened quite a bit during the "racial reckoning" of 2020 on outlets like CNN. The topic was hot -- especially amongst left leaning news -- they could capitalize on it, and they did.

The problem is that it led to a lot of not-so-helpful headlines like "White cop kills black man" and a lot of times there was no justification for the headline when you actually got to know the event better -- it wasn't reasonable to assume it was a race based problem. The media was misleading.

And so I'd say the same about LGBTQ bar stuff -- if we have decent reason to believe the event may have been connected to anti-gay sentiment, then weave that into the story as appropriate.

But don't mislead.

(of course, ultimately, I think this all goes back to journalism for the sake of capitalization -- give your readership what they want or go out of business, you've got your silo, you know what plays well... go do it)

Right, if the shooting in the bar appeared to be a robbery or a domestic situation then the fact that it's a gay bar isn't relevant. If a guy shows up in body armor and a long gun and starts spraying....

 

[Funky Bunch]

Should journalists also not describe the people killed in Idaho as college students either?

 

[BelemNole]

Should journalists also not describe the people killed in Idaho as college students either?

4 genderless humanoids were de-lifed in a commonly sized western state - news at 11!

 

[markfromj]

I’ve responded to much of this in the Club Q thread. I might respond to posts there.

But here, I want to hear from only Torbee (or other journalists).

 

[Fan In Black]

torbee is good at writing stories about football

 

[McLovin32]

Lol OP creates new thread about his idiotic view point and continues getting pwned. I love HORT.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

torbee is good at writing stories about football

Well…it IS Tuesday.

 

[torbee]

Torbee: I THINK you are a journalist. If I have this wrong, ignore.

I've stirred up a hornet's nest in the Club Q thread by saying early reports of the Club Q shooting (e.g. WSJ article yesterday, but others too) should not have cited the bar as a LGBTQ bar, since there was no evidence at that time that the motive or intent of the shooter was to attack the LGBTQ clientele due to their sexual orientation (there is now). My feeling is that by citing this without evidence, it just reinforces the "different-ness" of the LGBTQ community, when we should be working to make that community "just" a part of the overall community.

As a journalist, what say ye here? Would you report that without evidence?

Ex-journalist and editor, who still does some freelance work.

I think it is a relevant detail. In fact, I always instructed my reporters to include as much detail as possible in all stories. If it were a "biker bar" put that in there. If it is an "upscale club" put that in there. In my opinion, you can't really err on the side of including too much information as long as that info is vetted and accurate.

Based on all the quotes from every witness I've seen, the Colorado Springs LGBTQ community is pretty tightknit and have always viewed Club Q as a regular gathering spot. I think that's relevant and adds a dimension to the story.

I will say, I don't think your question is stupid or deserves mocking. It kind of parallels thoughts on when and whether to ever use the names of alleged sexual assault victims. I have also noticed more and more outlets are NOT naming mass shooting suspect names, as there is some thought that encourages copycats or people looking for notoriety. All these types of issues change and evolve over time.

 

[alaskanseminole]

torbee is good at writing stories about football

but what if it was foosball at a gay nightclub?

 

[FAUlty Gator]

Ex-journalist and editor, who still does some freelance work.

I think it is a relevant detail. In fact, I always instructed my students to include as much detail as possible in all stories. If it were a "biker bar" put that in there. If it is an "upscale club" put that up there. In my opinion, you can't really err on the side of including too much information as long as that info is vetted and accurate.

Based on all the quotes from every witness I've seen, the Colorado Springs LGBTQ community is pretty tightknit and have always viewed Club Q as a regular gathering spot. I think that's relevant and adds a dimension to the story.

Please stop calling the kids you buy beer for behind the Sev “your students”. Thanks.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I think it is a relevant detail. In fact, I always instructed my students to include as much detail as possible in all stories. If it were a "biker bar" put that in there. If it is an "upscale club" put that up there. In my opinion, you can't really err on the side of including too much information as long as that info is vetted and accurate.

Based on all the quotes from every witness I've seen, the Colorado Springs LGBTQ community is pretty tightknit and have always viewed Club Q as a regular gathering spot. I think that's relevant and adds a dimension to the story.

And that's the key. 👆

Motive (at the time of the incident)? Not able to be vetted for accuracy.
LGBTQ+ nightclub? Easily vetted and most certainly accurate.

/thread

 

[torbee]

Please stop calling the kids you buy beer for behind the Sev “your students”. Thanks.

Was a Freudian slip, I was actually referring to my ex Press-Citizen reporters -- all of whom were in their 20s and felt like students to me. In my defense, I was the newspaper adviser and an adjunct professor at a junior college for five years.

 

[markfromj]

Ex-journalist and editor, who still does some freelance work.

I think it is a relevant detail. In fact, I always instructed my reporters to include as much detail as possible in all stories. If it were a "biker bar" put that in there. If it is an "upscale club" put that in there. In my opinion, you can't really err on the side of including too much information as long as that info is vetted and accurate.

Based on all the quotes from every witness I've seen, the Colorado Springs LGBTQ community is pretty tightknit and have always viewed Club Q as a regular gathering spot. I think that's relevant and adds a dimension to the story.

I will say, I don't think your question is stupid or deserves mocking. It kind of parallels thoughts on when and whether to ever use the names of alleged sexual assault victims. I have also noticed more and more outlets are NOT naming mass shooting suspect names, as there is some thought that encourages copycats or people looking for notoriety. All these types of issues change and evolve over time.

Thanks, Torbee.