ADVERTISEMENT

Michigan and officiating

Nov 9, 2007
1,696
4,025
113
Remember that one time when Iowa was called for offensive interference against Michigan on a questionable call? (yes I know the play was still short of a first down)
This appears inconsistent with that call, again benefitting Michigan...

Makes you wonder how badly the Big Ten wants the Big Game to be a big game? Or maybe it's just incompetence from the refs. YOU make the call.
 
Referees are beyond reproach. Horrible for anyone to suggest there might be corruption going on...

90
 
Remember that one time when Iowa was called for offensive interference against Michigan on a questionable call? (yes I know the play was still short of a first down)
This appears inconsistent with that call, again benefitting Michigan...

Makes you wonder how badly the Big Ten wants the Big Game to be a big game? Or maybe it's just incompetence from the refs. YOU make the call.
Technically that is a pick play OR is the defender playing bump and run with the receiver who does not end up catching the ball. Not sure if the official even was looking at it because he is watching the LOS for offsides, false starts, etc. Of course it also really benefited the Hawks. At the snap the line judge and the side judge are watching but who knows. I think it is also human nature to sort of let some things go to even give each team a benefit of reasonable doubt.

Bielema was pissed at halftime of that game during his short interview with the sideline TV reporter and basically saying shit like "phantom holding calls" etc which should get him fined. He doesnt have much room to talk because the hawks against Bert had a scoop and score reversed on a pretty iffy review.

Also, Bielema basically had a 3 game lead on the hawks and then he got beat at home by the lowly spartans who lost saturday at home to Indiana. Look in the mirror Bert
 
  • Like
Reactions: sober_teacher
I think the fix has been in all year. It is just way way too enticing for the B1G to want to have an undefeated Michigan play an undefeated OSU in the last game of the year.

Just take the Iowa game. The clip, the hold on Dunker, the personal foul on Jones and of course the pick play that wasn't anywhere close to as egregious as what Michigan did to Illinois, were all calls that totally impacted the game tremendously. We shot ourselves in the foot with not even throwing to the first down on that that phantom pick play, but, the flag came in nonetheless to prevent it from happening.
 
I think the fix has been in all year. It is just way way too enticing for the B1G to want to have an undefeated Michigan play an undefeated OSU in the last game of the year.

Just take the Iowa game. The clip, the hold on Dunker, the personal foul on Jones and of course the pick play that wasn't anywhere close to as egregious as what Michigan did to Illinois, were all calls that totally impacted the game tremendously. We shot ourselves in the foot with not even throwing to the first down on that that phantom pick play, but, the flag came in nonetheless to prevent it from happening.
if i recall correctly. in the iowa game there was also a egregious interception (by michigan) that wasn't -- ball seen hitting the ground clearly by every viewer. that game was a hit job in my book.
 
Technically that is a pick play OR is the defender playing bump and run with the receiver who does not end up catching the ball. Not sure if the official even was looking at it because he is watching the LOS for offsides, false starts, etc. Of course it also really benefited the Hawks. At the snap the line judge and the side judge are watching but who knows. I think it is also human nature to sort of let some things go to even give each team a benefit of reasonable doubt.

Bielema was pissed at halftime of that game during his short interview with the sideline TV reporter and basically saying shit like "phantom holding calls" etc which should get him fined. He doesnt have much room to talk because the hawks against Bert had a scoop and score reversed on a pretty iffy review.

Also, Bielema basically had a 3 game lead on the hawks and then he got beat at home by the lowly spartans who lost saturday at home to Indiana. Look in the mirror Bert
yea thats right... I was trying to remember what play and what game that was that Iowa got ... you know what... out of a defensive touchdown...
so that's 2 Touchdowns Iowa got... you know what.. out of
 
I try not to buy into conspiracies, but McCarthy's knee was down and he had his hand on the ball...he grabs it...rolls right and makes a huge play. Then you get the obvious WR pick on the most important play of the game. That was an easy call...ref right there...and he swallowed his whistle.

The Big Ten wants Michigan and Ohio State undefeated going into this weekend. Close calls go to the undefeated team. In addition, if Iowa does get to the championship...we ain't getting anything close and they will mug our receivers. That's football.
 
OSU and Michigan will always get the calls because the B1G has become nothing but a money League especially in Football, Those Refs paychecks depend on keeping the B1G offices happy . I have seen too many calls to stop an underdog against both Teams over the Years to be swayed otherwise.
 
I try not to buy into conspiracies, but McCarthy's knee was down and he had his hand on the ball...he grabs it...rolls right and makes a huge play. Then you get the obvious WR pick on the most important play of the game. That was an easy call...ref right there...and he swallowed his whistle.

The Big Ten wants Michigan and Ohio State undefeated going into this weekend. Close calls go to the undefeated team. In addition, if Iowa does get to the championship...we ain't getting anything close and they will mug our receivers. That's football.

Also the blatant drop by the Michigan receiver to set up the FG at the end. Reviewed and still stood as a catch. Yep that shit was rigged no doubt
 
no conspiracy theory from me but we always have said how the helmets are worth 7-10 pts a game, when you play the bluebloods they have the best talent and they tend to get the most non calls.

Jim Walden said one time before he was going to play Neb. around the 8th or 9th game one year---the stat is Neb. has had 2 holding calls all year--hell--we get 2 a half---pretty funny--and when Walden was there Neb. was probably 90% running team as well.

I think the Mich game this yr was the perfect example--zero calls against Mich and their o line while we racked up like 6 major penalties--and that late flag on Jones when we had the big play to the like 2 yd line was classic as well.

just have to be at your best and play thru these things
 
  • Like
Reactions: WadeLookingbill
Also the blatant drop by the Michigan receiver to set up the FG at the end. Reviewed and still stood as a catch. Yep that shit was rigged no doubt
That was a terrible call, and made even worse by the fact it essentially gave Michigan a timeout when reviewed. If that was upheld/stood as called, the fumble return against Illinois for the Hawks sure as shit should have stood as called. Just no consistency.
 
Remember that one time when Iowa was called for offensive interference against Michigan on a questionable call? (yes I know the play was still short of a first down)
This appears inconsistent with that call, again benefitting Michigan...

Makes you wonder how badly the Big Ten wants the Big Game to be a big game? Or maybe it's just incompetence from the refs. YOU make the call.
We were watching that before the IA/MN game last Saturday. About six of us all looked at each other at the same time and said, "Hey, wait...wasn't that a penalty they called against us when WE played Michigan?"
 
Last edited:
no conspiracy theory from me but we always have said how the helmets are worth 7-10 pts a game, when you play the bluebloods they have the best talent and they tend to get the most non calls.

Jim Walden said one time before he was going to play Neb. around the 8th or 9th game one year---the stat is Neb. has had 2 holding calls all year--hell--we get 2 a half---pretty funny--and when Walden was there Neb. was probably 90% running team as well.

I think the Mich game this yr was the perfect example--zero calls against Mich and their o line while we racked up like 6 major penalties--and that late flag on Jones when we had the big play to the like 2 yd line was classic as well.

just have to be at your best and play thru these things
<<Just have to be at your best and play thru these things>>

The problem is, you can't "play thru" what I call "The Globetrotter rule". In Globetrotter games, the opponent is "required" to give up 10 "show baskets" each game, but other than that, it's "wide open competition". You can't, of course, overcome a 20-point deficit most times. And that's what B1G teams face when playing O$U and scUM.
 
Technically that is a pick play OR is the defender playing bump and run with the receiver who does not end up catching the ball. Not sure if the official even was looking at it because he is watching the LOS for offsides, false starts, etc. Of course it also really benefited the Hawks. At the snap the line judge and the side judge are watching but who knows. I think it is also human nature to sort of let some things go to even give each team a benefit of reasonable doubt.

Bielema was pissed at halftime of that game during his short interview with the sideline TV reporter and basically saying shit like "phantom holding calls" etc which should get him fined. He doesnt have much room to talk because the hawks against Bert had a scoop and score reversed on a pretty iffy review.

Also, Bielema basically had a 3 game lead on the hawks and then he got beat at home by the lowly spartans who lost saturday at home to Indiana. Look in the mirror Bert
Absolutely no part of the Moss touchdown review was iffy. Sitkowski's elbow was clearly down with possession of the ball. Live in reality dude
 
Just some insight on the play Michigan ran vs Illinois. I am a high school defensive coach and we see this play a lot on film. Essentially it is a quick out where the receiver goes right along the LOS. As long as the ball is thrown behind the LOS it is a screen pass.

Disclaimer: the Michigan receiver appears to have been a couple yards in front of the LOS but I believe the design should have been as I described
 
I try not to buy into conspiracies, but McCarthy's knee was down and he had his hand on the ball...he grabs it...rolls right and makes a huge play. Then you get the obvious WR pick on the most important play of the game. That was an easy call...ref right there...and he swallowed his whistle.

The Big Ten wants Michigan and Ohio State undefeated going into this weekend. Close calls go to the undefeated team. In addition, if Iowa does get to the championship...we ain't getting anything close and they will mug our receivers. That's football.
I have been saying this for years and put up with the conspiracy theorist accusation. Noticed a definite increase in the numbers of posters starting to see the effect of the officiating and the strategic nature of the "mistakes."

First, dishonest or perhaps it's cousin, strategically placed officiating and scheduling (also dishonest, just not so overtly) should not be surprising. The Big Ten is a multibillion-dollar commercial enterprise. Doesn't every commercial enterprise seek to deliver its product in the most profitable manner possible? Of course. Doesn't every billion and above commercial enterprise seek to manipulate its market to generate the maximum profit? I mean, we've all heard of Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Berkshire Hathaway, Haliburton, Bear Stearns, Baine Capital, UBS, etc.. Why should anyone expect the Big Ten to behave differently?

Second, believe your eyes, not what other people tell you. How many of us watched the officials do whatever was necessary for Indiana to win. Bob Knight owned the Big Ten because his product line was very profitable. How many times did we watch an Indiana big man sneak up on a defender and block the defender in the back? Not even legal in football. Us geezers saw Indiana throw the ball directly into the pressers face, AFTER Bob Knight said that was the best way to break a press. Then, to prevent a reoccurrence of that dirty play the B!G passed another rule making it explicitly a technical foul. Indiana did it again the next season and the officials not only failed to call a T on the ball thrower, but they also called a T on the victim, claiming he threw a punch.

No one thought that live and the replay showed Kent Hill did nothing put stick his hand and arm and point (or maybe they thought it was a Three Stooges eye poke) directly at the guy that threw the ball in his face. Veteran and well-known officials both times. The 4th down jump against Purdue that wasn't called a couple of years ago. No official, and most certainly not a replay official, could have seen what vividly did not happen. How do you explain that collective bit of ****ery if not through gambling or a larger game fixing scheme?

We could all write pages on the strange calls that went against Iowa. The last 3 games of the 81 season produced the most corrupt stretch of officiating ever seen in college BBall. So don't try to find explanations for what are obviously egregiously wrong calls or no calls when you know there really isn't any.

Third, review the games in your head. How often does a "poorly" officiating game see all or most of the "errors" benefit the higher profile and, perhaps more importantly, more profitable team/school? Like Michigan/Illinois. In whose financial interest is an Illinois victory more important than a top five match up for the B!g Title game and a probable shot at the playoffs? Anyone? It's not really even in Illinois' financial interest given the revenue sharing model. All that money certainly incentivizes every school to favor the status quo and disincentivizes too many actual complaints by the member institutions.

Four, the continuous use of the same officials, making the same "mistakes", some of which belie any credible explanation but dishonesty. I mean where else in life can one say they didn't see something that a video replay shows they could not have seen anything else or caught looking directly at the play why making the exactly wrong call. Drivers don't get that discretion. Where else in life can the same people making the same mistakes without any apparent improvement in performance be retained, sometimes for decades. Since nothing ever changes, no one ever gets fired and recognition of any errors comes once in a blue moon, certainly the law, and common sense would understand the B!G officials are doing exactly what their bosses want done. After 40 or 50 years of the same complaints, not just fans but media people as well, and nothing changes what other conclusions are possible.

Five, the David Stern NBA model. The NBA was dying. David Stern saved it through WWE wrestling marketing. Make sure the right teams won, got the best trades and free agents and keep the most lucrative markets in as long as possible. He advised the NFL to do the same when he was brought in for advice on the NFL free agency model, when it was first created. That's season fixing and Stern made no bones about it.

Six, it would be easy to do and easy to camouflage. No two people would ever really need to discuss anything I've mentioned. Maybe two or three at most. Remember the Big Ten has a century old culture so most new people just do what the people before them did.

The officials all know what the B!G wants. Some, probably most, wouldn't intentionally engage in devious corporate piracy. Some could just be easy tells. Guy thinks Dwight Howard's a thug. Make sure that guy officiates games that Michigan shouldn't win. Another guy hates Fran, think he's a dick. Make sure that guy officiates Iowa in our big games. And so on. Some guys, again probably most officials,

Finally, a sign of our times. I mean this in a nonpartisan way. Does anybody not think that almost every major institution of American life is corrupt at this time in our history? Everyone is screaming about something they think is corrupt, and for the most part everybody is more right than they think.
That's football really is a brief way of conceding everything I said above. It's football because that's exactly how businesses operate.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: F5n5 and Pawkhawk1
Absolutely no part of the Moss touchdown review was iffy. Sitkowski's elbow was clearly down with possession of the ball. Live in reality dude
Which TV angle are you talking about that showed the ball clearly in his hand? If you are talking about the line of sight view from the back of the endzone that was viewing the back of the QBs hand then that does not prove anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F5n5
I try not to buy into conspiracies, but McCarthy's knee was down and he had his hand on the ball...he grabs it...rolls right and makes a huge play. Then you get the obvious WR pick on the most important play of the game. That was an easy call...ref right there...and he swallowed his whistle.

The Big Ten wants Michigan and Ohio State undefeated going into this weekend. Close calls go to the undefeated team. In addition, if Iowa does get to the championship...we ain't getting anything close and they will mug our receivers. That's football.
I thought Illinois got the short end of a few calls, but the "pick" everyone is talking about I didn't think was offensive interference. They bring the guy in motion stacked right behind the receiver in front of him. Illinois plays it kind of odd, with two defenders right behind each other. The Michigan WR closest to the LOS just runs straight ahead while the DB latches on to him. In doing so, the DB behind him is nowhere near to playing the out.

Most of the time the defense will play that two-man bunch by bracketing it with both DB's close to the LOS, so that they can take whichever receiver comes to that side.

Michigan literally had almost no incentive to win that game. Lose it and then win the next week against OSU and they are in the Big Ten title game and if they win the title game they are in the playoff. They sat out multiple starters with nagging injuries and probably wish they had sat Corum. Illinois blew its chance with the home losses to Michigan State and Purdue. Illinois also lost to a terrible Indiana team. Just incredible. Illinois, Minnesota and Purdue all had very favorable cross-overs, each had one "difficult" crossover compared to Iowa playing Michigan and OSU. And still they all are likely to finish behind Iowa. Just staggering that Illinois might lose the division because they lost to Michigan State and Indiana.
 
For years Michigan has gotten the no call or call l in their favor at a crucial time against every team not named OSU. I call it Michigand. UM fans are so used to it they just expect it
 
I thought Illinois got the short end of a few calls, but the "pick" everyone is talking about I didn't think was offensive interference. They bring the guy in motion stacked right behind the receiver in front of him. Illinois plays it kind of odd, with two defenders right behind each other. The Michigan WR closest to the LOS just runs straight ahead while the DB latches on to him. In doing so, the DB behind him is nowhere near to playing the out.

Most of the time the defense will play that two-man bunch by bracketing it with both DB's close to the LOS, so that they can take whichever receiver comes to that side.

Michigan literally had almost no incentive to win that game. Lose it and then win the next week against OSU and they are in the Big Ten title game and if they win the title game they are in the playoff. They sat out multiple starters with nagging injuries and probably wish they had sat Corum. Illinois blew its chance with the home losses to Michigan State and Purdue. Illinois also lost to a terrible Indiana team. Just incredible. Illinois, Minnesota and Purdue all had very favorable cross-overs, each had one "difficult" crossover compared to Iowa playing Michigan and OSU. And still they all are likely to finish behind Iowa. Just staggering that Illinois might lose the division because they lost to Michigan State and Indiana.
That "pick" was a penalty on Iowa when the Iowa receiver was grabbed and pulled by the Michigan defender.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F5n5 and Pawkhawk1
I think the fix has been in all year. It is just way way too enticing for the B1G to want to have an undefeated Michigan play an undefeated OSU in the last game of the year.

Just take the Iowa game. The clip, the hold on Dunker, the personal foul on Jones and of course the pick play that wasn't anywhere close to as egregious as what Michigan did to Illinois, were all calls that totally impacted the game tremendously. We shot ourselves in the foot with not even throwing to the first down on that that phantom pick play, but, the flag came in nonetheless to prevent it from happening.
Jones was blocking a guy way too hard. C'mon now.
 
I kinda hope we get them in the BTCG and can find some way to punch their lights out. Make it so the refs can't decide it for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F5n5
I really hate these discussions. I love college football and basketball, but it seems that the vast majority of fans believe that the fix is in. It casts a shadow over the entire sport.

Some questions -

1. Why do referees work for conferences? Why don't they work for the NCAA or some other independent organization contracted by the NCAA to work games?

2. If you are a B1G ref, how does the corruption work? Are their under the table bonuses? Do refs get fired if they make a call against a "favored" team? I mean, it's not like they have to worry about getting paid - the B1G has unlimited money.

3. If the coaches feel the same way as the fans, then why don't they getting together with their AD's and Presidents and do something about it?

I'm not sure which is more absurd in this discussion - that the B1G is actively trying to influence the results of games or that no one is doing anything about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WWDMHawkeye
I really hate these discussions. I love college football and basketball, but it seems that the vast majority of fans believe that the fix is in. It casts a shadow over the entire sport.

Some questions -

1. Why do referees work for conferences? Why don't they work for the NCAA or some other independent organization contracted by the NCAA to work games?

2. If you are a B1G ref, how does the corruption work? Are their under the table bonuses? Do refs get fired if they make a call against a "favored" team? I mean, it's not like they have to worry about getting paid - the B1G has unlimited money.

3. If the coaches feel the same way as the fans, then why don't they getting together with their AD's and Presidents and do something about it?

I'm not sure which is more absurd in this discussion - that the B1G is actively trying to influence the results of games or that no one is doing anything about it.
When you have Bret Beliema saying stuff like that you have to pay some attention to it.
 
no conspiracy theory from me but we always have said how the helmets are worth 7-10 pts a game, when you play the bluebloods they have the best talent and they tend to get the most non calls.

Jim Walden said one time before he was going to play Neb. around the 8th or 9th game one year---the stat is Neb. has had 2 holding calls all year--hell--we get 2 a half---pretty funny--and when Walden was there Neb. was probably 90% running team as well.

I think the Mich game this yr was the perfect example--zero calls against Mich and their o line while we racked up like 6 major penalties--and that late flag on Jones when we had the big play to the like 2 yd line was classic as well.

just have to be at your best and play thru these things
Kinda like in basketball when certain coaches are much better at working the refs than other coaches.
 
Absolutely no part of the Moss touchdown review was iffy. Sitkowski's elbow was clearly down with possession of the ball. Live in reality dude
Disagree. There wasn’t a sufficient view to know if the ball was coming loose before the elbow touched. There was one angle that suggested the ball was indeed coming loose but it wasn’t definitive. There wasn’t indisputable video evidence to overturn the call, just as there wouldn’t have been indisputable video evidence to overturn the call if he had been called down before the fumble.

Only a loss of possession (i.e., any shifting of the ball) is required before the elbow touching to constitute a fumble. There seems to be a misperception that the ballcarrier has to actually drop the ball. In any case, there wasn’t indisputable evidence to justify an overturn. It was a lazy job by the review official. For those fans still unconvinced, go back and closely review the available video angles and ask yourself if you can be 100% sure that the ball wasn’t shifting before the elbow touched. You can’t be, and that’s the standard for overturning the call.

It’s obviously water under the bridge and fortunately didn’t cost the Hawks a West title as long as they take care of business on Friday, but the call still shouldn’t have been overturned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F5n5
I thought Illinois got the short end of a few calls, but the "pick" everyone is talking about I didn't think was offensive interference. They bring the guy in motion stacked right behind the receiver in front of him. Illinois plays it kind of odd, with two defenders right behind each other. The Michigan WR closest to the LOS just runs straight ahead while the DB latches on to him. In doing so, the DB behind him is nowhere near to playing the out.

Most of the time the defense will play that two-man bunch by bracketing it with both DB's close to the LOS, so that they can take whichever receiver comes to that side.

Michigan literally had almost no incentive to win that game. Lose it and then win the next week against OSU and they are in the Big Ten title game and if they win the title game they are in the playoff. They sat out multiple starters with nagging injuries and probably wish they had sat Corum. Illinois blew its chance with the home losses to Michigan State and Purdue. Illinois also lost to a terrible Indiana team. Just incredible. Illinois, Minnesota and Purdue all had very favorable cross-overs, each had one "difficult" crossover compared to Iowa playing Michigan and OSU. And still they all are likely to finish behind Iowa. Just staggering that Illinois might lose the division because they lost to Michigan State and Indiana.
Wrong. It was an illegal pick play. As another poster stated, the only way that play is legal is if the ball is thrown behind the LOS and then it is considered a screen pass. The ball was thrown about 2.5 yards past the LOS and should have been a really easy call. Also, keep in mind that the rules state that it is the responsibility of the receiver to avoid contact with the defender.

So in comparing Michigan's pick play vs. Iowa's pick play, by the rule book both were technically pick plays. While where the ball is thrown if it is past the LOS or not is a black and white thing, the contact is much more subjective. I think it was obvious in Michigan's pick play that it was designed that way from the get go because the Michigan receiver that is making the pick never attempts to look back for the ball. He immediately engages to block and drive the defender backwards in order to create space. In Iowa's pick play, Bruce sold it much better by initially appearing to run a slant and looking back at the QB. But, Petras threw a terrible ball 1 yard past the LOS and thus technically it was an illegal pick play.

Conversely though, on Iowa's pick play, the subjective determination from the official is whether or not the offensive player tried to block or whether the defensive player committed a holding penalty. The result is by all accounts and it is not even close that Michigan ran an illegal pick play and would have been called a very high percentage of the time. In Iowa's case it was very subjective and definitely not nearly as egregious as Michigan's was.

You have to ask yourself if the teams were flipped, what would the call be? Of course there is no way to know for sure, but, if I am betting I am going to say that if it were Illinois running that play on 4th and 3 they are going to get called for the illegal pick about 99.9% of the time. If Michigan were trying to come back on us and and make it 20-14 and they ran the exact same play (with an actual completed throw for a first down) that there would be no flag about 90% of the time and if the throw was not successful there would be a defensive hold called about 60% of the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F5n5
I don’t want to believe it, but, I’ve had thoughts along those lines for several years. It scares me that it might be true, but money talks. Always follow the money.
Guys can be on the take so easily nowadays. Disheartening, but you know it happens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kcgolfer
ADVERTISEMENT