Michigan Coach Jim Harbaugh Speaks at Anti-Abortion Event

cigaretteman

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Jim Harbaugh, the University of Michigan’s head football coach, professed his anti-abortion views at a fund-raising event this week, becoming one of the first prominent sports figures to speak out against abortion since Roe v. Wade was overturned.
“I believe in having the courage to let the unborn be born,” Harbaugh said at the event, according to Detroit Catholic, a news service for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Detroit. “I love life. I believe in having a loving care and respect for life and death. My faith and my science are what drive these beliefs in me.”
Harbaugh and his wife, Sarah, were speaking at a Plymouth Right to Life event in Plymouth, Mich., on Sunday, according to the organization’s website. A priest from the archdiocese delivered a keynote address titled “We Were Made to Be Courageous” before the Harbaughs gave what the group called “pro-life testimony.”
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Harbaugh, who is Catholic and quoted a Bible verse during his remarks, said he had faith in the American public to develop the right policies and laws regarding abortion.

“Yes, there are conflicts between the legitimate rights of the mother and the rights of the unborn child,” he said. “One resolution might involve incredible hardship for the mother, family and society. Another results in the death of an unborn person.”

After the Supreme Court ended the constitutional right to abortion last month, several prominent athletes, including the soccer star Megan Rapinoe, criticized the ruling. Until Harbaugh’s speech this week, few sports personalities had spoken publicly against abortion.
Harbaugh’s opinion runs counter to what the interim president of the University of Michigan, Mary Sue Coleman, said after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. The day of that ruling, she said, “I strongly support access to abortion services, and I will do everything in my power as president to ensure we continue to provide this critically important care.”
Abortion is currently legal in Michigan but is being contested in the courts, with a judge blocking the enforcement of a 1931 law that bans most abortions from taking effect. Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, filed a lawsuit to stop the ban.



Harbaugh declined an interview through a spokesman for the University of Michigan’s football team. Rick Fitzgerald, a spokesman for the university, said: “Jim Harbaugh attended an event and shared his personal views as any citizen has the constitutional right to do. He was sharing his personal beliefs and not speaking on behalf of the university.”

As news of Harbaugh’s remarks spread, journalists and Michigan alumni discussed them online, sometimes heatedly.
Jemele Hill, a writer for The Atlantic who used to work for ESPN and is from Detroit, criticized the views that Harbaugh presented. “This might be a difficult concept for Jim Harbaugh” or “any anti-choice person to grasp,” she wrote on Twitter, “but if you don’t want an abortion, just don’t get one. Not that hard.”
Clay Travis, who founded the sports and culture website Outkick, said it was not consistent for journalists to complain after Harbaugh presented his views.
“The same sports media that always argues, ‘Hey, we want everybody to share their political beliefs — speak out as much as you want,’ is going to absolutely rip Jim Harbaugh to shreds because he has a different opinion than they do on abortion,” Travis said in a video posted on Twitter.
Harbaugh has coached at Michigan for seven seasons after turning around the football program at Stanford and leading the San Francisco 49ers to a Super Bowl appearance. He was a quarterback in the N.F.L. for 14 years before moving into the coaching ranks and has not been shy about voicing his opinions.
After George Floyd was murdered by a Minneapolis police officer, Harbaugh marched in a rally against police brutality held in Ann Arbor, Mich. He previously coached Colin Kaepernick, the 49ers quarterback who became the center of a firestorm when he stopped standing for the national anthem to protest what Kaepernick called “a country that oppresses Black people and people of color.” Harbaugh said then that he supported Kaepernick’s motivation but took exception to his method of action.
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According to Detroit Catholic, the priest at the anti-abortion event in Plymouth, the Rev. John Riccardo, said he hoped there were people in the audience who supported abortion rights but had attended because of Harbaugh’s presence.
“I want you to know that you are very welcome here,” said the priest, who graduated from Michigan. “We are so glad that you came and simply want to ask God to help us see reality.”

 

sober_teacher

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Why? Do you know when a fetus becomes a life? I would rather error on the side of protecting all innocent life.

A fetus becomes a life at the point it can survive outside the womb, roughly 24 weeks for the most part. It’s pretty darn easy for doctors today to take a look at the fetus with all of the available equipment we have now to make that determination.
 

Finance85

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The part of the rights of the unborn argument to me that I can’t get past, is giving rights to the fetus prior to it being viable outside the womb.
I can support that notion. That's actually consistent with Casey, and many state statutes on abortion. At what week out of 39 is viability? I apparently arrived at week 32 according to my mom. I was viable, though some would undoubtedly argue I didn't arrive quite right.
 

Tom Paris

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The part of the rights of the unborn argument to me that I can’t get past, is giving rights to the fetus prior to it being viable outside the womb.
Or it has more rights than an actual human being. The woman literally has to suffer before a doctor can save her life. Not to mention forced birth on little girls. How freaking sick are these people?!?! How can anyone be okay with making girls who have been raped birth a child??? Pro life my ass.
 

LuciousBDragon

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A fetus becomes a life at the point it can survive outside the womb, roughly 24 weeks for the most part.

Is this statement a medical definition that is generally accepted by global medical experts? Or, is it an opinion?

I am not saying you are right or wrong, rather just point out how complicated this conversation can be when the crux of the matter lacks definition.

Additionally, as each year passes, neo-natal care improves and it is amazing what can be done for < 20 weeks fetus now. Not that it applies in all cases, but is fascinating how viability in early 2nd trimester is possible.
 
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cjr1310

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Is this statement a medical definition that is generally accepted by global medical experts? Or, is it an opinion?

I am not saying you are right or wrong, rather just point out how complicated this conversation can be when the crux of the matter lacks definition.

Additionally, as each year passes, neo-natal care improves and it is amazing what can be done for < 20 weeks fetus now. Not that it applies in all cases, but is fascinating how viability in early 2nd trimester is possible.
24 weeks had long been considered the point of viability but you’re correct that that is falling somewhat and at 23 weeks a baby is now slightly more likely to survive than not.

 
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CuttyDoesIt

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Since I was born half of the people have been pro life and half have been pro choice and no one gave a shit. Now if someone “picks their side” they’re hated by a lot of people. Dumb.

I think the issue one side is trying to enforce their beliefs on the other.

Pro Life? fine, dont get an abortion.. but dont force your beliefs on others
 

KFSuperStar

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A fetus becomes a life at the point it can survive outside the womb, roughly 24 weeks for the most part. It’s pretty darn easy for doctors today to take a look at the fetus with all of the available equipment we have now to make that determination.
So if a drunk driver kills the fetus but the mother is otherwise not injured should he be charged with manslaughter or a simple OWI?
 

sober_teacher

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So if a drunk driver kills the fetus but the mother is otherwise not injured should he be charged with manslaughter or a simple OWI?

That might be one of the most ridiculous hypotheticals I’ve ever read. Let’s just stick to the abortion topic shall we?

If for no other reason than I have zero idea how state laws typically cover stuff like this.
 
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LuciousBDragon

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That might be one of the most ridiculous hypotheticals I’ve ever read. Let’s just stick to the abortion topic shall we?

If for no other reason than I have zero idea how state laws typically cover stuff like this.
It is actually a very relevant question.

Drunk driver hits and kills a person = tragic & sad.

Drunk driver hits and kills a pregnant woman killing the fetus = still sad & tragic.

If a fetus is not considered viable life, why is the latter still considered by the general population as sad & tragic? This is not a solid argument per se, but it presents a philosophical conundrum for those who believe fetus’s are not persons.
 

lucas80

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If he beat MSU and tOSU on a consistent basis his abortion views would be more relevant.
 

Finance85

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A fetus becomes a life at the point it can survive outside the womb, roughly 24 weeks for the most part. It’s pretty darn easy for doctors today to take a look at the fetus with all of the available equipment we have now to make that determination.
Thank you. That's a fair and honest answer.

blog_abortions_gestational_age-1.gif


It looks like after week 21 we're are less than 1% of abortions. Percentages might be artificially low because of the Casey standard being used in roughly half the states.

If we used 15 weeks (Dobbs standard) as the cutoff, that would get us to around 6% of abortions not being allowed.

Let's say we wanted to err on the side of caution about when a fetus is a baby. If we use 20 weeks as the cutoff, over 98% of abortions would have still happened.

I'm only going down this path because I have a hard time believing that most pro-abortion folks believe abortion is OK right up until the moment of birth. If they do believe that, it's unlikely they will change their mind. For the rest of the pro-choice folks, what would be the gestational cutoff that would recognize the mother's rights until the baby's rights need to be recognized?
 
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cjr1310

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Thank you. That's a fair and honest answer.

blog_abortions_gestational_age-1.gif


It looks like after week 21 we're are less than 1% of abortions. Percentages might be artificially low because of the Casey standard being used in roughly half the states.

If we used 15 weeks (Dobbs standard) as the cutoff, that would get us to around 6% of abortions not being allowed.

Let's say we wanted to err on the side of caution about when a fetus is a baby. If we use 20 weeks as the cutoff, over 98% of abortions would have still happened.

I'm only going down this path because I have a hard time believing that most pro-abortion folks believe abortion is OK right up until the moment of birth. If they do believe that, it's unlikely they will change their mind. For the rest of the pro-choice folks, what would be the gestational cutoff that would recognize the mother's rights until the baby's rights need to be recognized?
I would be fine with a range of 16-24 weeks being a legal cutoff that states can decide with exceptions for health of the mother and non viable fetuses the only abortion allowed after 24 weeks.
 

sober_teacher

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It is actually a very relevant question.

Drunk driver hits and kills a person = tragic & sad.

Drunk driver hits and kills a pregnant woman killing the fetus = still sad & tragic.

If a fetus is not considered viable life, why is the latter still considered by the general population as sad & tragic? This is not a solid argument per se, but it presents a philosophical conundrum for those who believe fetus’s are not persons.

It’s tragic because of what might have been. Just my opinion but I don’t believe most women are happy about an abortion, for a variety of reasons it is simply the least bad option they fee they have at that point.

Your example is ridiculous because it all happens due to an accident, and there was no choice at all, doesn’t matter at what point the pregnancy was at. Heck, it’s heartbreaking particularly if they didn’t know they were pregnant at all prior to the accident.

It’s absolutely a difficult decision to get an abortion or go thru with it. I’ve never met someone who did so via accident/unplanned vs when relatives were trying to have a kid.

I just get back to being unable to provide a fetus in the early stages of a pregnancy, long before it’s considered medically viable, the same legal rights as someone who has been born.
 

mauricehawki

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Or it has more rights than an actual human being. The woman literally has to suffer before a doctor can save her life. Not to mention forced birth on little girls. How freaking sick are these people?!?! How can anyone be okay with making girls who have been raped birth a child??? Pro life my ass.
Forced birth or killing? Which is worse?
 

Tom Paris

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And this is what makes the discussion very complicated:

Kill a fetus on accident = sad & tragic

Kill a fetus on purpose = ok because of choice

This does not make sense to a lot of people.
It makes perfect sense. The fetus in the car accident was chosen to be carried by the mother. That’s what makes it tragic…she was planning to carry the baby.
 

LuciousBDragon

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It makes perfect sense. The fetus in the car accident was chosen to be carried by the mother. That’s what makes it tragic…she was planning to carry the baby.
I understand your reasoning but I still find it odd that society finds one type of death acceptable over others. I personally cannot reconcile that. Again, all goes back to the definition of “life” which we will never agree on.
 

ThorneStockton

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I understand your reasoning but I still find it odd that society finds one type of death acceptable over others. I personally cannot reconcile that. Again, all goes back to the definition of “life” which we will never agree on.

Do you have a reconciliation problem with all deaths?

A serial killer intentionally killing random people. Lots of people find the death of the random people tragic.

A convicted serial killer being put to death. Lots of people don't find any issue with that.

To me, intent is a important ingredient to the context of death.

Another example:

A bullied twelve year old commits suicide. Many would find that death to be tragic.

A 90 year old suffering from a debilitating illness. Many would find that death to be mercy.
 

sober_teacher

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I understand your reasoning but I still find it odd that society finds one type of death acceptable over others. I personally cannot reconcile that. Again, all goes back to the definition of “life” which we will never agree on.

I posted earlier, to me it’s ultimately a tragic situation regardless and it’s not imo a question of whether the decision is acceptable to everyone, most times I think it’s the least bad option.

But what matters the most is choice. Why is it acceptable for you to force someone to proceed with an unwanted pregnancy? You are making the choice for them.
 
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ThorneStockton

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I posted earlier, to me it’s ultimately a tragic situation regardless and it’s not imo a question of whether the decision is acceptable to everyone, most times I think it’s the least bad option.

But what matters the most is choice. Why is it acceptable for you to force someone to proceed with an unwanted pregnancy? You are making the choice for them.

Lots of the anti-abortion zealots consider abortion to be murder. We as a society have outlawed murder. We don't say: "if you don't want to commit murder, then don't, but don't infringe on my murders"

Which is also what gets them tied up when it comes to exceptions. Why should you be able to murder a baby just because it was created out of rape or incest?

Maybe there's some room for a stand your ground/self defense abortion if the baby is threatening the life of the mother. Maybe that's not murder in the eyes of the uber pro-lifers.
 
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BelemNole

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Thank you. That's a fair and honest answer.

blog_abortions_gestational_age-1.gif


It looks like after week 21 we're are less than 1% of abortions. Percentages might be artificially low because of the Casey standard being used in roughly half the states.

If we used 15 weeks (Dobbs standard) as the cutoff, that would get us to around 6% of abortions not being allowed.

Let's say we wanted to err on the side of caution about when a fetus is a baby. If we use 20 weeks as the cutoff, over 98% of abortions would have still happened.

I'm only going down this path because I have a hard time believing that most pro-abortion folks believe abortion is OK right up until the moment of birth. If they do believe that, it's unlikely they will change their mind. For the rest of the pro-choice folks, what would be the gestational cutoff that would recognize the mother's rights until the baby's rights need to be recognized?
The problem is people keep wanting to push it back. First it was 24 weeks, now you're saying 20, and someone below suggests as low as 14.
The fact is that most babies born before 23 weeks need a LOT of intervention to stay alive and even then will likely have some sort of disability.

There are no "pro-abortion" people, there are pro-choice people. But the anti-abortion people will never be happy with a compromise.
 
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Finance85

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The problem is people keep wanting to push it back. First it was 24 weeks, now you're saying 20, and someone below suggests as low as 14.
The fact is that most babies born before 23 weeks need a LOT of intervention to stay alive and even then will likely have some sort of disability.

There are no "pro-abortion" people, there are pro-choice people. But the anti-abortion people will never be happy with a compromise.
I'm not saying 20. I'm just pointing out the current statistics, and asking the question about what a compromise could be.

Just as I replied to you in another thread earlier this month, I don't know when a fetus becomes a baby. I do know it's some time before 30 weeks, and many people say 24 weeks.

For conversation's sake, if a fetus does become consistently viable earlier and earlier, wouldn't that mean they deserve protection earlier as well?

Do you advocate abortion being legal at any point until birth?
 

TJ8869

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But the anti-abortion people will never be happy with a compromise.
I would be happy with codified national law that allows abortion for any reason up to 15 weeks gestation but only in cases of rape and incest or if the mother’s life is in jeopardy or the fetus has no medical chance at survival after the 15 week mark.

And make “Plan B” and other forms of birth control as easily available as possible.

Deal?