Middle Class Jobs-mechanics

[ihhawk]

I was talking with someone today about the shortage of diesel mechanics in the ag industry. The dealerships across the country are having a hard time getting mechanics. The ones in Iowa are even offering to pay the schooling for high school kids who are interested...but they are still having a hard time getting kids to participate.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I was talking with someone today about the shortage of diesel mechanics in the ag industry. The dealerships across the country are having a hard time getting mechanics. The ones in Iowa are even offering to pay the schooling for high school kids who are interested...but they are still having a hard time getting kids to participate.

I just replied to a different thread with what amounts to this same message. Highly skilled mechanics, whether they be diesel, automotive, HVAC, heavy equipment operators, etc, are in HIGH demand and many businesses would hire more today...if they only existed.

Instead, we have an endless supply of job applicants that have 1 or 2 years of college and are looking to move up from burger flipping or shoe selling somewhere...only they cannot even begin to do the type of work that is in demand now. Oh, and they can't put their freaking p[hone down for 5 minutes to focus on the task at hand.

 

[MN.HAWK]

Being the guy who pays HVAC guys, t this day I wish I hadn't looked down on a trade school and gone that direction. Company I use for HVAC does a lot of kitchen equipment repair as well, ovens, ice machines, etc. Good gig.

Of course there are times in dead of winter or mid August where they're on the roof of a building, or crawling around in an attack, on call some weekends,etc. But it's a good job, plenty of job security, and in demand

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

Just curious. About how much are these employers looking to pay potential diesel mechanics?

 

[22*43*51]

Just curious. About how much are these employers looking to pay potential diesel mechanics?

We are always on the look out for technicians with this kind of background. Starting wages are in the $25-$26 an hour range.

If you have any PLC programming ability beyond that add $5-$8.

 

[stout1]

I know that both the implement dealers and auto shops around me at in the same boat.

Most of them are staring mid-$50s plus benefits and the opportunity for overtime.

Lots of good jobs out there that we should be helping kids get but turning a wrench isn't sexy.

 

[Hawkeyenuts66]

As someone that has done a lot of hiring over the last decade, the one thing I can say is that the crop of younger kids coming into the work force either from college or directly from high school are less than motivated. They want things given to them on a silver platter. They have no concept of what a hard days work is.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Being the guy who pays HVAC guys, t this day I wish I hadn't looked down on a trade school and gone that direction. Company I use for HVAC does a lot of kitchen equipment repair as well, ovens, ice machines, etc. Good gig.

Of course there are times in dead of winter or mid August where they're on the roof of a building, or crawling around in an attack, on call some weekends,etc. But it's a good job, plenty of job security, and in demand

I discussed this a little bit in the cost of higher education thread.

In our culture we've somehow made it so that people who spend tens of thousands of dollars on a college education can feel superior to someone who didn't spend a quarter of that on their trade school education that makes the same money if not more money then they do.

We really need to sort of drop the whole prestige then when it comes to college degrees.

And it's weird because of how ingrained it is that recognize how messed up it is but I still emotionally feel that same thing. I want my kids to go to college even though I know that trade school can often lead to better careers.

And honestly the reason there is so much demand is that most kids coming out of high school choose college and like you and I look down on trade schools as something for lesser people. The whole thing is dumb as heck when you look at it.

In my industry, union glaziers are making more then $30 an hour. Now like what you where talking about granted this all comes with having to work outside when the weather isn't super comfortable. But the money for skilled trades is really really good.

 

[LuteHawk]

Suburban high schools are geared to a pre-college track.
The number of honor classes assume students will attend
college. The problem is that many urban high schools
have dropped their vocational shop classes. Some community
junior colleges are picking up the slack in this area.

Bottom Line: America still needs good mechanics, plumbers,
electricians, welders, etc.

 

[Run&Blade]

A school like UNI could build themselves a nice niche by offering four year degrees that give you mechanic certifications and some basic business/management skills.

I would think you would be set up damn well with a resume like that.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

A school like UNI could build themselves a nice niche by offering four year degrees that give you mechanic certifications and some basic business/management skills.

I would think you would be set up damn well with a resume like that.

ABSOLUTELY! ^^ And I would add Communication Skills, oral and written, to the degree track and presto...you have a winner! Holy crap, Run&Blade and I should be on the Board of Regents!

Another closely related degree track could be industrial sales. There are only a few colleges anywhere that offer such a thing and I was in contact with Nebraska-Kearney(I think it was) last spring about maybe hiring one of their graduates for a sales job that I had open at the time...and all of their Spring '15 graduates had jobs lined up before graduation. Which is not something that is true of a whole range of degree tracks at the U of I.

Many of those kids had multiple offers and/or had committed to a company 3-9 months in advance of graduating. But hey, let's set up a few more women's studies degrees over here.

 

[Chuck C]

I'm a union electrician. Interestingly half of our 1st year apprentices tend to be in their late 20's to early 30's anymore. We even have guys in their 40's and 50's that are making a career change and becoming an apprentice.

It's good money, and the school is paid for as long as you work 5 years for a union contractor after you turn out.

 

[hawkifann]

We are always on the look out for technicians with this kind of background. Starting wages are in the $25-$26 an hour range.

If you have any PLC programming ability beyond that add $5-$8.

This is the message we need to send. Relatively low up-front time and cash investment in training (compared to 4-year colleges) and starting wages of $25-26/hr= roughly $52-55k, depending on how OT, vacations, etc. are accounted for. Starting in journalism, then taking a job in data without any IT background, I didn't make $50k until I was in my early 30s and after I had already sunk cost for undergrad and a master's degree. I'm happy with my path, but that's an important message to send. You can really set yourself up if you're smart with money and you're making $50k+ in your early 20s before you have a family to support.

 

[22*43*51]

This is the message we need to send. Relatively low up-front time and cash investment in training (compared to 4-year colleges) and starting wages of $25-26/hr= roughly $52-55k, depending on how OT, vacations, etc. are accounted for. Starting in journalism, then taking a job in data without any IT background, I didn't make $50k until I was in my early 30s and after I had already sunk cost for undergrad and a master's degree. I'm happy with my path, but that's an important message to send. You can really set yourself up if you're smart with money and you're making $50k+ in your early 20s before you have a family to support.

Yes. All with a two year degree for the most part.

My company does spend a lot of time with outreach messages to local high schools within a 30 mile, or so radius. We also, spend time trying influence community colleges and trade schools as to their curriculum.

Somehow, manufacturing jobs and trade jobs have lost their dignity even though there are still many out there that can provide a very solid living. We have placed so much emphasis on 4 year degrees that we now have a significant gap in trade positions.

 

[stout1]

Suburban high schools are geared to a pre-college track.
The number of honor classes assume students will attend
college. The problem is that many urban high schools
have dropped their vocational shop classes. Some community
junior colleges are picking up the slack in this area.

Bottom Line: America still needs good mechanics, plumbers,
electricians, welders, etc.

No the problem is at every type of high school.

I attended a suburban high school with no vocational programs other than in agriculture and there were many kids who would have benefited from that.

 

[stout1]

A school like UNI could build themselves a nice niche by offering four year degrees that give you mechanic certifications and some basic business/management skills.

I would think you would be set up damn well with a resume like that.

My father and I spend a lot of time discussing the future of education and work and have hit upon a similar idea.

Lots of value for a kid in an education like that.

 

[stout1]

Yes. All with a two year degree for the most part.

My company does spend a lot of time with outreach messages to local high schools within a 30 mile, or so radius. We also, spend time trying influence community colleges and trade schools as to their curriculum.

Somehow, manufacturing jobs and trade jobs have lost their dignity even though there are still many out there that can provide a very solid living. We have placed so much emphasis on 4 year degrees that we now have a significant gap in trade positions.

You have to find a way to win the "cocktail conversation".

A parent today is embarrassed to say that their child is the lead technician at Eastside John Deere in spite of the fact that he is knocking back $65k and benefits when all the parents are saying that their kid has a philosophy degree from Swathmore and pursuing a masters. Of course, the other parents never follow up with the fact that the philosophy degree cost $150k and their kid is slinging coffee at Starbucks.

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

The "everybody should get a 4 year degree" mentality needs to be eliminated. There are a lot of decent paying trades that you could make a decent living out of without getting yourself saddled with a 4 year university debt.
Not saying people should abandon a 4 year university education, but I would guess that there is a decent percentage of people attending 4 year institutions that probably shouldn't be there and will likely end up with a $12/hr job once they are done because they cannot find any work in their field of study.

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

Good conversation. My father was a mechanic. It's a tough and dirty job, hard on your body especially the hands but he made a solid living out of it. Like a lot of mechanics back in the day, he was self taught on a farm. Does anybody think the decline in farmers has affected fields like the ones you're talking about? Handymen aren't born that way, they earn it through trial and error and hard work. One thing farmers have is an abundance of machinery to tinker on.

 

[cigaretteman]

Good conversation. My father was a mechanic. It's a tough and dirty job, hard on your body especially the hands but he made a solid living out of it. Like a lot of mechanics back in the day, he was self taught on a farm. Does anybody think the decline in farmers has affected fields like the ones you're talking about? Handymen aren't born that way, they earn it through trial and error and hard work. One thing farmers have is an abundance of machinery to tinker on.

Possibly the declining farm population has had some effect. I think the increasing complexity and computer technology in mechanical machinery of all types has made it much more difficult for people to be self taught mechanics. Sure, it's possible for some, but it is much more difficult than it was when your father was starting out.

 

[whatsup12579er]

I was talking with someone today about the shortage of skilled workers in any industry. The dealerships across the country are having a hard time getting mechanics. The ones in Iowa are even offering to pay the schooling for high school kids who are interested...but they are still having a hard time getting kids to participate.

FIFY. There is a shortage of people with limited skills in the workforce. Many companies can't find workers with limited training, or even willing to be trained.

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

The "everybody should get a 4 year degree" mentality needs to be eliminated. There are a lot of decent paying trades that you could make a decent living out of without getting yourself saddled with a 4 year university debt.
Not saying people should abandon a 4 year university education, but I would guess that there is a decent percentage of people attending 4 year institutions that probably shouldn't be there and will likely end up with a $12/hr job once they are done because they cannot find any work in their field of study.

There's some truth to that but the statistics still support college degrees.

The kid looking to be a diesel mechanic making $50k can be derailed. He messes up and gets a dui and the good non-degree job list narrows considerably.

 

[The_Joker13]

There's some truth to that but the statistics still support college degrees.

The kid looking to be a diesel mechanic making $50k can be derailed. He messes up and gets a dui and the good non-degree job list narrows considerably.

For a dui? Not really. Maybe for the time his license is suspended. I've worked with guys in the trades that have felonies and have no trouble finding work.

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

I doubt they're making $25 an hour. This has come up before. Someone said they can't find qualified candidates to hire because they fail a drug test or have a dui, etc.

 

[hawkifann]

There's some truth to that but the statistics still support college degrees.

The kid looking to be a diesel mechanic making $50k can be derailed. He messes up and gets a dui and the good non-degree job list narrows considerably.

DUIs aren't going to do you a lot of favors in the degree jobs, either.

 

[22*43*51]

I doubt they're making $25 an hour. This has come up before. Someone said they can't find qualified candidates to hire because they fail a drug test or have a dui, etc.

We'll give a pass on a single DUI.

Obviously, if your UA is dirty you won't continue on in the hiring process.

 

[Pepperman]

I doubt they're making $25 an hour. This has come up before. Someone said they can't find qualified candidates to hire because they fail a drug test or have a dui, etc.

I remember that thread too. My contribution was that the painting crew that did my house was unable to find anybody good to show up and actually do the work. The owner fired druggies, couldn't get people to show up on time (and clean/sober)... he was paying $20 for people who didn't even have paint-spraying skills. Maybe these people hadn't even painted before at all... but if they'd show up and be sober, he would train them and pay them $20 per hour. He told me his better guys that are "veterans" were in the $25+ range. I'm pretty sure they didn't get any other benefits, but still, that's a lot for people with very low skills.

Edited to say the owner thus ended up doing a lot of the day-to-day jobs. I'm sure he was making great money, but he was frustrated by the situation.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Having worked for almost 30 years in manufacturing, I often wished I had become a tool and die maker. All three companies I worked for were all looking for those. That being said, a guy at my last mfg. job, who could make and/or fix anything continually got the shaft money wise. He finally quit and went to work for a construction outfit keeping all the equipment running at twice his previous salary.

 

[Pepperman]

Having worked for almost 30 years in manufacturing, I often wished I had become a tool and die maker. All three companies I worked for were all looking for those. That being said, a guy at my last mfg. job, who could make and/or fix anything continually got the shaft money wise. He finally quit and went to work for a construction outfit keeping all the equipment running at twice his previous salary.

This post would also fit in well in the teachers thread. Although sadly unions keep the best people "down". Plight.

 

[HawkeyeHitman]

Caterpillar put me through college.

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

There's some truth to that but the statistics still support college degrees.

The kid looking to be a diesel mechanic making $50k can be derailed. He messes up and gets a dui and the good non-degree job list narrows considerably.

anybody can be derailed alcohol related incidents or not. I have worked many different jobs throughout my time with many different people that had a 4 year education that had to resort to taking a "perma temp" job (the idea of staffing companies and perma temps are a cancer to the workforce as well. The idea that a kid, who likely has no clue what they want to study should go off to a four year institution right after high school is outdated to me. Personally, i think a year or two of working some crap job in the real world out of high school before going to college would be beneficial.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I doubt they're making $25 an hour. This has come up before. Someone said they can't find qualified candidates to hire because they fail a drug test or have a dui, etc.

I know have written about this a time or two, and one of them was pretty recent. Regarding DUI's...To be more specific...most of the skilled workers for me also need to have clean driving records because they drive company vehicles, etc. So the real DUI "blocker" is when the candidate needs to be able to drive a company vehicle.

Some construction companies though will readily hire someone with a bad driving record...because they will never be allowed to drive a company vehicle, so the insurance company does not care. They have to provide their own transportation to and from work and never drive on behalf of the company.

Drug tests...many of the larger, more established companies will no longer allow someone on their premises, no matter who they work for, if they are not in a drug testing program. So that is normally even more restrictive than the DUI impaired folks.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

There's some truth to that but the statistics still support college degrees.

The kid looking to be a diesel mechanic making $50k can be derailed. He messes up and gets a dui and the good non-degree job list narrows considerably.

The more I think about this, the more I begin to wonder about these statistics...I wonder how these stats get created. Is this another case where the outfit doing the "study" is actually served by the reported outcome or analysis of said study?

Are we measuring all of the people that start off going to a 4 year college, but then wash out somewhere along the line? Are we only considering those that finish a degree?

 

[bk_out]

Any suggestions for a 43 year old with a 4 year finance degree looking to change careers? Not really intetested in automobile mechanic but wouldn't mind some type of hands on or manufacturing career. Anyone familiar with what Kirkwood has to offer? I have a family to support so the less schooling and quick job placement would be ideal. Thanks!

 

[Wendy79]

Any suggestions for a 43 year old with a 4 year finance degree looking to change careers? Not really intetested in automobile mechanic but wouldn't mind some type of hands on or manufacturing career. Anyone familiar with what Kirkwood has to offer? I have a family to support so the less schooling and quick job placement would be ideal. Thanks!

They offer a welding program. Takes a couple of years.

http://www.kirkwood.edu/site/index.php?p=8447

 

[cigaretteman]

They offer a welding program. Takes a couple of years.

http://www.kirkwood.edu/site/index.php?p=8447

They have a truck driving program as well

http://www.kirkwood.edu/td

 

[herecomethehawkeyes]

.

The kid looking to be a diesel mechanic making $50k can be derailed. He messes up and gets a dui and the good non-degree job list narrows considerably.

I have been thinking more about this....is it really so hard for people whose livelihood is dependent on having and keeping a drivers license to not get a DUI? I have a friend who owns and operates his own delivery truck. Last time we hit a baseball game, he had a couple beers. one right away when we got there and another in the 4th inning. His reason for not having any more...because he can't take the risk of getting a DUI.

Not sure why a career choice that has a pretty solid wage would would not be considered because of something that is easy to avoid.

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

I have been thinking more about this....is it really so hard for people whose livelihood is dependent on having and keeping a drivers license to not get a DUI? I have a friend who owns and operates his own delivery truck. Last time we hit a baseball game, he had a couple beers. one right away when we got there and another in the 4th inning. His reason for not having any more...because he can't take the risk of getting a DUI.

Not sure why a career choice that has a pretty solid wage would would not be considered because of something that is easy to avoid.

Sh*t happens. There are probably a hundred reasons why the supply of qualified mechanics is what it is. I don't think it's (seen as) low because everybody dropped out of college and is serving lattes.

The good wages that are being discussed wouldn't be that high if the supply of qualified mechanics was higher. They might be making $18 instead of $25 if there wasn't a "shortage". If there really is a shortage in any given vocation, they aren't paying enough to attract more people.

I think the issue of college education value is related but not the same exact question. Don't get me wrong. I don't think a C student in high school is likely to obtain a legitimate 4-year degree. At least based on the percentages.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I have been thinking more about this....is it really so hard for people whose livelihood is dependent on having and keeping a drivers license to not get a DUI? ...

True story...I had a worker that was pretty young at that time and stories filtered back to the office from time to time that he was hitting the sauce pretty hard on off work hours and then driving, etc. I spoke with him and warned him about likely consequences of getting a DUI, losing his job, and also injuring himself or others while driving impaired.

A few months go by and the stories of him ""overdoing it" continue to trickle in and I speak with him again. And then, yes, a third time I talk with him, all in about 6-9 months. Then...SHOCKER...he gets a DUI. Classic immature reaction ensues...cops were jerks, he was just getting gas, etc.

It gets better...when I informed him that he ewas now unemployed...he actually got mad at me for not paying for: 1. The radically higher insurance, which if I recall, wasn't even available immediately, I think you had a 90 waiting period or something. 2. The breathalyzer device that would need to be in EVERY vehicle that he could drive for something like 6-18 months. And....wait for it... 3. A person to drive him around in the company vehicle.

I could add other similar tales, albeit none so dramatically stupid as that one. But PLENTY of people don't think...period. Do not be surprised Grasshopper to find out the depth of poor thinking that goes on out there...every day.

 

[SansSouci]

It's ironic that I stated that I was a master plumber and a licensed hvac tech on this board twelve years ago and got hammered and called a poor.

Now I'm a maintenance manager of a large hospital and make as much as my wife who has a four year degree and is the executive director of her business.

F#*k you, F#*kers.