Missed Opportunity

[22*43*51]

...to hold parents accountable for s#itty parenting.

Good job out of the neighbor. She should be given an accommodation of some kind from the city. Those are the behaviors that should be getting publicity.

CLEVELAND (AP) — Cleveland police say they confiscated a gun, a stun gun and a knife from two boys after a woman spotted a 7-year-old trying to load bullets into a gun magazine outside a home.

WEWS-TV (http://bit.ly/1LjbmHO ) reports the woman looked out a window, saw the boy with two others, approached them and demanded the gun magazine. Police say the boy handed it to her along with a bag containing a pistol.

He told officers that the gun belonged to his mother's boyfriend and that he took it from a mantel.

Officers searched the children and found a 12-year-old boy in the group had a stun gun and two bullets, and a large knife in his sock.

The station reports the boys were taken into custody and then released to their mothers.

WEWS-TV, http://www.newsnet5.com

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

Good thing they released them to their mothers. Especially the one with the boyfriend.

 

[markfromj]

...to hold parents accountable for s#itty parenting.

What is it that you wanted the system to do to "hold them accountable"?

 

[22*43*51]

What is it that you wanted the system to do to "hold them accountable"?

I made a stink in another thread about responsibility within the home.

As a gun owner, leaving loaded guns and Tasers laying around a home in reach of children is unconscionable to me. Especially if it leads to a seven year old wandering the streets with them.

This is how these kids shoot each other, or themselves.

I am a staunch 2A supporter, but if you cannot practice responsible gun ownership and your irresponsibility bleeds into the streets, or causes death/injury in your home, then there needs to be some accountability for your apathy.

I would have supported some sort of fine, community service, or a few weekends of lost liberty in this situation. Instead they were just given back to their mothers. The same ones that let their boyfriends leave guns and Tasers laying on the "mantel".

 

[hawkifann]

I made a stink in another thread about responsibility within the home.

As a gun owner, leaving loaded guns and Tasers laying around a home in reach of children is unconscionable to me. Especially if it leads to a seven year old wandering the streets with them.

This is how these kids shoot each other, or themselves.

I am a staunch 2A supporter, but if you cannot practice responsible gun ownership and your irresponsibility bleeds into the streets, or causes death/injury in your home, then there needs to be some accountability for your apathy.

I would have supported some sort of fine, community service, or a few weekends of lost liberty in this situation. Instead they were just given back to their mothers. The same ones that let their boyfriends leave guns and Tasers laying on the "mantel".

I agree with this. This is very much a "this is why we can't have nice things" kind of situation. I know a lot of very responsible gun owners. Hunting and personal defense weapons, got training, weapons always secured on person or in safes in the house. These people get their kids and spouses training so everyone has healthy respect for the weapons and understands what they're handling. I'm also a strong 2A supporter (I own no guns), but morons like this are ruining it for everyone. I do support prosecuting people who don't properly secure their weapons. I understand thefts happen, so not so much on that front as long as they were reasonably secured prior to theft, but no kid should be able to grab a taser and pistol from over the fireplace.

 

[naturalmwa]

I made a stink in another thread about responsibility within the home.

As a gun owner, leaving loaded guns and Tasers laying around a home in reach of children is unconscionable to me. Especially if it leads to a seven year old wandering the streets with them.

This is how these kids shoot each other, or themselves.

I am a staunch 2A supporter, but if you cannot practice responsible gun ownership and your irresponsibility bleeds into the streets, or causes death/injury in your home, then there needs to be some accountability for your apathy.

I would have supported some sort of fine, community service, or a few weekends of lost liberty in this situation. Instead they were just given back to their mothers. The same ones that let their boyfriends leave guns and Tasers laying on the "mantel".

Would you support a gun bill that mandated "responsible gun ownership" so that when someone fails at that, there is a way to charge them with a crime and actually punish irresponsible behavior?

 

[hawkifann]

Would you support a gun bill that mandated "responsible gun ownership" so that when someone fails at that, there is a way to charge them with a crime and actually punish irresponsible behavior?

I would, depending on the parameters of the bill.

 

[naturalmwa]

I would, depending on the parameters of the bill.

What do you think it would need to include? From this issue, it would seem to require a provision that guns be locked away. What other planks would a good "responsible gun ownership" bill need?

 

[22*43*51]

Would you support a gun bill that mandated "responsible gun ownership" so that when someone fails at that, there is a way to charge them with a crime and actually punish irresponsible behavior?

Yes. Don't limit the 2A, hold people accountable for irresponsibility, to a degree.

 

[naturalmwa]

Yes. Don't limit the 2A, hold people accountable for irresponsibility, to a degree.

But we probably need to pass a law to do that. You have to spell out what is responsible and what isn't so charges can be brought.

 

[22*43*51]

But we probably need to pass a law to do that. You have to spell out what is responsible and what isn't so charges can be brought.

Not a law maker, but would listen to options and support a sensible one.

Something on a graduated scale, by severity.

 

[hawkifann]

What do you think it would need to include? From this issue, it would seem to require a provision that guns be locked away. What other planks would a good "responsible gun ownership" bill need?

I haven't given this a ton of thought, so this is kind of off the cuff, but I think there would be a range of things:

• All guns requiring permits/registration should have them (not really sure how to handle the antique/historical stuff, but those weapons aren't particularly likely to be used successfully in any public way, so it's probably one of the smallest risk areas out there)
• Anyone carrying should have necessary permits
• Gun owners should have appropriate gun safes
• Anyone handling the guns should go through training

I will say that some of this is tough to track, but if I own guns, it IS my responsibility to make sure they're safeguarded. Hell, if nothing else, I don't want some drunk moron to break into my house one night and shoot me with a gun I left on the mantle.

I think there would need to be reasonable provisions to allow for someone to report a gun stolen and there would be liability for guests and people living in the house getting control of the gun and doing harm. Not sure what the charge would be, specifically, but we could have those debates. Also, I'm not sure what processes should be to have guns forcibly removed from homes when a gun owner becomes someone who no longer qualifies to own guns for whatever reason. I do think it should be a high bar of proof and that's where you're going to have the toughest fight. I also think we should be Draconian for crimes committed with illegal guns.

I think it's important to note, though, that in a free society, we're never going to be without risk of incidents like this. I think we can cut the numbers down through better awareness and enforcement on gun safety and extending liability to gun owners, but there will always be that person that we really didn't see coming.

 

[markfromj]

I would have supported some sort of fine, community service, or a few weekends of lost liberty in this situation. Instead they were just given back to their mothers.

How do you know that was "instead"? How do you know there were not other consequences like those you mention?

 

[Quintana]

Good job out of the neighbor. She should be given an accommodation of some kind from the city. Those are the behaviors that should be getting publicity.

didn't read the article yet, but i believe we have a WOB. unless the OP thinks she should be given a house or a hotel room or maybe a pup tent...

 

[naturalmwa]

I haven't given this a ton of thought, so this is kind of off the cuff, but I think there would be a range of things:

• All guns requiring permits/registration should have them (not really sure how to handle the antique/historical stuff, but those weapons aren't particularly likely to be used successfully in any public way, so it's probably one of the smallest risk areas out there)
• Anyone carrying should have necessary permits
• Gun owners should have appropriate gun safes
• Anyone handling the guns should go through training

I will say that some of this is tough to track, but if I own guns, it IS my responsibility to make sure they're safeguarded. Hell, if nothing else, I don't want some drunk moron to break into my house one night and shoot me with a gun I left on the mantle.

I think there would need to be reasonable provisions to allow for someone to report a gun stolen and there would be liability for guests and people living in the house getting control of the gun and doing harm. Not sure what the charge would be, specifically, but we could have those debates. Also, I'm not sure what processes should be to have guns forcibly removed from homes when a gun owner becomes someone who no longer qualifies to own guns for whatever reason. I do think it should be a high bar of proof and that's where you're going to have the toughest fight. I also think we should be Draconian for crimes committed with illegal guns.

I think it's important to note, though, that in a free society, we're never going to be without risk of incidents like this. I think we can cut the numbers down through better awareness and enforcement on gun safety and extending liability to gun owners, but there will always be that person that we really didn't see coming.

This seems practical. Basically treating a gun like a car with training and registration. Adding the locked up feature would give the system the tools it needs to correct the behavior in this particular incident. Good job.

 

[markfromj]

didn't read the article yet, but i believe we have a WOB. unless the OP thinks she should be given a house or a hotel room or maybe a pup tent...

Yup. Gold star WOB there...

 

[22*43*51]

didn't read the article yet, but i believe we have a WOB. unless the OP thinks she should be given a house or a hotel room or maybe a pup tent...

 

[22*43*51]

How do you know that was "instead"? How do you know there were not other consequences like those you mention?

I don't.

I think it would be beneficial for the media to cover the consequences of these actions.

If they truly want to set examples and influence behavior.

 

[markfromj]

I don't.

I think it would be beneficial for the media to cover the consequences of these actions.

If they truly want to set examples and influence behavior.

Exactly. We are going to need a Richie Cunningham moment on this issue of indirect responsibility for crimes committed with guns.

(Note: A "Richie Cunningham" moment is a phrase and concept I made up (and probably others have as well). Happy Days: Richie being picked on by some alleged tough guys. Fonzie: "You just need to stand up to them, and they will back down". Richie does and they don't. Richie: "Fonz, why isn't it working?!!!" Fonz: "Oh, yeah, I forgot one detail: You have to have a reputation: One time in your life, you have to actually have HIT someone". I do not think we as a culture have ever "hit someone" on this issue...that is, gun owner paying dearly for negligent gun management.)