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Mo Ibraham and player overuse

HawkNorth

HR All-State
Nov 24, 2003
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Minnesota‘s entire offensive scheme is built around the running of Mo Ibraham. As I watched the game last Saturday I thought about the number of carries that Ibraham gets per game and the wear and tear it must take on his body. He had 39 against the Hawks including 14 runs during their 16-play drive in the fourth quarter. That’s insane. The fact that he has survived without injury this season is astonishing. In the Star-Tribune this morning, columnist Jim Souhan takes Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell and PJ to task for overusing their players. Ultimately the question is, to what lengths will you go as a coach to get a victory.

P.J. Fleck, Kevin O'Connell need to prioritize player safety with Mo Ibrahim, Christian Darrisaw​

Two terrific young players, Gophers running back Mohamed Ibrahim and Vikings tackle Christian Darrisaw, were used too much by two coaches desperate for victories they didn't get over the weekend.
NOVEMBER 23, 2022 — 6:22AM
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Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell, left, and Gophers coach P.J. Fleck, in losses to the Cowboys and Hawkeyes last weekend, leaned heavily on players with injuries in their recent past.


Jim SouhanJim Souhan@SOUHANSTRIB
Over the weekend, Minnesota's highest-profile football teams exposed the ugly side of their sport.
The Gophers lost, 13-10, to Iowa at Huntington Bank Stadium. The Vikings lost, 40-3, to the Cowboys at U.S. Bank Stadium. Both games were unsightly. What was truly ugly about them was the head coaches' willingness to put players at risk.
Vikings coach Kevin O'Connell played offensive tackle Christian Darrisaw one week after Darrisaw suffered a concussion. Darrisaw left the Cowboys game because of another concussion and he now will miss Thursday's game against New England while back in the protocol process.
O'Connell has earned a reputation as a likable and humane coach. It is difficult, this early in his tenure, to tell whether he was cavalier about Darrisaw's health or whether he sincerely felt Darrisaw was healthy enough to play without further damaging himself.
O'Connell talked about the importance of the protocol Tuesday and said "health and safety is the number one priority." Two days earlier, though, Darrisaw was lining up against the Cowboys. Even though Darrisaw cleared the league's flawed concussion protocol, O'Connell still should have kept him off the field.
In the NFL, players being paid life-changing salaries have agents and belong to a union. Players shouldn't be put at risk, but they have allies should they choose to challenge a coach's decision.
The Gophers' P.J. Fleck has, like O'Connell, cultivated a reputation as a player-friendly coach. Saturday, he allowed his star senior running back, Mo Ibrahim, to carry the ball 39 times against a physical defense.

Ibrahim's carries in the last five games: 30, 36, 32, 36 and 39 — all in less than a month's time. Before this five-game stretch, Ibrahim had played in 33 games for the Gophers, and had totaled five games of 30 carries or more, and in only one game had he carried more than 33 times.
Ibrahim missed most of the 2021 season after suffering a ruptured Achilles tendon in the opener against Ohio State. He is a great college football player with a future in the NFL. Fleck is putting him at risk for injury, and could be damaging his ability to make a living carrying a football.
Unlike Darrisaw, Ibrahim does not have an agent (officially), a union or a life-changing income. He is at the mercy of one coach's decisions.
Fleck's overuse of Ibrahim in the past month doesn't represent one red flag — it represents a bouquet of them.
Fleck needed Ibrahim's greatness in an important game against Iowa, so Ibrahim carried the ball 39 times. That's too many carries for a college back with a physical running style, but if that game represented one impassioned attempt to steal a victory, perhaps it could be excused.
But Ibrahim carried 30 times in a 45-17 loss to Penn State, 36 times in a 31-0 victory over Rutgers and 36 times in a 31-3 victory over Northwestern. There was no reason for Ibrahim to be overworked in those games — particularly in blowout victories over terrible Rutgers and Northwestern teams.
Those rushing totals are an indictment of both Fleck's recruiting and offensive philosophy, as well as evidence of his willingness to put a player at risk.
This is Fleck's sixth year with the Gophers. Unlike in the outlier season of 2019, all of the players on the roster are his recruits. He was an NFL receiver who recruited Rashod Bateman, yet his receiving corps this season is so thin that an injury to Chris Autman-Bell destroyed his passing offense. His backfield is so thin that Ibrahim carries the ball even when games are out of hand.
Next year, Fleck will be without two of his security blankets — Tanner Morgan's leadership and Ibrahim's brilliance. Fleck is 25-26 in the Big Ten, including 13-11 since the 2019 season that was supposed to transform the program.
With a remarkably easy schedule and a team filled with sixth-year and other seniors, this was supposed to be the Gophers' year. They are 4-4 in the Big Ten.
Fleck is making 2019 look like an aberration aided by the previous regime's players.
Saturday, the Gophers play at Wisconsin. Ibrahim should be limited to 25 or so carries. If the Gophers can't win without overusing their star back, blame Fleck's recruiting.
 
I was shocked at how much they used Ibrahim. And it’s a pattern, I know someone mentioned that Illinois game where Canzeri had 45, we were not doing that week in and week out…

Ibrahim has a lot of mileage, I’ll be interested to see what NFL teams think.
 
I don't believe, at least in the NFL, the coach has any say regarding a concussion situation. If the medical team clears him, why would the coach continue to sit him?

Ibrahim's situation is that at 40 carries, you're going to wear down in the game, which manifest itself in a late fumble
 
I’m surprised that the article didn’t call out putting their QB back into the game so quickly at the beginning of the 2nd quarter after getting hit in the head by Benson. He got hit in the head hard, looked shaky and slow getting up, threw a pass on the next play, and then the refs stopped the game because they were worried about him. He came back in two plays later after “clearing” concussion protocol. This gets back to the idea that players injured and stopping play should sit out at least until a change in possession. There’s no way they really looked over that kid in such a short amount of time.
 
I’m surprised that the article didn’t call out putting their QB back into the game so quickly at the beginning of the 2nd quarter after getting hit in the head by Benson. He got hit in the head hard, looked shaky and slow getting up, threw a pass on the next play, and then the refs stopped the game because they were worried about him. He came back in two plays later after “clearing” concussion protocol. This gets back to the idea that players injured and stopping play should sit out at least until a change in possession. There’s no way they really looked over that kid in such a short amount of time.
Exactly this. Not only was he clearly out of it but he even initiated the contact with Benson by lowering his head into Benson's facemask. Throw the targeting flag on offensive players you coward officials. Sorry that's been bugging me since it happened.
 
The Fleckster is an odd dude.

At times he displays great care for past and present players. But the obvious overuse of MI can't be overstated.

I suspect Mo will have a very short pro career because of how he was used in college.

I expect him to sit out what now has become a meaningless Gophers bowl game.
 
Exactly this. Not only was he clearly out of it but he even initiated the contact with Benson by lowering his head into Benson's facemask. Throw the targeting flag on offensive players you coward officials. Sorry that's been bugging me since it happened.
Agree the tackler can't magically adjust to an offensive player dropping their head.
 
I’m surprised that the article didn’t call out putting their QB back into the game so quickly at the beginning of the 2nd quarter after getting hit in the head by Benson. He got hit in the head hard, looked shaky and slow getting up, threw a pass on the next play, and then the refs stopped the game because they were worried about him. He came back in two plays later after “clearing” concussion protocol. This gets back to the idea that players injured and stopping play should sit out at least until a change in possession. There’s no way they really looked over that kid in such a short amount of time.
Remember in the old days they got the old smelling salts out? Not funny now, but crazy that is the way they treated those circumstances.
 
Ron Dayne averaged 28 carries his senior season over 12 games.
There are five NFL players that have over 400 carries in a season.
Was anyone outraged when Canzeri had 45 carries against Illinois in 2015?
It's not really sustainable. The next game following Canzeri's 45 carry performance, he got hurt on his 4th carry against Northwestern and missed the rest of that game and the following 2 games.

I don't know that there is a right or wrong answer here. The article in question cited two different things. The Vikings tackle was coming off a concussion and had another one. I don't know how you prevent that other than holding him out another week, even after he was cleared. Concussions don't seem related to over-use. Ibrahim isn't hurt this year, the writer seems to be saying that he's just carrying the ball too much. Again, highly subjective. I am mixed on whether he will make it in the NFL. He doesn't have great speed, but his vision and toughness are off the charts good.
 
I looked at Shonn Greene's standout year where he won the Doak Walker award.

In his last four games Ibrahim has more carries than Greene did in any game during that year. If you go back to his (Ibrahim) last five games, he has tied the most carries Greene had during said year.

If you remember....Greene's rushing was Iowa's best offense that year and was what everyone hung their hat on.

When I looked that up it really made Ibrahim's workload look even worse.
 
You play the guy and give him a hundred carries if he doesn’t show signs of slowing. He can rest during bowl prep and after the season.
 
Last season Gophers fans were blaming all their struggles on the OC that the Fleckster fired.

Don't know who they're blaming this year and who Fleck Boy will scapegoat?
 
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MI is a beast and can clearly handle a heavy workload. Should have no issues with 35 carries a game.

The issue is the 14 carries on a 16 play drive. Late in a game..... that is reckless and just inviting injury.

I'd hope they are communicating with the young man and monitoring how his body is holding up. But now the final game is fairly meaningless, so should ABSOLUTELY keep him under 30 carries.
Will be interesting to see how they use him.

Oh and... Eff Fleck and Wisconsin too.
 
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Ron Dayne averaged 28 carries his senior season over 12 games.
There are five NFL players that have over 400 carries in a season.
Was anyone outraged when Canzeri had 45 carries against Illinois in 2015?
The toll it takes is accumulative in nature. How many carries did Canzeri have in the two games prior and the two games post?
 
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My thought, "Does MI have the ability to tell the coaches he needs a blow and get it until he is ready to return?" If he does then it is on MI for attempting 39 runs. It is also up to the coaches and medical staff to know when to avoid a player trying to do more than what is reasonable. I think this maybe a case of little bit of each.

On the opposite side of the ball how many plays did some Iowa starters play? I'm not looking it up but I would guess Jack Campbell was on the field for all 39 MI runs and every other Mn play. I know Iowa rotated linemen in that game and usually does. For the most part the second and third level is on the field all the time. No one talks about that much.
 
Old-timers may remember ISU RB Dwayne Crutchfield from 1980-81. He was a gifted, big RB that coach Donnie Duncan abused. In 1981 3-0 ISU played at #5 Oklahoma and left with a 7-7 tie. IIRC, Crutchfield had 50 carries against a physical Sooner defense. He really wasn't the same after that and was obviously playing injured later in the season.
 
Ron Dayne averaged 28 carries his senior season over 12 games.
There are five NFL players that have over 400 carries in a season.
Was anyone outraged when Canzeri had 45 carries against Illinois in 2015?

that game for canzeri was an outlier, you can probably count on one hand the number of times an Iowa rb avg 25 carries Per game under Kirk.

for Dayne and other backs, it’s a cumulative thing and career stats indicate that players just can’t maintain that workload and maintain a high level of production at the same time for more than a couple of years.
 
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Last season Gophers fans were blaming all their struggles on the OC that the Fleckster fired.

Don't know who they're blaming this year and who Fleck Boy will scapegoat?

Oh trust me, the fans will find somebody to scapegoat Mitch, you know that !
 
I agree with the article and feel they should have sat MI for the second half. It would have been in his best interest and the best interest of Iowa. I hope Fleck considers these things moving forward.
 
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Old-timers may remember ISU RB Dwayne Crutchfield from 1980-81. He was a gifted, big RB that coach Donnie Duncan abused. In 1981 3-0 ISU played at #5 Oklahoma and left with a 7-7 tie. IIRC, Crutchfield had 50 carries against a physical Sooner defense. He really wasn't the same after that and was obviously playing injured later in the season.

Supposedly that same Dwayne Crutchfield flipped Hayden off on a long TD run as well😊
 
The toll it takes is accumulative in nature. How many carries did Canzeri have in the two games prior and the two games post?

He has 277 carries for the year. Yes, it is a lot. It isn't unprecedented and is what I would expect late in the season with his starting QB injured.
 
that game for canzeri was an outlier, you can probably count on one hand the number of times an Iowa rb avg 25 carries Per game under Kirk.

for Dayne and other backs, it’s a cumulative thing and career stats indicate that players just can’t maintain that workload and maintain a high level of production at the same time for more than a couple of years.

Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton both averaged around 295 carries per year over long careers.
 
Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton both averaged around 295 carries per year over long careers.
One, you’re talking about entirely different eras.

two, those are the two best running backs of all time. Very, very few running backs have ever been able to sustain that combination of workload and high production over the course of an entire career. Usually, they will break down physically after a couple years worth of that.
 
Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton both averaged around 295 carries per year over long careers.
The NFL played 16 game seasons during Smith's career and most of Payton's. Smith's heaviest workload was in 1995 when he averaged 23.6 carries per game. He averaged less than 20 per game in 8 of his 15 seasons and 19.5 per game for his career. Payton's peak average was 24.2 carries in 1977 when he broke the rushing record and for his career averaged 20.2
 
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My thought, "Does MI have the ability to tell the coaches he needs a blow and get it until he is ready to return?" If he does then it is on MI for attempting 39 runs. It is also up to the coaches and medical staff to know when to avoid a player trying to do more than what is reasonable. I think this maybe a case of little bit of each.

On the opposite side of the ball how many plays did some Iowa starters play? I'm not looking it up but I would guess Jack Campbell was on the field for all 39 MI runs and every other Mn play. I know Iowa rotated linemen in that game and usually does. For the most part the second and third level is on the field all the time. No one talks about that much.
Yes the linebackers and DB's play every snap. Only exception for Iowa right now is whether they have Higgins or Castro on the field.

The # of snaps, especially for the LB's, does add up over the course of a season. I thought Benson and Campbell wore down to an extent in 2021, and it was pretty evident in the Big Ten Title game. The issue is there is such a huge chasm between Campbell/Benson and what Iowa has in back of them right now, there is no good way to take them out of the game.

It would be great if Iowa could get out to a lead and limit the snaps for the defense heading into Indianapolis. But not sure this Iowa team is capable of that. They just have to find an extra bit of energy for 2 more games, then they can rest.
 
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The NFL played 16 game seasons during Smith's career and most of Payton's. Smith's heaviest workload was in 1995 when he averaged 23.6 carries per game. He averaged less than 20 per game in 8 of his 15 seasons and 19.5 per game for his career. Payton's peak average was 24.2 carries in 1977 when he broke the rushing record and for his career averaged 20.2

With Smith, it wasn't just 16 games. The Cowboys played a lot of post-season games during his career. Those stats aren't included in the numbers I listed. The point is, Ibrahim's workload is not unprecedented and he was only averaging around 20 carries earlier in the season before Morgan got hurt.
Has He complained about getting too much work?
 
MI is a beast and can clearly handle a heavy workload. Should have no issues with 35 carries a game.

The issue is the 14 carries on a 16 play drive. Late in a game..... that is reckless and just inviting injury.

I'd hope they are communicating with the young man and monitoring how his body is holding up. But now the final game is fairly meaningless, so should ABSOLUTELY keep him under 30 carries.
Will be interesting to see how they use him.

Oh and... Eff Fleck and Wisconsin too.
They were rolling him out for 30+ carries in games they won by 30 points. Obviously Fleck doesn’t give a sh1t what the situation is. He’ll have 35 carries in Madison.

If anything hurts his draft stock, it will be that he’s 24 years old, and was treated like a flat tire that was two blocks from home at Minnesota.
 
This is kind of like a pitch count. 20-30 years ago no one cared but times have changed and seeing correlations to over use and injuries. Just like a pitcher not wanting to give up the ball Ibrahim wants to stay in the game and carry it as much as he can and doesn’t care how many times he’s touched it. It’s up to the coaches to look out for the players best interest. Which with baseball we’ve seen managers pulling pitchers after 6 no hit innings with high pitch count where that would never happened in 70s, 80 or even 90s.

Ironically one of few times Ibrahim pulled himself was after a 1st down carry on last drive and seemed dinged up running off the field. Next play Potts got only a yard and the int came after that play. I’m sure pj would’ve given Ibrahim 50 Carries if it meant a W vs Iowa.
 
I was shocked at how much they used Ibrahim. And it’s a pattern, I know someone mentioned that Illinois game where Canzeri had 45, we were not doing that week in and week out…

Ibrahim has a lot of mileage, I’ll be interested to see what NFL teams think.

The week before Canzeri had 43 carries, he had 26, the week after he had 4 (Wadley had 26).
 
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