Most disappointing metric for Iowa wrestling

[CP84]

Brands has been at Iowa now for 10 seasons. Here is the list of Hawkeye national champs.

• Jay Borschel
• Matt McDonough (2x)
• Brent Metcalf (2x)
• Mark Perry (2x)
• Tony Ramos
• Derek St. John

Brands puts together good rosters every year as proven by never finishing worse than 5th at Nationals, however, this is a small list especially when you consider that he inherited Perry. Metcalf and Borschel were original recruits set to go to Va Tech with him.

So after his first year at Iowa, he's only recruited Ramos, DSJ and McDonough to national titles in the last 9 years.

It's not that surprising since we've recruited a lot of quality wrestlers but a shortage of top 10 pound for pound guys in that time span.

The good thing is that Tom seems to be addressing that with the commits of Kemerer (8), Marinelli (2), Lee (1) and Teasdale in recent years. There really isn't an excuse for a top tier program not to have at least one top 10 p4p guy per class.


Prior to that our best recruits per class in the last 5 years included the following:
2014: Stoll (14)
2013: Sorensen (27)
2012: Gilman (16)
2011: Klapprodt (55)
2010: Evans (4)

 

[andegre]

Brands has been at Iowa now for 10 seasons. Here is the list of Hawkeye national champs.

• Jay Borschel
• Matt McDonough (2x)
• Brent Metcalf (2x)
• Mark Perry (2x)
• Tony Ramos
• Derek St. John

Brands puts together good rosters every year as proven by never finishing worse than 5th at Nationals, however, this is a small list especially when you consider that he inherited Perry. Metcalf and Borschel were original recruits set to go to Va Tech with him.

So after his first year at Iowa, he's only recruited Ramos, DSJ and McDonough to national titles in the last 9 years.

It's not that surprising since we've recruited a lot of quality wrestlers but a shortage of top 10 pound for pound guys in that time span.

The good thing is that Tom seems to be addressing that with the commits of Kemerer (8), Marinelli (2), Lee (1) and Teasdale in recent years. There really isn't an excuse for a top tier program not to have at least one top 10 p4p guy per class.


Prior to that our best recruits per class in the last 5 years included the following:
2014: Stoll (14)
2013: Sorensen (27)
2012: Gilman (16)
2011: Klapprodt (55)
2010: Evans (4)

I believe Brooks was #20, right?

 

[CP84]

I believe Brooks was #20, right?

Yes but I just listed the top recruit per class. He came the same year as Gilman.

 

[andegre]

Yes but I just listed the top recruit per class. He came the same year as Gilman.

Ah, gotcha

 

[CP84]

Ah, gotcha

And this isn't to argue that there haven't been good recruiting classes during that stretch. That 2012 class was awesome despite not having a top p4p. They had Gilman, Brooks and Clark all in the top 25 and Meyer at 41. Skon (15) was actually Iowa's best rated recruit that year but he didn't make it.

You can win championships with classes like that but it's hard when you're going up against classes like this:

PSU: Nolf (4), Nevills (5), Nickal (7)

 

[pumpdog20]

Hopefully 2 more in Gilman an Clark get added to the list this year.

 

[Azchief32]

Brands has been at Iowa now for 10 seasons. Here is the list of Hawkeye national champs.

• Jay Borschel
• Matt McDonough (2x)
• Brent Metcalf (2x)
• Mark Perry (2x)
• Tony Ramos
• Derek St. John

Brands puts together good rosters every year as proven by never finishing worse than 5th at Nationals, however, this is a small list especially when you consider that he inherited Perry. Metcalf and Borschel were original recruits set to go to Va Tech with him.

So after his first year at Iowa, he's only recruited Ramos, DSJ and McDonough to national titles in the last 9 years.

It's not that surprising since we've recruited a lot of quality wrestlers but a shortage of top 10 pound for pound guys in that time span.

The good thing is that Tom seems to be addressing that with the commits of Kemerer (8), Marinelli (2), Lee (1) and Teasdale in recent years. There really isn't an excuse for a top tier program not to have at least one top 10 p4p guy per class.


Prior to that our best recruits per class in the last 5 years included the following:
2014: Stoll (14)
2013: Sorensen (27)
2012: Gilman (16)
2011: Klapprodt (55)
2010: Evans (4)

What's his name from Ohio...the one that was here for a cup of coffee? Think he was just outside of the top ten. That left a mark.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

We cant change history but the coaching staff is changing how they are doing things. Hopefully we will see the results of this in the next couple of years. We may well get a champ or 3 this year.

 

[EWCEWC60]

The last 10 years have belonged to Iowa and PSU. PSU w 5 titles and Iowa with 3 and 2 runner up showings in same span. Only Minnesota and Ohio State have 1 title in same time span.

We have done this with classes that are not as highly ranked. We should be ok w a hybrid formula of what has been done in the past. Develop some lower tiered recruits to elite status and sprinkle in p4p top recruits. Or let what Iowa is now doing come to fruition. Plant the seeds and watch the Garden......

 

[redghost1974]

What's his name from Ohio...the one that was here for a cup of coffee? Think he was just outside of the top ten. That left a mark.

Baldsoro or something like that?

 

[Azchief32]

Baldsoro or something like that?

Disregard...he named Skon up there. That's who I was trying to remember

 

[pablow]

As far as I'm concerned Daniel Dennis and Montell Marion are champions - add them on the metric.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

As far as I'm concerned Daniel Dennis and Montell Marion are champions - add them on the metric.

I get Marion. He got hosed but if i remember right Dennis lost fair and square. ?

 

[Vanillamostly]

I get Marion. He got hosed but if i remember right Dennis lost fair and square. ?

I wouldn't say Marion got "hosed." Plus, Dake ended up pretty decent if I remember correctly Dennis lost last second to Ness. Total heartbreaker.

 

[CP84]

Dennis was also a Zalesky recruit if I remember correctly.

 

[LaxHawk174]

I wouldn't say Marion got "hosed." Plus, Dake ended up pretty decent if I remember correctly Dennis lost last second to Ness. Total heartbreaker.

Marion's hosing was in the semi's his JR year, 2011 NCAAs. He had a clear TD on Russell in SV, twice. Other coaches even weighed in and said Marion got screwed. Russell went on to beat Novachkov in the finals.

 

[SCstunners]

I get Marion. He got hosed but if i remember right Dennis lost fair and square. ?

Dennis lost on the classic "Minnesota Injury Time"

 

[pablow]

IMO, for purposes of the "metric," Tom and Terry should get just as much credit for Dennis and Marion as the champs listed. Both were that good - (Dennis beat Franklin Gomez four straight and lost the championship in a fluke; Marion had amazing victories in the tournament over Jimmy Kennedy, Novachkov, Maple, and yes, Russell.)

 

[Gusaford]

Marion's hosing was in the semi's his JR year, 2011 NCAAs. He had a clear TD on Russell in SV, twice. Other coaches even weighed in and said Marion got screwed. Russell went on to beat Novachkov in the finals.

Bobby Douglas weighing in on the non-calls on Montell Marion's two takedowns on Kellen Russell. Very elucidating.

 

[rossel 33]

And this isn't to argue that there haven't been good recruiting classes during that stretch. That 2012 class was awesome despite not having a top p4p. They had Gilman, Brooks and Clark all in the top 25 and Meyer at 41. Skon (15) was actually Iowa's best rated recruit that year but he didn't make it.

You can win championships with classes like that but it's hard when you're going up against classes like this:

PSU: Nolf (4), Nevills (5), Nickal (7)

------
Excuse the long post, and I know much of this has been yammered on before, but....

The "awesome" class of 2012 for Iowa saw Skon as their highest rated recruit at #15, who left campus before wrestling a match iirc. After that, it was #16 Gilman, #20 Brooks, #23 Clark, and #41 Meyer. Not one of these guys was ranked as best in their weight class - Gilman was #4, Brooks #2, Clark #3, and Meyer #4.

This is striking in comparison to PSU, where a recruit is typically the #1 ranked guy in his weight class in HS, and many are top 10 p4p.

2016 class for Iowa got:
#3 Marinelli (only their 2nd top 10 guy in 6 years)
#19 Happel
#25 Young.
Solid, but none top ranked at their weight class not anything like PSU.

In 2016, PSU got 3 top ten p4p
#1 Hall
#2 Suriano
#5 Manville
Each was #1 in their respective HS weight class.

As most know, Hall handily beat Marinelli at Carver, and won a World Jr gold by TF. Suriano, a true fr is currently ranked #3.

As mentioned, top 10 guys for Iowa over the years has been sparse. One (#8 Kemerer) came in 2015. None in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014.

Those same years, 2011-15, saw PSU grab #1 McIntosh, #3 Megaludis, #3 Gulibon, #3 Retherford, #4 Nolf, #5 Nevills, #7 Nickal and #5 Vincenzo.

The class of 2017 is a welcome departure for Iowa, grabbing 2 top 10 guys in #1 Lee and #8 Warner. Hopefully this trend will continue. PSU is not letting up, getting two top 10 guys as well, #5 N Lee and #7 Berge.

These types of guys are big impact wrestlers, some are AA caliber right out of HS (e.g. Hall). Getting some of these is critical for Iowa's future success. The days of developing a #92 ranked guy who's #8 at their weight class in hopes of getting him to AA status as a 5th year sr just isn't cutting it, imho.

Here's to the future.... 2019 and beyond!!!

 

[GatorBacon]

I wouldn't say Marion got "hosed." Plus, Dake ended up pretty decent if I remember correctly Dennis lost last second to Ness. Total heartbreaker.

You're saying Jayson was tired and needed a break? He didn't get a knee to the head? You people are amazing. Just when I thought the stupidity level had peaked...

 

[mike tognetti]

You're saying Jayson was tired and needed a break? He didn't get a knee to the head? You people are amazing. Just when I thought the stupidity level had peaked...

Relax GB, enjoy, it's comedy hour all day long over here.

 

[pablow]

Relax GB, enjoy, it's comedy hour all day long over here.

Mike, I see your post @ 4:45 AM. Up late or paper route?

 

[championhawk]

------
Excuse the long post, and I know much of this has been yammered on before, but....

The "awesome" class of 2012 for Iowa saw Skon as their highest rated recruit at #15, who left campus before wrestling a match iirc. After that, it was #16 Gilman, #20 Brooks, #23 Clark, and #41 Meyer. Not one of these guys was ranked as best in their weight class - Gilman was #4, Brooks #2, Clark #3, and Meyer #4.

This is striking in comparison to PSU, where a recruit is typically the #1 ranked guy in his weight class in HS, and many are top 10 p4p.

2016 class for Iowa got:
#3 Marinelli (only their 2nd top 10 guy in 6 years)
#19 Happel
#25 Young.
Solid, but none top ranked at their weight class not anything like PSU.

In 2016, PSU got 3 top ten p4p
#1 Hall
#2 Suriano
#5 Manville
Each was #1 in their respective HS weight class.

As most know, Hall handily beat Marinelli at Carver, and won a World Jr gold by TF. Suriano, a true fr is currently ranked #3.

As mentioned, top 10 guys for Iowa over the years has been sparse. One (#8 Kemerer) came in 2015. None in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014.

Those same years, 2011-15, saw PSU grab #1 McIntosh, #3 Megaludis, #3 Gulibon, #3 Retherford, #4 Nolf, #5 Nevills, #7 Nickal and #5 Vincenzo.

The class of 2017 is a welcome departure for Iowa, grabbing 2 top 10 guys in #1 Lee and #8 Warner. Hopefully this trend will continue. PSU is not letting up, getting two top 10 guys as well, #5 N Lee and #7 Berge.

These types of guys are big impact wrestlers, some are AA caliber right out of HS (e.g. Hall). Getting some of these is critical for Iowa's future success. The days of developing a #92 ranked guy who's #8 at their weight class in hopes of getting him to AA status as a 5th year sr just isn't cutting it, imho.

Here's to the future.... 2019 and beyond!!!

Good honest post. Now can we copy and paste it since for some reason this same shit needs rehashed at least 3 times a week. Maybe Tom can make it a sticky?

 

[Impossible Is Nothing]

Brands has been at Iowa now for 10 seasons. Here is the list of Hawkeye national champs.

• Jay Borschel
• Matt McDonough (2x)
• Brent Metcalf (2x)
• Mark Perry (2x)
• Tony Ramos
• Derek St. John

Brands puts together good rosters every year as proven by never finishing worse than 5th at Nationals, however, this is a small list especially when you consider that he inherited Perry. Metcalf and Borschel were original recruits set to go to Va Tech with him.

So after his first year at Iowa, he's only recruited Ramos, DSJ and McDonough to national titles in the last 9 years.

It's not that surprising since we've recruited a lot of quality wrestlers but a shortage of top 10 pound for pound guys in that time span.

The good thing is that Tom seems to be addressing that with the commits of Kemerer (8), Marinelli (2), Lee (1) and Teasdale in recent years. There really isn't an excuse for a top tier program not to have at least one top 10 p4p guy per class.


Prior to that our best recruits per class in the last 5 years included the following:
2014: Stoll (14)
2013: Sorensen (27)
2012: Gilman (16)
2011: Klapprodt (55)
2010: Evans (4)

For context, here are the top 10 teams in terms of individual NCs over the last 10 years:

1. Penn State - 12 (Ruth 3x, Taylor 2x, Wright 2x, Megaludis, Retherford, Molinaro, Brown, Davis)
2. Cornell - 11 (Dake 4x, Dean 2x, Nickerson, Garrett, Leen, Bosak, Simaz)
3. Ohio State - 10 (Stieber 4x, Jaggers 2x, Tomasello, Martin, Pucillo, Snyder)
T4. Iowa - 9
T4. Oklahoma State - 9 (Dieringer 3x, Perry 2x, Oliver 2x, Scott, Heil)
T6. Iowa State - 6 (Varner 2x, Paulson, Reader, Gadson, Zabriskie)
T6. Missouri - 6 (Cox 2x, Houdashelt, B. Askren, M. Askren, Ellis)
T8. Illinois - 4 (Delgado 2x, Martinez 2x)
T8. Minnesota - 4 (Nelson 2x, Ness, Konrad)
T8. Northwestern - 4 (Herbert 2x, Tsirtsis, Fox)

For what it's worth, Iowa is the only team in the top five without a three- or four-timer during this span.

 

[pablow]

Boy the negativity and PSU envy is heavy this week.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

You're saying Jayson was tired and needed a break? He didn't get a knee to the head? You people are amazing. Just when I thought the stupidity level had peaked...

Go find a hungry gator and become bacon.

 

[EWCEWC60]

For context, here are the top 10 teams in terms of individual NCs over the last 10 years:

1. Penn State - 12 (Ruth 3x, Taylor 2x, Wright 2x, Megaludis, Retherford, Molinaro, Brown, Davis)
2. Cornell - 11 (Dake 4x, Dean 2x, Nickerson, Garrett, Leen, Bosak, Simaz)
3. Ohio State - 10 (Stieber 4x, Jaggers 2x, Tomasello, Martin, Pucillo, Snyder)
T4. Iowa - 9
T4. Oklahoma State - 9 (Dieringer 3x, Perry 2x, Oliver 2x, Scott, Heil)
T6. Iowa State - 6 (Varner 2x, Paulson, Reader, Gadson, Zabriskie)
T6. Missouri - 6 (Cox 2x, Houdashelt, B. Askren, M. Askren, Ellis)
T8. Illinois - 4 (Delgado 2x, Martinez 2x)
T8. Minnesota - 4 (Nelson 2x, Ness, Konrad)
T8. Northwestern - 4 (Herbert 2x, Tsirtsis, Fox)

For what it's worth, Iowa is the only team in the top five without a three- or four-timer during this span.

Funny that those #'s do not equal to more National team titles other than PSU w 5 titles. Iowa next w 3 and then Minnesota and Ohio State both w 1 title per team.

Cornell and Oklahoma State have 20 national champs between them and 0 team titles in that same time span...

Just an observation...

 

[CP84]

Boy the negativity and PSU envy is heavy this week.

That's a mischaracterization.

The future is looking good with Marinelli, Kemerer, Young, Lee, Warner and Teasdale.

That being said, I think it's appropriate to point out what hasn't worked the past several seasons and to acknowledge what the team that has been winning, PSU, has been doing right.

 

[neversurrender]

Love that we are getting the top tier guys now. Now we just need to hope they stay healthy, don't transfer, and actually become the top level guys. Hunter Stiebler was a great recruit and couldn't stay health, not sure he was top 10 though. We've talked many times about guys like Gulibon, or a guy like Destin McCaulley who comes in with the expectations of winning numerous titles and they just never pan out.