MSU rehash: roughing the punter

[anon_i8nzeu2gbf0ba]

Finally rewatched most of the Big Ten title game. If you've done it, you know how hard that is. There are dozens of plays that would have changed the outcome. So close so many times....

But I finally decided that the decision to go for the blocked punt in the third quarter may be the one that killed the Hawkeyes. Without that penalty, Iowa has the ball at its own 42. But after the penalty, MSU runs some more plays before finally punting again, and Iowa takes over at its own 12. A three and out and the D is back on the field with MSU in good field position that leads to a FG.

Yes, the players made the mistake, although the penalty was at least questionable. The punter had both feet on the ground after punting before Iowa players made minimal contact. But what cannot be debated is that it was the coaching decision that led to this result. If the Iowa coaches let MSU punt, the Iowa offense is almost at midfield and a modest drive yields at least a FG and keeps MSU from getting a FG of its own.

I still feel like Iowa outplayed MSU and could have put the game away so that any final drive by the Spartans wouldn't have mattered. The Iowa defense was magnificent and didn't deserve that ending.

If Conservative Kirk would simply have stayed that way for that punt....

 

[Freyvet]

Finally rewatched most of the Big Ten title game. If you've done it, you know how hard that is. There are dozens of plays that would have changed the outcome. So close so many times....

But I finally decided that the decision to go for the blocked punt in the third quarter may be the one that killed the Hawkeyes. Without that penalty, Iowa has the ball at its own 42. But after the penalty, MSU runs some more plays before finally punting again, and Iowa takes over at its own 12. A three and out and the D is back on the field with MSU in good field position that leads to a FG.

Yes, the players made the mistake, although the penalty was at least questionable. The punter had both feet on the ground after punting before Iowa players made minimal contact. But what cannot be debated is that it was the coaching decision that led to this result. If the Iowa coaches let MSU punt, the Iowa offense is almost at midfield and a modest drive yields at least a FG and keeps MSU from getting a FG of its own.

I still feel like Iowa outplayed MSU and could have put the game away so that any final drive by the Spartans wouldn't have mattered. The Iowa defense was magnificent and didn't deserve that ending.

If Conservative Kirk would simply have stayed that way

Things happen in Real Time! Just trying to make a play - next play - move on!

 

[SirLawrence44]

Finally rewatched most of the Big Ten title game. If you've done it, you know how hard that is. There are dozens of plays that would have changed the outcome. So close so many times....

But I finally decided that the decision to go for the blocked punt in the third quarter may be the one that killed the Hawkeyes. Without that penalty, Iowa has the ball at its own 42. But after the penalty, MSU runs some more plays before finally punting again, and Iowa takes over at its own 12. A three and out and the D is back on the field with MSU in good field position that leads to a FG.

Yes, the players made the mistake, although the penalty was at least questionable. The punter had both feet on the ground after punting before Iowa players made minimal contact. But what cannot be debated is that it was the coaching decision that led to this result. If the Iowa coaches let MSU punt, the Iowa offense is almost at midfield and a modest drive yields at least a FG and keeps MSU from getting a FG of its own.

I still feel like Iowa outplayed MSU and could have put the game away so that any final drive by the Spartans wouldn't have mattered. The Iowa defense was magnificent and didn't deserve that ending.

If Conservative Kirk would simply have stayed that way for that punt....

 

[SirLawrence44]

I agree. Had we been behind and needing a spark, then I say go for the block.

 

[broth87]

That was definitely a big play in the game and the change in field position was crippling for us.
But I think the holding penalty on the throw to Vandenberg was a great play by MSU that saved the game for them. And then the garbage their offensive line got away with on that last drive was absurd. Horrendous officiating in crunch time and I really hope behind closed doors they were reprimanded for swallowing their whistles in the face of very obvious penalties.
The reality of that game is this. Neither team was putting a clean 22 play drive together against the other the way both teams were defending. Anyone who thinks Michigan State executed a great drive is fooling themselves.

 

[HawkinMN]

To me that was the turning point as well, even over INT in the end zone. I said to myself after the punt this would come back and bite us.

 

[LinusPF]

If I remember correctly it was fourth and four correct? So a "running into" the punter call (which I think it was) would have still been a first down?

 

[Hawk_4shur]

The decision to go for the block can not be debated? Of course it can.

Whatever happened to "playing to win" instead of not to lose? How big of a play would a blocked punt be at that point in the game? We weren't getting yards in the return game, so why not go for it? Of course, players are coached to not rough the punter, but they make mistakes.

Apparently the coaches are supposed to play to win, but not risk mistakes? How does that work?

 

[luvmyhawks]

The decision to go for the block can not be debated? Of course it can.

Whatever happened to "playing to win" instead of not to lose? How big of a play would a blocked punt be at that point in the game? We weren't getting yards in the return game, so why not go for it? Of course, players are coached to not rough the punter, but they make mistakes.

Apparently the coaches are supposed to play to win, but not risk mistakes? How does that work?

This. Playing to win. I like it. Some of you will never be happy around here. I agree that if the hawks would have gotten the block, it would have been way bigger than the penalty was.

 

[ichawk24]

Kirk can't win. Now he plays to win and gets dinged.

The play occurred on 4th and 5. I didn't review the distance, but others have said it was a short 5 and a "running into" would have given them the first down.

 

[KuwaitHawk]

I thought it more than five to go giving MSU a 4th and short

 

[KFsdisciple]

The issue for me wasn't play call or execution... It was a judgment call that could have gone uncalled and I don't think the announcers would have made a deal of it... In a game full of physical play and hard hits the softest hit of the night drew a BS flag

 

[10kHawk]

When I watched it bower gave the punter a leg whip probably would still be called but maybe not. Mends ran into the punter pretty badly if you watch you see he stumbles as he begins to rush and loses control, if not probably wouldn't of hit him.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I liked the call to go for it. I seriously thought we were gonna get it, but then when we hit the punter it sucked! The play that bothers me is the 3rd and 8 w/5:54 left in the 4th quarter. That was a perfect throw and an even better catch. I can guarantee you that MD punts the ball away there and we get the ball again (not that our offense could of done anything) but at least it would of been allowed to give our defense a little bit of break. Then we could of punted it back to them and they would of been forced to throw the ball.

I just look at our poor offense execution in the 2nd half. That is what killed us, I mean a 50+ to 13 plays run in the 2nd half was the difference. Our defense played very well, but to be on the field that long, thats tough.

 

[mvhomerj]

Rose Bowl.

 

[OnceAhawk]

is the replay on you tube?

 

[broth87]

Field position hurt our offense the whole second half, same as it did against Wisconsin. One area our staff can target for improvement is execution ans play calling when buried so we don't sacrifice field position for extended periods of time. That and the continued evolution of our running game. We saw tremendous improvement in that area and I think that was a HUGE part of our success this year. A lot more pressing th the edge and moving linemen. Really hope we continue to evolve there within the zone scheme. I think Brian Ferentz was a big part of all that.

 

[And1Hawk]

Fact of the matter is we struggled to run the ball against MSU. We had a season low 52 yards. We also struggled to run the ball inside against Nebraska the week before. Both MSU & Nebby had big, physical D tackles. The next step in our evolution in order to get over the top is to be able to run the ball against these types of D-Lines. Had we made the playoffs, Bama would have a similar front.

 

[HoundedHawk]

The call was fine. I liked it.

The execution was horrible. The guy had absolutely no chance to block, dove from like 5 yards away and still managed to roll all the way to the punter. He should have kept his feet. But he's the guy that blocked another punt this year and seemed kind of blinded to try no matter what distance he was away.

 

[Floyd_Of_Rosedale]

is the replay on you tube?

1:18:18

 

[OnceAhawk]

1:18:18

View embedded media

thank you!

 

[Capital1Hawk]

I have no remorse in this loss. Players played their hearts out and came up a little short. Hope they play at this level in the rose bowl. Hope we roll the cards. Go Hawks

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Field position hurt our offense the whole second half, same as it did against Wisconsin. One area our staff can target for improvement is execution ans play calling when buried so we don't sacrifice field position for extended periods of time. That and the continued evolution of our running game. We saw tremendous improvement in that area and I think that was a HUGE part of our success this year. A lot more pressing th the edge and moving linemen. Really hope we continue to evolve there within the zone scheme. I think Brian Ferentz was a big part of all that.

Sure, teams can always improve in all areas, but I wouldn't pick this as a focus. This team had more 85+ yard drives than any Iowa team I can ever remember.

 

[broth87]

Sure, teams can always improve in all areas, but I wouldn't pick this as a focus. This team had more 85+ yard drives than any Iowa team I can ever remember.

You're missing my point though. We had game where we got buried for extended periods of time. Whole quarters because we get very conservative when we get placed in that spot. I understand the cautionness but it's something we need to look at and improve on in my opinion.

 

[broth87]

Fact of the matter is we struggled to run the ball against MSU. We had a season low 52 yards. We also struggled to run the ball inside against Nebraska the week before. Both MSU & Nebby had big, physical D tackles. The next step in our evolution in order to get over the top is to be able to run the ball against these types of D-Lines. Had we made the playoffs, Bama would have a similar front.

Canzeri getting hurt had a bit of an impact ppb that. I thought wadley ran well. But I think our staff knew running would be tough and we tried to pass to open the run and because of the way the game played out, we just didn't run many plays or find any rhythm in the run game.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

You're missing my point though. We had game where we got buried for extended periods of time. Whole quarters because we get very conservative when we get placed in that spot. I understand the cautionness but it's something we need to look at and improve on in my opinion.

No, I don't think I missed your point, and I have no problem whatsoever with your comment or your opinion. I'm simply suggesting that digging themselves out of a hole was a strength of this team for most of the year. They just couldn't get it done every time.

Just watched the replay of the Minny game. Our first possession was inside the ten and the Hawks drove the length of the field for a TD. My recollection is that was a fairly common occurrence.

Of course, they can always get better.

 

[MadDogC]

The decision to go for the block can not be debated? Of course it can.

Whatever happened to "playing to win" instead of not to lose? How big of a play would a blocked punt be at that point in the game? We weren't getting yards in the return game, so why not go for it? Of course, players are coached to not rough the punter, but they make mistakes.

Apparently the coaches are supposed to play to win, but not risk mistakes? How does that work?

This cost us games in 2006, KF said after second one--northwestern i believe--that he'd have to re-evaluate going after blocks. Then we roughed FL punter anyway, with roughly two minutes left in the half--they went and scored. The refs were gonna cost us that game it appeared but was bad decision either way--and we lost by seven...

 

[mthawkeyes]

If I remember correctly it was fourth and four correct? So a "running into" the punter call (which I think it was) would have still been a first down?

It was 4th and a little more than 5.

 

[RockEyeState]

Iowa's Coaching staff should be the Coaching Staff of the year in 2015.

However, no one ever gets them all right. I have to think that the
Assistant that called the Punt block in the 2nd half at Indy, wishes he could
'have a do over'.

 

[hbthawks]

I still say that the biggest play was in 4th quarter, after Iowa's TD and Mich ST punted back to Iowa it was that defensive holding against Vandenberg. That should have been pass interference. If he doesn't get held, he catches a long pass for either a TD or deep in MiSt territory. Instead its only a 5 yard penalty. Iowa doesn't pick up another first. If its a PI they get 10 more yards and they are in FG range .

 

[ichawk24]

Defensive holding is 10 yards and a first down, PI is 15 and a first down. Defensive holding was the correct call anyways, as he held Vandeberg before the ball was thrown.

Now that I got to see it on youtube, the blocked punt occurred on 4th and slightly more than 5. A "running into" would have been 5 yards, but I can't complain about the roughing call. We had two guys tumbling into the punter, not giving him a safe chance to land.

I disagree with the supposed conservative playcalling when we had a long field. The Tevaun TD was throwing a bomb from our own 15.

 

[MAXIMUSHAWKEYE]

That was definitely a big play in the game and the change in field position was crippling for us.
But I think the holding penalty on the throw to Vandenberg was a great play by MSU that saved the game for them. And then the garbage their offensive line got away with on that last drive was absurd. Horrendous officiating in crunch time and I really hope behind closed doors they were reprimanded for swallowing their whistles in the face of very obvious penalties.
The reality of that game is this. Neither team was putting a clean 22 play drive together against the other the way both teams were defending. Anyone who thinks Michigan State executed a great drive is fooling themselves.

I truly beleive games can easily be fixed. Iowa just doesn't have
of the cache yet to be a team that gets to play for a NC. The powers that be don't want a team like Iowa crashing their NC playoff party. If KF can string some strong seasons together..Maybe.

 

[notlongago]

It was a good call.

Also, MSU can watch the tape and point to a handful of plays that if properly executed, they win by 14-17 points.

 

[Floyd_Of_Rosedale]

It was a good call.

Also, MSU can watch the tape and point to a handful of plays that if properly executed, they win by 14-17 points.

Either team could have won by 14-17 points if....if....if.

It all came down to the stretch of an arm.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

Idk, God Bless ya if you are able to walk away from this game accepting the loss and moving on. You're probably doing something right.

Those of us who are upset -surprisingly few, btw - have used words like flagrant and blatant to describe the holding on Jewell. Thing is, it was even much worse than that. It was the worst, period. A lot of times a player is held because he is about to make a play or a tackle. Well, Jewell was making a tackle before he himself got tackled.

I've heard MSU fans referring to the play as "The Reach." How about "The Reach, The Grab, and The Tackle."

 

[Floyd_Of_Rosedale]

Idk, God Bless ya if you are able to walk away from this game accepting the loss and moving on. You're probably doing something right.

What is the alternative?

I think the idea is for the 'TEAM' to move on and win the Rose Bowl.....you are welcomed to let the play haunt YOU as long as you wish.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

It was a great game and yes there were missed calls both ways. I realize people are upset with the refs, but we killed ourselves. I am sorry there is no way you can defend a 50+ plays run to only 13 in the 2nd half.

That is the difference in the game. MSU played their game and kept the ball out of Iowa's hands in the 2nd half. They took control and were able to move the chains and keep the ball. Iowa was pinned deep in their territory and after already having 2 turnovers, the coaches played the game very conservative. They also HAD to, because of MSU front 7. They were very tough and forced us out of our game.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I truly beleive games can easily be fixed. Iowa just doesn't have
of the cache yet to be a team that gets to play for a NC. The powers that be don't want a team like Iowa crashing their NC playoff party. If KF can string some strong seasons together..Maybe.

If you truly believe this, how can you even watch sports? Why even bother rooting for a team that has no chance because the outcome has been pre-determined? And, who exactly are these "powers that be"? And, how exactly have these puppeteers been able to keep all this under wraps? No one wanted to make millions by writing a book?

Or, perhaps they use a Jedi mind trick and the perpetrators don't even know they are helping them?

Well, the PTB's (powers that be) were sweating this one out because the Hawks came within an eyelash of winning this game.

 

[JBJRFL]

The call was fine. I liked it.

The execution was horrible. The guy had absolutely no chance to block, dove from like 5 yards away and still managed to roll all the way to the punter. He should have kept his feet. But he's the guy that blocked another punt this year and seemed kind of blinded to try no matter what distance he was away.

If you watch carefully you will see that Bower came across horizontally and did not touch the punter until Mends dove through the middle and hit him rolling him through the punter and then Mends also rolled through the punter. Freshman mistake.

 

[artradley]

The decision to go for the block can not be debated? Of course it can.

Whatever happened to "playing to win" instead of not to lose? How big of a play would a blocked punt be at that point in the game? We weren't getting yards in the return game, so why not go for it? Of course, players are coached to not rough the punter, but they make mistakes.

Apparently the coaches are supposed to play to win, but not risk mistakes? How does that work?

Risks are fine, but you have to measure risk vs reward. The reward didn't seem to justify the reward, so I considered it to be a bad decision even as I was watching the play unfold. There just wasn't a need at the time.

That said, IMO opinion the single biggest play that went against us was the deliberate pass interference -- I mean "holding" -- call which absolutely stopped a long TD pass and replaced it with a simple 10 yard penalty.

That was a killer.