Murder is the case that America has given you....

[HawktimusPrime]

The reason why people, who are sane, understand that blaming guns is not the reason to truly look for in helping to end this madness is simple.

Murder, the word murder is what you need to look at.

-Why does someone want to MURDER people?
-Why is someone willing to throw their lives away to MURDER people?
-Why do they have the mindset to MURDER people?
-How in this society is the need to MURDER continually being bred?
-Why is MURDER so rampant?
-Why do HUMANS want to MURDER people?

Instead of focusing on 'gun nuts'. Let's focus on MURDER nuts. Why are people going so f'n crazy, that they feel the need to MURDER multiple people at once. Where does the anger come from that drives them to MURDER come from? Why does it seem to be multiplying? When will the urge/need to MURDER stop?

Do guns possess people into wanting to MURDER others? Or could the SANE answer be, that the need to MURDER is the real problem?

Why is LIFE no longer important enough, to figure out why people want to MURDER each other? How many guns have MURDEROUS rage? None. How many people have MURDEROUS rage? Too many.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

The reason why people, who are sane, understand that blaming guns is not the reason to truly look for in helping to end this madness is simple.

Murder, the word murder is what you need to look at.

-Why does someone want to MURDER people?
-Why is someone willing to throw their lives away to MURDER people?
-Why do they have the mindset to MURDER people?
-How in this society is the need to MURDER continually being bred?
-Why is MURDER so rampant?
-Why do HUMANS want to MURDER people?

Instead of focusing on 'gun nuts'. Let's focus on MURDER nuts. Why are people going so f'n crazy, that they feel the need to MURDER multiple people at once. Where does the anger come from that drives them to MURDER come from? Why does it seem to be multiplying? When will the urge/need to MURDER stop?

Do guns possess people into wanting to MURDER others? Or could the SANE answer be, that the need to MURDER is the real problem?

Why is LIFE no longer important enough, to figure out why people want to MURDER each other? How many guns have MURDEROUS rage? None. How many people have MURDEROUS rage? Too many.

First of all are we talking about randomly killing people mass shooter murder or are we talking about serial killer murders or are we talking about just everyday run of the mill murders?

Secondly the better question is why is it that the US has way more of these "murder nuts" then any other developed nation.

Then perhaps it's also important to discuss why it's so freaking easy for murder nuts to get ahold of "tools" who's sole designed practical purpose was to kill or severely injure either a human or an animal.

It's not the gun nuts I'm worried about. . . the people who like to have 80 guns locked in a cabinet in their house are ok by me. What I'm worried about is that these gun nuts who have political power are so insanely paranoid about the guberment taking some of their 80 guns away or preventing them from buying more guns that they actually enable the murder nuts to get ahold of killing tools which they like to use on their fellow man.

They also enable the gun moron who leaves his glock loaded on his kitchen table with a 2 year old in the house.

 

[22*43*51]

Secondly the better question is why is it that the US has way more of these "murder nuts" then any other developed nation.

Per Capita we're not even in the top 5.

http://archive.is/f4gbv

Additionally, the top 5 have significantly more restrictive gun laws than the us.

A couple are the often admired, northern European Socialist countries.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Per Capita we're not even in the top 5.

http://archive.is/f4gbv

First of all I would want to know the operational definition of a "rampage shooting"

Secondly I would point out that per capita doesn't work very well here because 1 very successful shooter in a small country would make the numbers inflated verses a whole host of ok shooters in other countries. I believe that's likely what happened with Norway for example.

A better way to look at it would be the # of rampage shooters or # of rampage shooting incidents per capita rather then the number of victims. I'm pretty sure based on the data given there (even though I don't see an operational definition of "rampage shooting") it would make the US the clear #1 by far.

Also updating for 2014 is a dead link.

 

[22*43*51]

Secondly the better question is why is it that the US has way more of these "murder nuts" then any other developed nation.

Per Capita we're not even in the top 5.

http://archive.is/f4gbv

First of all I would want to know the operational definition of a "rampage shooting"

Secondly I would point out that per capita doesn't work very well here because 1 very successful shooter in a small country would make the numbers inflated verses a whole host of ok shooters in other countries. I believe that's likely what happened with Norway for example.

A better way to look at it would be the # of rampage shooters or # of rampage shooting incidents per capita rather then the number of victims. I'm pretty sure based on the data given there (even though I don't see an operational definition of "rampage shooting") it would make the US the clear #1 by far.

Also updating for 2014 is a dead link.

I know that it challenges your skewed belief system, but Politifact agrees with me.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

 

[The Tradition]

First of all I would want to know the operational definition of a "rampage shooting"

Secondly I would point out that per capita doesn't work very well here because 1 very successful shooter in a small country would make the numbers inflated verses a whole host of ok shooters in other countries. I believe that's likely what happened with Norway for example.

A better way to look at it would be the # of rampage shooters or # of rampage shooting incidents per capita rather then the number of victims. I'm pretty sure based on the data given there (even though I don't see an operational definition of "rampage shooting") it would make the US the clear #1 by far.

Also updating for 2014 is a dead link.

Per capita is the wrong way to look at things? Good grief. They show the total number of shooting incidents, too.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Per capita is the wrong way to look at things? Good grief. They show the total number of shooting incidents, too.

The table organizes then in terms of per capita per fatalities. Like I pointed out that skews it because a "successful" shooter in a very small country like Norway makes it look like Norway is the rampage shooter capital of the world.

To be accurate it should be incidents per capita or rampage shooters per capita.

To be fair it does list total number of incidents but it doesn't even provide the data set of incidents per capita or # of shooters per capita.

The thread is about the murder nuts and why they do what they do remember? Not the victims. So why does the US have more murder nuts then any other country on a per capita basis.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Per Capita we're not even in the top 5.

http://archive.is/f4gbv


I know that it challenges your skewed belief system, but Politifact agrees with me.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

I'm not arguing that it never happens in other countries. I'm simply pointing out that to really get at what we're looking at. "Does the US have more rampage shooters or shootings then other developed nations on a per person basis" then you can't look at just FATALITIES per capita. You have to look at the number incidents or the number of shooters per capita.

The table you provided specifically does this in terms of fatalities per capita. That table proves nothing other then Norway is a small country and it had 1 very successful rampage shooter who apparently killed 77 people.

The US had 38 incidents by their definition. The next largest number of incidents? 3 in Germany.

So again I ask you. . . Why does the US have more MURDER NUTS then other countries. We're not looking at victims here remember we're looking at the murder nuts. Why do we have more perps of these rampage shootings per capita then any other country.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Yeah, some of those top countries have problems with violence, mostly with domestic violence, because it is cold, dark and miserable for a stretch of the year.

 

[HawktimusPrime]

First of all are we talking about randomly killing people mass shooter murder or are we talking about serial killer murders or are we talking about just everyday run of the mill murders?

Secondly the better question is why is it that the US has way more of these "murder nuts" then any other developed nation.

Then perhaps it's also important to discuss why it's so freaking easy for murder nuts to get ahold of "tools" who's sole designed practical purpose was to kill or severely injure either a human or an animal.

It's not the gun nuts I'm worried about. . . the people who like to have 80 guns locked in a cabinet in their house are ok by me. What I'm worried about is that these gun nuts who have political power are so insanely paranoid about the guberment taking some of their 80 guns away or preventing them from buying more guns that they actually enable the murder nuts to get ahold of killing tools which they like to use on their fellow man.

They also enable the gun moron who leaves his glock loaded on his kitchen table with a 2 year old in the house.

Your last statement is personal responsibility. Something that people in this country like to pass off onto others. It's never about the fault of who does something, but how to make excuses for their actions and find more to blame.

 

[theIowaHawk]

The reason why people, who are sane, understand that blaming guns is not the reason to truly look for in helping to end this madness is simple.

Murder, the word murder is what you need to look at.

-Why does someone want to MURDER people?
-Why is someone willing to throw their lives away to MURDER people?
-Why do they have the mindset to MURDER people?
-How in this society is the need to MURDER continually being bred?
-Why is MURDER so rampant?
-Why do HUMANS want to MURDER people?

Instead of focusing on 'gun nuts'. Let's focus on MURDER nuts. Why are people going so f'n crazy, that they feel the need to MURDER multiple people at once. Where does the anger come from that drives them to MURDER come from? Why does it seem to be multiplying? When will the urge/need to MURDER stop?

Do guns possess people into wanting to MURDER others? Or could the SANE answer be, that the need to MURDER is the real problem?

Why is LIFE no longer important enough, to figure out why people want to MURDER each other? How many guns have MURDEROUS rage? None. How many people have MURDEROUS rage? Too many.

One, believing that the want to MURDER is some type of psychological issue is both simplistic and pointless. The choice to MURDER is often, and usually, a completely rational one. By thinking that it isn't you give it an "out", which is precisely what a large segment of the population does every time there is a (non-"terrorist") shooting = blame it on "crazy".

People who want to murder (a completely human, historical trait) do so because of specific acts, reasons, beliefs, ideologies, etc., not because they simply "want to murder". Often you can never decipher "why", and that scares people, so they just believe there is "crazy" or "evil" in the world to placate themselves.

Guns, weapons of any kind are simply tools. Many tools are already made illegal due to their inherent deadliness. You can't buy enriched uranium, you can't buy or build a rail gun in your backyard, you can't simply go to Walgreens and buy obvious poisons (although you still can with a lot of stuff), you can't even buy/modify certain kinds of firearms. Why? Because "we" decided that they are inherently more "deadly" when utilized as tools.

My stance on the 2A has been made very clear on here, and I go further in wanting to protect it than any of you. But to believe that we should be eradicating MURDER instead of discussing one of the tools being used in the murder is pointless. We can't stop MURDER, MURDER is a very human response, it isn't crazy, it isn't evil, it is a response to specific circumstances. If you don't believe that, ask yourself what your first response is to someone murdering your child, is it to MURDER them? Naturally.

This Planned Parenthood guy likely isn't "crazy" in the sense that a chemical imbalance has led his actions and can be righted through medication, he wants to protect (stop MURDERS!) these unborn "babies", and he felt the best way to do so was to commit MURDER. That is a rational thought process, even if you disagree with it. How could you stop this? Commit him? No. Take away his guns? Not if many posters on here have their say.

Some of you have a lot of guns. I don't fault you for that. The American citizen who committed the San Bernadino murders had a lot of guns. Should we be watching you?

 

[22*43*51]

I'm simply pointing out that to really get at what we're looking at. "Does the US have more rampage shooters or shootings then other developed nations on a per person basis" then you can't look at just FATALITIES per capita.

Can you not get at that with the same data?

You certainly aren't implying that one rampage shooter carried out multiple mass shooting incidents?

I assumed there was in most cases one Nut per incident. So, the Nut per capita would be the same as listed.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Your last statement is personal responsibility. Something that people in this country like to pass off onto others. It's never about the fault of who does something, but how to make excuses for their actions and find more to blame.

Ok fair enough. . . so would you personally be in favor of laws similar to what this man describes.

http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/06/bang-bang-sanity.html?m=1

It's a bit of a read but you want to skip ahead start reading where he says "Well, we make the NRA's own rules federal law." that will give you an understanding.

 

[22*43*51]

Ok fair enough. . . so would you personally be in favor of laws similar to what this man describes.

http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/06/bang-bang-sanity.html?m=1

It's a bit of a read but you want to skip ahead start reading where he says "Well, we make the NRA's own rules federal law." that will give you an understanding.

Don't go Moonbat on us. This was a good discussion.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Can you not get at that with the same data?

You certainly aren't implying that one rampage shooter carried out multiple mass shooting incidents?

I assumed there was in most cases one Nut per incident. So, the Nut per capita would be the same as listed.

The last shootings there was 2 nuts. Just saying.

But I object to ordering the table based on fatalities and not doing based on incidents per capita.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Don't go Moonbat on us. This was a good discussion.

I don't think it's moonbat, to break it down here are his suggestions.

1.Anyone who picks up a gun is responsible for its condition. No excuses. Misdemeanor for failure to know the condition of your weapon if only property damage is involved, felony negligence if somebody is injured including yourself, manslaughter if somebody dies.

2. Misdemeanor for failure to point your weapon in a safe direction, for unintentional discharge, for failure to properly maintain and use safety systems if only property damage is involved. Felony negligence if somebody is injured including yourself. Felony manslaughter if somebody dies.

3. Just like drinking and driving, you’re caught drinking with a gun, you take a breathalyzer or a blood test. We don’t need any new standards, the ones for DUI will work just fine. You’re intoxicated with a gun? You go to jail. And we impound your weapons. Somebody is injured? Aggravated assault. Somebody is killed? Negligent homicide. You’re operating a killing machine, I don’t think sobriety is too much to ask.

4. Conviction on misdemeanor gun safety charges? You lose the privilege for a specified period. You engage in remedial action? You prove you’ve learned your lesson? You prove you’ll be a responsible gun owner in the future? You get your guns back. Happens again, you lose the privilege forever. We don’t give drunk drivers more than two strikes either.

Conviction on felony gun handling charges? You lose the privilege. Period. Your name goes in the federal database and you never own or operate a gun again, this includes cops and military.

 

[22*43*51]

The last shootings there was 2 nuts.

I classify that as international Terrorism, due to International forces being involved.

That one's root cause is poor National Security policy.

 

[22*43*51]

I don't think it's moonbat, to break it down here are his suggestions.

1.Anyone who picks up a gun is responsible for its condition. No excuses. Misdemeanor for failure to know the condition of your weapon if only property damage is involved, felony negligence if somebody is injured including yourself, manslaughter if somebody dies.

2. Misdemeanor for failure to point your weapon in a safe direction, for unintentional discharge, for failure to properly maintain and use safety systems if only property damage is involved. Felony negligence if somebody is injured including yourself. Felony manslaughter if somebody dies.

3. Just like drinking and driving, you’re caught drinking with a gun, you take a breathalyzer or a blood test. We don’t need any new standards, the ones for DUI will work just fine. You’re intoxicated with a gun? You go to jail. And we impound your weapons. Somebody is injured? Aggravated assault. Somebody is killed? Negligent homicide. You’re operating a killing machine, I don’t think sobriety is too much to ask.

4. Conviction on misdemeanor gun safety charges? You lose the privilege for a specified period. You engage in remedial action? You prove you’ve learned your lesson? You prove you’ll be a responsible gun owner in the future? You get your guns back. Happens again, you lose the privilege forever. We don’t give drunk drivers more than two strikes either.

Conviction on felony gun handling charges? You lose the privilege. Period. Your name goes in the federal database and you never own or operate a gun again, this includes cops and military.

I admit. I didn't read that too deeply. I would agree to most of that.

I am pretty pro-accountability in these cases. Most of the time it is poor parenting which I believe should be punishable by law.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I classify that as international Terrorism, due to International forces being involved.

That one's root cause is poor National Security policy.

Not really, our national security can't take out everyone who doesn't like us and one was a citizen here.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I admit. I didn't read that too deeply. I would agree to most of that.

I am pretty pro-accountability in these cases. Most of the time it is poor parenting which I believe should be punishable by law.

You should read more of what this guy has to say. I admit some of it's liberal and he's pretty anti-NRA in terms of their politics, but at the same time he owns firearms and is a gun safety instructor at a gun range so he's not some guy who's had no experience with guns trying to dictate gun policy nor is he someone that wants to rid America completely of guns.

The weakness that I've noted is the only solid policy solutions he's put forward is those that I've listed.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I classify that as international Terrorism, due to International forces being involved.

That one's root cause is poor National Security policy.

What policy would have prevented an American from entering America?