My experiences with my kids have only deepened my belief in school choice

Hoosierhawkeye

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I have mentioned how my kids both are autistic. And in 2019 - 2020 school year before the pandemic my oldest son was in the kindergarten glass at a public school. In that time he learned pretty much nothing and was taught nothing.

Because of the pandemic they have been doing an online charter school that many people on here implied would not be good for them.
On the contrary it has been excellent for them. My oldest son got back on the diploma track after catching up basically learning 3 grade levels worth of information in 2 years. Well my youngest son has had a preliminary evaluation and he appears likely to be on his way back to the diploma track. He just finished up kindergarten online and he tested at a 2nd grade reading level. If he had gone to the public school he'd likely also be stuck in the autism class learning nothing and reading nothing.

Now I don't entirely blame the public school for this because they have autistic kids of various abilities and my kids might not have been behaviorally in a position to be in regular classes. Not because they can't handle the academics but because they simply have trouble sitting still and re-directing.

Our daughter who is not on the spectrum and doesn't have an IEP is certainly going back to regular school next year. We think that is the best thing for her. However we are on the fence about our sons who are on the spectrum as to if one more year online (and receiving accompanying therapies) or sending them back to public school next year is the right move. They are improving behaviorally although they are probably not to the level where they could spend most of their day in mainstream classes. Especially not the youngest, the older one maybe.

Lesson to is that public school is not the right choice for every student and parents should be given the ability no matter what their income to make the right choice for their children. Because sometimes a charter school is the better choice. Sometimes it might be a private school and these decisions are best left to the parents.

This situation has sort of made me glad the pandemic happened. Because I don't think we would have tried online school otherwise.
 

stout1

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Because of the pandemic they have been doing an online charter school

Lesson to is that public school is not the right choice for every student

You sent your kids to a public school,. It just happened to be online and run by a charter, but that is a public school by definition in Indiana. That school choice has been available to you for a decade as has the ability to enroll in any traditional public school in the State of Indiana.

A number of traditional public schools offer a fully online option as well. Union School Corporation offers the Indiana Digital Learning School. Greater Clark County Schools offers the Greater Clark Virtual Academy. Many of the public school corporations in the Indianapolis area offer the Indiana Online Academy.

If you want your kid to go to private school you may pay for it OR the private school should have to comply with all state regulations that govern public schools if they accept state tuition dollars. Pretty simple.

I am thrilled for you and your boys that they have had academic success. Ultimately, that is what people involved in education want for all kids.
 
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seminole97

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Jun 14, 2005
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Parents are allowed to choose whatever school they want for their children. They shouldn't be subsidized just because they are unable to afford the choice they make.
But they should be forced at the same time to subsidize someone else’s ‘choice’, reducing what they can afford to choose?
 

HawkCat

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May 29, 2001
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I have mentioned how my kids both are autistic. And in 2019 - 2020 school year before the pandemic my oldest son was in the kindergarten glass at a public school. In that time he learned pretty much nothing and was taught nothing.

Because of the pandemic they have been doing an online charter school that many people on here implied would not be good for them.
On the contrary it has been excellent for them. My oldest son got back on the diploma track after catching up basically learning 3 grade levels worth of information in 2 years. Well my youngest son has had a preliminary evaluation and he appears likely to be on his way back to the diploma track. He just finished up kindergarten online and he tested at a 2nd grade reading level. If he had gone to the public school he'd likely also be stuck in the autism class learning nothing and reading nothing.

Now I don't entirely blame the public school for this because they have autistic kids of various abilities and my kids might not have been behaviorally in a position to be in regular classes. Not because they can't handle the academics but because they simply have trouble sitting still and re-directing.

Our daughter who is not on the spectrum and doesn't have an IEP is certainly going back to regular school next year. We think that is the best thing for her. However we are on the fence about our sons who are on the spectrum as to if one more year online (and receiving accompanying therapies) or sending them back to public school next year is the right move. They are improving behaviorally although they are probably not to the level where they could spend most of their day in mainstream classes. Especially not the youngest, the older one maybe.

Lesson to is that public school is not the right choice for every student and parents should be given the ability no matter what their income to make the right choice for their children. Because sometimes a charter school is the better choice. Sometimes it might be a private school and these decisions are best left to the parents.

This situation has sort of made me glad the pandemic happened. Because I don't think we would have tried online school otherwise.
My family situation is similar to yours. We have two autistic sons were are part of a set of triplets along with a neurotypical daughter. We also have a fourth child, a younger neurotypical daughter. All of our kids attended public school through elementary school. We honestly did not have a terrible experience with our sons, but we worried about them in a public middle school setting. So we sent them through high school to a small private school that focuses on kids with learning differences. That specialized private school was certainly better for them academically, but we do think the small nature of the school might have hampered them socially. It is a trade-off. Our daughters attended public school all the way through and had a great experience.

Where I live, we have a charter school that is just another type of publicly funded school. Although the founders of the charter school would deny it, I believe it was established to allow for flight from our public schools that have become predominantly Hispanic. My wife and I did not consider the charter school for this reason. We liked the melting pot of the public school and believed it offered better extracurricular opportunities as well. Just my experience and two cents.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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You sent your kids to a public school,. It just happened to be online and run by a charter, but that is a public school by definition in Indiana. That school choice has been available to you for a decade as has the ability to enroll in any traditional public school in the State of Indiana.

A number of traditional public schools offer a fully online option as well. Union School Corporation offers the Indiana Digital Learning School. Greater Clark County Schools offers the Greater Clark Virtual Academy. Many if the public school corporations in the Indianapolis area offer the Indiana Online Academy.

If you want your kid to go to private school you may pay for it OR the private school should have to comply with all state regulations that govern public schools if they accept state tuition dollars. Pretty simple.

I am thrilled for you and your boys that they have had academic success. Ultimately, that is what people involved in education want for all kids.

Ahh but the left doesn't like public charter schools either. . . They tell us to go to public school if we can't afford anything else. If the left ran Indiana my boys would unlikely to read anything because I couldn't afford to send them to a private school.

Our school district nor any school districts near us offered an online option. We are a long way from Indianapolis.

In fact the public school that my kid did attend is actually outside of our district because the district we live in lacks the resources for him.

School's should be up to the parents and they should be able to send their children to whatever school they can adequately transport their child to. This shouldn't be dependent upon income. Otherwise the wealthy get the best schooling while even the smartest poor children are left behind.

My kids are living proof that the left wing one size fits all approach to schooling does not work. Now I will say that doesn't excuse the criminal under funding of public schools in poorer areas. But even if every school got the right funding, it still would not mean that one size fits all is the right way to go.

I mean even with our 3 kids there is a good chance that they will be going to different schools next year. Because what's right for my daughter isn't necessarily right for my sons.
 

WDSMHAWK

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But they should be forced at the same time to subsidize someone else’s ‘choice’, reducing what they can afford to choose?

Why stop at school choice? Can I get a voucher to hire my own private security detail? I mean me subsidizing the Des Moines police department, has reduced my ability to afford other choices for protection.
 

gohawks50

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Ahh but the left doesn't like public charter schools either. . . They tell us to go to public school if we can't afford anything else. If the left ran Indiana my boys would unlikely to read anything because I couldn't afford to send them to a private school.

Our school district nor any school districts near us offered an online option. We are a long way from Indianapolis.

In fact the public school that my kid did attend is actually outside of our district because the district we live in lacks the resources for him.

School's should be up to the parents and they should be able to send their children to whatever school they can adequately transport their child to. This shouldn't be dependent upon income. Otherwise the wealthy get the best schooling while even the smartest poor children are left behind.

My kids are living proof that the left wing one size fits all approach to schooling does not work. Now I will say that doesn't excuse the criminal under funding of public schools in poorer areas. But even if every school got the right funding, it still would not mean that one size fits all is the right way to go.

I mean even with our 3 kids there is a good chance that they will be going to different schools next year. Because what's right for my daughter isn't necessarily right for my sons.
The only problem with Charter schools is they are not required to follow the same rules or curriculum as normal public schools. Because of those differences you can not compare the results from a regular public school to charter public school.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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My family situation is similar to yours. We have two autistic sons were are part of a set of triplets along with a neurotypical daughter. We also have a fourth child, a younger neurotypical daughter. All of our kids attended public school through elementary school. We honestly did not have a terrible experience with our sons, but we worried about them in a public middle school setting. So we sent them through high school to a small private school that focuses on kids with learning differences. That specialized private school was certainly better for them academically, but we do think the small nature of the school might have hampered them socially. It is a trade-off. Our daughters attended public school all the way through and had a great experience.

Where I live, we have a charter school that is just another type of publicly funded school. Although the founders of the charter school would deny it, I believe it was established to allow for flight from our public schools that have become predominantly Hispanic. My wife and I did not consider the charter school for this reason. We liked the melting pot of the public school and believed it offered better extracurricular opportunities as well. Just my experience and two cents.

Honestly middle school is a worry we have. Both of us got bullied in Middle school and our social difficulties I don't think where as disabling as our son's are.

I don't know of any school in the area that specializes in kids with disabilities.

But our objective is to get them back into regular in person school hopefully when their behavior can allow for mainstream classroom education.
 

B1GDeal

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Ahh but the left doesn't like public charter schools either. . . They tell us to go to public school if we can't afford anything else. If the left ran Indiana my boys would unlikely to read anything because I couldn't afford to send them to a private school.

Our school district nor any school districts near us offered an online option. We are a long way from Indianapolis.

In fact the public school that my kid did attend is actually outside of our district because the district we live in lacks the resources for him.

School's should be up to the parents and they should be able to send their children to whatever school they can adequately transport their child to. This shouldn't be dependent upon income. Otherwise the wealthy get the best schooling while even the smartest poor children are left behind.

My kids are living proof that the left wing one size fits all approach to schooling does not work. Now I will say that doesn't excuse the criminal under funding of public schools in poorer areas. But even if every school got the right funding, it still would not mean that one size fits all is the right way to go.

I mean even with our 3 kids there is a good chance that they will be going to different schools next year. Because what's right for my daughter isn't necessarily right for my sons.
Would your school lack those resources if the state funded them properly?
 

B1GDeal

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Why stop at school choice? Can I get a voucher to hire my own private security detail? I mean me subsidizing the Des Moines police department, has reduced my ability to afford other choices for protection.
No shit... 911 is a joke (said in my Flava Flav voice). ;)
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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The only problem with Charter schools is they are not required to follow the same rules or curriculum as normal public schools. Because of those differences you can not compare the results from a regular public school to charter public school.

Yeah the charter school seems better. My eldest son after kindergarten in '19 to '20 read zero words.

He now reads just barely at grade level.

My youngest son after kindergarten online reads at the 2nd grade level.

I mean I don't have to know their curricula to know that one school taught my kids how to read while the other school did nothing.

Academically my youngest is way way ahead of where my oldest was 2 years ago.
 

HawkCat

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I don't know of any school in the area that specializes in kids with disabilities.
We had to look around to find the small private school that we used. And it was a very small school. Four kids were in my sons' class at graduation. We were able to apply for and enjoy the benefits of a state program that partially funded the cost. We still had to pay a bunch out of pocket, though. In the public setting, we had some good teachers and fair resources, but it is inherently harder for a "full-service" institution to do a good job with special needs kids IMHO.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Would your school lack those resources if the state funded them properly?

It isn't really an issue of funding it's an issue of numbers. The district we live in is small covering mostly rural area and small town of less than 2000 total people and a community of about 600 people.

There simply isn't enough kids to justify it.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Should everyone also get vouchers to pick the police force or fire department of their choice?

I don't think you can compare police and fire which do not need individual tailoring to education which often does.

All I'm saying is that I went through it and I am no lover of the Republican party and based on my experiences the Republicans got this one right.

Now maybe they are just doing some of it to play to their base and send more kids to private religious schools. Or maybe they are doing it because they think that competition is what makes schools better. I don't really care about the first because I feel like church or home can fulfill any religious educational needs the parents want. (And that is free). The second I think is more or less poppycock.

But what is correct is that one size fits all schools are simply not the best choice for every child. The one size fits all school was nothing but highly paid babysitters for my oldest son. Online charter school taught him basic math, how to read, got him back on the diploma track. Without it he would have gotten some stupid certificate that would have screwed him in the future no matter how smart he was.

And again I'm not trying to blame them because they are trying to work with a lot of of different kids with a lot of different needs and my eldest in kindergarten would have likely been a behavioral problem in mainstream classes. But just because he behaviorally couldn't handle it doesn't mean he wasn't smart enough to learn the material. He was smart enough to catch up from being an entire school year behind. His brother outreads most of his peers as does his sister.
 
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gohawks50

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Yeah the charter school seems better. My eldest son after kindergarten in '19 to '20 read zero words.

He now reads just barely at grade level.

My youngest son after kindergarten online reads at the 2nd grade level.

I mean I don't have to know their curricula to know that one school taught my kids how to read while the other school did nothing.

Academically my youngest is way way ahead of where my oldest was 2 years ago.
I taught kindergarten and the students were expected to know 120 sight words before 1st grade. Many of them learned the first grade sight words as well before the end of kindergarten. Since your sons are on the spectrum I imagine the one on one online experience made it easier for them to focus and retain information than the traditional classroom setting.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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I taught kindergarten and the students were expected to know 120 sight words before 1st grade. Many of them learned the first grade sight words as well before the end of kindergarten. Since your sons are on the spectrum I imagine the one on one online experience made it easier for them to focus and retain information than the traditional classroom setting.

That's true! And my eldest son learned ZERO sight words from August of '19 to March '20. And it wasn't like the school was telling us he was behind academically either.

But it also shows why the Republicans have gotten this right. The Dems baulk at public funds going to private schools and the baulk at charter schools. They tell you either accept the school district you are placed in or pay for private school.

Well I can't afford private school. Online school likely saved both of my son's shots at living independently in the future. Because I can't imagine there is much you can qualify for without a high school diploma other than fast food. And my kids where not going to end up on the diploma track in public school. Even if we had gotten them to where they could have gone into mainstream classes by that point they would have been 3 or 4 years behind their grade level and would have been screwed.
 

gohawks50

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Now maybe they are just doing some of it to play to their base and send more kids to private religious schools. Or maybe they are doing it because they think that competition is what makes schools better.
How can it be a fair competition when the schools aren't required to play by the same rules? A private school could refuse to educate you autistic sons, the public school can not. If everyone uses their voucher to choose a private school who do you think will remain in the public schools? The kids the private schools refuse to educate.

Also choice is only an illusion if you live in a rural area and the closest private school is 30+ miles away and you don't have the means to transport your child. Meanwhile, the local public school is operating with less funds because of vouchers so there are fewer teachers and programs available to educate your child.
 

HawkCat

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That's true!

But it also shows why the Republicans have gotten this right. The Dems baulk at public funds going to private schools and the baulk at charter schools. They tell you either accept the school district you are placed in or pay for private school.

Well I can't afford private school. Online school likely saved both of my son's shots at living independently in the future. Because I can't imagine there is much you can qualify for without a high school diploma other than fast food.
I agree with you to the extent of providing public funding for specialized schools designed to address particular needs. In my area, folks created a charter school to "compete" with the existing public schools. I think it also was to provide a "white flight" option, although some would disagree with me on that (at least publicly).
 

tarheelbybirth

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Apr 17, 2003
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The only problem with Charter schools is they are not required to follow the same rules or curriculum as normal public schools. Because of those differences you can not compare the results from a regular public school to charter public school.
The bigger problem with charters.

Broken Promises: An Analysis of Charter School Closures From 1999-2017” is a deep dive into the data surrounding patterns of charter closure and the number of students affected by those closures, especially those in high poverty areas. NPE is a advocacy group co-founded by Diane Ravitch, the Bush-era Assistant Secretary of Education who has since become an outspoken critic of education reform. The organization's executive director is Carol Burris, a former award-winning New York principal; Burris co-wrote the report with Ryan Pfleger, an education policy researcher.

From the Exectuive Summary:

We found charter closure rates to be alarmingly high, rising to 50 percent by the 15-year
mark.

Closures during the first three years: Our examination of 17 cohorts from 1998 to 2014 found that 18 percent (1,667 of 9,413) of charters closed by the three-year mark. A large proportion of failures occurred by the completion of the first year.

Closures in subsequent years: By the five-year mark, the closure rate increased to more than one in four charter schools. By year ten, 40 percent of charter schools had closed. In the available data, five cohorts of charter schools reached the fifteen-year mark. At year 15, one in two of those schools were gone. Failure rates ranged from 47 percent to 54 percent.

Students displaced by charter closures: Between 1999 and 2017, over 867,000 students were displaced when their charter school closed. It is reasonable to assume that if more current data were available, as well as data from 1995–1998, we would find more than one million students have found themselves emptying their lockers for the last time—sometimes in the middle of a school year—as their school shutters its door for good.

Closures in high-poverty areas: In three of the poorest cities in America—Detroit, Tucson, and Milwaukee—the rate of charter closures was higher in areas with greater than 30 percent of households in poverty than in areas with less than 20 percent. The gap was largest in Milwaukee—68 percent vs. 54 percent. • States with a large charter sector and large failure rate: Wisconsin, Arizona and Florida had the top failure rates at both the five-year and ten-year mark. Ohio was in the top five at both benchmark years. Our animated map shows the rapid growth and geographic dispersion of charter closures from 1999–2017.




They close and they take all that education money with them. Most egregiously, they will close early in the year, dump their students into an unprepared public system, and keep the $$$ they were given for those students. Some charters have closed before they ever opened...but they keep the money for the students who had signed up to go to them.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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How can it be a fair competition when the schools aren't required to play by the same rules? A private school could refuse to educate you autistic sons, the public school can not. If everyone uses their voucher to choose a private school who do you think will remain in the public schools? The kids the private schools refuse to educate.

Also choice is only an illusion if you live in a rural area and the closest private school is 30+ miles away and you don't have the means to transport your child. Meanwhile, the local public school is operating with less funds because of vouchers so there are fewer teachers and programs available to educate your child.

I do think they should be required to teach the same curricula. And I think that a school accepting public money should accept any student that academically fits.

And I think public schools that are hurting financially should get money to boost them up from the state.

Don't get me wrong I don't think everything the Republicans do is genius here. And I think the whole competition argument is poppycock.

But forcing everyone who can't afford a private school into a one size fits all public school isn't a good solution either.

And I get the challenges of living in a rural area, I am in one. The in district elementary school is like 5 min away, but they lack the resources for special needs kids. The school my kids will be attending when they are back to in person schools is 25 minutes away. Trust me I wish it wasn't that way. I still have days where I sit and wish that my kids didn't have special needs and could go to normal school and play sports like normal kids and eat a variety of different foods like normal kids (I make different meals for each child because they only like specific foods and getting them to even try a different food is a battle much less getting them to incorporate it into their regular diet is near impossible.)
 

stout1

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Ahh but the left doesn't like public charter schools either
The left doesn’t like the unregulated, poorly run charter system we have today.
If the left ran Indiana my boys would unlikely to read anything because I couldn't afford to send them to a private school.
You don’t know that because if the left ran Indiana schools wouldn’t be funded at a rate that is $1B less than it was a decade ago.
Our school district nor any school districts near us offered an online option. We are a long way from Indianapolis.
It is online school, proximity shouldn’t matter.
School's should be up to the parents and they should be able to send their children to whatever school they can adequately transport their child to. This shouldn't be dependent upon income. Otherwise the wealthy get the best schooling while even the smartest poor children are left behind.
If school choice was truly about this, Republicans wouldn’t have decreased targeted funding to poor schools and wouldn’t allow a family of 4 with an income of $160k to receive vouchers in Indiana.

My kids are living proof that the left wing one size fits all approach to schooling does not work. Now I will say that doesn't excuse the criminal under funding of public schools in poorer areas. But even if every school got the right funding, it still would not mean that one size fits all is the right way to go.

One size fits all schooling is a real stretch. Or my wife has been lying to me about the multiple levels of differentiation they provide to special education kids in her classroom, school and corporation.

And on many levels, your kids are living proof of what engaged and encouraging parents can do. That still happenes every day in traditional public schools AND I know a number of kids just like your boys who are screwed because their parents don’t care and let them flounder in online school.
 

gohawks50

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And I get the challenges of living in a rural area, I am in one. The in district elementary school is like 5 min away, but they lack the resources for special needs kids. The school my kids will be attending when they are back to in person schools is 25 minutes away. Trust me I wish it wasn't that way. I still have days where I sit and wish that my kids didn't have special needs and could go to normal school and play sports like normal kids and eat a variety of different foods like normal kids (I make different meals for each child because they only like specific foods and getting them to even try a different food is a battle much less getting them to incorporate it into their regular diet is near impossible.)
Doesn't your public school transport your children since they don't offer the services your children need? Public schools in Iowa are required to educate every child even if they have to provide transportation to a different district to provide the services needed for your child. There would be no transportation provided for a student attending a private school.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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The bigger problem with charters.

Broken Promises: An Analysis of Charter School Closures From 1999-2017” is a deep dive into the data surrounding patterns of charter closure and the number of students affected by those closures, especially those in high poverty areas. NPE is a advocacy group co-founded by Diane Ravitch, the Bush-era Assistant Secretary of Education who has since become an outspoken critic of education reform. The organization's executive director is Carol Burris, a former award-winning New York principal; Burris co-wrote the report with Ryan Pfleger, an education policy researcher.

From the Exectuive Summary:

We found charter closure rates to be alarmingly high, rising to 50 percent by the 15-year
mark.

Closures during the first three years: Our examination of 17 cohorts from 1998 to 2014 found that 18 percent (1,667 of 9,413) of charters closed by the three-year mark. A large proportion of failures occurred by the completion of the first year.

Closures in subsequent years: By the five-year mark, the closure rate increased to more than one in four charter schools. By year ten, 40 percent of charter schools had closed. In the available data, five cohorts of charter schools reached the fifteen-year mark. At year 15, one in two of those schools were gone. Failure rates ranged from 47 percent to 54 percent.

Students displaced by charter closures: Between 1999 and 2017, over 867,000 students were displaced when their charter school closed. It is reasonable to assume that if more current data were available, as well as data from 1995–1998, we would find more than one million students have found themselves emptying their lockers for the last time—sometimes in the middle of a school year—as their school shutters its door for good.

Closures in high-poverty areas: In three of the poorest cities in America—Detroit, Tucson, and Milwaukee—the rate of charter closures was higher in areas with greater than 30 percent of households in poverty than in areas with less than 20 percent. The gap was largest in Milwaukee—68 percent vs. 54 percent. • States with a large charter sector and large failure rate: Wisconsin, Arizona and Florida had the top failure rates at both the five-year and ten-year mark. Ohio was in the top five at both benchmark years. Our animated map shows the rapid growth and geographic dispersion of charter closures from 1999–2017.




They close and they take all that education money with them. Most egregiously, they will close early in the year, dump their students into an unprepared public system, and keep the $$$ they were given for those students. Some charters have closed before they ever opened...but they keep the money for the students who had signed up to go to them.

Then the government should chase these schools down for fraud.

I'm not arguing that sometimes the oversight isn't lax. I'm pointing out that the fundamental truth that one size fits all isn't necessarily the best for every student.

Now if we could combine that with a uniform curricula and strong oversight to make sure schools are educating the students for the money they are getting. Adding also that under-funded schools should get extra money to make sure they can keep up good standards for the kids that do fit in there. That's the way to go.

But the leftist mantra of "public schools or pay for private education yourself" would have guaranteed both of my son's would be in assisted living when we pass.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Doesn't your public school transport your children since they don't offer the services your children need? Public schools in Iowa are required to educate every child even if they have to provide transportation to a different district to provide the services needed for your child. There would be no transportation provided for a student attending a private school.

Theoretically we could put them on the bus.

We also know a lot of bullying happens on those buses, so we prefer to drive them ourselves.
 

noStemsnoSTICKS

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Ahh but the left doesn't like public charter schools either. . . They tell us to go to public school if we can't afford anything else. If the left ran Indiana my boys would unlikely to read anything because I couldn't afford to send them to a private school.

Our school district nor any school districts near us offered an online option. We are a long way from Indianapolis.

In fact the public school that my kid did attend is actually outside of our district because the district we live in lacks the resources for him.

School's should be up to the parents and they should be able to send their children to whatever school they can adequately transport their child to. This shouldn't be dependent upon income. Otherwise the wealthy get the best schooling while even the smartest poor children are left behind.

My kids are living proof that the left wing one size fits all approach to schooling does not work. Now I will say that doesn't excuse the criminal under funding of public schools in poorer areas. But even if every school got the right funding, it still would not mean that one size fits all is the right way to go.

I mean even with our 3 kids there is a good chance that they will be going to different schools next year. Because what's right for my daughter isn't necessarily right for my sons.
When has the left been against charter schools? We have them all over California. It's been that way for the last 15-20 years. Charter schools are essentially public schools.

It's different than school choice, where one gets a voucher to spend public school money on a private school. That's what I'm against.
 

stout1

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Jan 21, 2004
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When has the left been against charter schools? We have them all over California. It's been that way for the last 15-20 years. Charter schools are essentially public schools.

It's different than school choice, where one gets a voucher to spend public school money on a private school. That's what I'm against.

Please remember the OP isn’t very bright.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Sep 16, 2008
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When has the left been against charter schools? We have them all over California. It's been that way for the last 15-20 years. Charter schools are essentially public schools.

It's different than school choice, where one gets a voucher to spend public school money on a private school. That's what I'm against.

Maybe I'm wrong but everything I've heard from the left about Charter schools has been overwhelmingly negative.

If that's wrong and their concern is more about oversight then I am wrong on that.
 

gohawks50

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Theoretically we could put them on the bus.

We also know a lot of bullying happens on those buses, so we prefer to drive them ourselves.
You are fortunate you have the time and the means to transport your children, that is not the case for many parents. That's why the idea of choice is an illusion for most poor rural families.
 

HawkRCID

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Why stop at school choice? Can I get a voucher to hire my own private security detail? I mean me subsidizing the Des Moines police department, has reduced my ability to afford other choices for protection.
Bingo, this is where that argument falls apart. I don’t want my tax dollars to go to the local fire department….they’re slow anyways….I’d prefer to hire my own fire service….
 
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Hoosierhawkeye

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Bingo, this is where that argument falls apart. I don’t want my tax dollars to go to the local fire department….they’re slow anyways….I’d prefer to hire my own fire service….

Again it's comparable. Every house doesn't need a different type of fire service. They all basically need some men with a big hose to show up and put the fire out.

A lot of kids need different types of schools.
 

JMNSHO

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The whole “school choice” issue is clouded by the popular misunderstanding that your property tax dollars are meant to fund your own children’s education. They are meant to fund public education for anyone who chooses it. The idea of earmarking your own tax dollars for your own use is naive and ridiculous.
 

HawkRCID

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The whole “school choice” issue is clouded by the popular misunderstanding that your property tax dollars are meant to fund your own children’s education. They are meant to fund public education for anyone who chooses it. The idea of earmarking your own tax dollars for your own use is naive and ridiculous.
exactly. Where does it end? I don’t agree with farm welfare, can I get those tax dollars back?
 

stout1

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You are fortunate you have the time and the means to transport your children, that is not the case for many parents. That's why the idea of choice is an illusion for most poor rural families.

But he is poor, just ask him. So poor his wife doesn't work, and he buys lots of different food to cater to his kids' needs, and he drives his kids 25 minutes one way to school.
 
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stout1

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Again it's comparable. Every house doesn't need a different type of fire service. They all basically need some men with a big hose to show up and put the fire out.

A lot of kids need different types of schools.

There are a number of different types of fire protection needed. You don't use the same methods at factories as you do homes, or schools, or big box stores, or gas stations.

And "a lot" is such a nebulous term. Define it.
 

Rudolph

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Ahh but the left doesn't like public charter schools either. . . They tell us to go to public school if we can't afford anything else. If the left ran Indiana my boys would unlikely to read anything because I couldn't afford to send them to a private school.

Our school district nor any school districts near us offered an online option. We are a long way from Indianapolis.

In fact the public school that my kid did attend is actually outside of our district because the district we live in lacks the resources for him.

School's should be up to the parents and they should be able to send their children to whatever school they can adequately transport their child to. This shouldn't be dependent upon income. Otherwise the wealthy get the best schooling while even the smartest poor children are left behind.

My kids are living proof that the left wing one size fits all approach to schooling does not work. Now I will say that doesn't excuse the criminal under funding of public schools in poorer areas. But even if every school got the right funding, it still would not mean that one size fits all is the right way to go.

I mean even with our 3 kids there is a good chance that they will be going to different schools next year. Because what's right for my daughter isn't necessarily right for my sons.
The left doesn’t like the corruption involved in steering public funds into private hands whose private entities are pretty well shielded. Whether it’s schools or energy corps, same deal. Weird how that’s now a left thing, when that’s a pretty fundamental pillar of (now seemingly dead) classic conservatism.

The charter stuff is a mess. Not all shadiness everywhere, and certainly public Ed isn’t squeaky clean, but it’s a mess.
 

RileyHawk

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This is about providing basic education to all children, regardless of means or status. The right wants there to be "choice" - as long as that choice means their kid gets to go to a superior school. They have no answer for the situations whee every parent wants to enroll their kid in the "best" school. Who chooses then?

If it's a true lottery I could get on board but that's never going to happen. When Karen's kid is assigned to the "bad" school all hell will break out. This the right will try to make sure their constituents are the chosen ones.

It's a terrible idea. One that will further divide our country rather than improve education for ALL children.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Sep 16, 2008
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This is about providing basic education to all children, regardless of means or status. The right wants there to be "choice" - as long as that choice means their kid gets to go to a superior school. They have no answer for the situations whee every parent wants to enroll their kid in the "best" school. Who chooses then?

If it's a true lottery I could get on board but that's never going to happen. When Karen's kid is assigned to the "bad" school all hell will break out. This the right will try to make sure their constituents are the chosen ones.

It's a terrible idea. One that will further divide our country rather than improve education for ALL children.

I don't think different schools can necessarily be compared as to which one is better than the other. While some are like that. Many are just different means to the end of educating children based on the different needs of the child.

I mean there is a good chance that we are sending 1 or 2 kids to public next year and one to online charter school. It's not because one is better than the other. It's just different needs.