My experiences with my kids have only deepened my belief in school choice

tarheelbybirth

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The teacher should take some sort of lead on this should they not?

We had no idea he was even behind til we started online school.
I have no idea what the reality here is. I can't imagine you didn't get progress reports and if they're anything like the ones we give out here, they clearly indicate a K-2 student's level of mastery on multiple reading objectives. I also can't imagine ANY teacher being asked, "So how is little Johnny doing?" and not telling a parent the truth. Knowing what I know...the claim that you had no idea he was struggling doesn't track but maybe you didn't get accurate progress reports and maybe the teacher lied to you when you asked.
 

joelbc1

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you can’t always get what you want!
I have mentioned how my kids both are autistic. And in 2019 - 2020 school year before the pandemic my oldest son was in the kindergarten glass at a public school. In that time he learned pretty much nothing and was taught nothing.

Because of the pandemic they have been doing an online charter school that many people on here implied would not be good for them.
On the contrary it has been excellent for them. My oldest son got back on the diploma track after catching up basically learning 3 grade levels worth of information in 2 years. Well my youngest son has had a preliminary evaluation and he appears likely to be on his way back to the diploma track. He just finished up kindergarten online and he tested at a 2nd grade reading level. If he had gone to the public school he'd likely also be stuck in the autism class learning nothing and reading nothing.

Now I don't entirely blame the public school for this because they have autistic kids of various abilities and my kids might not have been behaviorally in a position to be in regular classes. Not because they can't handle the academics but because they simply have trouble sitting still and re-directing.

Our daughter who is not on the spectrum and doesn't have an IEP is certainly going back to regular school next year. We think that is the best thing for her. However we are on the fence about our sons who are on the spectrum as to if one more year online (and receiving accompanying therapies) or sending them back to public school next year is the right move. They are improving behaviorally although they are probably not to the level where they could spend most of their day in mainstream classes. Especially not the youngest, the older one maybe.

Lesson to is that public school is not the right choice for every student and parents should be given the ability no matter what their income to make the right choice for their children. Because sometimes a charter school is the better choice. Sometimes it might be a private school and these decisions are best left to the parents.

This situation has sort of made me glad the pandemic happened. Because I don't think we would have tried online school otherwise.
Is “religion” considered a form of autism? I feel compassion for your situation. DemNd more from your local school district! However, I am not in favor of making exceptions to public tax monies going to private schools. It is just another “ slippery slope”...Best of luck.
 

joelbc1

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Everyone has a school choice. The first choice is whether or not to have a child, and understanding what you can afford. I paid for Catholic school for my son for 13 years, while paying school taxes at the same time.

I do know the Catholic school my son attended in Florida had voucher kids. The school in NC didn't have a voucher option, but they gave reduced, and sometimes free tuition based on need. Nuns ran both schools, and they were passionate about not turning away kids because of economic need.

The parents of the voucher kids in Florida were very open about how grateful they were for that option. Nobody had to start a conversation on that topic. Those parents cared about their children.
With all due respect Finance, most folks are appreciTive of “free money” tossed at them. The idea of public tax money being given to private entities is repulsive enough but when it is a religious institution, that smells of “state religion” and defies the doctrine of sepRTion of church and state. Plus...as a tax payer and investor...what say do I have into oversight of the school’s oprtation. After all Finance, it is MY money.
 

abby97

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Parents are allowed to choose whatever school they want for their children. They shouldn't be subsidized just because they are unable to afford the choice they make.
Why do you believe this? Our goal should be to educate every child in this country and we should do this in anyway possible. If the public schools are not doing their job, then why should we continue to subsidize an inferior product? I believe every parent should be given whatever dollar amount is paid to the public school to send their child to whatever school they choose whether that be private or charter.
 
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abby97

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With all due respect Finance, most folks are appreciTive of “free money” tossed at them. The idea of public tax money being given to private entities is repulsive enough but when it is a religious institution, that smells of “state religion” and defies the doctrine of sepRTion of church and state. Plus...as a tax payer and investor...what say do I have into oversight of the school’s oprtation. After all Finance, it is MY money.
joelbc1 is wrong again. The government is not choosing any religion the parent is. The government is not subsidizing any religion it is simply using the tax money the parents, and their grandparents pay to the government to educate their children.
 

Tom Paris

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Why do you believe this? Our goal should be to educate every child in this country and we should do this in anyway possible. If the public schools are not doing their job, then why should we continue to subsidize an inferior product? I believe every parent should be given whatever dollar amount is paid to the public school to send their child to whatever school they choose whether that be private or charter.
So the well to do white kids then? Because giving that dollar amount to people in poverty to send their kids to a private school STILL won't cover the costs to attend. That means the poor families, many many PoC won't be able to utilize it. Your money will be going to upper middle class white people who don't need your money.
 

Tom Paris

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joelbc1 is wrong again. The government is not choosing any religion the parent is. The government is not subsidizing any religion it is simply using the tax money the parents, and their grandparents pay to the government to educate their children.
No...he's right.
 

abby97

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And - once again - charter schools operate with public funds. They ARE public schools in that regard. They can not charge tuition to attend. If you want a private education, you should pay for that yourself just like parents who want their kids on traveling teams for sports. The public school shouldn't pay for that just because they offer public school sports teams that don't meet a parent's expectations.
If you don't see a difference between educating children and paying for traveling sports teams, than you are way over your head in this conversation.
 
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abby97

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So the well to do white kids then? Because giving that dollar amount to people in poverty to send their kids to a private school STILL won't cover the costs to attend. That means the poor families, many many PoC won't be able to utilize it. Your money will be going to upper middle class white people who don't need your money.
I disagree. Maybe the dollar amount today won't pay for certain private schools but I guarantee if children were given X amount for tuition for a private education, schools were adjust their tuition costs to take advantage of this new market. And the good thing about a private market is if the school the parents chose still wasn't doing it's job, they could try another. An option not available now.

I also believe this would also force the public schools to be more responsive to the parents needs so they could compete. We've recently seen parents bringing up issues at school board meetings and they were either told to go away or they were simply disregarded. We already have religious schools but the religion is woke/leftism and we are all paying for it.
 

Tom Paris

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I disagree. Maybe the dollar amount today won't pay for certain private schools but I guarantee if children were given X amount for tuition for a private education, schools were adjust their tuition costs to take advantage of this new market. And the good thing about a private market is if the school the parents chose still wasn't doing it's job, they could try another. An option not available now.

I also believe this would also force the public schools to be more responsive to the parents needs so they could compete. We've recently seen parents bringing up issues at school board meetings and they were either told to go away or they were simply disregarded. We already have religious schools but the religion is woke/leftism and we are all paying for it.
You can disagree but you'd be wrong. Private schools do NOT want undesirables in their buildings. Your last paragraph has to do with made up CRT nonsense that MAGA parents believe. Well played by the Republicans.

I'm telling you, poor kids, especially of color, aren't going to be attending private schools in any sort of numbers with some voucher program. It's not going to happen. In Iowa, our governor is actually getting pushback - though she is being vindictive and going after them - from Republican legislators in rural areas who are hearing from their constituents. There are many, many districts in small towns that don't have a private school anywhere near them for parents to send their kids to. So she's trying to tell farming communities that they need to send their tax dollars to private schools a couple hundred miles away and not to their local schools that are already underfunded.

Rural living Iowans aren't going to go for that because there is still pride in many of those communities.
 
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Hoosierhawkeye

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With all due respect Finance, most folks are appreciTive of “free money” tossed at them. The idea of public tax money being given to private entities is repulsive enough but when it is a religious institution, that smells of “state religion” and defies the doctrine of sepRTion of church and state. Plus...as a tax payer and investor...what say do I have into oversight of the school’s oprtation. After all Finance, it is MY money.

Problem with that argument is that the parents can use the money to send their children to any religious school they want. If there was an Islamic private school the money could and should be available for that.
 
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Rifler

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Problem with that argument is that the parents can use the money to send their children to any religious school they want. If there was an Islamic private school the money could and should be available for that.

Reality is that the voucher won't cover the cost of many private schools and most parents can't or won't come up with the additional dollars to make up the difference...
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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I have no idea what the reality here is. I can't imagine you didn't get progress reports and if they're anything like the ones we give out here, they clearly indicate a K-2 student's level of mastery on multiple reading objectives. I also can't imagine ANY teacher being asked, "So how is little Johnny doing?" and not telling a parent the truth. Knowing what I know...the claim that you had no idea he was struggling doesn't track but maybe you didn't get accurate progress reports and maybe the teacher lied to you when you asked.

Any progress reports indicated that he was doing fine.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Charter schools are public schools.
The change was delivery method (online vs in person) not type of school (traditional public, charter public, or private)
You are skipping the part where the OP did a terrible job with his own kids.

I think we did just fine. School never gave us any indication that he was behind. Most likely I think because he was not on the diploma track and they just wrote him off.

We where the ones, that caught him up to where he learned 3 years of information in 2. Your precious public school screwed us over and gave us no information. Lesson learned when he goes back to the schools we will be all over the teacher about every detail of his education. Because apparently they can not be relied upon to educate their students or inform us themselves of any deficiencies.

And for the record this is a well funded school district too.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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So you only worked with your struggling child when the school sent you something?? Dude, this is somewhat on your wife and you. Parents need to spend time working with their kids without prompts from the school.

My parents didn't work with me on anything without the school sending it home. For the most part my parents didn't even work with me on that.

By the time I was in 7th grade my homework was too difficult for my parents to understand.

Now I'm willing to help but someone has to tell me what to help him with. Because I had no idea at the time what the kindergarten curricula is.
 

gohawks50

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I think we did just fine. School never gave us any indication that he was behind. Most likely I think because he was not on the diploma track and they just wrote him off.

We where the ones, that caught him up to where he learned 3 years of information in 2. Your precious public school screwed us over and gave us no information. Lesson learned when he goes back to the schools we will be all over the teacher about every detail of his education. Because apparently they can not be relied upon to educate their students or inform us themselves of any deficiencies.

And for the record this is a well funded school district too.
He wasn't on the diploma track in kindergarten?
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Sure the teacher should but so should you as his parent. Again, that's a terrible thing to admit that you didn't know your child was falling behind until online school? Did you not think to ask for progress reports on how things were going? I couldn't imagine not having some type of interaction with my child's teacher especially if I'm not hearing anything from them proactively. No PTCs in Kindergarten?

There were no PTC's. Progress reports indicated that he was doing fine and were mostly concerned with his behavioral issues which could be off and on.

We saw the teacher every day because we hand delivered him to class. If we asked how he was doing she would indicate that he was doing well.
 
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Hoosierhawkeye

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He wasn't on the diploma track in kindergarten?

NO they immediately put him into special education classes, wrote him off and I guess after he finished school he was going to get a certificate that he finished school. I honestly think they pegged him as destined to assisted living or a group home.


Did you ever read with your kids? Have them read to you?

Yes and they read to us now. They didn't read to us at the time because again he didn't know how to read. School never sent home any sight words saying he should learn these. The online school did, the public school didn't.

This is not on us. In fact we went above and beyond to catch him up because the school failed him. We're still living in a 900 sq ft house because my wife can't work because she's busy giving our children the education that a well funded public school wouldn't give him.
 

gohawks50

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NO they immediately put him into special education classes, wrote him off and I guess after he finished school he was going to get a certificate that he finished school. I honestly think they pegged him as destined to assisted living or a group home.
Special education students are not "written off". If he was in Special Education you or/and your wife would have been invited to IEP meetings where his goals were laid out. Each professional involved in your child's education would have given a report on his progress toward those goals. Did he only have behavior goals or were there academic goals as well? You also would have been asked to sign the IEP agreeing that you understood his education plan and approved of their plan of action for your child. If these meetings happened you should have been well informed on how your child was progressing in relationship to his peers.
 
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tumorboy

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No shots,.. just a statement of fact.
I've seen children with the exact same parents. Raise a really great kid and also raise a complete POS. Sometimes it feels as if there are only varying degrees of wrong.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Special education students are not "written off". If he was in Special Education you or/and your wife would have been invited to IEP meetings where his goals were laid out. Each professional involved in your child's education would have given a report on his progress toward those goals. Did he only have behavior goals or were there academic goals as well? You also would have been asked to sign the IEP agreeing that you understood his education plan and approved of their plan of action for your child. If these meetings happened you should have been well inform on how your child was progressing in relationship to his peers.

Most of those IEP meetings again were focused on behavioral goals. There was not much discussion about how he was going to keep up academically.

And the first time we didn't understand that he was not on the diploma track.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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You're the parents, everything is on you,.. Don't expect society to raise your children properly.

We never asked society to raise our children. . . but educating our children. That's been on society for about a hundred years now.

If I would have relied upon my parents to educate me my education wouldn't have progressed beyond what is now considered 6th grade level material.
 
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gohawks50

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Most of those IEP meetings again were focused on behavioral goals. There was not much discussion about how he was going to keep up academically.

And the first time we didn't understand that he was not on the diploma track.
I've never heard of a kindergartner ever being put on a non diploma track. Do you have a link for this being an option for kindergartners in Indiana?
 

Titanhawk2

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With all due respect Finance, most folks are appreciTive of “free money” tossed at them. The idea of public tax money being given to private entities is repulsive enough but when it is a religious institution, that smells of “state religion” and defies the doctrine of sepRTion of church and state. Plus...as a tax payer and investor...what say do I have into oversight of the school’s oprtation. After all Finance, it is MY money.
Are you for funding the education of children or funding the existence of an institution?
 
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Hoosierhawkeye

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Special education students are not "written off". If he was in Special Education you or/and your wife would have been invited to IEP meetings where his goals were laid out. Each professional involved in your child's education would have given a report on his progress toward those goals. Did he only have behavior goals or were there academic goals as well? You also would have been asked to sign the IEP agreeing that you understood his education plan and approved of their plan of action for your child. If these meetings happened you should have been well informed on how your child was progressing in relationship to his peers.

Not sure I can give you a specific link but keep in mind the school district also worked with him for 3 straight years in a pre-school for students with disabilities.

They even kept him an extra year in pre-school and he didn't start kindergarten until he was 6.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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Are you for funding the education of children or funding the existence of an institution?

My view is that you have to fund both. The public school institution needs to exist in good shape for parents who's students who don't fit in or for some reason are not able to attend charter schools or private schools. The public school needs to be kept to a certain standard regardless of how many kids actually attend.

But I do think we should recognize that the education of children is the goal and give parents flexibility on that.
 

gohawks50

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Not sure I can give you a specific link but keep in mind the school district also worked with him for 3 straight years in a pre-school for students with disabilities.

They even kept him an extra year in pre-school and he didn't start kindergarten until he was 6.
I found this from the South Bend Community School Corporation.

WHEN SHOULD THE DECISION BE MADE?

The assumption is that all SBCSC students will work toward mastery of state standards and receive a high school diploma. However, some students require extensive, repeated, individualized instruction and substantial support that is not of a temporary or transient nature to achieve measurable gains in grade and age-appropriate curriculum. These students may require substantially adapted materials and individualized methods of accessing information in alternative ways to acquire, maintain, generalize and demonstrate and transfer skills across multiple settings.

If curriculum modifications are needed over an extensive period of time and become a necessary support for the student's success, it may be appropriate for the case conference to consider placing the student on a certificate track.

The recommendation of the school as to whether the student will be working towards a diploma or a certificate must be well documented. This is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and will have life long effects. It can be a very emotional discussion with parents, and should be handled with tact and compassion.

At age 14 (typically eighth grade), or earlier if determined by the case conference committee, a decision shall be made at the annual case conference as to whether the student will earn credits toward a high school diploma or work toward a Certificate of Completion.


  • Use the Course of Study Worksheet to gather data in making this decision
    • Gather data over at least 3 years, preferable more
  • Parents must consistently be fully informed where student achievement is falling below grade level
  • Conduct a staffing with a support team member, guidance counselor, general ed teachers, building administrator, related services to discuss accommodations, strategies
  • A high school senior who has been working towards a diploma for four years cannot be changed to certificate at the end of the school year to allow the student to participate in graduation ceremonies.

The way I read it you should have been well informed before he could have been placed on the non diploma track and doing it at the kindergarten level would be extremely rare.
 

Hoosierhawkeye

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I found this from the South Bend Community School Corporation.

WHEN SHOULD THE DECISION BE MADE?

The assumption is that all SBCSC students will work toward mastery of state standards and receive a high school diploma. However, some students require extensive, repeated, individualized instruction and substantial support that is not of a temporary or transient nature to achieve measurable gains in grade and age-appropriate curriculum. These students may require substantially adapted materials and individualized methods of accessing information in alternative ways to acquire, maintain, generalize and demonstrate and transfer skills across multiple settings.

If curriculum modifications are needed over an extensive period of time and become a necessary support for the student's success, it may be appropriate for the case conference to consider placing the student on a certificate track.

The recommendation of the school as to whether the student will be working towards a diploma or a certificate must be well documented. This is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and will have life long effects. It can be a very emotional discussion with parents, and should be handled with tact and compassion.

At age 14 (typically eighth grade), or earlier if determined by the case conference committee, a decision shall be made at the annual case conference as to whether the student will earn credits toward a high school diploma or work toward a Certificate of Completion.


  • Use the Course of Study Worksheet to gather data in making this decision
    • Gather data over at least 3 years, preferable more
  • Parents must consistently be fully informed where student achievement is falling below grade level
  • Conduct a staffing with a support team member, guidance counselor, general ed teachers, building administrator, related services to discuss accommodations, strategies
  • A high school senior who has been working towards a diploma for four years cannot be changed to certificate at the end of the school year to allow the student to participate in graduation ceremonies.

The way I read it you should have been well informed before he could have been placed on the non diploma track and doing it at the kindergarten level would be extremely rare.

He's not in South Bend Community Schools (thank God) his home district is New Prairie United School district but he was sent to LaPorte Community School Corporation.

It wasn't verbally discussed with us although we did defer to the schools recommendations for the most part.

They told us that they would try to transition him into mainstream classes but that never actually happened, he always wasn't ready in their eyes.
 

swagsurfer02

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Is “religion” considered a form of autism? I feel compassion for your situation. DemNd more from your local school district! However, I am not in favor of making exceptions to public tax monies going to private schools. It is just another “ slippery slope”...Best of luck.


deadpool-what-in-the.gif
 

gohawks50

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He's not in South Bend Community Schools (thank God) his home district is New Prairie United School district but he was sent to LaPorte Community School Corporation.

It wasn't verbally discussed with us although we did defer to the schools recommendations for the most part.

They told us that they would try to transition him into mainstream classes but that never actually happened, he always wasn't ready in their eyes.
@stout1 are there not requirements in the Indiana law that parents be informed and agree to the diploma track for their children? I just can't believe it would be legal to make that decision especially at the kindergarten level without the consent of parents.
 

stout1

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@stout1 are there not requirements in the Indiana law that parents be informed and agree to the diploma track for their children? I just can't believe it would be legal to make that decision especially at the kindergarten level without the consent of parents.
Yes. Not my area of expertise, but I could walk down the hall and find someone to give me the details.

I checked with my wife who has taught Spec Ed Preschool for 25ish years and she said that it is exceedingly rare in the 2 districts she has worked in. She could only think of a very small handful of times when a kid that young was out on a non-diploma track and never for behavioral issues. For perspective, my wife is running a caseload of 25-35 IEPS at any one time.
 
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joelbc1

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you can’t always get what you want!
Are you for funding the education of children or funding the existence of an institution?
I support public school education with tax dollars. I 100% support the idea of private/parochial schools…….but not using MY dollars to support Private schools, private dollars. If you can afford it and you want it, go for it.
If you can’t afford it, I am sorry.
 

joelbc1

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you can’t always get what you want!
Problem with that argument is that the parents can use the money to send their children to any religious school they want. If there was an Islamic private school the money could and should be available for that.
Not MY tax money! My taxes go to support PUBLIC SCHOOLS, nor private/parochial schools. If I want to support a parochial/private school, I will buy a raffle ticket.
 

joelbc1

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you can’t always get what you want!
joelbc1 is wrong again. The government is not choosing any religion the parent is. The government is not subsidizing any religion it is simply using the tax money the parents, and their grandparents pay to the government to educate their children.
And my tax money supports schools where all are welcomed and “the public” has inmput into how they are run. In short….with “public schools” I have some degree of OVERSIGHT……..I have no say in what the private school/parochial school does.
 

tarheelbybirth

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Problem with that argument is that the parents can use the money to send their children to any religious school they want. If there was an Islamic private school the money could and should be available for that.
Ummm...bullshit. I'll accept that your son had a teacher who lied to you on progress reports, in face-to-face conferences, and in IEP meetings. I can't say it would never happen. I'm not sure why all the parents of her students didn't go to the administration over a teacher who is obviously unqualified to be in the classroom but I'll let that slide as well.

Using tax dollars to send children to private, religious schools is a non-starter but I suspect that's where your actual target lies. It kind of makes me a bit suspicious of everything else you've claimed.